Spanking- what's your opinion?

TarheelMama202 · January 2014

Recently, we had a play date with my two cousins. One of my cousins has a daughter who is three months older than DS, and the other has a son who is three months younger. At one point during the play date, my cousin's daughter (right at 13 months), crawled over to where the fireplace was. The fireplace was not on, so she wasn't in any danger. Immediately, my cousin slapped her hand, pulled her away, and scolded her.

Honestly, I was in shock. I looked at my other cousin and we were both clearly appalled. In general, I don't believe in using spanking or other physical ways of punishing at all. Honestly, I think a lot of that has to do with my experience as an educator and meeting children who have a lot of different home experiences that have had very clear impacts on them.

In this case with my cousin, I was so in shock that I didn't know what to say.

What would you have done? Do you think spanking or other forms of physical punishment are okay? Am I overreacting?

DublinMama · January 2014

I would have reacted the same way as you. I just don't get spanking. Even hand slapping. Truly, I don't. And I do not condone spanking a baby. My son is going to make mistakes, both accidentally and knowing full well what he's doing is wrong/not acceptable. I fail to see how striking him in any way teaches him anything about his behavior or how to make a different choice. I think you can teach children respect without fear of physical repercussions.

holly321 · January 2014

For or against spanking.... 13 months is way too little , IMO.

Puck1182 · January 2014

I don't think it's something I'd have said something about, but I personally won't spank. I was spanked, but every time it happened I'd go batshit crazy on my mom and start kicking and punching her, and it took me awhile to learn that "hit them" is not an appropriate response to someone saying or doing something you don't like. So in my case, spanking made my behavior infinitely worse and was not an appropriate form of discipline for me, and my mom even agrees in hindsight.

That said, I'm sure there are some kids who won't respond to any other form of discipline, so it may be necessary. But I would give the side eye to anyone who spanks without exhausting all other options.

Drea926 · January 2014

I truly don't see spanking and the like as any effective form of punishment. I feel that it is something parents do out of frustration or not knowing what else to do. It is not something DH and I plan on doing.

I probably would have been pretty shocked. No one in my circles spank so I would have definitely had a reaction. Once when I was babysitting I was downstairs with the little one and the I heard the father bellow to the two older boys who were acting up, "Do you want me to hit you?". I felt sick the whole rest of the night.

kleigh926 · January 2014

DH and I were both spanked as kids. We are planning on using spanking as a form of discipline for our kids. Neither of us feels that it damaged us emotionally or anything like that... we have great relationships with our parents. However, we haven't really discussed it yet because DD is way too young to consider spanking (as is 13 months, IMO).

Honestly, I don't know at what age we will consider using it. I do know that I believe it should only be used as a last resort or for a serious infraction. And I do believe that it works, not for every kid, but I guess we'd cross that bridge when we came to it. Just a warning of a spanking was enough to make me stop and really think about if what I was planning to do was worth it (and it wasn't because I was terrified of my parents).

Rosebean · January 2014

I just don't understand spanking a little that you can't reason with. I don't think we have decided if we are going to spank or not. The idea of spanking my kid makes me sick to my stomach, but part of me worries that he is really going to press my buttons one day and I may do it just out of frustration. Which is totally the wrong circumstance to spank under. And I think this is my fear, so therefore I am reluctant to make a final decision on it (doesn't that sound stupid- but I am just being honest here). But at this age, I don't think they have any clue. The fact that they can be crying and you can distract them by holding up a water bottle to me means they don't have the long term memory to know what is dangerous for them or not. Every day, multiple times a day, I catch my son putting his hands in the dog bowl. And each time, I say "ah ah ah, mama says don't touch" and I move him somewhere else. If he knew it wasn't allowed, then why would he keep going there? He doesn't. And somedays all I need is my voice and somedays I need to move him... But I don't think we would even consider spanking until you get to a place with them where you can explain the "why" behind the punishment and they would understand it. And to boot, if I did administer it, I would rather send them to their room while I calm down enough to administer it. Half the time, just sending them to their rooms while you "think" on their punishment is the punishment because time drags on as they sit there worrying what is coming to them. Honestly, I don't think we will spank, but I just thought I would share the portions of my thoughts if we do.

wifeofadam · January 2014

13 months is too young for a spanking.

