UO

Rocknroll64 · March 2014

IBackBevo said:

Rocknroll64 said:

Also this is more of a vent than a UO but is it that hard for a doctor to be on time? Is it just they think we all have nothing better to do than sit in their stupid waiting room for 30-45mins. I can't imagine scheduling a client meeting and making the client wait there for that long. I find it extremely unprofessional and frankly, annoying as hell. If you're constantly running late then maybe it's time to rethink how much time you've allocated to appointment slots. Punctuality should be taught in medical school. It's just fucking common courtesy!

It is actually a lot harder than you think. All it takes is one emergency or one patient or one phone call to take longer than they should. Even one patient needing to be admitted to the hospital can push you back 30+ minutes. And OB's notoriously have these situations come up..and frequently. Or they may have an emergency c-section. Or maybe they are working a patient in with an emergency... When I had severe pre-e and IUGR, I got worked in on many occasions.

Plus, sometimes you can blame other patients not showing up on time for causing them to run late. It is almost comical the number of patients my DH regularly has that stroll in an hour late or more for their appointment. And, believe it or not, these people expect to be seen...sometimes he can work them in and sometimes he can't.

Now I do agree that they should give you an opportunity to reschedule if they are running really behind - i.e. an hour or more. I had to sit in my pedi's office last week for 2+ hours and was told at the outset that it would only be a 15 minute wait. But 30 minutes? Come on. I regularly wait that long (or longer) at a restaurant for a table on a Friday night.

Also, believe it or not, but with the very low rates of reimbursement by insurance companies, doctors can not afford to only schedule 2 patients an hour or put extra padding in every hour or every couple of hours because then they basically won't be making a living. Plus, they also have to account for "no shows." You would be shocked at how many people just don't show up for appointments with no call to cancel or anything.

These are all things that doctors have to balance and it isn't as easy as you would think. You may be balancing a few appointments a day, but they are balancing 30-50 along with deliveries, surgeries, emergencies, RX refills and 100-200 phone calls or more a day of people calling in and needing things...and, of course, every person thinks their medical situation is of the utmost importance and dire. I honestly am shocked that they don't run even further behind most of the time...

I totally understand that doctors have to deal with unexpected situations but why is it every frickin time? Honestly I swear, I've never gone to my appointment and been seen on time ever. And then if you get there a little bit late one time, they give you the serious side eye like you are wasting their time. Are you kidding me?

pistolpackinmomma · March 2014

Rocknroll64 said:

pistolpackinmomma said:

Rocknroll64 said:
I dislike ultrasounds. Yes I know you get to see the baby but I find the ultrasound technicians very cold and distant and they can't tell you anything so you have to wait for a call from your doctor and who knows when that will be. Every time I've had to get one I get extremely nervous and anxious. I might have to get another one in a couple weeks and I don't want to.

Also this is more of a vent than a UO but is it that hard for a doctor to be on time? Is it just they think we all have nothing better to do than sit in their stupid waiting room for 30-45mins. I can't imagine scheduling a client meeting and making the client wait there for that long. I find it extremely unprofessional and frankly, annoying as hell. If you're constantly running late then maybe it's time to rethink how much time you've allocated to appointment slots. Punctuality should be taught in medical school. It's just fucking common courtesy!
I think that's going to depend on the practice you see. My sonographer will answer basic questions as I ask and my dr comes in immediately after the u/a to talk to me about it. When I had to see a MFM at a big university hospital they did the same.

Ahh that's awesome. Are you in the US? Maybe it's different in Canada but my doctor's office is separate from the ultrasound clinic. I can only get an ultrasound done at the hospital or at the ultrasound and X-ray clinic. Then they send the pics to my doc and it feels like it takes them forever to look at them. Also the techs say absolutely nothing to me. If I ask a question they answer, "I'm not allowed to tell you anything."

I am in the US. It's also going to depend in if you have a tech or an actual sonographer and what the dr/hospital's policy is. My dr happens to have a flat screen on the wall that we can watch the entire time. The other practice in town does the entire ultrasound in silence then they will allow your spouse/whoever back as they play it back for you and explain things. I hate that they don't even let anyone in the room with you during the actual scan itself. One of many reasons I chose my dr.

Rocknroll64 · March 2014

pandadair said:

Rocknroll64 said:

pistolpackinmomma said:

I dislike ultrasounds. Yes I know you get to see the baby but I find the ultrasound technicians very cold and distant and they can't tell you anything so you have to wait for a call from your doctor and who knows when that will be. Every time I've had to get one I get extremely nervous and anxious. I might have to get another one in a couple weeks and I don't want to.

Also this is more of a vent than a UO but is it that hard for a doctor to be on time? Is it just they think we all have nothing better to do than sit in their stupid waiting room for 30-45mins. I can't imagine scheduling a client meeting and making the client wait there for that long. I find it extremely unprofessional and frankly, annoying as hell. If you're constantly running late then maybe it's time to rethink how much time you've allocated to appointment slots. Punctuality should be taught in medical school. It's just fucking common courtesy!
I think that's going to depend on the practice you see. My sonographer will answer basic questions as I ask and my dr comes in immediately after the u/a to talk to me about it. When I had to see a MFM at a big university hospital they did the same.

Ahh that's awesome. Are you in the US? Maybe it's different in Canada but my doctor's office is separate from the ultrasound clinic. I can only get an ultrasound done at the hospital or at the ultrasound and X-ray clinic. Then they send the pics to my doc and it feels like it takes them forever to look at them. Also the techs say absolutely nothing to me. If I ask a question they answer, "I'm not allowed to tell you anything."

I don't think that part is uncommon. They're not diagnosticians.

