You and partner have different last names: what will baby's last name be?

wtfisup · January 2014

sempre_staccato said:

I think there's actually a good, biological reason for this. There's no need for me to claim this baby as my own - I'm the one giving birth to it, after all. But, when a father gives a child his last name, I think it's really beautiful symbolism of his own commitment to that child.

I see this, but then I don't. There are plenty of biological mothers that don't care for or act in parental roles to their children. And the original structure of paternity being dubious kind of died out with modern society. In some cultures, name-passing was a means of property marking. In others, is was a way of saying "this kid is legitimate -- born from a marriage, not an affair or prostitute." We've definitely evolved past that. Women aren't property, nor is there a need to "prove" fatherhood anymore. I don't know how that would even work. Step-families, adoptive families, blended families. Plus I know plenty of dads who gave nothing but their names, and it showed zero commitment. (Obvs this isn't the case of your husband, just remarking.)

That said, I definitely get names as having symbolic meaning. I kind of wish my husband had his mother's maiden name -- she's Honduran, had a beautiful name, and it had immense history and meaning. But when she came to the US and married, she swapped it for a really generic name. (And I know we could choose to use it anyway, but it would be too weird.) Of course, that's just my perspective -- to her, taking her American husband's name meant a lot, including change, residency, and a new life. So it's clearly very subjective.

FeliciaTwo · January 2014

wtfisup said:

Both my name and my husband's name are always messed up by 90% of humans. I think that's just part of life. The "-son" at this end of his name is always omitted. Mine is always mispronounced.

Aardvarks, on the other hand, have no problems pronouncing either name. (Sorry, I couldn't help myself

. :P. )

obscurereference · January 2014

What do you do for monograms if you have 4 names or a hyphenated last name? I'm just curious.

lest12 · January 2014

gatewols said:
What do you do for monograms if you have 4 names or a hyphenated last name? I'm just curious.

The same thing as those of us with no middle name, only two initials?

Sorry, this sounds so FWP.

wtfisup · January 2014

gatewols said:
What do you do for monograms if you have 4 names or a hyphenated last name? I'm just curious.

I've never had or wanted a monogrammed anything in my life. Not an issue.

Kc4mom · January 2014

All of my kids have my madian name as a middle name. I also changed my middle name to my madian name. I wanted them to have something of my family in their name. Working on H to change his middle name too.

YetterEA · January 2014

I am little surprised by the results of this poll and I am wondering--are people actually in this situation and answering or just answering what they would do (and not choosing the last option)?SO and I are together, but not married, thus DD has my last name. LO will also have my last name. If SO and I do ever get married, I will retain my last name and so will the children.

tbmadeamistake · January 2014

I took DH's last name and so do/will our children. I have two interesting stories on this, though.
I grew up with a family whose parents hyphenated their last names, so she started out as M-R. When she got married, she wanted to keep at least part of her maiden name, but three names was too many. She ended up keeping the M because she liked that side of her family better. She's now M-B. Her sister did the same thing.in college, I had a prof whose initials at birth were ABC. She married a man whose last name started with D so she kept her maiden name and became ABCD because it was fun.

jillnnate · January 2014

My daughter has my maiden name as her middle name and H's as her last name.

This baby will be the same.

k2k2tog · January 2014

wtfisup said:

sempre_staccato said:

I think there's actually a good, biological reason for this. There's no need for me to claim this baby as my own - I'm the one giving birth to it, after all. But, when a father gives a child his last name, I think it's really beautiful symbolism of his own commitment to that child.

I see this, but then I don't. There are plenty of biological mothers that don't care for or act in parental roles to their children. And the original structure of paternity being dubious kind of died out with modern society. In some cultures, name-passing was a means of property marking. In others, is was a way of saying "this kid is legitimate -- born from a marriage, not an affair or prostitute." We've definitely evolved past that. Women aren't property, nor is there a need to "prove" fatherhood anymore. I don't know how that would even work. Step-families, adoptive families, blended families. Plus I know plenty of dads who gave nothing but their names, and it showed zero commitment. (Obvs this isn't the case of your husband, just remarking.)

That said, I definitely get names as having symbolic meaning. I kind of wish my husband had his mother's maiden name -- she's Honduran, had a beautiful name, and it had immense history and meaning. But when she came to the US and married, she swapped it for a really generic name. (And I know we could choose to use it anyway, but it would be too weird.) Of course, that's just my perspective -- to her, taking her American husband's name meant a lot, including change, residency, and a new life. So it's clearly very subjective.

Society has evolved (thank goodness), but I think that means we also have to allow the meaning behind customs evolve as well. Giving his name to our baby is a sign of my husband's commitment to the needs of our boy or girl, and the responsibility of fatherhood, not a mark of ownership. I will have those signs of my commitment on my physical body - the stretchmarks, the breast feeding boobs, etc. It's all symbolic. I know that many fathers don't live up to that symbolism, and some fathers and children are connected by something other than that symbol (in the case of blended families, etc.). But, for me, in the situation that I am in, with all the hopes I have for our little family, I love that my husband will share my baby's last name, even if I don't.

