Doctor asked if we have guns.... (rant)

straightonuntilmorning · January 2014

Where I work it is standard to ask if the patient feels safe at home. It is an attempt to provide a safer way for someone to tell us they are being abused.

But today I was asked if we have firearms in my home.
Then I was asked exactly what kinds.
Then if the guns were locked up, and where the key is kept.
THEN where the ammo is located, if it is locked up and where the key is kept.
THEN why we even have the guns, how often we shoot them, where do we clean them.
THEN the bitch said, not asked "but you will be getting rid of them before the baby is born."

It's my fucking right to have those guns and I don't think it was any of her or my doctor's office's business!

I. am. pissed.

I don't care if you're for gun control or not - you do not fucking speak to a patient like that. Ugh.

/end rant

sarahg8r · January 2014

Sounds like her approach was definitely not appropriate. However, I think it is good that these sorts of questions are asked. Just perhaps not that in depth...

straightonuntilmorning · January 2014

Oh, I did.

If the NSA had the room bugged I'm also on some kind of list, now.

Wil08 · January 2014

I got the same questions. I honestly said no, even though DH does have a few guns. It was my first reaction. Ironically, even though I sad no she reminded me to ensure any and all firearms were locked up before we had the baby. I was more pissed when she tried to talk me into a natural childbirth because for her it was so much better than being drugged up and unable to take herself to the bathroom afterwards.

I would be pretty pissed if I were you. Just because someone has guns does not automatically make them irresponsible.

Raclla · January 2014

Seriously?! They asked that stuff??? What state are you in? Was this at your OB's office?

I completely understand asking someone if they feel safe at home. A lot of people won't seek help until they feel safe enough to talk to someone in general terms.

I feel that those questions are an invasion of privacy, and completely inappropriate. I am 100% for gun safety and training. I feel it is a personal decision. I don't think I would have answered the questions.

haliebabyx3 · January 2014

My boss just told me this the other day, that they will ask about guns. We only have one in the house and my DH uses it for emergency only. He told me not to even tell them we have any since we keep the one put up.

BeachM · January 2014

I've never been asked about guns by any doctor ever. Or any pediatrician DS has seen (we've been at 2 different practices since we moved to a different city when he was 1.5).

straightonuntilmorning · January 2014

Raclla said:

Seriously?! They asked that stuff??? What state are you in? Was this at your OB's office?

I completely understand asking someone if they feel safe at home. A lot of people won't seek help until they feel safe enough to talk to someone in general terms.

I feel that those questions are an invasion of privacy, and completely inappropriate. I am 100% for gun safety and training. I feel it is a personal decision. I don't think I would have answered the questions.

Michigan. I was seeing a new OB I was considering switching to. I will not be switching now. I'm fine with "do you feel safe" and I could even understand "if you have guns, are they locked up?" but to go that in depth and to make it feel like an interrogation was just too damn much.

violajack · January 2014

That's an odd line of questioning to be sure, and the final statement was just so wrong, but being concerned about where the guns are cleaned does make sense. My husband started taking way more precautions about cleaning the gun and his hands after shooting once DS came along. There is enough lead floating around to be careful with. But to me, it's along the lines of don't clean the cat box while pregnant. And just because I don't clean the cat box while I'm pregnant does not mean we have to get rid of the cats when the baby comes. Just be smart about childproof gun storage and keep the kid away from the lead. Telling you to get rid of the guns was so completely uncalled for.

lckcdc3 · January 2014

At my son's well visits we have to fill out a questionnaire and it asks of we have guns in the house. You are not required to answer it either way but we do have them. I personally don't think it's anyones business and I feel like it was certainly out of line for her to ask you all those questions.

Raclla · January 2014

There are SO many things that can be harmful to children. The list is endless. It's completely political that this one of things that the docs are asking focused questions about.

@theteno, bleach is a great example. Also, are your bookshelves anchored to the wall? Are the cleaning products behind lock and key? Do you have a glass coffee table? Are there any corners in your house? Do you ever have hot surfaces in the house, like, say, a stove?

