Talk to me about CIO please......

JBDamonM · January 2014

UGH. Seriously. I am feeling so lost and helpless with getting LO to sleep this week. It's wearing on me.

Here is the situation - althuogh never a fantastic sleeper, she has always been decent. She got much better when she hit 8 months. We've never done sleep training, done some abreviated Ferber (until this week I had never let her go more than 10 minutes without doing 2 minutes of soothing.) She dropped her MOTN feedings on her own at 6.5 months.

Well, she got a double ear infection two weeks agao and it's been hell in a handbasket since then. We were giving her Motrin at that time, for her ears and because she's also cutitng a tooth. Stopped the Motrin Saturday night. (She was seen for a re-check on Tuesday, ears are fine.....tooth still cutting). Would up giving it to her at 3 AM Sat night because she had been up for two plus hours.

No Motrin Sunday night - and awake once an hour, quick wake ups, easily went back down. No Motrin Monday night - also up all night, harder to get back down. Tuesday I returned to Motrin. Her tooth is still cutting, I figure it has to be hurting her and frankly we all need to sleep aruond here. Slept much better, only woke up once and got more meds. Last night I tried Tylenol at bedtime. She went right down - woke up 4 hours later when it wore off and I gave her Motrin. That's when all hell broke loose. She wound up being up for almost 2 hours - and even when she went back down, slept lightly and never for more than a 2.5 hour stretch. URGH. We let her CIO last night b/c she just wasnt going back down. I let her go for 20 minutes, spent 5 minutes in her room with her in the crib. She still would not go back down - let her go another 10 and then caved. I picked her up and she went right to sleep. URGH. I know - I know. Mommy fail with picking her up. But seriosuly - I can't be up for hours on end in the motn.

So it looks like I may have created a slight monster and may need to do something about it. I am not opposed to CIO - BUT I want her to learn the behavior at bedtime and hopefully not have these marathon sessions where the whole house is up in the MOTN. I confess - I am guilty for putting her in her crib asleep, somewhat. Sometimes she falls asleep with her last bottle, but typically I actually do put her down drowsy but then rub her back until she's sacked out.

Here are my questions, and there is nothing more I would love than some positive feedback for anyone who has been there, done that.

1.) Do I need to stop rubbing her back and begin the CIO at bedtime? (I think the answer is yes in the hopes of not having to do all of this in the MOTN).

2.) How long is too long to let her cry?

3.) what's the longest your child has gone with the crying?

4.) Can someone please explain to me how this works? I'm just not sold..... How does crying and crying and crying and crying teach them to put themselves to sleep?

5.) Is there anyone else who has had the bulk of their sleep problems in the MOTN vs at bedtime that did sleep training and had success?

6.) @pinottoparenthood - this one is for you..... You mentioned yesterday that you were doing sleep training but rather than an all out cry it out - you were staying in LO's room. How long do you stay there? I tried this last night as well, it seemed to help soothe her but it wasn't putting her back to sleep - althuogh I may not have given it long enough.....

TIA.

signed - a clueless FTM.

JBDamonM · January 2014

@clgsquared - curious. How difficult is he to get back to sleep in the MOTN?

JBDamonM · January 2014

jenbee829 said:

We were having all of our problems in the MOTN, not at bedtime. Bedtime was easy because I'd nurse and/or rock her to sleep. My pedi said we should start the CIO at bedtime because if you put them down totally asleep they are at the point that when they wake up, they are confused/upset to be alone in bed and not on mama's warm lap where they fell asleep.

Only you can decide how long is too long to let them cry. I have a really hard time listening to her cry. She barely cries at bedtime anymore, but MOTN we don't let her cry more than 10 mins without going in and patting her butt. The longest she's cried has been about an hour, on and off, with us going in every 10 mins or so.

Like I said, our probs were mainly MOTN and sleep training has been super successful for us.

Good luck! It is so hard and only you know what will work for your family but hopefully others have good suggestions!

So she's no longer waking up MOTN?