Yes, I have spanked. It isn't the first form of discipline that I turn to for my children, but I have used it as a last resort. I have found that at different stages of their lives they have required different forms of discipline - at some stages timeouts work well and at others they do nothing. I'm finding that the older they get, they respond best to having privileges taken away over anything else. And one of my kids has never needed a spanking because she responds so well to a timeout or just knowing that you are disappointed in her behavior.

I don't judge anyone else's disciplining methods. I've learned that every kid is different and requires different things to behave.

OK, maybe I judge a little, but only if you're using bribery to get them to behave or not even trying to discipline at all

tamarar5 · January 2014

Like +adamwife+ I have used spanking. But I completely agree that 13 months is too young to understand. To be honest, other than the outlet incident I mentioned in another thread (a single swat on a cloth diaper meant to scare but not hurt- and backfired) it has been months since we spanked dd(6yrs). The last time she was spanked, she had all out kicked me in the stomach at nine months pregnant. She knew full well not to, it was not an accident, she did it to be mean and intentionally hurt. Since then, the meat mention of a speaking is more than enough deterrent to whatever issue is happening.

We reserve speaking for only the worst offenders that either cause real potsy l physical harm — for example, when we were kids, one of my cousin's decided to chase his older brother with a knife. Obviously that type of behavior needs a swift response.

I don't feel that spanking is right for everyone! A few people have mentioned either being overly punished or fear that they might react out of frustration or anger. Only we know our own limits and abilities.

MBush4 · January 2014

I'm not a fan of spanking, but discussing it the other night with DH we will use it if no other form of punishment works, but even then, it's as a last resort. Different things work for different kids. 13m is WAAAY too young in my opinion. Shoot, 4 and 5 years old still seems super super young.

Poppy523 · January 2014

I believe that hitting is a learned behavior and that the first place children learn it is from their parents using it on each other or on them. For that reason, and the fact that I am not comfortable with it in our home I do not plan to use it, but I also do not judge others who use it. I know there have been times when DD has scared me so much that I wanted to smack her hand to make sure she would never do something again (like licking an outlet, crawing towards the fire or sucking on a dogbone...haha), but I have not done so and do not plan to do so.

DublinMama · January 2014

I would much rather offer my child an incentive for making good choices than get physical with him for not doing so. But like @tarheelmama202 mentioned, that might be my public school teacher showing. In my classroom, positive reinforcement almost always works 10 times better than negative consequences (obviously I don't hit them, so that's not what I mean by negative).

However, that is not to say that I will offer to buy my kid something if he behaves in the store. I expect him to behave in the store without incident or reward. But after showing such responsibility/good decision making repeatedly (both in the store per se, and in other instances), I think that should get recognized. If he can't show that kind of responsibility, I believe in logical, connected consequences.

PhieryBFly · January 2014

Spanking just seems hypocritical to me at times (not always). I just get a vision in my mind of a mom saying, "We don't hit people! Come here for your spanking."

SidraJedi · January 2014

DC2London said:
My thoughts on the matter are biased because corporal punishment was used inappropriately with me as a child, buuuuuuuut I do not plan to spank. I do not plan to use physical consequences of any kind. I don't judge those who do, but my experience with spanking and slapping was not that it was effective in positively changing my behavior as a child, so I don't feel comfortable with it in my family.

This.

musicalmama5 · January 2014

I am 100% against it. So is DH.

wifeofadam · January 2014

expatmama said:

Like Dublinmama, we encourage and incentivize good behavior -- (something which +adamwife+ may in some cases see as a bribe)

No. I think there is a difference between offering incentives and bribery - it's being proactive versus reactive. We offer incentives for good behavior. For example, in a few hours I will pack my kids up and head to the grocery store. Before we go in I always have a chat in the car and tell them what I expect of them in the store and what their reward will be for good behavior. Usually the reward is to pick out their favorite treat while shopping or to get to play a certain game when they get home. They know I mean business and if they don't behave, the treats will be put back on the shelf. That to me is clearly outlining an expectation and offering an incentive.

But that's different than watching your child have a tantrum in the middle of the store and bribing them to shut up. I judge that. Although I probably shouldn't judge because you never know what kind of day the mom and kid are having...

singingsea · January 2014

Both my brother and I were spanked. Neither of us are serial killers or anything but it wasn't an effective form of discipline

We'd just smile at our parents and do whatever it was that got us in trouble again. I don't buy the whole it's psychologically damaging to your kids. The fact is it just doesn't work.