I'm not asking for a diagnosis. It's just super awkward and quiet and you can cut the tension with a knife.

Also with my first pregnancy, the technician looked at the screen for a while then told me I can get dressed, not saying anything. I'm like "soooo what's going on?" And she says "It looks like things aren't progressing but you'll have to talk to your doctor." Really nice.

pandadair · March 2014

Rocknroll64 said:

pandadair said:

Rocknroll64 said:

pistolpackinmomma said:

I dislike ultrasounds. Yes I know you get to see the baby but I find the ultrasound technicians very cold and distant and they can't tell you anything so you have to wait for a call from your doctor and who knows when that will be. Every time I've had to get one I get extremely nervous and anxious. I might have to get another one in a couple weeks and I don't want to.

Also this is more of a vent than a UO but is it that hard for a doctor to be on time? Is it just they think we all have nothing better to do than sit in their stupid waiting room for 30-45mins. I can't imagine scheduling a client meeting and making the client wait there for that long. I find it extremely unprofessional and frankly, annoying as hell. If you're constantly running late then maybe it's time to rethink how much time you've allocated to appointment slots. Punctuality should be taught in medical school. It's just fucking common courtesy!
I think that's going to depend on the practice you see. My sonographer will answer basic questions as I ask and my dr comes in immediately after the u/a to talk to me about it. When I had to see a MFM at a big university hospital they did the same.

Ahh that's awesome. Are you in the US? Maybe it's different in Canada but my doctor's office is separate from the ultrasound clinic. I can only get an ultrasound done at the hospital or at the ultrasound and X-ray clinic. Then they send the pics to my doc and it feels like it takes them forever to look at them. Also the techs say absolutely nothing to me. If I ask a question they answer, "I'm not allowed to tell you anything."

I don't think that part is uncommon. They're not diagnosticians.

I'm not asking for a diagnosis. It's just super awkward and quiet and you can cut the tension with a knife.

Also with my first pregnancy, the technician looked at the screen for a while then told me I can get dressed, not saying anything. I'm like "soooo what's going on?" And she says "It looks like things aren't progressing but you'll have to talk to your doctor." Really nice.

I probably should've used a different word than diagnostician. But I don't think it's uncommon for them to not be allowed to make any "medical observation", as it were. The last one I went to said I'd have to ask the doctor if baby was finally head down.

Rocknroll64 · March 2014

pandadair said:

Rocknroll64 said:

pandadair said:

Rocknroll64 said:

pistolpackinmomma said:

I dislike ultrasounds. Yes I know you get to see the baby but I find the ultrasound technicians very cold and distant and they can't tell you anything so you have to wait for a call from your doctor and who knows when that will be. Every time I've had to get one I get extremely nervous and anxious. I might have to get another one in a couple weeks and I don't want to.

Also this is more of a vent than a UO but is it that hard for a doctor to be on time? Is it just they think we all have nothing better to do than sit in their stupid waiting room for 30-45mins. I can't imagine scheduling a client meeting and making the client wait there for that long. I find it extremely unprofessional and frankly, annoying as hell. If you're constantly running late then maybe it's time to rethink how much time you've allocated to appointment slots. Punctuality should be taught in medical school. It's just fucking common courtesy!
I think that's going to depend on the practice you see. My sonographer will answer basic questions as I ask and my dr comes in immediately after the u/a to talk to me about it. When I had to see a MFM at a big university hospital they did the same.

Ahh that's awesome. Are you in the US? Maybe it's different in Canada but my doctor's office is separate from the ultrasound clinic. I can only get an ultrasound done at the hospital or at the ultrasound and X-ray clinic. Then they send the pics to my doc and it feels like it takes them forever to look at them. Also the techs say absolutely nothing to me. If I ask a question they answer, "I'm not allowed to tell you anything."

I don't think that part is uncommon. They're not diagnosticians.

I'm not asking for a diagnosis. It's just super awkward and quiet and you can cut the tension with a knife.

Also with my first pregnancy, the technician looked at the screen for a while then told me I can get dressed, not saying anything. I'm like "soooo what's going on?" And she says "It looks like things aren't progressing but you'll have to talk to your doctor." Really nice.

I probably should've used a different word than diagnostician. But I don't think it's uncommon for them to not be allowed to make any "medical observation", as it were. The last one I went to said I'd have to ask the doctor if baby was finally head down.

Yah and I get that and I get the reasons why, I just don't like it and I don't like ultrasounds. I find them extremely unpleasant and nerve wracking wondering if something is wrong and not being able to know right away. I'm not really sure why you're arguing with me, I'm not arguing that they should be able to tell me anything.

pandadair · March 2014

Rocknroll64 said:

pandadair said:

Rocknroll64 said:

pandadair said:

Rocknroll64 said:

pistolpackinmomma said:

I dislike ultrasounds. Yes I know you get to see the baby but I find the ultrasound technicians very cold and distant and they can't tell you anything so you have to wait for a call from your doctor and who knows when that will be. Every time I've had to get one I get extremely nervous and anxious. I might have to get another one in a couple weeks and I don't want to.

Also this is more of a vent than a UO but is it that hard for a doctor to be on time? Is it just they think we all have nothing better to do than sit in their stupid waiting room for 30-45mins. I can't imagine scheduling a client meeting and making the client wait there for that long. I find it extremely unprofessional and frankly, annoying as hell. If you're constantly running late then maybe it's time to rethink how much time you've allocated to appointment slots. Punctuality should be taught in medical school. It's just fucking common courtesy!
I think that's going to depend on the practice you see. My sonographer will answer basic questions as I ask and my dr comes in immediately after the u/a to talk to me about it. When I had to see a MFM at a big university hospital they did the same.