JBDamonM · January 2014

clgsquared said:

JBDamonM said:

@clgsquared - curious. How difficult is he to get back to sleep in the MOTN?
sometimes it just takes a few butt pats and that's it...other times its several times over the course of an hour of me going in and rubbing his butt and giving him his pacifier. There is no rhyme or reason to it. That's what is frustrating.

sounds like we have the same kid!

JBDamonM · January 2014

@clgsquared.....I can't even imagine.

I hate how torn I feel on this. My fear is that the damn stinking tooth is bothering her - BUT as my daycare pointed out today - if that was all it was, the Motrin would put her right to sleep.

This sucks.

Sarahbeth1169 · January 2014

CIO never has worked for our little guy. Patting his butt or back never has worked either. He will get on all fours and rock and cry. We have always put him to sleep at night and then laid him in his crib. For the most part he sleeps all night long but he's been teething so he will get up in the middle of the night. I will feed him and he goes right back to sleep. Sometimes I just pick hi. Up and he goes right back to slee and I laid him back in his crib. Dont get me wrong we do let him cry a little and 85% of the time he goes back to sleep on his own but sometimes we have to pick him up.

Sarahbeth1169 · January 2014

I forgot to say we do the same thing for his naps and when he wakes up he will at forever so we have to check on his lot. He he so just because we put him to sleep doesn't mean that he will cry when he wakes up. :-) P.S I like putting him to sleep.

pinottoparenthood · January 2014

I have been nursing Rhys to sleep since he was a newborn, and the pediatrician basically told us to cut that out if we want him to sleep through the night. I just can't bear to let him full-on cry it out... it's not that I'm morally opposed to it, I just personally can't do it.

Some nights, we are able to just leave him and he fusses/cries a little but not FULL-on crying/screaming, and then puts himself to sleep. On nights that he is screaming and upset, either DH or myself will go in there and literally just sit on the floor next to the crib and make shushing noises (DH also hums). At first, he would get more upset when I did it... I think because he wanted to nurse... so DH did it at first. The first night, I think he sat in there for 15 or 20 minutes. When he came down, he said that R was still awake but was quiet and just staring at him. he went to sleep. At this point, I somtimes have to sit in there with him for 5-10 minutes. He is usually still awake when I get up and leave, but he is sleep enough to where he will go to sleep by himself. I try not to touch him when we are doing this, although I may pat his back a little when I first go in if he is really upset. We don't pick him up.

He really has been doing a much better job of puting himself back to sleep MOTN. We will hear him wake up, make noise, then go back to sleep. Once in awhile, DH will still have to go in there MOTN and sit by the crib for a little while to soothe him.

ALso, do you have any sort of soothers in the crib? Our guy has a lovey and we also leave a couple pacifiers in there. He doesn't REALLY take pacifiers, but he will suck on it a little bit and it seems to help.

It is hard when they might be in pain. I might be temped to soothe more until the tooth breaks through before really resorting to full-fledged CIO.

Good luck! We are lucky because our guy normally is a pretty good sleeper, but his MOTN wake ups just were not going away. I'm glad we did this, and I am not not nursing him MOTN anymore.

R's favorite soother - he likes to suck on the knots:

Erin10408 · January 2014

1.) Do I need to stop rubbing her back and begin the CIO at bedtime? This is how we did it. Started at bedtime by laying her down drowsy but awake. Turned on sound machine, Glow Seahorse(ours hasn't started on fire, knock on wood), stroke her head, say good night, walk out and close the door.

2.) How long is too long to let her cry? We did the progressive CIO. Night one I believe the intervals were 3, 5, 10, and then 12 minutes. She cried that first night for 1 hour and 45 minutes with the checks....then she fell asleep for the rest of the night. I'm not sure how long is too long.

3.) what's the longest your child has gone with the crying? 1 hour, 45 minutes.