Last names are problematic, no matter the way you look at it. I kept my last name when I got married, but really, that just means I kept my father's name, thereby not actually escaping the mark of patriarchy at all. If I give my child my last name, really, I'm giving him or her a different man's last name. I suppose my husband and I could have come up with a last name unique to us, but that would not necessarily have had any meaning in either of our lives.

That said, my parents have brought up the idea of using my last name as a second middle name for our little one. They didn't really request it, but I know they would love it if we did that, so we might, connecting our LO to both lineages from which he/she came.

k2k2tog · January 2014

mullenem said: Just out of curiousity, would you have an issue if your daughter wanted to go the traditional route when she got married and take her husband's last name? Or would you encourage her to keep her own name?

I think choosing a name when you get married is a very personal decision, and there's no wrong answer. See my post above - keep your name or take your husbands name, you still have a man's name, one way or the other. The only thing I would encourage my own daughter to do, no matter the decision she makes, is to think about it and understand her own reasoning for the name she takes. I don't want her to do something just because I did it, or just because it's what her friends are doing. I want her to understand the issues around it and what it means to her, to her husband, to her future, etc. etc. Whatever decision she makes after careful thought, I will support.

Maybe I put a lot of significance on a silly name, but I can't help it. Words and their meanings are important to me.

ETA: weird formatting!

kbellizio3 · January 2014

My mom didn't have a middle name so when she married my dad she made her maiden name her middle name. My sister and I both have hyphenated middle names but its spelled the traditional Swedish way (instead of the way immigration made my great grandfather spell it when he came here). A middle name with my mom's maiden name. Luckily mine was the same letter so when I got a monogram I just used the one letter.

While this doesn't apply to me because I took DH's last name, we are using DH's mom's maiden name for a boys middle name (not sure how it will go over with FIL but it's a name so rich with history and I love it) and I'm considering hyphenating a middle name for a girl giving her my second middle name and her first after my grandmother who's last name is my 2nd middle name. That way I get the family history in there and keep the one last name.

I do have a friend who's debating between hyphenating or just using his because she didn't change her name. But both of their names sound awesome hyphenated so I told her she shouldn't worry about how it sounds.

Luna C · January 2014

sempre_staccato said
Last names are problematic, no matter the way you look at it. I kept my last name when I got married, but really, that just means I kept my father's name, thereby not actually escaping the mark of patriarchy at all.
***
No. You kept YOUR name. I don't understand this logical inequality that if someone keeps her maiden name, it's her father's name, but if she takes her husband's it's HIS name, not her FILs.
The name you grew up with is your name. Not your dad's. Or your mom's. Or your uncle's or grandpa's or whoever else happens to share that surname.

Luna C · January 2014

But, I do like the idea of the whole family having the same last name, hyphenated, combined from the two names, his name, her name, whatever.
***
I'm going to pick on you just because you're the most recent person to say this. This is another thing I don't understand. Every family has people with different last names.
In my large extended family, due to an abundance of girl offspring who all changed their names when they got married and the men dying off early, literally the only people left with the "original" K surname are me, one uncle, and my 95 year old grandma. The bulk of the attendees at our reunions have surnames J or S, but when we get together it's a "K family reunion" or we joke about K family DNA, etc. No one has to explain that we mean K-J-S family reunions.
It's not a name that makes a family. It's behavior and shared experiences.

k2k2tog · January 2014

Luna C said:

sempre_staccato said
Last names are problematic, no matter the way you look at it. I kept my last name when I got married, but really, that just means I kept my father's name, thereby not actually escaping the mark of patriarchy at all.
***
No. You kept YOUR name. I don't understand this logical inequality that if someone keeps her maiden name, it's her father's name, but if she takes her husband's it's HIS name, not her FILs.
The name you grew up with is your name. Not your dad's. Or your mom's. Or your uncle's or grandpa's or whoever else happens to share that surname.

True, this is how I feel and this is why I kept my last name when I got married. I grew up with it, it was a part of who I am, and it connected me to my family, with whom I am really close. But that doesn't change the fact that my father gave me that last name, connecting me to himself through a patriarchal system. One way or another, you are connecting yourself to a patriarchal lineage, whether it's your father's (and his father's, and his fathers, etc.) or your husband's (and his father's and his father's etc.).

wtfisup · January 2014

I feel like there are a lot if assumptions that any of our daughters will be traditional heterosexuals feminine women.

I don't know how my daughter will identify her gender, which sex she'll be attracted to, whether she'll want marriage or kids. Those are all up to her, so I'm not making any decisions based on them.

wtfisup · January 2014

sempre_staccato said:

mullenem said:

Just out of curiousity, would you have an issue if your daughter wanted to go the traditional route when she got married and take her husband's last name? Or would you encourage her to keep her own name?

