Play Heels for pre school aged girls

sking72 · December 2013

Rogue237: Yes, I didn't mean for it to come off as you need heels to look professional, that's just one of the reasons I really like them. And I am very jealous of you ladies wearing flats, they kill my feet and I cannot find for the life of me a pair that look good on me! But I do know that they do make professional flats and that heels are not what is going to make or break your professional ensemble.

LalaMama81: reading Cinderella ate my daughter changed my look on disney's marketing schemes, BUT my girl is still going to watch the movies with me and we are definitely going to go to disney. I know I won't avoid the princess stuff most likely, but I like being more aware of the ideas that have gone into them. Definitely agree that princesses alone are not the only influence on how little girls turn out!

Andrewsgal · December 2013

I hate this crap. It always comes up and I think people way over think it. I read Cinderella ate my daughter and hated it. It was a classic example of over thinking things. I will stay active in my kids lives. I will influence them way more than toys and movies. I will not let crap parent my kids I will do it. So far I have a seven year old who loves sparkles and pink. She is also a born leader and wants to be president of the United States when she grows up. Three years ago she wanted to be a princess. But how could that be? How can I raise a strong independent smart girl while thoroughly engrossed in the princess culture? Because I am raising her, I am setting examples. The pink high heals are for fun, I am teaching her real life. The two are not in anyway mutually exclusive.

fourthnlast · December 2013

Never even thought of it before, my daughter LOVED playing dress up when she was about 2-4 and had tons of play heels that she would wear all through the house. She is still a shoe lover (she's almost 9 now).

AcaAwkward · December 2013

LalaMama81 said:

AcaAwkward said:

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Yes, they symbolize something entirely different, but I think a constant barrage of Disney Princess Crap can be just as detrimental to a girl's development as a continual stream of violent video games can be to a boy's. Detrimental in completely different ways, sure! But detrimental nonetheless.

Again, this is getting kind of academic. IRL, I think it's all about moderation + your particular kid + the dialog you keep open with your particular kid and how you address and guide these particular interests.

ETA: Separation. Sigh. I wish it was easier to trim the quote trees on mobile.
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That I can agree with. It is an interesting topic for sure. I actually need to finish reading Cinderella are my daughter, I did like it but also got annoyed with it. I feel like we expose our daughters to many different things and yes, Disney princesses are one of them. But as long as it's only one influence along with their blocks, bikes, snap circuits, science experiments, baby dolls, board hands, etc. they'll probably be okay.

So yea, we're totally going to Disney next year where they'll meet their fave princess but this past year they toured London and the Irish countryside. Well-rounded is the goal.

My biggest takeaway from the book is just how skewed the toy industry has become towards pink and princess and girly (I agree some parts were over-the-top annoying as far as they apply practically -- but I am a big sociology nerd so I appreciated those ideas in a philosophical soapboxy sense!).

I grew up loving Disney movies and pretending to be Ariel at the swimming pool and dressing up in my cousin's old dance costumes / flower girl dresses. I hope DD loves those things too! But I also didn't walk into Toys R Us as a 5 year old only to be met with aisle upon aisle of DISNEY PRINCESS EVERYTHING. Taking DD through the Target toy section is like baptism by plastic sparkles. My parents just didn't have to deal with that.

There are so many cool unisex toys and toys for girls that aren't encrusted in rhinestones (and "boy" toys for girls, too...don't even want to get into that debate - everyone can play with everything!), but I think parents have to search harder for them. And be more watchful about media consumption and more cognizant about moderation yada yada yada.

ETA; I DID IT! Mobile Tree Trimming Domination! Cookies for everyone!

Andrewsgal · December 2013

But lets say your house does look like a pink load of crap blew up. I still don't think this influences girls as much as people think. Then again I am a behaviorist so my beliefs might be different. I still believe I have way more influence on my kids than a toy aisle at target even if we owned the whole damn aisle. Like I said Dd wanted to be a princess for three years in a row for Halloween, she also wanted to be one when she grew up. Now she wants to be a vet and asked for a microscope and snap circuits for Christmas. I am raising my child, not toys me.

sking72 · December 2013

I know the reason I am overthinking these things and have been concerned with having a girl is I know so many people suffering with ED, extreme low self esteem, and different mental concerns that are inflated by the idea of what beauty and success as a woman means. While I know I will have a great influence on my daughter by how I raise her and how I talk to her, I know there are some things that are beyond a mother's control, and I would like to think about how I might deal with those things.