4.) Can someone please explain to me how this works? I'm just not sold..... How does crying and crying and crying and crying teach them to put themselves to sleep? For me, I KNEW that Claire was only wanting to be held...she dropped her MOTN feeding when she was 4 months old, and she didn't start having sleep problems until she was 6 months old. She was in our room in the PNP, and would cry every 2 hours. First rubbing her back worked, but then we would have to pick her up. She would fall asleep the instant we picked her up, but then cry when we put her down. I think it just helps them learn to shut their eyes and fall back asleep when they wake up, like an adult would. She still wakes in the night...I can hear her in her crib in her room moving around and sometimes babbling. Every once in awhile she will fuss. But she puts herself back to sleep.

5.) Is there anyone else who has had the bulk of their sleep problems in the MOTN vs at bedtime that did sleep training and had success? All of Claires were in the middle of the night. Bedtime was never the issue.

Of course, take this all with a grain of salt...Claire has always been a very good sleeper. It was just when she hit 6 months that it all went to hell. I blame seperation anxiety setting in. But now, it's almost like she wants to go to bed in her crib. As soon as I lay her down, she rolls on her side to look at her glow seahorse, and puts her little hands together, and she is sleeping almost instantly. And sleeps from 8pm-7am, and wakes up happy as can be.

Who knows...once she starts standing in her crib, etc, it might all go to hell again. Do you use some kind of night light or sound machine? That damn glow seahorse is amazing.

JBDamonM · January 2014

@erin10408 - a huge thank you. Thats some great advise.

I have one question for you, with the intervals, how long did you stay in the room? and did you just rub her back or shush her?

We have the seahorse. I keep it at the top of her crib....Perhaps I will put it at eye level. We also have the ladybug twilight thing - I personally love that. ANd we have a sleep sheep, which is necessary to drown out noise while she goes to sleep (we have a raised ranch - bedrooms are on same floor as main living area).

The situation you described where she falls asleep as soon as you pick her up is exactly what we dealt with ALL night last night.

Erin10408 · January 2014

@JBDamonM: When we went in, it was for a minute, tops. She always stopped crying when we went in. I would rub her head, talk to her softly, and then leave again. It was heartbreaking to walk out when she started crying again, but I stayed strong!

JBDamonM · January 2014

@erin10408 - my pedi warned me that if she stopped crying as soon as I walked in the room that I had a problem and needed to think about some sleep training. She never did it until this week

Erin10408 · January 2014

Yeah...thats also how I knew that she was just wanting to be held.

It sucks so bad...all you want to do is pick them up and snuggle them. But honestly...you need sleep to be a good mother, IMO. That one night of tears from both of us was TOTALLY worth the restorative sleep that my husband, Claire, and I get.

And as far as CIO for naps...meh. I tried it one day. Just didn't seem worth it to me. When I did it, I decided I would do half hour max of crying. She cried the entire time, didn't stop when I went in to soothe her, so I think she just wasn't ready to sleep.

JBDamonM · January 2014

I absolutely agree that I need my sleep. I am finding myself with horrible anxiety that comes on after a few bad nights of sleep....(the anxiety is a general thing - not about her not sleeping).... It's horrible. Plus she's 10 months old - there can't be excuses anymore for not sleeping.

I'm going to start tonight with putting her in the crib right after the bottle. I'm sure this will turn into crying and I already told my husband - we're going to open a bottle of wine and weather the storm. I just hope it works. And I REALLY hope if we get through it she doesn't also wake up in the motn. UGH.

My LO actually naps with no issues. Not for a super long time, but she's pretty consistent with going down at least an hour a day int he lunch time timeframe.

Erin10408 · January 2014

I struggled with PPD...even went on meds for it. But I noticed that it got much worse,even on meds, during the time that her sleep was a mess. That helped push us in the direction to sleep train.

You can do it, and having a plan with your husband is a fantastic idea...we did the same. We actually did it on a weekend night where neither of us had to work the next day. We made some food, cracked some beers, and made a night out of it. Even though I was crying into my beer.