I think choosing a name when you get married is a very personal decision, and there's no wrong answer. See my post above - keep your name or take your husbands name, you still have a man's name, one way or the other. The only thing I would encourage my own daughter to do, no matter the decision she makes, is to think about it and understand her own reasoning for the name she takes. I don't want her to do something just because I did it, or just because it's what her friends are doing. I want her to understand the issues around it and what it means to her, to her husband, to her future, etc. etc. Whatever decision she makes after careful thought, I will support.

Maybe I put a lot of significance on a silly name, but I can't help it. Words and their meanings are important to me.

ETA: weird formatting!

------/

Ditto. I have no plans to make any recommendations to my daughter on how she navigates relationships and society, aside from avoiding harm to herself or others. She can be a polygamous drag king with the legal last name PretzelRoll if she wants, so long as she's safe and happy.

k2k2tog · January 2014

wtfisup said:

I feel like there are a lot if assumptions that any of our daughters will be traditional heterosexuals feminine women. I don't know how my daughter will identify her gender, which sex she'll be attracted to, whether she'll want marriage or kids. Those are all up to her, so I'm not making any decisions based on them.

My experience is only from a traditional, heterosexual context. However, should my daughter or my son grow up to experience anything different, I expect, should they marry, they'll still have to struggle with the last name question, and even in that context, last names are still largely rooted in patriarchy. And I'll still support whichever last name he/she chooses!

k2k2tog · January 2014

mullenem said:

[snip]

I'm sure that someday my daughter will take her husband's name (or maybe not, either way) but that's when she is starting her own family unit. There's a part in the bible that talks about the child leaving his parents to become one with his wife and that's the sort of meaning I personally get with taking the same last name (however you decide to do it). But, it is a personal decision and if you choose to not take your spouse's name, it's not like I think of you as less of a unit or couple.

Technically, during Biblical times, no one had last names...

I do get the desire to have the same name as a family unit. After all, I am about the symbolism of a name when it comes to family. For me, however, that was a sacrifice I was willing to make in order to symbolically maintain my own identity and individually within the marriage.

I feel like we totally hijacked this thread with all our feminist theory talk... but I guess it's hard to talk about our kids' last names without talking about our own? Honestly, I love these kinds of conversations!

wtfisup · January 2014

@sempre_staccato, nonsense! For my husband and I, feminism is a big part of not just our marriage but our plans for parenting. Heck, it's part of our identity and how we go about life. I can't imagine extracting it from the conversation.

k2k2tog · January 2014

wtfisup said:

@sempre_staccato, nonsense! For my husband and I, feminism is a big part of not just our marriage but our plans for parenting. Heck, it's part of our identity and how we go about life. I can't imagine extracting it from the conversation.

Huh? I never said we should! I would agree with you 100%.

wtfisup · January 2014

sempre_staccato said:

wtfisup said:

@sempre_staccato, nonsense! For my husband and I, feminism is a big part of not just our marriage but our plans for parenting. Heck, it's part of our identity and how we go about life. I can't imagine extracting it from the conversation.

Huh? I never said we should! I would agree with you 100%.

Blargh, I think I wasn't clear. I was saying "nonsense" to your apology, meaning it's totally relevant and fine.

k2k2tog · January 2014

wtfisup said:

sempre_staccato said:

wtfisup said:

@sempre_staccato, nonsense! For my husband and I, feminism is a big part of not just our marriage but our plans for parenting. Heck, it's part of our identity and how we go about life. I can't imagine extracting it from the conversation.

Huh? I never said we should! I would agree with you 100%.

Blargh, I think I wasn't clear. I was saying "nonsense" to your apology, meaning it's totally relevant and fine.

Oh phew!

I hope to raise my kids to be aware of gender issues and be part of the movement for equality. DH comes from a very different background than my own, however, and had very little awareness of gender inequality or his own white, straight, male privilege, for that matter. He's been very open to learning and has grown in his understanding of the issues a lot - I wouldn't have married him otherwise! - but there are still some things we disagree about. Lots to hash out over the next few months and years.

saraphaerie · January 2014

Surprised to find I'm in a very small minority! We decided when we got married that any kids we had would take my last name. My husband's reasoning is that the most peaceful societies are matrilineal--i.e. power is passed down through women, not men. We're both pacifists and feminists, so I'll take it! We know a few couples who have given their kids the father's name, then the mother's name, or vice versa. I like that idea, too, though having a different last name than other family members can be complicated (especially with siblings, I would think).

Susanbeth85 · January 2014

***
No. You kept YOUR name. I don't understand this logical inequality that if someone keeps her maiden name, it's her father's name, but if she takes her husband's it's HIS name, not her FILs.
The name you grew up with is your name. Not your dad's. Or your mom's. Or your uncle's or grandpa's or whoever else happens to share that surname.

Such a great point!

dashe79 · January 2014

I kept my name when we got married. Any kids we have will have his LN, and my LN as their only middle name. I think it's important to have both our names represented, and DH agrees.

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You and partner have different last names: what will baby's last name be?

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