Andrewsgal · December 2013

I do think there are things beyond a mothers control I don't believe pink plastic heals at three are as influential as people like to believe. I think people get so caught up in this gender and anti pink crap that they try to pretend things have way more influence than they do.

AcaAwkward · December 2013

Didn't say I was surprised, just said it was annoying.

Serenla · December 2013

@Rogue237 7? They are 7 and having those issues? That makes me want to cry.
FWIW I also was a tom-boy I didn't have dress heels or anything like that and I grew up pretty peachy and confident until I started to do some modeling in my teens, that wrecked my confidence and self-esteem right quick and it steam rolled my sister.
Now I don't wear heels or makeup and it suits me so much better.

Andrewsgal · December 2013

Love this article about it https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/momma-data/201201/occupying-the-toy-aisle-one-pink-lego-time

especially this part Toys are a scapegoat anyhow. Mere symbols of our own beliefs. Our hopes, our fears, our lost dreams. Children aren't always so constrained by those set of concerns or even reality. Every three year-old knows a princess hair brush is a rocket ship as easily as a Hot Wheel is a baby brother crying for his momma. I'm no friend of Barbie but like the new Lego Friends, at least she's easy to see and counter. Gee, how fast do you think she can run in those heels?

Rogue237 · December 2013

I agree that how you're raising your kids means way more than what they're into. How you raise them also dictates what they're into a bit. Like I said, my mom was a tomboy and i had an older brother. I was into his He-Man and She-Ra and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and comic books. By the time I got into school and saw what girls my age were playing with, I wasn't interested in "girly stuff". Someone bought me a Barbie once and, according to my mom, I later that day said to her "I don't have to play with this, right, mom?" I'm hoping my daughter will be the same - not because I think pink and sparkly is harmful to a girl's psyche - thought I think it CAN be limiting to them, if you let it, but because I want us to have things in common and I want to share what I enjoyed as a child. If she ends up being obsessed with pink and dresses, I will be a little lost, but then my main job will be to keep her grounded in knowing that that's not the only way and that stuff doesn't mean you aren't as strong as a boy. As Aca said, it just sucks that there is such a clear definition between "boy" and "girl" toys. You can see it in any toy section and I think it can make kids feel alienated if they don't like what they're "supposed" to.

Andrewsgal · December 2013

Eh my seven year old has no problem and does not feel alienated by "boy toys" I think especially if you don't have older children you believe what you read. I think when you are actually raising kids and see what specifically has influence your opinion might change. Yes I just pulled the wait until you have older kids card.

Rogue237 · December 2013

@Serenla - 7!!!! Two separate friends have daughters that think they have "bellies" and need to go on a diet because the girls in magazines and TV have flat stomachs. Their moms have had plenty of conversations with them about how 'we don't diet, we eat healthy' and 'you will still stretch out, your body is perfect as it is', and neither friend would ever talk about dieting in front of the girls, either. It seems to be coming from their school friends.

ETA - and by girls in magazines and TV, I mean age appropriate magazines and shows/commercials, not mom's stuff.

rlmanning · December 2013

Andrewsgal said:

I hate this crap. It always comes up and I think people way over think it. I read Cinderella ate my daughter and hated it. It was a classic example of over thinking things. I will stay active in my kids lives. I will influence them way more than toys and movies. I will not let crap parent my kids I will do it. So far I have a seven year old who loves sparkles and pink. She is also a born leader and wants to be president of the United States when she grows up. Three years ago she wanted to be a princess. But how could that be? How can I raise a strong independent smart girl while thoroughly engrossed in the princess culture? Because I am raising her, I am setting examples. The pink high heals are for fun, I am teaching her real life. The two are not in anyway mutually exclusive.

Agree 100%!!

Andrewsgal · December 2013

Rogue237 said:

@Serenla - 7!!!! Two separate friends have daughters that think they have "bellies" and need to go on a diet because the girls in magazines and TV have flat stomachs. Their moms have had plenty of conversations with them about how 'we don't diet, we eat healthy' and 'you will still stretch out, your body is perfect as it is', and neither friend would ever talk about dieting in front of the girls, either. It seems to be coming from their school friends.

I don't buy it. Research tells us body images in girls this young come from home the majority of the time. I don't believe these are not coming from home. I have worked in schools and am in DDs school a lot and this is just not something that comes up, it just doesn't. Not at 7 at least. I would put money of the fact these girls are getting this from home.

Andrewsgal · December 2013

Oh and I want to add. I do know 7 year olds who have body image issues but they are the kids that e mom is always on a diet. She may not say she is fat or even announce her diets, but kids are quick.