Ahh that's awesome. Are you in the US? Maybe it's different in Canada but my doctor's office is separate from the ultrasound clinic. I can only get an ultrasound done at the hospital or at the ultrasound and X-ray clinic. Then they send the pics to my doc and it feels like it takes them forever to look at them. Also the techs say absolutely nothing to me. If I ask a question they answer, "I'm not allowed to tell you anything."

I don't think that part is uncommon. They're not diagnosticians.

I'm not asking for a diagnosis. It's just super awkward and quiet and you can cut the tension with a knife.

Also with my first pregnancy, the technician looked at the screen for a while then told me I can get dressed, not saying anything. I'm like "soooo what's going on?" And she says "It looks like things aren't progressing but you'll have to talk to your doctor." Really nice.

I probably should've used a different word than diagnostician. But I don't think it's uncommon for them to not be allowed to make any "medical observation", as it were. The last one I went to said I'd have to ask the doctor if baby was finally head down.

Yah and I get that and I get the reasons why, I just don't like it and I don't like ultrasounds. I find them extremely unpleasant and nerve wracking wondering if something is wrong and not being able to know right away. I'm not really sure why you're arguing with me, I'm not arguing that they should be able to tell me anything.

Not trying to argue? Text miscommunication? In the earlier post, one of the reasons you expressed for not liking them was if you ask a question, they say they can't tell you anything. You also wondered on someone else's response if it was different 'cuz they're in the US. I'm just saying that particular part happens to me all the time, even for something I'd think is innocuous like what direction baby is facing. *shrug* I get the tension with them not saying anything, though. I get irrationally nervous before ultrasounds and I don't know why.

Rocknroll64 · March 2014

pandadair said:

Rocknroll64 said:

pandadair said:

Rocknroll64 said:

pandadair said:

Rocknroll64 said:

pistolpackinmomma said:

I dislike ultrasounds. Yes I know you get to see the baby but I find the ultrasound technicians very cold and distant and they can't tell you anything so you have to wait for a call from your doctor and who knows when that will be. Every time I've had to get one I get extremely nervous and anxious. I might have to get another one in a couple weeks and I don't want to.

Also this is more of a vent than a UO but is it that hard for a doctor to be on time? Is it just they think we all have nothing better to do than sit in their stupid waiting room for 30-45mins. I can't imagine scheduling a client meeting and making the client wait there for that long. I find it extremely unprofessional and frankly, annoying as hell. If you're constantly running late then maybe it's time to rethink how much time you've allocated to appointment slots. Punctuality should be taught in medical school. It's just fucking common courtesy!
I think that's going to depend on the practice you see. My sonographer will answer basic questions as I ask and my dr comes in immediately after the u/a to talk to me about it. When I had to see a MFM at a big university hospital they did the same.

Ahh that's awesome. Are you in the US? Maybe it's different in Canada but my doctor's office is separate from the ultrasound clinic. I can only get an ultrasound done at the hospital or at the ultrasound and X-ray clinic. Then they send the pics to my doc and it feels like it takes them forever to look at them. Also the techs say absolutely nothing to me. If I ask a question they answer, "I'm not allowed to tell you anything."

I don't think that part is uncommon. They're not diagnosticians.

I'm not asking for a diagnosis. It's just super awkward and quiet and you can cut the tension with a knife.

Also with my first pregnancy, the technician looked at the screen for a while then told me I can get dressed, not saying anything. I'm like "soooo what's going on?" And she says "It looks like things aren't progressing but you'll have to talk to your doctor." Really nice.

I probably should've used a different word than diagnostician. But I don't think it's uncommon for them to not be allowed to make any "medical observation", as it were. The last one I went to said I'd have to ask the doctor if baby was finally head down.

Yah and I get that and I get the reasons why, I just don't like it and I don't like ultrasounds. I find them extremely unpleasant and nerve wracking wondering if something is wrong and not being able to know right away. I'm not really sure why you're arguing with me, I'm not arguing that they should be able to tell me anything.

Not trying to argue? Text miscommunication? In the earlier post, one of the reasons you expressed for not liking them was if you ask a question, they say they can't tell you anything. You also wondered on someone else's response if it was different 'cuz they're in the US. I'm just saying that particular part happens to me all the time, even for something I'd think is innocuous like what direction baby is facing. *shrug* I get the tension with them not saying anything, though. I get irrationally nervous before ultrasounds and I don't know why.

Ummm ya, that is one of the reasons I don't like them but when did I say that I think they should be able to tell me anything? Also, I wondered if it was different in the States in regards to their doctor being in the same office as the ultrasound technician. Where I'm from, they're completely separate clinics. So I was curious if that was a US thing. That had nothing to do with the technicians being able to give out info. I think you misunderstood me.

Tkhixen · March 2014

I'm not gonna quote all the Hobby Lobby quotes, but I wanted to clear something up. One if my close friends works for them. She is a huge craft geek (I am not!). Anyway, their issue is not with all birth control. They have said that. They are talking about having to pay for women who choose to terminate a pregnancy. They don't want to pay for that. They aren't saying they are going to fire women who do this. To a Christian, that is not birth control and they just don't want that included. I mean, my health insurance (state employee) is grandfathered, so I get no free breast pump. How is that ok? There are always going to be things that people don't agree with when the government is involved! It's never gonna be peace and harmony. But really, it is a publicly Christian company... What did people think they were gonna do! Apparently it's not hurting them too bad, cause they just built a brand new store right down the road from me.

pandadair · March 2014

Tkhixen said:

I'm not gonna quote all the Hobby Lobby quotes, but I wanted to clear something up. One if my close friends works for them. She is a huge craft geek (I am not!). Anyway, their issue is not with all birth control. They have said that. They are talking about having to pay for women who choose to terminate a pregnancy. They don't want to pay for that. They aren't saying they are going to fire women who do this. To a Christian, that is not birth control and they just don't want that included. I mean, my health insurance (state employee) is grandfathered, so I get no free breast pump. How is that ok? There are always going to be things that people don't agree with when the government is involved! It's never gonna be peace and harmony. But really, it is a publicly Christian company... What did people think they were gonna do! Apparently it's not hurting them too bad, cause they just built a brand new store right down the road from me.