JSS1002 · January 2014

First of all, this is so stressful and I'm sorry.

I don't really have any great advice about the specifics of sleep training, but my first thought is only that if the LO is teething or ill, it isn't a great time to try it... I feel like they get a "free pass" during those painful and difficult times to wake up as needed and be rocked or soothed back to sleep by mommy.

JBDamonM · January 2014

@JSS1002 - I agree about not doing it if she is in pain. However the fact that she had Motrin last night and still wouldn't sleep unless I held her leads me to think she's being a diva

JBDamonM · January 2014

You watch - because I am sitting here obsessing so much - she's going to fall asleep with her bottle tonight and stay asleep until the wee hours!

Erin10408 · January 2014

JSS1002 said:

First of all, this is so stressful and I'm sorry.

I don't really have any great advice about the specifics of sleep training, but my first thought is only that if the LO is teething or ill, it isn't a great time to try it... I feel like they get a "free pass" during those painful and difficult times to wake up as needed and be rocked or soothed back to sleep by mommy.

I agree with this as well...we did it when Claire was happy and healthy. I think, anyways...it's so hard to tell with those darn teeth.

AprilloMom · January 2014

1.) Do I need to stop rubbing her back and begin the CIO at bedtime? I would start at bedtime. For me, I was always afraid LO would not understand why sometimes he got rocked or patted (at bedtime) but other times he had to cry. Also after two nights of sleep training we started laying him down awake for naps too.

2.) How long is too long to let her cry? We also did the progressive CIO. It really only took him one night to figure it out. We did intervals of 5, 5, 7, 10, 12. It to a total of one hour. Each time I actually picked him up and patted his back and talked to him to help calm him down before putting him back in bed. I think most people would say this made it harder for LO, but it worked for us. The last time he calmed down as soon as he saw me, so I just patted him for a few seconds and left again. About 6 minutes later he fell asleep. Just make sure which ever way you decide to do it, you have to stick it out!

3.) what's the longest your child has gone with the crying? The first night was one hour. The longest period after the first night was 8 minutes which only happened twice. We started at 6 months. Now, it is either no crying at all or less than 2 minutes of fussing.

4.) Can someone please explain to me how this works? I'm just not sold..... How does crying and crying and crying and crying teach them to put themselves to sleep? Honestly I'm not really sure how exactly it works. Maybe they tire themselves out, fall asleep, and then realize they don't need to be rocked or nursed to sleep. I so did not want to do CIO, but I had to remind myself I wasn't only doing it so *I* could get more sleep, but I was also doing it so *he* could get more sleep, take better naps, and be an overall happier baby. And that is exactly what happen.

5.) Is there anyone else who has had the bulk of their sleep problems in the MOTN vs at bedtime that did sleep training and had success? Before sleep training, I would nurse LO to sleep. He slept through the night from 9 weeks-4 months. Then he started waking up once a night, then twice a night, then it turned into every two hours. And he would not go back to sleep unless I nursed him. That's when we knew we had to do sleep training.

Now that he has figured it out, I went back to nursing him to sleep at night. Well...actually 0% of the time, he won't nurse to sleep. Like PP said...it's like he WANTS me to lay him down. But sometimes he will give in and I get to snuggle him for a while before I lay him down. Also, now if he cries more than 5 minutes I go in and rock him. The fact that I do rock him on those rare occasions doesn't seem to affect him falling asleep on his own. So I haven't found it necessary to ALWAYS make him CIO just to prove the point, but I guess every baby is different in that aspect.

I really hope this helps! If it were me, I may wait until LO gets done cutting those teeth. Or until you know for sure she's not hurting. Maybe she is still uncomfortable even with the motrin? Good luck!

ETA: correction: #5: He won't let me nurse him to sleep 70% of the time. (Not sure what happened there!-Same point though.)

Erin10408 · January 2014

AprilloMom said:

1.) Do I need to stop rubbing her back and begin the CIO at bedtime? I would start at bedtime. For me, I was always afraid LO would not understand why sometimes he got rocked or patted (at bedtime) but other times he had to cry. Also after two nights of sleep training we started laying him down awake for naps too.