I'm going the route of time outs and other forms of discipline.

singingsea · January 2014

Let me edit the above statement: for my brother and I it wasn't psychologically damaging.

ella.mabel · January 2014

I would have been appalled if I'd seen a 13 month old being spanked/slapped/whatever. I wouldn't be surprised if they start seeing the child start hitting their friends. It's teaching them that violence is the way to solve problems. I feel strongly that children need to see their parents hands as something that delivers comfort, not pain.

meechellebelle · January 2014

I don't know if we will do it but while 14 months is young it may have been her way of teaching her child that fireplaces are hot and dangerous. We have radiators and if the boys try going near them whether they're on or off we have to tell them no in loud voices to try and make them understand that it could hurt them.

jdilorenzo · January 2014

I agree that 13 months is too young. I was never spanked or hit and I don't plan on spanking my kids. I wasn't yelled at either. My mom has the patience of a saint. I hope to be like that with my kids. I am trying. My mom always explained why we couldn't do things and even now if I do something wrong I feel really bad about it.
To each their own. I try not to judge bc as a first time mom I have learned so much and how hard it is to be a mom.

TarheelMama202 · January 2014

I am curious-- this is in no way to be rude--those who have chosen to spank, can your explain why you believe in it? I would just like to hear different perspectives. Was it because you were spanked as a child, is it something you believe in as a part of your religion, etc?

wifeofadam · January 2014

TarheelMama202 said:

I am curious-- this is in no way to be rude--those who have chosen to spank, can your explain why you believe in it? I would just like to hear different perspectives. Was it because you were spanked as a child, is it something you believe in as a part of your religion, etc?

OK. I'll bite.

It's not that I "believe" in spanking, it's just that I accept it as a valid disciplinary tool to add to my arsenal of "weapons" (probably a bad word choice - how about arsenal of methods. lol). As I mentioned above, every child is different. I have one child who doesn't respond to time out. It does nothing for him. (DC and I were talking about this yesterday - I suspect SPD with this child.) Anyways, I could put him in and out of time out ten times in an afternoon for the same thing and it doesn't sink in. Now, at almost five, we're at a point where I can reason with him and take away privileges to change behavior, but there was a time when he was younger (maybe 3) where that wasn't the case. I took out every book from the library on discipline I could find. We tried different methods and had some small luck with some (1-2-3 Magic, for example), but overall, he just needed harsher punishment in order to behave. I could spend all afternoon trying to deal with his behavior using positive reinforcement or timeout or whatever other "gentle" type of discipline I could think of, or I could give him a calm, controlled spanking and the behavior would end and we could move on with our day. For that child it worked wonders.

Like I said above, I have another child who has never needed a spanking because she responds well to other, more gentle, methods. This is why I don't judge parents for how they choose to discipline - every kid is different.

I was also mentioning in another thread with DC yesterday how DS2 was starting to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. He was spending so much time in time-outs that he was starting to think, "Well, since I'm always getting in trouble, I must be a bad kid, therefore I'll just play the role of the bad kid." It was a very nasty cycle and I worried about what it was doing to him. Because of that, I tried to limit the number of punishments he was receiving in a day and by spanking I could eliminate behavior much more quickly, get it over with, and he wasn't spending all day in time-out.

It isn't the first thing I jump to and I would never spank for silly, little reasons. Every time I have spanked one of my children it has been for what I feel is a valid reason - they were in danger of hurting themselves or someone else. Kid runs out in the road - spanking. Kid climbs our fence in the backyard (after knowing it is against the rules) - spanking. Kid maliciously does something that injures another sibling - spanking. Mama isn't messing around with that stuff because they know better (or NEED to learn better). But if my kid is simply mouthing off or throwing a tantrum, I would never spank unless I've been dealing with the behavior all day and have exhausted all other options.

Rosebean · January 2014

This whole thread is bringing up childhood memories of when I was spanked... Especially the very last time I had ever been threatened a spanking. My mom would always threaten me that if I squirmed or tried to get away, she would spank me longer and harder. One day I called her bluff. I remember she said to my dad "Hold her, Tony" and my dad said "I told you the day she was too big for you to hold her down is the day she was too old for spankings". And of course, in my mind I was like "really? Couldn't I have known this sooner! I could have avoided so many more spankings!" Haha! Oh well!

Rynleigh · January 2014

Spanking is not and is never OK.

Spanking is not neutral.

Saying "I was spanked and I came away from it just fine" is not evidence that you are fine. It means that you came way from it with the same mentality that the majority of other victims of abuse have - excusing the abuse because you have compassion for your abuser. That does not mean that the person who provided the abuse is or was a bad person - but when you know better, you do better.