Their issue is with birth control. They are making the argument that their beliefs say anything that prevents the implantation of a fertilized egg (which some BC technically will) is akin to terminating a pregnancy.

ETA: Saying their issue is with paying for women who choose to terminate a pregnancy is ridiculous. That's trying to make it sound like the government is forcing them to cover abortions. Which they clearly are not. No insurance is required to provide that coverage. Also, I don't think the grandfathering in of your plan is OK. But that situation doesn't make this one acceptable, either.

IBackBevo · March 2014

Rocknroll64 said:

IBackBevo said:

Rocknroll64 said:

Also this is more of a vent than a UO but is it that hard for a doctor to be on time? Is it just they think we all have nothing better to do than sit in their stupid waiting room for 30-45mins. I can't imagine scheduling a client meeting and making the client wait there for that long. I find it extremely unprofessional and frankly, annoying as hell. If you're constantly running late then maybe it's time to rethink how much time you've allocated to appointment slots. Punctuality should be taught in medical school. It's just fucking common courtesy!

It is actually a lot harder than you think. All it takes is one emergency or one patient or one phone call to take longer than they should. Even one patient needing to be admitted to the hospital can push you back 30+ minutes. And OB's notoriously have these situations come up..and frequently. Or they may have an emergency c-section. Or maybe they are working a patient in with an emergency... When I had severe pre-e and IUGR, I got worked in on many occasions.

Plus, sometimes you can blame other patients not showing up on time for causing them to run late. It is almost comical the number of patients my DH regularly has that stroll in an hour late or more for their appointment. And, believe it or not, these people expect to be seen...sometimes he can work them in and sometimes he can't.

Now I do agree that they should give you an opportunity to reschedule if they are running really behind - i.e. an hour or more. I had to sit in my pedi's office last week for 2+ hours and was told at the outset that it would only be a 15 minute wait. But 30 minutes? Come on. I regularly wait that long (or longer) at a restaurant for a table on a Friday night.

Also, believe it or not, but with the very low rates of reimbursement by insurance companies, doctors can not afford to only schedule 2 patients an hour or put extra padding in every hour or every couple of hours because then they basically won't be making a living. Plus, they also have to account for "no shows." You would be shocked at how many people just don't show up for appointments with no call to cancel or anything.

These are all things that doctors have to balance and it isn't as easy as you would think. You may be balancing a few appointments a day, but they are balancing 30-50 along with deliveries, surgeries, emergencies, RX refills and 100-200 phone calls or more a day of people calling in and needing things...and, of course, every person thinks their medical situation is of the utmost importance and dire. I honestly am shocked that they don't run even further behind most of the time...

I totally understand that doctors have to deal with unexpected situations but why is it every frickin time? Honestly I swear, I've never gone to my appointment and been seen on time ever. And then if you get there a little bit late one time, they give you the serious side eye like you are wasting their time. Are you kidding me?

Because one day it may be someone go into labor. The next an emergency c-section. The next it may be that they had to work a patient in that day who called up with BP of 160/110. Or maybe the hospital called with labs for another patient with HELLP or something else and they had to spend the time on the phone with them. Or any other myriad of the one million things that could possibly come up.

And if they are a good doctor who is in demand and have a full schedule, rescheduling you in a timely manner may not be all that easy either. I know for my husband, he is currently booked solid a month out. And sometimes he does have people call in to his clinic in true crisis and he has to work them in and delay patients because, well, that is sort of what being a doctor is about. Sometimes the people who are of less urgent concern get pushed back so they can help someone who has a more pressing problem.

By way of another example re the scheduling, I recently had to get my son in to see a pediatric ENT. I lived in the 4th largest city in the US with the largest medical center in the world. The earliest I could get in to see anyone was 6 weeks out. Some had a 3-4 month wait. Rescheduling someone with that kind of wait would be ridiculous.

I can completely see your point if the doctor is running an hour or two (or three) late. I've had that happen and it does suck. But 30 minutes? I don't think your expectations are reasonable. If I see a doctor within 30 minutes of my appointment time, I count myself lucky. I agree that it is thoughtless to leave you sitting there for hours on end with no explanation, but expecting a doctor's office to run like a fast food drive-through isn't reasonable either.

LoveIsAll25 · March 2014

kitchencolors said:
Gawd, I bet some of these lazy ass SAHMs take their sugar daddies to dr. appointments too.

Guilty.

LoveIsAll25 · March 2014

awc1986 said:
I think Adele is overrated. Her music is mediocre and her voice is borderline annoying. The way she sings "eeee" and "ooooh" go right through me.

%-(

CamrynnsMommy · March 2014

Tkhixen said:
I'm not gonna quote all the Hobby Lobby quotes, but I wanted to clear something up. One if my close friends works for them. She is a huge craft geek (I am not!). Anyway, their issue is not with all birth control. They have said that. They are talking about having to pay for women who choose to terminate a pregnancy. They don't want to pay for that. They aren't saying they are going to fire women who do this. To a Christian, that is not birth control and they just don't want that included. I mean, my health insurance (state employee) is grandfathered, so I get no free breast pump. How is that ok? There are always going to be things that people don't agree with when the government is involved! It's never gonna be peace and harmony. But really, it is a publicly Christian company... What did people think they were gonna do! Apparently it's not hurting them too bad, cause they just built a brand new store right down the road from me.