2.) How long is too long to let her cry? We also did the progressive CIO. It really only took him one night to figure it out. We did intervals of 5, 5, 7, 10, 12. It to a total of one hour. Each time I actually picked him up and patted his back and talked to him to help calm him down before putting him back in bed. I think most people would say this made it harder for LO, but it worked for us. The last time he calmed down as soon as he saw me, so I just patted him for a few seconds and left again. About 6 minutes later he fell asleep. Just make sure which ever way you decide to do it, you have to stick it out!

3.) what's the longest your child has gone with the crying? The first night was one hour. The longest period after the first night was 8 minutes which only happened twice. We started at 6 months. Now, it is either no crying at all or less than 2 minutes of fussing.

4.) Can someone please explain to me how this works? I'm just not sold..... How does crying and crying and crying and crying teach them to put themselves to sleep? Honestly I'm not really sure how exactly it works. Maybe they tire themselves out, fall asleep, and then realize they don't need to be rocked or nursed to sleep. I so did not want to do CIO, but I had to remind myself I wasn't only doing it so *I* could get more sleep, but I was also doing it so *he* could get more sleep, take better naps, and be an overall happier baby. And that is exactly what happen.

5.) Is there anyone else who has had the bulk of their sleep problems in the MOTN vs at bedtime that did sleep training and had success? Before sleep training, I would nurse LO to sleep. He slept through the night from 9 weeks-4 months. Then he started waking up once a night, then twice a night, then it turned into every two hours. And he would not go back to sleep unless I nursed him. That's when we knew we had to do sleep training.

Now that he has figured it out, I went back to nursing him to sleep at night. Well...actually 0% of the time, he won't nurse to sleep. Like PP said...it's like he WANTS me to lay him down. But sometimes he will give in and I get to snuggle him for a while before I lay him down. Also, now if he cries more than 5 minutes I go in and rock him. The fact that I do rock him on those rare occasions doesn't seem to affect him falling asleep on his own. So I haven't found it necessary to ALWAYS make him CIO just to prove the point, but I guess every baby is different in that aspect.

I really hope this helps! If it were me, I may wait until LO gets done cutting those teeth. Or until you know for sure she's not hurting. Maybe she is still uncomfortable even with the motrin? Good luck!

Haha...do we have the same kid?

Lhyacinth888 · January 2014

1.) Do I need to stop rubbing her back and begin the CIO at bedtime? (I think the answer is yes in the hopes of not having to do all of this in the MOTN)-

I still nurse my DD to sleep. Occasionally she is awake after I nurse her and then I'll put her down awake.

In the beginning we tried rubbing her back and other things but picking her up was the only thing she wanted. We had to just stop going in. In the beginning I would give her one freebie and I would rock her for a little bit then when I knew she was not in pain and that she just wanted to be held I would put her back down.

2.) How long is too long to let her cry? Whatever you're comfortable with.

3.) what's the longest your child has gone with the crying?

Maybe 2 hours once in thr beginning (on and off). She is very strong willed.

4.) Can someone please explain to me how this works? I'm just not sold..... How does crying and crying and crying and crying teach them to put themselves to sleep?

It's not the crying that teaches them to put themselves to sleep but the lack of your involvement which helps them learn to do it on their own.

5.) Is there anyone else who has had the bulk of their sleep problems in the MOTN vs at bedtime that did sleep training and had success?

