skipping routine ultrasounds and doppler?

MissyHodgey · February 2014

Is anyone else out there skipping the routine ultrasounds (esp doppler)? As long as no problems are suspected, I do not plan on exposing my fetus or body to routine ultrasounds... well, I am considering just one at 20 weeks to confirm that all looks well and to find out the gender. But I will keep it as short as possible and make sure the technician is fully aware of the potential dangers. I plan on having the midwife use a fetoscope to hear the heartbeat at the other appointments (when possible) but other than that I plan on seeing/hearing my baby when it's time to come out. I'm mostly wondering how many others are doing the same and if you've gotten any push back from your midwife/doctor about this decision. I am 10.5 wks and still haven't had my first appt though it will be in the next few weeks.

JonandJennifer · February 2014

What you decide as far as ultrasounds, Doppler, etc. is completely up to you. I would say that one ultrasound should be OK. Ultrasound for entertainment purposes is what I'm against! We only had two and my doctor limited the fetal Doppler at my visits. I also opted for the hand held Doppler and not the monitor when I gave birth to her.

headgear03 · February 2014

I have only ever had one ultrasound with my kids ( with the exeption of my third because i was having severe pain and my fourth to check for her being breech) . My midwife doesn't like ultrasounds and only orders them when the parents ask . She also limits the doppler . She does intermediate monitoring while in labor . Shes very very hands off so i have never had to fight . I should mention she is highly against ultrasounds till the second trimester to many risks .

barnwife · February 2014

I have never had an u/s.

If we ever have another LO, I will most likely skip the doppler as well.

My MW wouldn't care. I'm guessing a good percentage of her patients don't allow the doppler. Actually, at one appt., my MW's assistant picked up the doppler to use it and questioned, "wait...are you a no doppler person?"

So I know they have patients who don't want it used.

MissyHodgey · February 2014

Great, thanks so much for these responses!!

I am so happy to have found the Natural Birth discussion

This is my first pregnancy and I am planning on a natural childbirth. I am confident in my body and mother nature to do what's right. But it is still a bit scary and I'm sure I will have other questions along the way. I am absolutely thrilled to have found like-minded people willing to share with me

Cheers!

MissyHodgey · February 2014

I completely agree, Mother Nature does not always do what is right! I choose to start off optimistically until I have reason to believe something is wrong. I understand these things do happen.

Thanks for your comment on the provider ordering an ultrasound because they feel it's necessary.... I was under the impression they do them every month or two as part of their routine, not because there was a specific reason for it. Perhaps I'm wrong. My first appt is coming up soon so I shall see how it goes.

lalaith50 · February 2014

MissyHodgey said:

I completely agree, Mother Nature does not always do what is right! I choose to start off optimistically until I have reason to believe something is wrong. I understand these things do happen.

Thanks for your comment on the provider ordering an ultrasound because they feel it's necessary.... I was under the impression they do them every month or two as part of their routine, not because there was a specific reason for it. Perhaps I'm wrong. My first appt is coming up soon so I shall see how it goes.

Different providers are different. I think you are more likely to get more u/s if you are "high risk" in any way. Mine only did one at 19 weeks, and then again at 37 weeks. (to check fluid levels and positioning, etc.) I probably could have declined the 37 week one, but I do think the anatomy scan is very important and they can see potential problems.

MissyHodgey · February 2014

I appreciate you all sharing your personal experiences! I really do enjoy hearing everyone's story.

When I say I am confident my body will do what's right - that doesn't mean it will. I am choosing to be confident because if I feared every single thing that could go wrong I could never go through with pregnancy/childbirth. If and when I run into a complication/s I will face it/them as fearless as I can and trust in my providers to guide me.

I didn't mean to sound like I am living in a world of utopia. I know I am not guaranteed an easy, natural childbirth.

MissyHodgey · February 2014

Thank you all for answering my question and for explaining when and why you had ultrasounds!

I go on my first tour of a birthing center next week and I am just so curious of what to expect.

mb314 · February 2014

Most healthy pregnancies only have 1 ultra sound at 20 weeks. I had several - 1 to date the fetus because I was actually a full month ahead of where I thought I was; one as part of genetic screening because I'm over 35 (this was a choice, not pushed on me); the 20 week anatomy scan; and one at 39 weeks to check for fetal distress because of complications that had arose.

So in my experience, I had several ultra sounds, but I they weren't for fun - they were for medical reasons and genetic testing.

sschwege · February 2014

MissyHodgey said:

I completely agree, Mother Nature does not always do what is right! I choose to start off optimistically until I have reason to believe something is wrong. I understand these things do happen.