But why do they get to choose whether or not they'll cover termination? People do not only terminate pregnancies because they are unwanted, people terminate for medical reasons.

Not specifically Hobby Lobby, but there are companies who do not cover birth control because they are a Catholic institution and it is against their religion. However, just because you are a Catholic institution, does not mean all your employees are. If you cannot not hire someone because of their religious beliefs, then why can you discriminate against them by not covering their BC.

mileswithmyles · March 2014

RE: Ultrasouonds

All of mine have been done by my doctor. Is that unusual? Maybe it depends on insurance?

Lisababy14 · March 2014

SweetTea420 said:
I hate bumper stickers on cars. The ones that bother me the most are the ones that include you child's name. That is just asking for trouble for strangers to know your kid's name. Also the ones for runners that say 26.2 or 13.1, pretty sure nobody on the road cares how long you can run for. And I'll be damned if a company is getting free advertisement on my car whether it be a dealership or some brand name. Everyone in Florida either has a Salt Life or Browning deer logo on their car.

I agree with this. I even take off the thing that goes around the license plate that dealerships put on. I'm a meanie and make the sales guy take it off before I leave the lot.

cbrust · March 2014

Tkhixen said:

I'm not gonna quote all the Hobby Lobby quotes, but I wanted to clear something up. One if my close friends works for them. She is a huge craft geek (I am not!). Anyway, their issue is not with all birth control. They have said that. They are talking about having to pay for women who choose to terminate a pregnancy. They don't want to pay for that. They aren't saying they are going to fire women who do this. To a Christian, that is not birth control and they just don't want that included. I mean, my health insurance (state employee) is grandfathered, so I get no free breast pump. How is that ok? There are always going to be things that people don't agree with when the government is involved! It's never gonna be peace and harmony. But really, it is a publicly Christian company... What did people think they were gonna do! Apparently it's not hurting them too bad, cause they just built a brand new store right down the road from me.

so really, it's a battle of does the morning after pill = abortion?

pandadair · March 2014

hcorcoran said:

RE: Ultrasouonds

All of mine have been done by my doctor. Is that unusual? Maybe it depends on insurance?

Sounds like it. I don't know of anyone that has them done by their doctor, actually. Waiting for the damn ultrasounds always takes longer for me than waiting for my doctor appointment. Probably because fetuses are also not known to cooperate with strictly scheduled appointments.

IBackBevo · March 2014

CamrynnsMommy said:

I'm not gonna quote all the Hobby Lobby quotes, but I wanted to clear something up. One if my close friends works for them. She is a huge craft geek (I am not!). Anyway, their issue is not with all birth control. They have said that. They are talking about having to pay for women who choose to terminate a pregnancy. They don't want to pay for that. They aren't saying they are going to fire women who do this. To a Christian, that is not birth control and they just don't want that included. I mean, my health insurance (state employee) is grandfathered, so I get no free breast pump. How is that ok? There are always going to be things that people don't agree with when the government is involved! It's never gonna be peace and harmony. But really, it is a publicly Christian company... What did people think they were gonna do! Apparently it's not hurting them too bad, cause they just built a brand new store right down the road from me.
But why do they get to choose whether or not they'll cover termination? People do not only terminate pregnancies because they are unwanted, people terminate for medical reasons. Not specifically Hobby Lobby, but there are companies who do not cover birth control because they are a Catholic institution and it is against their religion. However, just because you are a Catholic institution, does not mean all your employees are. If you cannot not hire someone because of their religious beliefs, then why can you discriminate against them by not covering their BC.

The bolded times 1,000!!!

pandadair · March 2014

cbrust said:

Tkhixen said:

I'm not gonna quote all the Hobby Lobby quotes, but I wanted to clear something up. One if my close friends works for them. She is a huge craft geek (I am not!). Anyway, their issue is not with all birth control. They have said that. They are talking about having to pay for women who choose to terminate a pregnancy. They don't want to pay for that. They aren't saying they are going to fire women who do this. To a Christian, that is not birth control and they just don't want that included. I mean, my health insurance (state employee) is grandfathered, so I get no free breast pump. How is that ok? There are always going to be things that people don't agree with when the government is involved! It's never gonna be peace and harmony. But really, it is a publicly Christian company... What did people think they were gonna do! Apparently it's not hurting them too bad, cause they just built a brand new store right down the road from me.

so really, it's a battle of does the morning after pill = abortion?

Which would still be a moot point, because the morning after pill is OTC.

ETA: AND it uses the same mechanism as many BCPs. If you* think that Plan B is abortion, then, yes, by extension, so are many BCPs. This whole "prevention of implantation" thing is also something one's own body does all the time. One's disgusting, whorish, un-Christian, murdering body.

*General you. Not you-you.

whimsy515 · March 2014

Tkhixen said:

I'm not gonna quote all the Hobby Lobby quotes, but I wanted to clear something up. One if my close friends works for them. She is a huge craft geek (I am not!). Anyway, their issue is not with all birth control. They have said that. They are talking about having to pay for women who choose to terminate a pregnancy. They don't want to pay for that. They aren't saying they are going to fire women who do this. To a Christian, that is not birth control and they just don't want that included. I mean, my health insurance (state employee) is grandfathered, so I get no free breast pump. How is that ok? There are always going to be things that people don't agree with when the government is involved! It's never gonna be peace and harmony. But really, it is a publicly Christian company... What did people think they were gonna do! Apparently it's not hurting them too bad, cause they just built a brand new store right down the road from me.