Hitting a child does not instill respect, it instills fear. It does not teach proper behaviour, it teaches that inflicting pain on weaker or smaller living beings is an appropriate way to control the behaviour of others. If you "spanked" an adult with Alzheimer's disease for their behaviour, you would be charged with assault. The same should absolutely and completely be true of spanking a child. Period.

Spanking is immoral and it is wrong.

wifeofadam · January 2014

This thread is devolving dangerously close to things like comparing circumcision to genital mutilation, so it's my time to bow out...

kleigh926 · January 2014

@rynleigh, if that's how you want to look at it for your own children, fine. I do not share the opinion that it's abusive, immoral, or wrong. I believe there are right and wrong ways to do it. Honestly, the idea that I was abused because I was spanked a few times is laughable to me. I have actually been abused. Me being spanked was absolutely not abuse.

Drea926 · January 2014

I think spanking is really an issue that draws up some heavy emotions for a lot of people so it's natural for so many strong reactions.

Personally I'm not a fan of hitting children, the elderly or anyone really. Except maybe my husband making a dirty remark - then he might get a jab to the ribs from me. ;-)

mishka29 · January 2014

I dont actually remember ever being spanked but im sure i was. Probably a lot of those grab you by one arm and pull you away while the other hand is giving you a bum smack. For us it was really the big threat of the wooden spoon (smacked across the back of the hand). I dont think i ever got hit with it, the threat was enough. Lol I dont think we will be spanking but i can imagine there may be a few quicks smacks on the bum over the years. Hopefully time outs will be successful.

Dannysmama · January 2014

I was spanked by my father once, when I was 2 or 3. I guess I turned around and gave him this look like, "Daddy, how could you do that to me?" and he said it broke his heart. So he never hit me or my brother again.

He, however, developed this thing he called the Evil Eye where he'd stare us down and raise one eyebrow. My mom, on the other hand, tried to discipline me when she ran out of other options (I was your typical brat and smart enough to really push her buttons!). One look from my dad was infinitely more effective than any smack from my mom because when we got the Evil Eye, we knew we were in trouble, and in trouble meant we were losing something (TV, toys etc).

I love both my parents dearly, but I think the difference in what was effective for me was understanding the consequence of my actions. I can't remember who said it, but I do agree it seems "kids today" get free passes and get away with too much because parents are not effective disciplinarians.

As an example, we have a house on a lake. My cousins and I were not allowed to go in the water without adult supervision. I have distinct memories of playing on the beach while my mom and aunt had coffee upstairs and desperately wanting to jump in. After DS was born, I was talking to my mom about this and asked if she ever worried about us going in and she said no. When pressed further, she explained that she was confidant that we understood that punishment for breaking this rule would be so severe that it kept us in line. We probably would have lost swimming privileges for the summer or something like that. To me, that is a great anecdote for how we will parent, at least when DS is old enough to understand actions have consequences.

Anyway, I've been following this threat and thinking about this. We won't spank DS period, but we will discipline with consequences - set rules and enforce the punishment. Discipline is only effective if the parents follow through.

tamarar5 · January 2014

So eloquently put, @Dannysmama.

ally2011 · January 2014

Rynleigh said:

Spanking is not and is never OK.

Spanking is not neutral.

Saying "I was spanked and I came away from it just fine" is not evidence that you are fine. It means that you came way from it with the same mentality that the majority of other victims of abuse have - excusing the abuse because you have compassion for your abuser. That does not mean that the person who provided the abuse is or was a bad person - but when you know better, you do better.

Hitting a child does not instill respect, it instills fear. It does not teach proper behaviour, it teaches that inflicting pain on weaker or smaller living beings is an appropriate way to control the behaviour of others. If you "spanked" an adult with Alzheimer's disease for their behaviour, you would be charged with assault. The same should absolutely and completely be true of spanking a child. Period.

Spanking is immoral and it is wrong.

Before responding, I want to add the disclaimer that I do not plan to spank. I was occasionally spanked, my DH was occasionally spanked, but it is not something we plan to use.

That said, I think these comments are over the top. I understand from your other posts that you have issues with your mother and some of this strong reaction may stem from your past. But nevertheless, I think it is unfair to accuse a fellow poster of child abuse and insinuating that they should be behind bars. There are parents who should be, adamwife is clearly not one of them. I believe she laid out perfectly well her rationale for why spanking is used as a last resort in very specific circumstances within her family. The circumstances she outlined are scenarios in which the child clearly knows the behavior is wrong, and continues to do it anyway despite other punishment methods being exhausted. Further, she shared that these are mostly scenarios in which the child or another child is in danger.