Thanks for your comment on the provider ordering an ultrasound because they feel it's necessary.... I was under the impression they do them every month or two as part of their routine, not because there was a specific reason for it. Perhaps I'm wrong. My first appt is coming up soon so I shall see how it goes.

Some providers do get a little carried away with u/s IMO. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with u/s, but some are more necessary than others. I think most providers do 1 or 2 routinely. I would highly recommend the anatomy scan, it gives you a lot of important information regarding the baby's healthy and also problems that may come up on delivery day. So with DD I had 1 the a/s. With DS I had 2, one to check for viability (I had some spotting and was nervous) and then the a/s. I didn't have a problem with them using the doppler during routine exams, it's so quick 30 sec maybe? When in labor my hospital does 20 min continuous monitoring then uses the doppler every 15 minutes or so thereafter until you are pushing then they listen more often.

I think it's good to be cautious about anything that's newer. Yes, u/s have been around for decades, but they are used more frequently now than ever before and we really don't know the long term effects if any. Let me make it perfectly clear, if I had to put money on it I would bet they are safe, but the reality is no one can really say anything is totally safe right? So I look at them as a wonderful medical tool, but something I wouldn't just do for fun.

Aurora_Borealis · February 2014

I had two 'proper' U/S in the imaging facility at my hospital. One at 12 or so weeks with the NT testing and the second with the 20 week anatomy scan. I was 'meh' on the NT testing, but DH thought it was important. I definitely wanted the 20 week scan since I had a minor heart defect when I was born, so it seemed irresponsible to not check with my own child.

I also had quick in-office U/S at 38 weeks because my midwife could not feel the back of DD's neck where she thought it should be...so the concern was that she might have turned breech. Turns out she was just very ready to be born and was that low in my pelvis. Still, I think the 40 seconds or however long it took was definitely worth it.

My midwife checked fetal heart rate with the doppler at every visit. Given that getting one's heart rate checked at any doctor appointment is routine as an adult I would think it would be especially important to check when one's heart is developing as a fetus. But, if your provider has a fetoscope, that is certainly an option. Honestly, I never thought to be concerned about the doppler.

MissyHodgey · February 2014

It's nice to hear one ultrasound can be considered a "normal" amount by providers. I had heard of people getting one a month and then one every one or two weeks towards the end and I just couldn't wrap my head around that unless something was really wrong. I also have facebook friends posting several different sonograms and that made me wonder how many were they getting? So thanks for sharing your personal accounts! It sounds like I won't be looked at like a weirdo, especially since I will be going to a birthing center. They are probably a lot more used to the do-less approach. And thanks for not passing judgment on my choices. It means a lot.

sheislisamarie · February 2014

I've had 4 ultrasounds this pregnancy, all ordered by my midwives. We don't usually go for the dopplers unless we're unable to hear baby's heartbeat on the fetoscope. The first midwife I had (I transferred services at 11 weeks) was staunchly against excessive ultrasounds, but my new midwife team has no issue with them - but even then would never recommend getting them just cause. It's nice to not have an excessive amount ordered because even with insurance I'm paying $400-$500 out-of-pocket for each U/S. $:\$

mysticl · February 2014

My health insurance will only pay for a ultrasound if it can be justified medically. They do not pay for "routine" ones. With that being said I had 4 because I was 37 and we were screening for Downs so we could be prepared. I was also very scared of something going wrong during the pregnancy so I found the ultrasounds and doppler to be very reassuring.

nosoup4u · February 2014

I had my first u/s around 20 weeks w my first, and then I had 3 or so at the end. With my second, I had a dating u/s and then just one at 20 weeks. It's definitely possible to have a pg w very few u/s. With the exception of late term sizing u/s, most providers use them within reason.

I don't know if CNMs use fetoscopes anymore, but I wouldn't be overly worried about Doppler use at appointments.

barnwife · February 2014

sschwege said:

Let me make it perfectly clear, if I had to put money on it I would bet they are safe, but the reality is no one can really say anything is totally safe right? So I look at them as a wonderful medical tool, but something I wouldn't just do for fun.

Many people would have put money on thalidomide being safe as well. As we now know, it's not.

It's known that u/s waves do cause at least temporary changes in the cells. We know that fetuses often try to move away from the source of such changes in the womb.

That being said, I am not completely anti-u/s. As I said, I have never had one. And I will choose to limit even the doppler in future pregnancies. But I think they can be useful tools in moderation.

My MW orders a 20 week u/s if you want it/if there is an indication that it may be a good idea. She uses a fetoscope (spelling?) at every appt. She also uses doppler with patient permission.