Sorry...this just really gets to me. I am all for regulation and education. It burns me equally as bad when someone is an ignorant gun owner.

I firmly believe in smaller government. Don't tell me what I can do in my own home as long as I'm not harming others. I guess I lean more Republican in that aspect, but I also believe smaller government means not dictating who I can love/marry or what I do with my body. Those are definitely not Rep. views.

I just added that for some clarification. I'm not a crazy backwoods, gun toting, anti gov crazy. (Big Brother, don't drone me. lol)

ungraceful13 · January 2014

That is crazy. Ok asking if you have guns is fine and if they and the ammo are locked up is also fine but anything else is crossing the line. I've never been asked about guns before and we have one. Weird way to approach it.

BlckRoses · January 2014

That seems really invasive to me. I've never had anyone ask me about our guns. I do live in AZ and we love our guns in this state, so I figure we'll be later to the game for that type of thing.

I feel that part of responsible gun ownership is knowing how to secure your firearms and keep them safely away from children. If someone isn't going to be a responsible gun owner, a bunch of personal questions at the OB isn't going to change that.

RJS2014 · January 2014

bobyn1113 said:
Sounds like she's planning to rob you...

That was my exact thought too! I think it is common sense to keep guns out of reach/locked up, even if you don't have kids. Her questions were extremely invasive and her comment was just plain unprofessional. I would not go back to a doc that said that to me either!

marathonmommy82 · January 2014

Our well baby questionnaire includes a question regarding guns, and I don't think it's inappropriate considering the amount of accidental shootings by and at children (last week a 4 year old shot and fatally killed her young cousin).

Our question asked if there are guns at any house our child frequently visits, are they locked, and if ammo is kept separately. I don't think that's so different than asking where the kid rides in the car, if household cleaners are accessible, etc.

kkidd28 · January 2014

Wow! They just ask if they are kept safe. The assumption that you will get rid of them is RUDE! I would have told her off!

rockyrollgirl · January 2014

Add me to the list of people that has never heard of this. California.

mamabear214 · January 2014

My midwife asked me the same question, she is a CNM that works in a hospital and was required to ask as well. We actually started having a personal conversation about them and asked me if I knew how to use them and just mentioned she was glad I was comfortable handling them if they were in my home. Otherwise they *could* do more damage than harm. I would have lost my mind if anyone responded the way your nurse did though.

RunningJ · January 2014

I was wondering if it might be a requirement based on what state you live in, and found this article. Overall, it sounds like a new recommendation that doctors (pediatricians and internists specifically) ask about. Except, apparently in FL. Sounds like her doctor had some additional questions, though. I will be VERY surprised if I am asked about this in the state I live in.

Vieve831 · January 2014

I work in the Social Work field and was at some training where they said as part of health care reform a lot of people were going to start asking about guns (pediatricians being one of them). I don't know if it was state or federal reform. I live in NYS. The point is supposed to make sure guns are properly stored. The provider should not be judgmental about owning guns!!

happylady07 · January 2014

I have never been asked about guns, in two states and 4 different peds, 2 different ob offices. Personally, I would have said no comment, or denied it altogether.

I get the do you feel safe at home? line of questioning, but find it very telling that certain states (I'm assuming it's only certain states or areas) will ask in depth gun regulation related questions, but not review basic car seat safety or at least make sure you know not to put the car seat on top of a freaking shopping cart basket. You know, real dangers I see on a daily basis.

Call me a crazy conspiracy theorist, but the gun questions are totally political.

happylady07 · January 2014

happylady07 said:
I have never been asked about guns, in two states and 4 different peds, 2 different ob offices. Personally, I would have said no comment, or denied it altogether.

I get the do you feel safe at home? line of questioning, but find it very telling that certain states (I'm assuming it's only certain states or areas) will ask in depth gun regulation related questions, but not review basic car seat safety or at least make sure you know not to put the car seat on top of a freaking shopping cart basket. You know, real dangers I see on a daily basis.

