flu shot for your LO?

Boonhilde · January 2014

I got him one then regretted it because I heard ALL KINDS of horrible stuff about flu shots and babies.

Now, my little guy is still 11 months, but I would skip it. It's the flu. It's not THAT dangerous. Holy cow. It's more important to make sure the little dude is hydrated.

fadingdawn20 · January 2014

I don't need the flu shot or anyone's "luck" to keep my child from getting sick. I can't help but chuckle every time I hear "I/my LO/someone I know got their flu shot! But they still got the flu. But thank goodness they got the shot or else it would have been a whole lot worse!" Huh? Do people really not hear how utterly ridiculous that sounds?

If you think the flu shot is without risk you are misinformed. Asking questions like "why would you not" and saying "it takes a special kind of crazy to be paranoid about the flu shot" implies that you think there is no risk. I don't CARE if a doctor told you it was completely safe. You keep buying into the fear-mongering all you want. I won't.

Using "the flu virus changes every year" as a reason to get the vaccine makes no sense. There are hundreds of flu strains that are constantly evolving and three (if you're "lucky" enough to get the quadrivalent, four) are included in the vaccine. Oh, and two of those three strains in this year's shot are the exact same as last year.

There are ways to prevent and treat the flu. The flu shot is not one of them. I know this point of view is not necessarily popular, but I honestly am in awe of how many people are still so adamantly behind the flu shot when there is such a huge lack of evidence that it works.

fadingdawn20 · January 2014

LalaMama81 said:

fadingdawn20 said:

There are ways to prevent and treat the flu. The flu shot is not one of them. I know this point of view is not necessarily popular, but I honestly am in awe of how many people are still so adamantly behind the flu shot when there is such a huge lack of evidence that it works.

Please tell me how you prevent the flu?

By strengthening the immune system through probiotics and high amounts of vitamin D, and avoiding grains and sugar in the diet which are inflammatory foods that can damage the gut. Taking one clove of raw garlic a day. And not getting the flu shot.

Obviously, there is no way to guarantee you won't get sick no matter what you do. But those I know who avoid the flu vaccine and take care of themselves properly almost always fully recover and recover quickly. Older adults and young babies included.

KatFCo · January 2014

fadingdawn20 said:

I don't need the flu shot or anyone's "luck" to keep my child from getting sick. I can't help but chuckle every time I hear "I/my LO/someone I know got their flu shot! But they still got the flu. But thank goodness they got the shot or else it would have been a whole lot worse!" Huh? Do people really not hear how utterly ridiculous that sounds? If you think the flu shot is without risk you are misinformed. Asking questions like "why would you not" and saying "it takes a special kind of crazy to be paranoid about the flu shot" implies that you think there is no risk. I don't CARE if a doctor told you it was completely safe. You keep buying into the fear-mongering all you want. I won't. Using "the flu virus changes every year" as a reason to get the vaccine makes no sense. There are hundreds of flu strains that are constantly evolving and three (if you're "lucky" enough to get the quadrivalent, four) are included in the vaccine. Oh, and two of those three strains in this year's shot are the exact same as last year. There are ways to prevent and treat the flu. The flu shot is not one of them. I know this point of view is not necessarily popular, but I honestly am in awe of how many people are still so adamantly behind the flu shot when there is such a huge lack of evidence that it works.

So we're buying into fear-mongering by daring to trust reliable, respectable research? By trying to keep our kids and ourselves from getting a life-threatening illness? There is a ton of evidence out there.

fadingdawn20 · January 2014

If you're truly convinced that the shot helps more than it hurts, I'm not going to try to change your mind. I just want to encourage people who wouldn't think of questioning it to look into it a little more. There's tons of statistics on the CDC's website and accessible medical studies and info out there that you can use to solidify your decision either way.

Something that really bothers me is that the CDC voted to have doctors reccommend flu shots to all pregnant women when there have been zero studies on the safety of the shot for pregnant women and their fetuses. It says so right on the package inserts, but doctors don't have to mention that before telling you to get it. I guess we're just supposed to trust the CDC that getting the shot is safe?

KatFCo · January 2014

My quote attempts are all messing up, but @fadingdawn20 the CDC has done research on the adverse effects of the flu shot in pregnancy and on pregnant women and found none. The spray is not recommended for pregnant women, but even at that, there have been no reports of adverse reactions. There is a ton of research that shows the flu shot is safe and effective. Yes, there are sometimes adverse reactions, but the effectiveness of the shot and the effects of getting the flu hugely outweigh the chances of having a serious adverse reaction.