OP, the best thing is to do your own research, including discussing things with your care provider and then make the decision that is right for you.

rboisvert · February 2014

With DD I had 4.5 u/s. The half was a quick swipe when I was kicked in the stomach my a student just to check the placenta, maybe 30 seconds total. I had a dating u/s which was good since I wasn't able to convince my OB that I was due the beginning of May not mid April since I didn't ovulate until CD32. We had our 20 week a/s and a focused level 2 Fetal Echo due to increased risk of heart defects due to mine and then an u/s with my NST at 41 weeks. I know many practices in my area are starting to do u/s instead of dopler which I think is nuts but I think it would be pretty easy to find out the philosophy of your practice. I would approach my provider in a non-confrontational way of we would prefer to use fetalscope for heart tones and aim to just have our 20 week a/s unless there are red flags that we need to delve deeper. Has a more cooperative, partnership tone to it.

hlm184 · February 2014

Some practices - usually the ones that happen to have the U/S machine in every room - will do quick U/S at almost every appointment.

My practice doesn't have or do that. They contract out for the U/S and stick to the minimum required.

Check with your doctor. As long as you aren't high risk, more than the 20 week A/S and maybe a dating or NT scan isn't necessary.

catsinawindow · February 2014

I'll reiterate what PP have said. More than 1-2 ultrasounds for a healthy PG is NOT generally the norm.

With this LO, I've had 3. One was elective (first trimester screening to check for genetic defects), one was the anatomy scan, and the third was a re-check of a few things from the anatomy scan (everything turned out to be fine).

Even though I do believe that US are completely safe, I can understand the desire to avoid unnecessary medical procedures, risky or not. That said, I think there are huge benefits to the anatomy scan and I wouldn't feel comfortable skipping it.

For instance, my cousin found out at the anatomy scan that her son had a serious congenital heart defect. Without an US she would not have found this. Based on this information, she and her doctors made the decision to have a C/S (they weren't sure that baby's heart could handle the stress of labor and delivery) and to deliver her baby at the best pediatric heart center in the area in case he needed immediate care. He is currently a happy and healthy 1 year old (after a series of several surgeries). Without that US, and the precausions they took, his outcome may not have been so good. I know this situation is the exception rather than the norm, but cases like this do happen, and having the information to make an informed decision is ALWAYS a good idea.

Also, if you do decide to do the anatomy scan, I wouldn't "make sure that the technician is fully aware of potential dangers". As far as I know, there is no scientific evidence that US is unsafe, and the tech is going to complete the scan the same way whether or not you inform her that you believe it to be dangerous. I just don't see what benefit you could get from saying this other than alienating the technician who's just trying to do his or her job.

RebeccaY1 · February 2014

I ended up having three ultrasounds because when the did the second one they found something that needed to be investigated further. I wouldn't get one just for entertainment, but I have no problem with it if it's medically necessary.

Chichigo · February 2014

I had 7 ultrasounds while pregnant, and only one was routine. 3 were ordered because of spotting and cramping, so the ultrasound checked the condition of the placenta. 2 were growth scans, to make sure my high blood pressure wasn't slowing his growth. The last was to rule out a need for induction because of continued high blood pressure.

wifeofadam · February 2014

I haven't had any u/s with my last two pregnancies. We used the doppler before my MWs were able to pick up the heartbeat on the fetoscope , but only for short periods of time - long enough to get the heart rate and that's it.

iris427 · February 2014

Nope, I completely believe in the value of ultrasound to tell us important things about maternal and fetal health. An ultrasound could reveal placenta problems that you would need to know about for delivery, or whether your baby has any health issues that will require extra care. Personally, I feel like if you are having an OOH delivery, it's especially important to have an ultrasound to rule out any high risk conditions that would risk you out of home/birth center delivery.

Ultrasound has been used for decades now and been well-studied. There is no evidence that it causes harm when used for medical indications, and FFS it is nothing like thalidomide.

Wyn · February 2014

With my 8 year old daughter, I had 1 ultrasound at 20 weeks to check anatomy. We didn't want to know the gender, so that was that. Heard the HB via Doppler at each appt. During my last pregnancy, went to see midwife just prior to 20 week US and she couldn't hear HB. Went for US and baby had died. Nothing would have changed that. Pregnant again, twins were suspected so I was encouraged to get US at 10 weeks. Wished I wad just waited until 20 weeks. Doc really frightened me about possible genetic problems, which all came back fine on Maternit21 blood test. Only planning 20 week US. I will want to hear HB at each appt with Doppler, but that's just me.

laurakaz13 · February 2014

iris427 said:

Nope, I completely believe in the value of ultrasound to tell us important things about maternal and fetal health. An ultrasound could reveal placenta problems that you would need to know about for delivery, or whether your baby has any health issues that will require extra care. Personally, I feel like if you are having an OOH delivery, it's especially important to have an ultrasound to rule out any high risk conditions that would risk you out of home/birth center delivery.