I was just discussing this with people. Here's what one of the judges needs to say to Hobby Lobby. "You pay your employees, right?".... "Let's say an employee uses the money you gave them to buy the Plan B Pill. You still paid for it. Or is it that you don't want to know about it?"

I personally think birth control and the like should be covered no matter what. But if you're paying your employees, they can still use that money how they see fit. If your employee needs the Plan B Pill or an abortion, who the hell is paying for it? That paycheck you gave them! I think it's a stupid argument, but then again I'm an atheist and have been called the devil sooooo.......

Rocknroll64 · March 2014

IBackBevo said:

Rocknroll64 said:

IBackBevo said:

Rocknroll64 said:

Also this is more of a vent than a UO but is it that hard for a doctor to be on time? Is it just they think we all have nothing better to do than sit in their stupid waiting room for 30-45mins. I can't imagine scheduling a client meeting and making the client wait there for that long. I find it extremely unprofessional and frankly, annoying as hell. If you're constantly running late then maybe it's time to rethink how much time you've allocated to appointment slots. Punctuality should be taught in medical school. It's just fucking common courtesy!

It is actually a lot harder than you think. All it takes is one emergency or one patient or one phone call to take longer than they should. Even one patient needing to be admitted to the hospital can push you back 30+ minutes. And OB's notoriously have these situations come up..and frequently. Or they may have an emergency c-section. Or maybe they are working a patient in with an emergency... When I had severe pre-e and IUGR, I got worked in on many occasions.

Plus, sometimes you can blame other patients not showing up on time for causing them to run late. It is almost comical the number of patients my DH regularly has that stroll in an hour late or more for their appointment. And, believe it or not, these people expect to be seen...sometimes he can work them in and sometimes he can't.

Now I do agree that they should give you an opportunity to reschedule if they are running really behind - i.e. an hour or more. I had to sit in my pedi's office last week for 2+ hours and was told at the outset that it would only be a 15 minute wait. But 30 minutes? Come on. I regularly wait that long (or longer) at a restaurant for a table on a Friday night.

Also, believe it or not, but with the very low rates of reimbursement by insurance companies, doctors can not afford to only schedule 2 patients an hour or put extra padding in every hour or every couple of hours because then they basically won't be making a living. Plus, they also have to account for "no shows." You would be shocked at how many people just don't show up for appointments with no call to cancel or anything.

These are all things that doctors have to balance and it isn't as easy as you would think. You may be balancing a few appointments a day, but they are balancing 30-50 along with deliveries, surgeries, emergencies, RX refills and 100-200 phone calls or more a day of people calling in and needing things...and, of course, every person thinks their medical situation is of the utmost importance and dire. I honestly am shocked that they don't run even further behind most of the time...

I totally understand that doctors have to deal with unexpected situations but why is it every frickin time? Honestly I swear, I've never gone to my appointment and been seen on time ever. And then if you get there a little bit late one time, they give you the serious side eye like you are wasting their time. Are you kidding me?

Because one day it may be someone go into labor. The next an emergency c-section. The next it may be that they had to work a patient in that day who called up with BP of 160/110. Or maybe the hospital called with labs for another patient with HELLP or something else and they had to spend the time on the phone with them. Or any other myriad of the one million things that could possibly come up.

And if they are a good doctor who is in demand and have a full schedule, rescheduling you in a timely manner may not be all that easy either. I know for my husband, he is currently booked solid a month out. And sometimes he does have people call in to his clinic in true crisis and he has to work them in and delay patients because, well, that is sort of what being a doctor is about. Sometimes the people who are of less urgent concern get pushed back so they can help someone who has a more pressing problem. By way of another example, I recently had to get my son in to see a pediatric ENT. I lived in the 4th largest city in the US with the largest medical center in the world. The earliest I could get in to see anyone was 6 weeks out. Some had a 3-4 month wait.

I can completely see your point if the doctor is running an hour or two (or three) late. I've had that happen. But 30 minutes? I don't think your expectations are reasonable. If I see a doctor within 30 minutes of my appointment time, I count myself lucky. Expecting a doctor's office to run like a fast food drive-through isn't reasonable.

Fair enough, 30 minutes isn't usually that bad. It's just this time of year when I'm extremely busy at work and scrambling to leave the office to get to my appointment on time and sitting there waiting well past my appointment time that gets me really frustrated. I can't help it.

cbrust · March 2014

kitchencolors said: Re: Hobby Lobby.

They're clearly trying to get a corporate citizen treatment for religious freedom. This is yet another one of those conservative viewpoints that I can't understand (not saying all conservatives believe this, but it's a mainstream conservative interpretation). So the first amendment should be broadly interpreted to apply to companies as well as people, but the second amendment should be literally interpreted to mean that we all need guns. It feels inconsistent to me. I'm not super principled in my spending, but I can say I will never set foot in a Hobby Lobby.

_____sorry, quote fail!
I agree with you on all aspects except that I don't think need is the term I would use, more like we all have the right to have guns. BUT, I don't want to start a gun debate so take my comments as a grain of salt!

LoveIsAll25 · March 2014

All kids should learn how to cook and clean. By the time I was 10 I was cooking and cleaning. Did I hate it back then, yes! But now, as an adult, I am so grateful I know how to take care of my myself and family.