LimaD · January 2014

You guys are acting like catching the flu is as sure as catching a cold. Just because I don't get my LO the shot doesn't mean she's going to get it, the same way just because you got your LO the shot doesn't mean they won't!
Make up your own mind about what you want to do and stop being such judgmental lunatics to everyone else. Let's all move on to a different conversation now! Holy cow

KatFCo · January 2014

LimaD said:

You guys are acting like catching the flu is as sure as catching a cold. Just because I don't get my LO the shot doesn't mean she's going to get it, the same way just because you got your LO the shot doesn't mean they won't!
Make up your own mind about what you want to do and stop being such judgmental lunatics to everyone else. Let's all move on to a different conversation now! Holy cow

You do realize the flu can be fatal, right? That people every year die or are incapacitated for weeks because of it? And that there's often no good reason to not get the flu shot? To use your analogy of the cold, no, it's not as likely as catching a cold, but for people to act as if the effects of getting the flu are as innocuous as a cold is inconceivable to me.

a550571 · January 2014

I thought these threads serve the purpose of providing helpful advice and support to fellow mothers. I don't believe that attacking others for their choices is helpful or supportive. It's very disappointing reading some of these posts

KatFCo · January 2014

a550571 said:

I thought these threads serve the purpose of providing helpful advice and support to fellow mothers. I don't believe that attacking others for their choices is helpful or supportive. It's very disappointing reading some of these posts

Who attacked? True, some have been somewhat derisive of others' choices, but it's still fairly calm. One of the purposes of these threads is to share points of view, which is what we were doing. Sometimes those points of view are disparate and it's okay to disagree with people. Not everything is an opinion. Some things are factually wrong and sometimes people are misinformed. Discussing different points of view can sometimes change people's perspectives or help others' make up their minds. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. In fact, it's a good thing.

a550571 · January 2014

Nicb13 said:

a550571 said:

I thought these threads serve the purpose of providing helpful advice and support to fellow mothers. I don't believe that attacking others for their choices is helpful or supportive. It's very disappointing reading some of these posts

You must not have ever seen a vaccine discussion on TB. They get heated because people feel very passionate about something that affects themselves and their children such as unvaccinated people.

You're right. I've never seen a vaccination discussion. I'll stick to the fun ones like teething and naptime! lol

Meery82 · January 2014

a550571 said:

Nicb13 said:

a550571 said:

I thought these threads serve the purpose of providing helpful advice and support to fellow mothers. I don't believe that attacking others for their choices is helpful or supportive. It's very disappointing reading some of these posts

You must not have ever seen a vaccine discussion on TB. They get heated because people feel very passionate about something that affects themselves and their children such as unvaccinated people.

You're right. I've never seen a vaccination discussion. I'll stick to the fun ones like teething and naptime! lol

Good luck with life. Apparently it's too hard for you.

LimaD · January 2014

I am not saying that simply disagreeing with my or anyone else's view point is judgmental. But there's a way to share your own views and challenge people's statements in a way that isn't condescending and disrespectful.

Meery82 · January 2014

LimaD said:

I am not saying that simply disagreeing with my or anyone else's view point is judgmental. But there's a way to share your own views and challenge people's statements in a way that isn't condescending and disrespectful.

But calling us judgmental lunatics is cool?

LimaD · January 2014

haha i know, i shouldn't have fought fire with fire by name calling. i'll leave you all to think you're better than those who don't get the flu shot...

a550571 · January 2014

Meery82 said:

a550571 said:

Nicb13 said:

a550571 said:

I thought these threads serve the purpose of providing helpful advice and support to fellow mothers. I don't believe that attacking others for their choices is helpful or supportive. It's very disappointing reading some of these posts

You must not have ever seen a vaccine discussion on TB. They get heated because people feel very passionate about something that affects themselves and their children such as unvaccinated people.

You're right. I've never seen a vaccination discussion. I'll stick to the fun ones like teething and naptime! lol

Good luck with life. Apparently it's too hard for you.

You're clever. I hope your kids grow up to be just as charming as you.

KatFCo · January 2014

LimaD said:

haha i know, i shouldn't have fought fire with fire by name calling. i'll leave you all to think you're better than those who don't get the flu shot...

No, not better. Just better protected against the flu.

Meery82 · January 2014

a550571 said:

Meery82 said:

a550571 said:

Nicb13 said:

a550571 said:

I thought these threads serve the purpose of providing helpful advice and support to fellow mothers. I don't believe that attacking others for their choices is helpful or supportive. It's very disappointing reading some of these posts

You must not have ever seen a vaccine discussion on TB. They get heated because people feel very passionate about something that affects themselves and their children such as unvaccinated people.