Ultrasound has been used for decades now and been well-studied. There is no evidence that it causes harm when used for medical indications, and FFS it is nothing like thalidomide.

All of this. Word for word.

linzandjer11 · February 2014

I was thinking about skipping all ultrasounds as well. We're team green, and my pregnancy has been very normal and low risk. I had heard stories of people finding something medically wrong with their baby's development at the 20 week anatomy scan that could be easily fixed immediately after the birth, or else develop into something worse. What it came down to was stress. I felt that I would be less stressed out to get a quick scan to confirm normal development, than to just hope that things were growing normally. I scheduled a scan for 24 weeks; everything ended up being normal, and the scan only took 15-20 min.

So my advice, do what ever will help you be the most calm and least stressed.

NYGirl02 · February 2014

I'm ok with the Doppler each visit. With my first, I was only supposed to have an u/s at 20 weeks. Then, they couldn't see the heart clearly enough so I had another one the next month. Then I was in a very minor car accident at 27 weeks and they checked then too. Then they did a couple at the very end because I went to a full 42 weeks. Having them do those ultrasounds at the very end was helpful because they were armed with the info they needed to determine that my placenta was in great shape and the there was no reason to induce yet.

This time, I had an early ultrasound to get a date. My dr wanted it since my periods were a little wonky. I charted and knew I ovulated a week late so I consented to the ultrasound in hopes that it would line up with my chart so they didnt go by LMP date and look at inducing a full week early. My drs are great, but don't put too much faith in charting for some reason. I felt like any risk of early u/s was less that having them induce a week early just because they thought I was overdue. So I wanted the dr to have that data. Luckily the u/s lined up exactly to my chart. (Actually gave me one extra day!)

Amores0121 · February 2014

I have had 4 U/s so far and will get my A/S today. However, this is only b/c I have had 3 losses. I had one at 6 w to confirm pregnancy, One at 8 w, and then one at almost 10 w due to severe cramping. I had the NT at 12 weeks b/c I had a previous loss due to Trisomy 18.

I am assuming this will be my last one, unless they do one before I give birth, as I am past all my loss milestones and everything appears to be fine.

I think most people only have increased u/s if they have a history of loss or are high risk.

chevronseven · February 2014

Oh my gosh I love this board so much. On the 2nd Tri board no one would have even answered OP's question, they'd have gotten in an argument to the death about sex vs gender.

I actually just saw a video at my first Bradley Method class about the possible dangers of ultrasounds and Doppler so it's interesting to see what other people think.

iris427 · February 2014

livelaughlove88 said:

Oh my gosh I love this board so much. On the 2nd Tri board no one would have even answered OP's question, they'd have gotten in an argument to the death about sex vs gender. I actually just saw a video at my first Bradley Method class about the possible dangers of ultrasounds and Doppler so it's interesting to see what other people think.

What did the video say the possible dangers were? Did it offer any evidence or just speculation?

chevronseven · February 2014

@iris427 It showed the difference in the behavior of cells that had been exposed to ultrasound radiation (really scattered and chaotic) compared to ones that hadn't (smooth and orderly). It also said there was a clear difference on pregnant rats that were tested but I can't remember what specifically...I think it was lower birth weight. There haven't been any comprehensive long term studies though, and they were saying any actual effects would most likely be genetic and show up in later generations.

MissyHodgey · February 2014

Hahaha! Yes! I asked this question (my first question ever on a forum, geez) on the first tri board, too - big mistake! Immediately I was in the lion's den! It turned so nasty I asked the moderator to delete the whole thing and she wouldn't. She just thought they were a "little rude". Calling me a "fucking idiot" was just a "little rude". And yes, they did get their panties in a wad over "sex" and "gender", hahaha. I was told, "Go deliver your baby in a barn with a witch doctor." Huh? I gotta admit, I got a good laugh out of it all. And I didn't lower myself to their level, as hard as it was not to.

I've switched to a different website that is SO much better. I still come back here every now and then because this natural childbirth forum has been nice and helpful but for the most part I stay far away from the bump.