Call me a crazy conspiracy theorist, but the gun questions are totally political.

For the record, I'm not saying guns aren't dangerous. I'm saying any responsible gun owner who owns legal weapons is well educated in gun safety and storage. We can assume all households with young children have car seats, cleaning products, and large furniture that poses a risk to the kids if proper precautions aren't taken. Not all households have weapons and those that do, *should* already be more educated in their safe use than any nurse can add onto. Just saying.

Jennicillin · January 2014

Unfortunately these types of questions are about to become a lot more frequent. It's one of the extra little earmarks that came with the ACA/Healthcare reform/Obamacare/whatever you call it. It's a new federal requirement that will eventually be implemented nationwide.... For the record, I think it's stupid, and overly invasive, and has nothing to do with reforming health care coverage :-/

straightonuntilmorning · January 2014

Thanks ladies. I was nervous posting this, I didn't want to start a gun/antigun debate.

At first I was fine with the questions do you have them and are they locked, but when she kept going and going I was shocked. I should have stopped the line of questioning, but I kept answering (albeit very defensively) and then I finally went off on her after what she said about getting rid of them. I plan to write a letter to the doctor's office about her behavior.

FWIW; Hunny and I are very responsible gun owners and have already discussed how our kids will be raised and taught about gun safety.

shevaCC · January 2014

I think your response was reasonable and I'm glad you'll pass on the knowledge of responsible gun ownership to your children. But I'm a little surprised at some of the knee-jerk reactions other people have expressed at merely being asked about gun ownership in the first place. Really, PP, you'd pull your gun on a nurse who asks you a question? We were asked about guns along with whether we have baby gates, furniture anchored, a pool, etc. I have no issues with them asking about gun ownership and emphasizing gun safety just like they talk about drowning risk, poisoning risk, etc. I do think she crossed the line with asking you specifically where you kept the keys and telling you to get rid of them. But other safety reminders were very helpful to me -- like reminding me at the 4 month check-up that my baby may be crawling any day now and to consider that she might fall down the stairs. I don't see why nurses should avoid the gun safety topic all together.

beachbum4304 · January 2014

I've never been asked this and we are seen on base. They always ask if I feel safe at home and do a mental health screening.

tamarar5 · January 2014

I've never been asked by a medical professional if we have guns. But when my kids were briefly on medicaid their DHS worker actually accused me of being a terrible parent and threatened to contact CPS if I refused to remove our hunting shotgun from my house.

I was so completely at a loss that I said I would. Luckily, I have a very close friend who works for CPS. Being new to the state them, I asked if there was some law against having guns in the house (Michigan) and she assured me there wasn't. She also said that the DHS lady was completely out of lines in her accusations and she couldn't file a report for that reason alone. I later learned that other clients with the same worker filed complaints about this lady's professionalism and she was fired.

We've since started storing out guns over at my parent's house simply for convenience. We hunt out there, we might as well leave them safely out there, right?

I get that people have very different opinions on gun control and gun safety. What I don't get is threatening to call CPS on a complete stranger over something like this. It's not like we let out kids play with guns! We are responsible owners! If that woman had asked what out safety measures were, I gladly would have shared them.

Rosebean · January 2014

I would have given her a look and said "OH, I will be using them all right..." My public health nurse asked me if anyone in our family had a drinking problem when she was visiting our house after DS was born. I said no... But failed to mention my H's kegerator downstairs in the basement.

straightonuntilmorning · January 2014

TamaraR4 said:

I've never been asked by a medical professional if we have guns. But when my kids were briefly on medicaid their DHS worker actually accused me of being a terrible parent and threatened to contact CPS if I refused to remove our hunting shotgun from my house. I was so completely at a loss that I said I would. Luckily, I have a very close friend who works for CPS. Being new to the state them, I asked if there was some law against having guns in the house (Michigan) and she assured me there wasn't. She also said that the DHS lady was completely out of lines in her accusations and she couldn't file a report for that reason alone. I later learned that other clients with the same worker filed complaints about this lady's professionalism and she was fired. We've since started storing out guns over at my parent's house simply for convenience. We hunt out there, we might as well leave them safely out there, right? I get that people have very different opinions on gun control and gun safety. What I don't get is threatening to call CPS on a complete stranger over something like this. It's not like we let out kids play with guns! We are responsible owners! If that woman had asked what out safety measures were, I gladly would have shared them.