You're right. I've never seen a vaccination discussion. I'll stick to the fun ones like teething and naptime! lol

Good luck with life. Apparently it's too hard for you.

You're clever. I hope your kids grow up to be just as charming as you.

Thanks! Were both pretty fabulous.

smc008 · January 2014

Yes we all did. Especially with a husband who travels a lot, a kid in DC, and the recent deaths in our area in an unvaccinated 30 year old and 3 unvaccinated children.

fadingdawn20 · January 2014

So anyway. This thread really went off on a tangent while I was working today!

Someone asked for studies on ways other than the flu shot to treat/prevent the flu. Honestly, it makes me sad that people so desperately want to cling to the lies they've been fed about the flu shot being their most protective option that they actually need peer reviewed studies as evidence that a vitamin provided by sunlight and avoidance of sugar greatly promote health, but ok.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20219962/
https://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/91/5/1255.abstract
https://www.healwithfood.org/commoncold/eating-garlic-prevents-flu-study.php
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/124/2/e172.short
https://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/26/11/1180.abstract

KatFCo said:

My quote attempts are all messing up, but @fadingdawn20 the CDC has done research on the adverse effects of the flu shot in pregnancy and on pregnant women and found none. The spray is not recommended for pregnant women, but even at that, there have been no reports of adverse reactions. There is a ton of research that shows the flu shot is safe and effective. Yes, there are sometimes adverse reactions, but the effectiveness of the shot and the effects of getting the flu hugely outweigh the chances of having a serious adverse reaction.

Please link to the research that shows there are absolutely no adverse effects from the flu shot on pregnant women. Meanwhile, you should read the package inserts for each flu vaccine and you will find that every single one states that safety and effectiveness has NOT BEEN ESTABLISHED for pregnant or nursing women. You can find them here: https://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm

LalaMama81 said:

LimaD said:

You guys are acting like catching the flu is as sure as catching a cold. Just because I don't get my LO the shot doesn't mean she's going to get it, the same way just because you got your LO the shot doesn't mean they won't!
Make up your own mind about what you want to do and stop being such judgmental lunatics to everyone else. Let's all move on to a different conversation now! Holy cow

So, questioning why someone doesn't get the flu shot and debating the merits of said reasons makes me a judgmental lunatic?

It's called a discussion - it's a message board, debate happens, especially w/ more controversial opinions.

I do truly want to know, now, how many that don't get the flu shot have ever had the flu? I haven't had it in at least 15 years and nothing I hear about it makes me want to even think about getting it. Healthy adults out of work for a week or more? Feeling like death? I don't know anyone who has had the flu as an adult that didn't start getting the flu shot the next year.

I have a minor virus right now and am miserable. I'm trying to imagine feeling worse than this for days on end.

I've never had a flu shot. I honestly don't know if I've ever had confirmed influenza because I haven't been to a doctor for any kind of illness since I was in middle school. I'm almost completely certain I had it a couple of months ago though, since I felt like death and had a fever that topped out at 104. It was the sickest I had felt in years, but I got over it in 3 days. It definitely didn't make me want to run out and get a flu shot, but that's probably because I know I would have gotten sick anyway.

Before I got sick, my son had a high fever for 2 days, and then was fine.

KatFCo · January 2014

@fadingdawn20 I'm probably wasting my time, since you seem so convinced, but here is the CDC link about pregnancy and the flu shot: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/qa_vacpregnant.htm#what3 No one is saying the flu shot is the only way to avoid the flu, but since flu deaths and the amount of people getting the flu is connected to who does and doesn't get it, it seems to be a pretty good choice, especially when there is NO good reason not to. Yes, eating healthy can boost the immune system, but healthy people die from the flu every year. Honestly, it makes me sad to see someone so afraid of the medical establishment that they refuse to do all they can to help themselves and their children avoid a potentially deadly illness.

CurlyQ284 · January 2014

You know what would really suck? If the vitamins and chiro treatments didnt work and my baby died from the flu. I would have been 100% able to prevent that from happening and I didnt do it. I couldn't live with myself. My neighbors baby died from it when I was a kid, we've gotten it ever since.

I really dont care what other people do, no judgement on your flu shot stance but we are all vaccinated.

fadingdawn20 · January 2014

That is an extremely weak and inconclusive "study" considering less than 10% of adverse reactions are reported to VAERS. People like you who place their complete faith in the safety of vaccines never even think that an adverse event could be related to a vaccine, so it goes unreported. Also, the most common pregnancy AE that was reported was miscarriage. Again, statements like "there is no good reason not to get the flu shot" means you believe there is no risk involved, which means you're underinformed.