I am really grateful for all you ladies here! Even if you don't agree with me 100% you are not needlessly abrasive and still tend to offer your best advice and personal accounts. The important thing to remember is that all of us are trying to do what we think is best with what we know. I believe that deserves some respect.

biojess · March 2014

Thanks for asking this, and thanks to those who responded. My mother has been on me to get an ultrasound as early as possible, because she's excited. I'm not anxious to have it, so I'm waiting until the midwife recommends it. Knowing that 1 or 2 is what's more typical will help me to convince her I'm not crazy for waiting.

emmojess · March 2014

Anyone have any suggestions on what to tell folks when asked why you aren't getting any US? I can't go into my reasons for alternative choices without women giving me 'the look'. Like I am accusing them of harming their child with their choice of getting an US. This is my first pregnancy and I'm learning mothers are terrifying!

Wyn · March 2014

I would just say something like, "my health care provider and I are making the right decision for me."

MissyHodgey · March 2014

You could say that your insurance only covers one ultrasound and leave it at that. You don't have to tell them you aren't even getting that one

Update:

I found a birthing center that is perfect... except they do the doppler at every appt and every 30 min during labor. I haven't really pushed back on it yet. I'm going to see if they will use a fetoscope... all or at least some of the time. They make it sound like it's "just the doppler" but from what I understand the doppler IS still an ultrasound and it uses continuous waves vs pulsing waves like the "regular" ultrasound. So it's potentially MORE harmful. They only do one "real" ultrasound at 20 weeks - which I've decided I am ok with.

My first appt is tomorrow and I just began my second trimester. So, at least I've avoided all ultrasounds during the first tri when the little baby is (potentially) most sensitive. I hope I can push back my second appt to my 20 week appt and space out the rest quite a bit, too.

This birthing center has a great reputation and a strong relationship with local hospitals so they are a tad more hands on than I like... but at the same time, this is my first pregnancy and I do like that they have things like IV fluids and oxygen in-house, if needed, and it's an easy, short transfer to the hospital, if needed. I feel like I have to choose my battles and I would rather birth at this birthing center naturally (crossing my fingers) and take the risk of a few dopplers than go to a different birthing center with less amenities or worse, a hospital.

They are working with me on an alternative gestational diabetes test, though. And they are way more hands off than the hospitals. Not to mention, the birthing rooms look like a B&B

I just hope I am making the right decision. My gut is telling me to go with this birthing center so here I go.

MissyHodgey · March 2014

You aren't crazy for waiting!

My birthing center only does one ultrasound as a standard at 20 wks (some people will do another one early on if the date is in question and some do another at the very end if there is a question regarding position or the placenta or whatever).

I haven't told anyone, not even my mom (well, husband and 3 close friends know but are sworn in secrecy), partly in fear of how they will react to all my crunchy granola natural ideas. I'm not ready for all the backlash. I am giving myself time to figure out what I want to do before I announce my pregnancy because I know people will try to change my mind about every little thing. Not to mention, I'm a bit hormonal ; )

MissyHodgey · March 2014

kitchencolors has a great point about not discussing anything that is the least bit controversial... unless you are ready for controversy.

I started eating the paleo diet over a year ago and have slowly learned it's best not to talk about my diet or nutrition/health, etc unless I am prepared for questions, backlash, teasing, etc. Merely ordering something gluten free at a restaurant would set some of my own friends off (the worse was someone that has a severe shellfish allergy, of all people!). Sigh. But I am glad I've gone through that before pregnancy because apparently this will be 1000 times worse.

Smiling and changing the subject is the best way to get out of situations like this. You don't have to explain yourself. Rarely do people actually care about learning your viewpoint. They tend to just look for more things to argue about. Now if they are genuinely interested and they really want to know, explain yourself. They may still argue or judge you but such is life, I guess.

emmojess · March 2014

Missshodgey I'm also a paleo mama! Thanks for the input ladies.

MissyHodgey · March 2014

Thank you for your polite response!

I have gay friends and family and absolutely respect and support everyone that is gay and/or transgender. However, I really don't think that using the word "gender" when talking about an ultrasound creates intolerance.

Especially since, according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, gender means sex:

Definition of GENDER

1: sex

2: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

Definition of SEX

1: either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as male or female

2: the sum of the structural, functional, and behavioral characteristics of living things that are involved in reproduction by two interacting parents and that distinguish males and females

3a : sexually motivated phenomena or behavior

b : sexual intercourse

Frankly, "gender" has more than one definition.... "sex" has more than one definition. Sex can be an awkward word to use in front of in-laws and coworkers. Especially when pregnant... people are already thinking, "you two had sex!" I'm sure many people prefer to use the word gender because it doesn't have the naughty connotation like the word sex.

While I respect those working towards tolerance for the LGBT community, I just see this as a non-issue. At least until the dictionary changes its definition.

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