I'm sorry you went through this. To be honest, I was so rattled at first because she made me feel like I am a horrible person and she might turn me in to CPS or something. It really felt like an interrogation, not patient intake. But that very well could have been pregnancy-hormone-over-reaction. I do not think, however, that I overreacted when I gave her the business at the end. She definitely crossed a line.

Wil08 · January 2014

As someone who received this question (in the state of Washington), I was pretty caught off guard, which I think is partially what makes it so shocking.

Nurse: Do you have a history of breast cancer?
Me: Yes my maternal grandmother.
Nurse: How many times a week do you drink?
Me: Prior to pregnancy 3-5.
Nurse: What's your blood type
Me: I don't know.
Nurse: Do you know own any guns
Me: Whhaaaa??? No (Though I pretty much forgot we did).

Next I was expecting her to ask if I kept my legal marijuana locked up.

Overall it was jarring and out of context with the rest of the line of questioning. Like they were trying to catch me in a lie. Which I did lie, but I didn't meant to.

sarahinthecity10 · January 2014

I think her questions were excessive but not out of line. You assume most gun owners are responsible but you don't know that. There are many accidental shootings and kids are smart. At a very young age they can find keys and unlock cabinets just by watching you. I don't have guns (and personally hate them) and I plan to ask parents if they have guns in their home and how they are secured if my children are going to play at their house without me being there. You can't trust what others may or may not do just based on how you handle it in your home.

RunningJ · January 2014

Jennicillin said:

Unfortunately these types of questions are about to become a lot more frequent. It's one of the extra little earmarks that came with the ACA/Healthcare reform/Obamacare/whatever you call it. It's a new federal requirement that will eventually be implemented nationwide.... For the record, I think it's stupid, and overly invasive, and has nothing to do with reforming health care coverage :-/

I work in the health care industry and interact quite a bit with the ACA. My understanding is that the ACA has a provision banning the collection of the data of guns and a provision that ensures that you can chose to not respond (both put in by the NRA), but executive orders have been issued that clarify the inherent privilege that the questions can be asked. I could be wrong though, as this isn't my area of expertise. If you had any links to something confirming that it is a requirement I'd be really interested to read it (politics and insurance NERD alert).

My personal belief is that a doctor is a person that has the right (free speech) to ask me that question and I can say to them that I don't want to answer their question. I think too many questions were asked and the nurse obviously inserted her bias when questioning OP.

Jennicillin · January 2014

RunningJ said:

Jennicillin said:

Unfortunately these types of questions are about to become a lot more frequent. It's one of the extra little earmarks that came with the ACA/Healthcare reform/Obamacare/whatever you call it. It's a new federal requirement that will eventually be implemented nationwide.... For the record, I think it's stupid, and overly invasive, and has nothing to do with reforming health care coverage :-/

I work in the health care industry and interact quite a bit with the ACA. My understanding is that the ACA has a provision banning the collection of the data of guns and a provision that ensures that you can chose to not respond (both put in by the NRA), but executive orders have been issued that clarify the inherent privilege that the questions can be asked. I could be wrong though, as this isn't my area of expertise. If you had any links to something confirming that it is a requirement I'd be really interested to read it (politics and insurance NERD alert).

My personal belief is that a doctor is a person that has the right (free speech) to ask me that question and I can say to them that I don't want to answer their question. I think too many questions were asked and the nurse obviously inserted her bias when questioning OP.