The point is, many statements on the CDC's website are not absolute fact. They love to downplay the dangers of vaccines and hype up the dangers of a disease, including fudging an estimate on the number of deaths caused by the flu. Of course the flu can kill. It's unlikely, but it can kill both the vaccinated and unvaccinated. And it has.

Some have made up their mind and won't even consider any of this, and I accept that. But for people like the OP here, I don't want them believing they're crazy for questioning the flu shot.

KatFCo · January 2014

You know that whole "some people have made up their minds" thing? Goes both ways. I don't put complete faith in vaccines. I make informed decisions based on scientific research and statistical probability. It is more likely that I would get the flu if I didn't get a flu shot. It is more likely that I and my children, as asthmatics, would have severe complications if we did get the flu, and it is less likely that we would have adverse reactions from the shot. Yes, the flu does kill both the vaccinated and unvaccinated, but unvaccinated people get it much more than vaccinated. That is and absolute fact.

fadingdawn20 · January 2014

CurlyQ284 said:
You know what would really suck? If the vitamins and chiro treatments didnt work and my baby died from the flu. I would have been 100% able to prevent that from happening and I didnt do it. I couldn't live with myself. My neighbors baby died from it when I was a kid, we've gotten it ever since.

I really dont care what other people do, no judgement on your flu shot stance but we are all vaccinated.

I'm sorry, but the thinking that anything you do is going to 100% prevent the flu is ignorant.

KatFCo said:
You know that whole "some people have made up their minds" thing? Goes both ways. I don't put complete faith in vaccines. I make informed decisions based on scientific research and statistical probability. It is more likely that I would get the flu if I didn't get a flu shot. It is more likely that I and my children, as asthmatics, would have severe complications if we did get the flu, and it is less likely that we would have adverse reactions from the shot.

Yes, the flu does kill both the vaccinated and unvaccinated, but unvaccinated people get it much more than vaccinated. That is and absolute fact.

The scientific method is about continuous analyzation and questioning of current knowledge and "norms." I've made a decision not to give my family the flu shot after doing a lot of my own research. I'm sure you are fairly informed as well and I understand that you have other risks to consider. Even though I feel strongly that the flu shot is not the best way to prevent the flu, I respect your opinion, I really do!

CurlyQ284 · January 2014

@fadingdawn20, youre right, 100% is inaccurate but it definitely decreases the chance of a flu related death. I already said IDGAF what other people do. Go on with your non-flu vaccinated self.

fadingdawn20 · January 2014

If someone pro-flu vax keeps replying to my posts it's ok. But if I respond back I'm the one beating a dead horse because I have the UO. That's cool and I should have expected that.

fadingdawn20 · January 2014

@Nicb13

True. You can say/think whatever you want. But you're also not the only other person involved in the conversation and there are a lot of spectators. If that weren't the case I would have given up a long time ago.

DawnLilly · January 2014

Nicb13 said:

fadingdawn20 said:

@Nicb13

True. You can say/think whatever you want. But you're also not the only other person involved in the conversation and there are a lot of spectators. If that weren't the case I would have given up a long time ago.

You're right, I'm not the only person involved in the conversation, obviously, but I'm the only one who told you that you are beating a dead horse. Only responding to your post that involves me

And you HAD to respond this last time because you couldn't leave the comment count at 99! That's just a given.

g8trkim · January 2014

LimaD said:

I have a friend who is a pharmacist and has been for years. She does not give the flu vaccine to her own children either. She suggested that unless you consider your child to have high exposure risks (like going to daycare 5 days a week with several children who are all sticking the same toys in their mouth, etc) she wouldn't necessarily recommend the vaccine. I am just very cautious about all of the drugs and vaccines and everything else that we're putting in our kiddos' bodies. I am not anti-immunization either. My DD gets her immunizations, but I space them out. She's in the 30th percentile for weight so if there's a shot that she is supposed to get sometime between 6-18 months, the Dr. will always offer that shot at the 6 month appointment. Since I've done my own research and know that it doesn't NEED to get done at 6 months, I opt to wait until later since she's so little (they get the same dose regardless of size. it's only based on age--which I think is crazy but that's another topic! lol)
Anyway, my point is that I have done some research and asked friends who are pharmacists and I have chosen not to have her get the shot, but take as many other precautions as I can with DD when we are with other kids or out in public.

This is interesting to me. DH is a pharmacist as are many of his friends. They all think it's crazy to skip the flu vaccine. I've heard lengthy conversations between them about the whole thing. About how irresponsible it is, blah blah blah. Your friend certainly has the right to have her own opinions but I promise you she is the minority among pharmacists... and medical doctors for that matter.

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