AcaAwkward · December 2013

I completely agree that parents need to parent and not toys / media / etc...a point I stated (several times?) above. But I'm also not going to discount the affects of outside influences, especially as my kids get older. Maybe this has a lot to do with my own background (amazing, supportive parents who emphasized all the right things when I was growing up yet I somehow still ended up with some fucked up ideas about body images and several years of therapy bills) or my particular area of study (sociology FTW), but I think there are tons of factors outside of our nuclear family that influence our way of thinking, our self-worth, and who we become. While my kids are little, I can control those facts to an extent (if not their existence than certainly their quantity in our lives).

It seems to me some of y'all are taking "I'm not crazy about tons of pink shit or play high heels" to mean "I intend to be a complete hippie tyrant"... I don't think anyone is saying that.

And, uh, as far as the "wait until you have older children" comments go, while they very well ring true in the future, they are still a wholly obnoxious way to state your opinion.

Rogue237 · December 2013

Andrewsgal said:

Rogue237 said:

@Serenla - 7!!!! Two separate friends have daughters that think they have "bellies" and need to go on a diet because the girls in magazines and TV have flat stomachs. Their moms have had plenty of conversations with them about how 'we don't diet, we eat healthy' and 'you will still stretch out, your body is perfect as it is', and neither friend would ever talk about dieting in front of the girls, either. It seems to be coming from their school friends.

I don't buy it. Research tells us body images in girls this young come from home the majority of the time. I don't believe these are not coming from home. I have worked in schools and am in DDs school a lot and this is just not something that comes up, it just doesn't. Not at 7 at least. I would put money of the fact these girls are getting this from home.

I think I know my own friends pretty well. And one, in particular, is a super tomboy herself. She doesn't have any women's magazines and she wears a baggy t-shirt, jeans and a baseball cap to work every day. It's definitely not coming from home.

Rogue237 · December 2013

Andrewsgal said:

Oh and I want to add. I do know 7 year olds who have body image issues but they are the kids that e mom is always on a diet. She may not say she is fat or even announce her diets, but kids are quick.

Yeah, neither of them are diet people and neither are remotely overweight.

nikki912 · December 2013

I probably won't buy anything purposefully marketed towards girls that already have a product on the market unless she specifically asked for it. For example nerf has come out with a girl line of guns and they are pink and purple with names like "the heartbreaker." That just pisses me off.

As far as bathing suits- for convenience sake we will absolutely do two pieces on girls. Since I'm pretty fair the top will most likely be a swim shirt but only to protect her skin. If she were of a darker skin tone I would find no reason to put a top on her.

No problem with dress up stuff but probably won't buy any unless she asks.

I'm strongly opposed to gender stereotypes. I will work hard for my children to feel comfortable playing with a wide variety of toys. My son asked for a baby doll and I made sure that it was the next gift he got. I'm well aware that some girls will only want to play with "girl things" but that doesn't mean I have I enforce te stereotype and fill her room with pink and fills or my boy room with cars and trucks.

It really is tough, but gender stereotyping helps no one.

deidremaria · December 2013

Andrewsgal said:

I hate this crap. It always comes up and I think people way over think it. I read Cinderella ate my daughter and hated it. It was a classic example of over thinking things. I will stay active in my kids lives. I will influence them way more than toys and movies. I will not let crap parent my kids I will do it. So far I have a seven year old who loves sparkles and pink. She is also a born leader and wants to be president of the United States when she grows up. Three years ago she wanted to be a princess. But how could that be? How can I raise a strong independent smart girl while thoroughly engrossed in the princess culture? Because I am raising her, I am setting examples. The pink high heals are for fun, I am teaching her real life. The two are not in anyway mutually exclusive.

I couldn't agree more.

KatieGummow · December 2013

I say it is up to the parents! If you feel comfortable with it, then do it. If you don't feel comfortable, then don't.

People will be judging you regardless, so just do what you feel is best for your child.

I don't think it is a big deal, because I don't think it will change your daughters view. I didn't have play heels (it didn't stop me from wearing my moms heels, and dresses, and everything else), and I used to stuff my shirt to give myself boobs.

Rogue237 · December 2013

jellysparkles said:

Andrewsgal said:

Rogue237 said:

@Serenla - 7!!!! Two separate friends have daughters that think they have "bellies" and need to go on a diet because the girls in magazines and TV have flat stomachs. Their moms have had plenty of conversations with them about how 'we don't diet, we eat healthy' and 'you will still stretch out, your body is perfect as it is', and neither friend would ever talk about dieting in front of the girls, either. It seems to be coming from their school friends.