My husband showed the article about it to me a while back.... I'll send him digging to find it again. He's a politics nerd too, I get a lot of his nerdiness backlogged in my brain, then always have to go back to him for the source :-p

egf · January 2014

I think this is part of their educational portion. If you smoke around your child they will try and educate you not to, if you don't wear your seat belt they will try and educate you to, if you don't lock up your guns they will try and educate you to lock them up. I've had them ask in MN if we have guns and if they are locked. In WI it was just on the form I had to fill out, they didn't verbally ask. They've asked this for at least the past 3 years if not before, I don't think it has anything to do with new or not new healthcare laws.

Jolaine83 · January 2014

She was out of line. Cut and dried. There is no excuse for that type of behavior. Definitely do not stick with a doctor who is as politically motivated and disrespectful as that.

Asking if you have guns and if you keep them safely locked up is one thing. Asking if you feel safe in your own home is along the same lines. Asking where you lock of your guns and your ammo is another and acting as if it's a guarantee that you'll be getting rid of your guns when the baby arrives is a completely different, inappropriate thing.

I would tell the doctor it was none of her business if she asks where things are locked up, but make sure she understands that we do safely store our weapon. I'd assure her that we would not have let a weapon into our home without doing our own research and preparation for keeping everyone safe from said weapon.

I have not been asked. I'm in Iowa, so it hasn't started everywhere yet. I was already asked the who 'do you feel safe in your home?' line of questioning, so I don't foresee being asked.

happylady07 · January 2014

LoisLayn23 said:

happylady07 said:

I have never been asked about guns, in two states and 4 different peds, 2 different ob offices. Personally, I would have said no comment, or denied it altogether. I get the do you feel safe at home? line of questioning, but find it very telling that certain states (I'm assuming it's only certain states or areas) will ask in depth gun regulation related questions, but not review basic car seat safety or at least make sure you know not to put the car seat on top of a freaking shopping cart basket. You know, real dangers I see on a daily basis. Call me a crazy conspiracy theorist, but the gun questions are totally political.
For the record, I'm not saying guns aren't dangerous. I'm saying any responsible gun owner who owns legal weapons is well educated in gun safety and storage. We can assume all households with young children have car seats, cleaning products, and large furniture that poses a risk to the kids if proper precautions aren't taken. Not all households have weapons and those that do, *should* already be more educated in their safe use than any nurse can add onto. Just saying.

Well, sure. But accidental shootings kill more people (kids, especially) than furniture and clenaing products.

"If you have weapons in your house, are they locked up properly?" Would be an appropriate question if they are truly just interested in your future child's safety.

Accidental drownings are huge for young children (pretty sure higher cause of death than guns), are they telling everyone to cement over their pools?

I guess the nurse was just so out of line and obviously biased, it rubbed me wrong. I do have a problem with extensive gun questioning because it really makes me wonder if they will have CPS knocking on your door if you get a nut like that for a nurse who is on some weird power trip.

happylady07 · January 2014

sarahinthecity10 said:
I think her questions were excessive but not out of line. You assume most gun owners are responsible but you don't know that. There are many accidental shootings and kids are smart. At a very young age they can find keys and unlock cabinets just by watching you. I don't have guns (and personally hate them) and I plan to ask parents if they have guns in their home and how they are secured if my children are going to play at their house without me being there. You can't trust what others may or may not do just based on how you handle it in your home.

Completely agree with you here. As a parent, it is your responsibility to know what kind of environment your kid is playing in. It is absolutely shocking to me how many parents let their kids play at houses when they haven't even met the parent, let alone asked some very important safety questions. Which ultimately comes back to the parenting, no amount of simple safety questions is going to prevent bad parenting, IMHO.

happylady07 · January 2014

LoisLayn23 said:
I'm not saying the nurse wasn't out of line with her questioning (moreso the last couple than the first few), but gun safety is a huge problem. Everyone thinks they are a safe gun owner. Clearly the statistics about the volume of accidental shootings prove otherwise.