I just had an argument about this with a few friends who tell me it is not a child's duty to cook and clean, its the parents responsibilities, and if they EVER asks her kids to chores she would pay them.

pandadair · March 2014

LoveIsAll25 said:

All kids should learn how to cook and clean. By the time I was 10 I was cooking and cleaning. Did I hate it back then, yes! But now, as an adult, I am so grateful I know how to take care of my myself and family. I just had an argument about this with a few friends who tell me it is not a child's duty to cook and clean, its the parents responsibilities, and if they EVER asks her kids to chores she would pay them.

My mom's strategy was to take advantage of their "wanting to help mom/do what she does" stage when they're really young. Like "why don't you take this cloth and wipe the baseboards behind mommy while she meanders along and spritzes them with some water". I know your point is about responsibility, but it can also be about taking advantage of your kids when they're gullible.

jenb_99 · March 2014

I make a point of not watching thought-provoking, emotional movies, books, or TV shows. Life is thought provoking and emotional enough as it is; I'm not going to intentionally seek out more tears, stress, etc. in my entertainment, no matter how poignant and life enriching the stories claim to be. This especially applies to political and memorial pieces. For example, I don't need to watch every 9/11 movie to be reminded of the horror of that day; I remember it well enough as it is, and I prefer my own memories to sensationalized accounts.

spacepotatoes · March 2014

LoveIsAll25 said:

All kids should learn how to cook and clean. By the time I was 10 I was cooking and cleaning. Did I hate it back then, yes! But now, as an adult, I am so grateful I know how to take care of my myself and family. I just had an argument about this with a few friends who tell me it is not a child's duty to cook and clean, its the parents responsibilities, and if they EVER asks her kids to chores she would pay them.

I totally agree that it's good for kids to learn some basic life skills. When I was growing up, it wasn't a matter of being "asked" to do chores, it was more of an expectation that as part of the family, I help. This was the norm at my friends' houses too.

My parents did start paying me for some chores when I got old enough, like the dishes and ironing. But it was to teach me the value of money and how to manage it, not to thank me for my services.

lavendergiraffes · March 2014

My UO: I hate quotes inside of quotes inside of quotes. Too much scrolling.
It's like a quote inception!

CamrynnsMommy · March 2014

LoveIsAll25 said:
All kids should learn how to cook and clean. By the time I was 10 I was cooking and cleaning. Did I hate it back then, yes! But now, as an adult, I am so grateful I know how to take care of my myself and family.

I just had an argument about this with a few friends who tell me it is not a child's duty to cook and clean, its the parents responsibilities, and if they EVER asks her kids to chores she would pay them.

I was cooking and cleaning and caring for my 2-year-old brother at 10, because my mom would've rather party it up. I also don't think that just because you weren't responsible for cooking and cleaning by a certain age means you're any less capable of doing so when you're older.

I don't think kids need to learn how to cook and clean by a certain age, I think children need to understand that they're responsible for picking up their objects and assisting with household chores. In my household, we clean together every Saturday, the children are responsible for cleaning their areas and if they want to sweep/mop, help in other areas they are welcome to, but it's not mandatory. My children are also allowed to assist in cooking dinner, but I will never allow them to cook unsupervised at 10.

Rocknroll64 · March 2014

@awc1986 Networking and small talk are probably the worst things ever.

pistolpackinmomma · March 2014

I will never pay my children for helping keep the house clean. It will be expected of them. They help mess it up they can sure as hell help clean it. When I went to college my roommate was never responsible for any sort of cleaning. In return I ended up being the one to clean our room because I couldn't stand it. Her mom asked me to teach her to wash her laundry since there wasn't enough room in our room for the amount if clothes she would need between trips home. The mom didn't know how to do laundry because their housekeeper did it all. Not gonna happen with my kids. They will know how and be responsible for doing their own laundry when they are old enough.

JessElam · March 2014

ljbreck said:
I think a lot of charities are shams. I don't think ALL charities are but many charities spend only a small fraction of their revenue tackling the problem they say they will.

There is a site called Charitiy Navigator that actually provides info on Non-Profit orgs all over the country. You can look at their financials and see where their money is spent (admin fees, program coats, etc). They actually have a rating system which is great to use as a guide before donating to various charities and non-profits.

IBackBevo · March 2014

Let's not define the Hobby Lobby anti-birth control debate as a Christian versus non-Christian debate. I am a Christian and I have no problem with birth control or the morning after pill, etc.

And I completely agree with @Ale515's argument that an employer doesn't get to decide how an employee uses his or her paycheck so they also should not get to decide how the employee uses their health insurance.

I am sure there are some absurd employers out there who believe that employees of a certain age, race, social status, etc. shouldn't have kids. Does that mean that numb nut employer should be able to dictate that the employee doesn't get maternity coverage?

Or maybe the employer is part of the anti-vax movement. Should the employer be able to say their insurance doesn't cover routine vaccinations?

pandadair · March 2014

IBackBevo said:

Let's not define the Hobby Lobby anti-birth control debate as a Christian versus non-Christian debate. I am a Christian and I have no problem with birth control or the morning after pill, etc.
And I completely agree with @Ale515's argument that an employer doesn't get to decide how an employee uses his or her paycheck so they also should not get to decide how the employee uses their health insurance.
I am sure there are some absurd employers out there who believe that employees of a certain age, race, social status, etc. shouldn't have kids. Does that mean that numb nut employer should be able to dictate that the employee doesn't get maternity coverage?
Or maybe the employer is part of the anti-vax movement. Should the employer be able to say their insurance doesn't cover routine vaccinations?