Now, all of that may not fly with you, and that is fine. You can parent however you want. But to imply that someone should be jailed because they thoughtfully chose to employ a different strategy than you is a bit narrow minded frankly. There are children who are abused. Your comments severely undermine those cases.

Lastly, your comparison is invalid. The Alzheimer's patient does not know what he or she is doing is right or wrong, and moreover, as an adult they are not under the authority of anyone else. The child from adamwife's example absolutely does know what he or she is doing is wrong and they have ignored all other methods of punishment.

Rynleigh · January 2014

There is a difference between stating that something should be an offense worthy of being charged as assault and stating that an individual belongs in prison. That is a jump. If you want to excuse hitting someone because they know what they are doing is wrong, then we can use a healthy adult as the example if you like - it is STILL assault to hit someone simply because you do not like their behaviour. My comments were not directed at any individual. They were blunt statements regarding the reality that hitting a child is hitting a child and that the act of hitting a child is never excusable, no matter whether you want to call it a parenting choice or not, and no matter how many otherwise good people have practiced it.

Rynleigh · January 2014

That depends on the case and the region... assault can result in anything from prison time (for major offenses, you're talking intentional child abuse, there, not an occasional swat to the bum), to parole, to classes, to community service, to loss of a weapon, to a simple fine.

ETA improper word choice

Rynleigh · January 2014

No, I am not. I am saying that spanking should be treated the same as hitting an adult human being. If you smacked an adult because you did not like their behaviour, you may be charged and sentenced to anger management courses and a fine. If you lock an adult up and ritually abuse them as some horrible people who intentionally abuse their children do, you go to prison (as those parents would, as well). It is absurd that we make a special protected pocket of "Oh but this one singular form of assault against kids is OK, because that's what we've always done". That is not OK. That is compartmentalizing and it is wrong.

Rynleigh · January 2014

I also retract the use of the word legitimate - the appropriate word would have been intentional.

ally2011 · January 2014

As already mentioned in my response, a healthy adult is not under the authority of anyone else so that is still not the same thing. But for the record, there are physical consequences to behavior as an adult. For example, being handcuffed and held in a cell when arrested. If you do that to someone in civilian life, it is a crime and you can be charged.

Your response came after adamwife's so I assumed it was somewhat in response to that since everyone else seemed mostly against.

Again, I am not in favor of spanking either for many reasons. But I do not go so far as to say that I think people cannot be good parents if they occasionally use it as a discipline method and I surely will not undermine real abuse victims by claiming that it rises to the level of child abuse. To be clear, I am talking about when it is employed as outlined in adamwife's post, not in every possible scenario.

Rynleigh · January 2014

Yes, handcuffed and arrested because you are committing a crime. How many children who are spanked are guilty of committing a crime? Something that would legally permit police officers to handcuff or arrest them?

I did not read anyone else's comments beyond the OP when I commented.

Drea926 · January 2014

I thought we beat this to death already?

Pun intended.

Rynleigh · January 2014

I am not accusing anyone in this thread of purposefully trying to abuse their children. I am simply calling spanking what it is. It is assault to the same degree that hitting any other human being would be - or even hitting an animal would be. If more people were willing to stand up and admit that there is no excuse for it, that it is no different from hitting any other person, there would be far less tolerance for it, and therefore fewer people defaulting to it as a means of consequence, and the choice to search for reasons to defend it would quickly decay and subside. It's really not a parenting tactic that is deserving of defense. That doesn't make parents who employ it bad parents. It just means that we don't continue letting good parents think that it is OK when it is not OK. We don't accuse people of being bad parents for not knowing that it's safest to keep their child rear facing until at least 2yrs old, we just tell them that it is safest. We don't tell them that they are bad parents for putting infant seats on the top of shopping carts, we tell them it isn't safe. We don't tell people that giving a baby aspirin makes them a bad parent, we tell them it can cause Reyes syndrome and is dangerous. People who occasionally spank are not bad people - but the practice is not OK.

ally2011 · January 2014

The person disobeyed the laws of society. The child disobeyed the laws of the parents.

Again, just to stay clear, I am talking about last resort stuff here for big time offenses involving endangerment of the child or others. Not willy nilly spanking as an everyday discipline method.

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