I don't buy it. Research tells us body images in girls this young come from home the majority of the time. I don't believe these are not coming from home. I have worked in schools and am in DDs school a lot and this is just not something that comes up, it just doesn't. Not at 7 at least. I would put money of the fact these girls are getting this from home.

I think I know my own friends pretty well. And one, in particular, is a super tomboy herself. She doesn't have any women's magazines and she wears a baggy t-shirt, jeans and a baseball cap to work every day. It's definitely not coming from home.
I think you're both probably correct in a way, in that it doesn't have to come from those girls' homes specifically, but in the homes of other children who bring it to school. It doesn't originate in any child, generally, but it can be passed from a third-party child who got 'infected' at home.

Totally @jellysparkles - which is my point that there are some outside influences and unfortunately you can't control everyone else's parenting type.

Andrewsgal · December 2013

AcaAwkward said:

I completely agree that parents need to parent and not toys / media / etc...a point I stated (several times?) above. But I'm also not going to discount the affects of outside influences, especially as my kids get older. Maybe this has a lot to do with my own background (amazing, supportive parents who emphasized all the right things when I was growing up yet I somehow still ended up with some fucked up ideas about body images and several years of therapy bills) or my particular area of study (sociology FTW), but I think there are tons of factors outside of our nuclear family that influence our way of thinking, our self-worth, and who we become. While my kids are little, I can control those facts to an extent (if not their existence than certainly their quantity in our lives). It seems to me some of y'all are taking "I'm not crazy about tons of pink shit or play high heels" to mean "I intend to be a complete hippie tyrant"... I don't think anyone is saying that. And, uh, as far as the "wait until you have older children" comments go, while they very well ring true in the future, they are still a wholly obnoxious way to state your opinion.

I a, sorry you find it obnoxious. I was the best parent before I had kids. I think you have a sociology background and me having a behaviorist background does color our opinion of the matter. FWIW I was anti Barbie before I had kids, DD got one for a gift at 4 and loved it so fine I bought her a few more. Now at 7 she is in a science phase so the majority of her christmas presents are STEM based. I think as long as I set a good example of a strong independent woman and follow her lead she will be just fine. I will admit I push her more towards sports than dance and Cheerleading but that is because I believe at a young age these activities are too looks centered. She still does take a dance class though while swimming and playing basketball. I would be concerned if all she wanted for Christmas was shoes and clothes, but that is so not who DH and I are as people, and I truly believe that has more influence than the toy aisle at target.

Serenla · December 2013

KatieGummow said:
I say it is up to the parents! If you feel comfortable with it, then do it. If you don't feel comfortable, then don't. People will be judging you regardless, so just do what you feel is best for your child.

.

Agreed.

J&NL · December 2013

I personally wouldn't buy them for DD and I can't help but cringe when I see any young girl wearing heels, even if they're only 1/2" heels. Plus, they're super annoying on wood floors.

buffyjsa · December 2013

I almost never wear heels, so I'm hoping to avoid this being an issue when our little girl is born (she will be our first). Same goes for make up - my idea of make up is mascara and lipstick. I didn't think about it before this, but I think this thread will prompt a conversation between myself and my husband tonight. I am totally against "sex-ifying" young girls. I would prefer her to wear flats, no make up (except nail polish), and am not particularly a fan of dresses (someone was entirely a tomboy growing up), but I will be open to discussing these subjects with her when she's old enough to put together a logical argument for why she should have these things.

Serenla · December 2013

LalaMama81 said:

Serenla said:

KatieGummow said:
I say it is up to the parents! If you feel comfortable with it, then do it. If you don't feel comfortable, then don't. People will be judging you regardless, so just do what you feel is best for your child.

.
Agreed.

This is what people do. It's also okay to discuss, debate and disagree.

Andrewsgal · December 2013

Jelly I so agree I can't control other people's parenting, but this is why is it so important to have conversations about looks from an early age. DD and I talk often and a lot about everyone being built differently and everyone being the same inside. I have a child that is 7 but the average height for a 10 year old. While this has been very difficult in some ways in others it has been a huge blessing in keeping the lines about our bodies and body issues open in our lives.

alysemci · December 2013

Everything andrewsgal said.

Also, if my daughter is into shit like that, she can go for it and make her own decisions. If she's not and goes a totally different direction, that's cool too. She's her own person and I would never want to influence my children to like or dislike things based on opinions I've formulated. This applies to personal taste issues, obviously I will try to influence my child of any sex to be good, upstanding members of society but other than that, they can choose for themselves what they like and don't like.