We had problems with both. She just did not want to be without me and my boobs. Lol. I also bed-shared for the first 5 months so it was what she was used to.

kmama2013 · January 2014

1.) Do I need to stop rubbing her back and begin the CIO at bedtime? Yes, well that is what I did anyways. Before I did CIO I had to either rub her back or pat her butt for FOREVER and if i stopped before she was knocked out she'd sit up and start crying..(she slept next to me in her PnP until a little over a week ago)

2.) How long is too long to let her cry? Whatever you're comfortable with. The first night I did CIO she surprisingly fell asleep after about 20-30 minutes, but i checked on her every few minutes for about 3 times and realized it only made things worse so I just let her cry and boy did she cry, which in turn had me crying until she eventually passed out on her own. (she slept over 10 hours that night)

3.) what's the longest your child has gone with the crying? 20-30 minutes and now it takes her less than 10 minutes when I lay her down to pass out , she still cries sometimes but usually its for a short while and half of the time its more of a whine/wimper than a full out cry.

4.) Can someone please explain to me how this works? For me I had to let her CIO without me checking on her (as stated above) otherwise she would get more upset. I also put a blanket in there for her and her dolly. So far I haven't had to but if she cries for more than 10 minutes I have decided that is when I will go in and check on her , but for the first night id give it maybe a little longer up to 20 minutes , as long as she isn't in complete hysterics of course.
(There are some nights that she will still fall asleep while nursing, it doesn't seem to affect her sleeping through the night )

5.) Is there anyone else who has had the bulk of their sleep problems in the MOTN vs at bedtime that did sleep training and had success?

Once I got her to sleep that first night she's been awesome at sleeping through the night, well except for the past few days but that is because she has a cold so if she wakes up I will go in there to feed her bc I know she isn't feeling well.

I hope this helps in some way!

JBDamonM · January 2014

UGH - TOTAL FAIL last night. After I spent all day mentally preparing for this.

As I was giving her her bottle, out of no where she just started SCREAMING - like someone is trying to kill me scream. And then she arched her back and was flailing. It was like dealing with a gassy newborn. I have NO idea what set her off but clearly something was bothering her - so she got Motrin

I suppose the good news - she slept for 7 hours. Woke up, I got her back down without picking her up - she did wake up again a half hour later, when I picked her up and took her in our room, she woke up one other time but did sleep until 7:30 this morning with no more meds and woke up in a great mood. However the fact that I had to yet again pick her up solidifies that I need to do this. i've asked DH that we start tonight and I mean it. We hardly have any plans all weekend - this is a good time to tackle. I am anticipating her crying for 2 hours in the middle of the night

JBDamonM · January 2014

Thanks @alpineengaged - I think the bigger obstacle today is to get my husband on board.... we were both ready last night and today he seems a little more apprehensive....This is good weekend to do it though as we don't have much going on.

lilbit0910 · January 2014

i dont have any advice.. just wanted to say i'm in the same exact situation. i just cant seem to carry through with CIO. as soon as she cries i pick her up and put her in my bed again which i know is the problem.

JBDamonM · February 2014

I'm 17 minutes in. I was able to start it at bedtime......she's not as bad as I thought but I just wonder how long she will go. 2 hours is my limit

JBDamonM · February 2014

One hour five minutes and all is quiet! I'm happy with that. And I think if I hadn't gone in at all it would've been under an hour. I just hope she sleeps for most of the night so we don't have to do this again until tomorrow.

BellaBean76 · February 2014

Congrats! I know it's tough but so worth. I have my fingers crossed she sleeps through for you. Let us know how she does!!

Erin10408 · February 2014

Awesome job.

JBDamonM · February 2014

Success!!!!!!!! She slept 10 hours - until 730 this morning. One hiccup when she got woken up by accident at 10:45 - she cried for about 25 min and went back to sleep on her own. And I did this all on my own. DH ended up being out last night so I was solo. To further complicate things he let his friend stay here last night. I would not derail from our plans of starting this.....so I kept up with it. I can't lie - I feel a little super momish today. I am really proud of myself for getting it done and hope we stay on course tonight!

BellaBean76 · February 2014

Congrats!! Keep at it...sometimes I think it's easier to stay strong on your own...don't let H derail you tonight. Sleep filled nights are in your near future;)

ChicagoBroad26 · February 2014

So happy you got great results immediately! It's rough for sure. Hope all goes well tonight!

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