Stated much better than I could. And I don't want to imply that it's a Christian vs. non-Christian issue. More that, to the Hobby Lobby supporters, they're having their "Christian" views trampled on, when that has nothing to do with it. Uteri know no religion.

dogsombrero · March 2014

JessElam said:

I think a lot of charities are shams. I don't think ALL charities are but many charities spend only a small fraction of their revenue tackling the problem they say they will.
There is a site called Charitiy Navigator that actually provides info on Non-Profit orgs all over the country. You can look at their financials and see where their money is spent (admin fees, program coats, etc). They actually have a rating system which is great to use as a guide before donating to various charities and non-profits.

Thanks Lady! I knew there was a site that graded charities but I didn't know what it was called.

Kaylee524 · March 2014

ljbreck said:

JessElam said:

I think a lot of charities are shams. I don't think ALL charities are but many charities spend only a small fraction of their revenue tackling the problem they say they will.
There is a site called Charitiy Navigator that actually provides info on Non-Profit orgs all over the country. You can look at their financials and see where their money is spent (admin fees, program coats, etc). They actually have a rating system which is great to use as a guide before donating to various charities and non-profits.

Thanks Lady! I knew there was a site that graded charities but I didn't know what it was called.

Just wanted to add my two cents here, as someone who works at a nonprofit. A lot of folks only look at the ratio of money spent on programs when they're deciding how efficient a nonprofit is, but you have to consider how that is calculated. For instance, I work for a food bank - we receive large food donations or shipments and then split them up to provide food to food pantries, soup kitchens, emergency shelters, etc. While we can say that the money we spend directly on acquiring food is being spent on "programming," we can't say the same for the funds that we use to pay the mortgage on our warehouse, pay the utilities to keep our lights on, or pay the HR and personnel fees required to get the food in and out safely and effectively. Still, our ratio is pretty darn good (94 cents of every dollar donated goes toward programming). But for different types of nonprofits those standards can be really hard to keep.

Edited bc spelling is hard.

Jennyinheaven · March 2014

IBackBevo said:

Jennyinheaven said:

I don't get stay at mom's with nanniesand shopping and daycare. Im not talking about right after you give birth but once you are healed and functional. I have a friend who doesn't work has two boys in full time daycare and a third in kindergarten they get picked up from school by nanny who has them most of the afternoon and they spend Friday nights thru Saturday with their grandparents. I don't understand why someone would have kids and then.be lucky enough to afford staying home but then want to spend zero time with them

Do you have three young children? If not, then you really can't possibly know how tough it can be.

Also, my son loves his little school. He gets so much out of it. His developmental skills since starting his school have shot up dramatically. He loves the other kids. He loves the activities they have. Maybe she puts them in there not because she is trying to "not spend time with them" but because it is good for them and they enjoy it. And maybe she takes them to grandparents because the grandparents like spending time with them. Maybe they are older and don't have that much time left...

And do you really know if they spend every day, all day in daycare? Or every Friday and Saturday with their grandparents? Or maybe she does put them in daycare and volunteers at the daycare on a regular basis...

My point is, that you don't know the reasons other people make the decisions they make. It really isn't your place to judge without knowing ALL of the circumstances. And even if you *think* you know, you don't.

I guess my UO is that I don't get people who judge other people's parenting choices unless they are ones that involve abuse/neglect or affect others.

Just to clarify, the grandparents are my parents best friends and they complain that the kids are dumped off on them so said mother can go out on the town snd the grandmother has early symptoms of Alzheimer's so shouldn't really be doing the care, she is also my facebook friend and is always posting about spas, workouts and shopping so I don't think, its depression or anything that doesn't allow her to care for her kids... is that the type of life she wants fine I just don't understand why she had children?

dogsombrero · March 2014

Kaylee524 That is a damn good ratio! Homeless shelters, food banks, children's homes, make-a-wish, toys for tots and things like that where there are lots of tangibles involved are amazing with what they can pull off on a shoe-string.

Honestly I can understand up to 50% going to operating costs that's a realistic amount for staffing, promotion, buildings/storage etc. A "charity" bringing in millions but only spending 2% on the actual program is insane, there are companies that are more philanthropic than that!

sisterjanet · March 2014

CamrynnsMommy said:

awc1986 said:

I'm not even going to touch the mommy wars, so my UO, I think a person covered in tattoos can look beautiful, if done right. Example of beautiful and trashy: (Left: beautiful, Right: trashy)
IMO the only thing that makes the one on the right trashy is that she's in lingerie. The tatts are pretty much the same. Personally I don't like tatts on women. That's why I don't have any. Just personal taste.

It's hard to see her tattoos, I know both of these women personally, the one in lingerie is my cousin, her tattoos are morbid and are just tasteless, IMO. The woman on the left, is my friend and hairstylist, her tattoos are classic and elegantly done.

It has nothing to do with what she is wearing, for me, I could easily find one of the girl on the left in lingerie and I still think her tattoos are beautiful.

It's not that I found one beautiful and the other trashy. Admittedly, I didn't try to really read/look super closely at either of their tattoos, but the women looked pretty much the same to me: pretty women with an astonishing number of tattoos. It might be that if I had looked more closely at the pics and words I would get it, but without going back and squinting at the pictures I don't see one as prettier (or trashier for that matter) than the other. (I did think the pose with the hair all in her face would bug the crap out of me, but that's about the only difference in my opinion.)

Jennyinheaven · March 2014

I have tattoos, most of my back is covered, I like tattoos on women when done well and artistically, I hate trashy or crappily done ones though.

ykristos · March 2014

I think people without tattoos are trashy! How bout that?!

(But really, this UO has been rehashed a handful of times on our board. Spoiler Alert: it is often concluded that people should not have so many feelings about what others do with their bodies.)

If anyone brings up welfare and drugs, I'm officially jumping ship.

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