Andrewsgal · December 2013

The thought that my daughter who worse a dress to school today and wore light pink nail polish is sexualizing because of these things makes me want to puke. She is a little girl who likes dresses and nail polish NOT even close to being a sexual being yet. Really I think of you think a child can be sexual then the problem lies with you.

Andrewsgal · December 2013

LalaMama81 said:

buffyjsa said:

I almost never wear heels, so I'm hoping to avoid this being an issue when our little girl is born (she will be our first). Same goes for make up - my idea of make up is mascara and lipstick. I didn't think about it before this, but I think this thread will prompt a conversation between myself and my husband tonight. I am totally against "sex-ifying" young girls. I would prefer her to wear flats, no make up (except nail polish), and am not particularly a fan of dresses (someone was entirely a tomboy growing up), but I will be open to discussing these subjects with her when she's old enough to put together a logical argument for why she should have these things.

Huh?

A little girl or baby wearing dresses has absolutely NOTHING to do w/ sex, being sexing, being "sexified" or anything of the sort.

I hope you will respect your child enough to allow her to wear a dress if that's what she chooses.

I'm dying at waiting for your child to come up w/ their logical argument for why they get to wear a dress.

I agree w/ setting guidelines for age-appropriate clothing, accessories, shoes and make up. But we're mostly talking about dress up clothes for a pre schooler here.

The thought that someone thinks your little girls in your siggy in dresses is sexual says way more about them than anything.

nikki912 · December 2013

I agree that consumerism shouldn't parent your children but I don't think (or hope) that anyone would be so dense as to let stuff dictate how they parent their children. I still think its important to provide a wide variety of toys,books,games etc. that Are outside the current phase. My son is obsessed with cars- but when he asked for a doll I jumped on that and make sure we play "big brother" as often as cars. If my daughter is in a princess phase that's fine. I anticipate that. It doesn't mean I have to start catering to it at the expense of other things.

Rogue237 · December 2013

I think people are talking about various different issues here. I wouldn't think of a girl wearing a dress as sexualizing her at all. That's not to say that, come a certain age, society won't be putting that on her, but I don't think sexualization and a little girl's view on pink, princesses, etc is the same thing at all.

kseccomb17 · December 2013

I think if you put too much attention on something becoming sexualized, your kids will see it that way..

KatieGummow · December 2013

Andrewsgal · December 2013

I think people are talking about various different issues here. I wouldn't think of a girl wearing a dress as sexualizing her at all. That's not to say that, come a certain age, society won't be putting that on her, but I don't think sexualization and a little girl's view on pink, princesses, etc is the same thing at all.

I agree I think these are two separate topics. I think we just got caught up in the poster who said dresses on little girls are sexualizing.

alysemci · December 2013

KatieGummow said:

I actually laughed out loud.

Rogue237 · December 2013

Andrewsgal said:

I think people are talking about various different issues here. I wouldn't think of a girl wearing a dress as sexualizing her at all. That's not to say that, come a certain age, society won't be putting that on her, but I don't think sexualization and a little girl's view on pink, princesses, etc is the same thing at all.
I agree I think these are two separate topics. I think we just got caught up in the poster who said dresses on little girls are sexualizing.

Gotcha - I was like, wait... I want to be very very clear that I was not saying that at all haha.

Rogue237 · December 2013

dani+california said:

I don't have kids so I have no input when it comes to these matters, but it does seem odd when I read 'I don't like XYZ so my daughter won't get to wear it/like it either'. Whatever your stance is on something, I would hope that you'd have the presence of mind to allow your child to choose it's own path. Whether that be dresses or nail polish or eventually high heels, as long as it's within your 'age appropriate' rules and boundaries (whatever they may be), I think it would be unfair to stop your child from engaging in what most would deem 'typical' behaviors just because you never did. I love to dress up, wear makeup, rock some heels and wear jewelry. If my daughter wanted to be a tomboy and wear exactly none of those things, I wouldn't dream of saying 'no honey, you can't go out until you've put makeup on' type thing. That's up to her.

Of course, Dani. She is allowed to be into anything she wants (within reason/age appropriateness of course), but I'll definitely be introducing her to stuff that I loved as a kid, because I have fond memories. My She-Ra and X-Men cartoon dvds await her when she's old enough. That said, if she decides she loves princesses, mom will just try to keep up. That said, I do think kids end up being "into" what their parents are into - at least in the beginning, because that's all they really know.

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