Agree. I guess personally, and I could be totally off base, I would be curious how many of the owners of guns used in accidental shootings 1) acquired them legally, 2) have any formal training in gun use and safety.

There is a big difference between the person who owns guns passed down from relatives or just for the heck of it and never shot them, or takes them out once a year, and the person who actually knows what they are doing, whether that experience be from military/police training, hunting experience, etc.

"Is it true if you don't use it, you lose it?"
"Is that a serious question?"

happylady07 · January 2014

trawas01 said:

happylady07 said:

LoisLayn23 said:
I'm not saying the nurse wasn't out of line with her questioning (moreso the last couple than the first few), but gun safety is a huge problem. Everyone thinks they are a safe gun owner. Clearly the statistics about the volume of accidental shootings prove otherwise.
Agree. I guess personally, and I could be totally off base, I would be curious how many of the owners of guns used in accidental shootings 1) acquired them legally, 2) have any formal training in gun use and safety.

There is a big difference between the person who owns guns passed down from relatives or just for the heck of it and never shot them, or takes them out once a year, and the person who actually knows what they are doing, whether that experience be from military/police training, hunting experience, etc.

"Is it true if you don't use it, you lose it?"
"Is that a serious question?"

The vast majority of guns in this country are bought and held legally. Most guns used in accidents, homicides and suicides are legally purchased firearms.

Very, very few places require ANY safety or use training to purchase, carry or own.

If your interested a very large study came out a few months ago on gun use and ownership in the US. It was one of the first since restrictions on gun research was lifted, despite many objections by the NRA.

I am always fascinated by this type of thing, statistics nerd over here... Where is the link?

You pretty much made my point, I guess married to a man with many years military experience and an avid hunter, it seems like he is always taking additional class time in order to get new permits, hunting licenses, etc.

It seems like rather than scream about background checks, waiting periods, and types of guns and ammo that can be sold (though naturally making sure you aren't a criminal or don't have a mental health issue is beneficial), it would be most helpful to require proper gun safety training before buying, as common sense isn't so common anymore.

strmbreez · January 2014

I'm not following though how asking questions about gun safety really proves that the patient is, in fact, a responsible gun owner? Anyone can answer "Yes" when asked if the guns are locked up. And simply having your guns locked up doesn't make you a responsible gun owner or parent.

I was raised in a household where Dad kept his firearm in his nightstand, with ammo in the same drawer in case of a break-in. I was taught from the very beginning, before I was old enough to even shoot a gun, what a gun was and how dangerous they can be when misused. I was taught how to fire a gun when I was 4. I never once grabbed the gun and played with it like a toy. Because I was taught that it's not a toy. Guns were never kept from my brothers and sisters and I. They weren't locked up to where we had no access. We just knew that if we played with them, something very bad would happen. So asking questions in a Dr. office doesn't determine if someone is a responsible gun owner or not. And I don't think Dr's are stupid enough to think that it does. Which means they're asking for a different reason.

If asked, I would simply tell them it's none of their business. Asking a questions about guns helps in no way with making a determination of whether or not I'm going to be a good parent.

MissLMS · January 2014

I've been asked about gun ownership (specifically recommending guns be locked up) in my pedi's office, along with reminders about carseat requirements, locking up chemicals/cleaners and using baby gates. I live in a state (Alabama) with very high gun ownership and I was not offended at all.

Where your nurse crossed the line was by infusing her opinion and telling you to get rid of it.

Although, I have to say, my DH had a gun before we had kids and he got rid of it when I was pg with DD. I feel much, much safer not having a gun in our house with small children, and I grew up in a house WITH guns. I teach my children that guns are dangerous and are not to be played with, same as anyone else. But, I don't want to risk even the chance of them getting a hold of one - at age 2 and 4, my kids get into EVERYTHING. It's a chance I wouldn't want to risk.

Also, we made sure to ask our in-home sitter if they have guns and how they were stored before we sent our kids over there. (They do have guns, but they are always locked up.)

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