Have we talked about the fast food workers and $15 minimum wage?

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

There were several demonstrations by fast food workers about this.

It seems to have been spurred by Seattle's $15 minimum wage bill. (Yay, Seattle!)

I think it's a good idea since fast food workers aren't just kids and old people anymore. It's people who are raising families and the current minimum wage is NOT a living wage. Various articles I've read have said that people who work full time and are on minimum wage still have to use WIC and other "welfare programs" to survive. So basically places like Mikey D's are paying shit wages and the taxpayers are funding the remainder to keep people, you know, fed.

A lot of the fast food places are horrified by the idea because they say it will hurt their bottom line. Which is total bullshit, but whatever.

What say ye, Parenting?

ReeseFox · December 2013

I just broke down my salary and I don't even make $15/hr. Reason 2304975t0-9845-0 why I need a new fucking job.

ETA that was totally irrelevant, but I wanted to share anyway.

littlestjerry · December 2013

I fully support them. I can't imagine working my ass off in a full time job and still requiring public assistance. How demoralizing, especially when big execs make $1.5 million an hour or whatever. The gap between rich and poor here is absolutely disgusting.

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

ReeseFox said:

I just broke down my salary and I don't even make $15/hr. Reason 2304975t0-9845-0 why I need a new fucking job.

ETA that was totally irrelevant, but I wanted to share anyway.

IIRC, fast food workers around here make about $12/hour.

Living wage is $16/hour.

thebanich · December 2013

ReeseFox said:

I just broke down my salary and I don't even make $15/hr. Reason 2304975t0-9845-0 why I need a new fucking job.

ETA that was totally irrelevant, but I wanted to share anyway.

+1

Mrs.adambabycakes · December 2013

Min. wage for a server in 2008 in the state of Wisconsin was $2.33/hr. I guess I should've gone to Mickey D's.

LuckyDad · December 2013

I think the federal minimum wage needs to increase, and most state minimum wages are also too low.

I think $15 in Seattle vs. $15 in Des Moines is very different. But $7.25 is probably too low anywhere.

Mrs.adambabycakes · December 2013

MrsEll said:

Mrs.adambabycakes said:

Min. wage for a server in 2008 in the state of Wisconsin was $2.33/hr. I guess I should've gone to Mickey D's.

But didn't your restaurant have to cover the difference between that and regular min wage if you didn't make enough tips?

Nope.

DreadLoc · December 2013

Mrs.adambabycakes said:

MrsEll said:

Mrs.adambabycakes said:

Min. wage for a server in 2008 in the state of Wisconsin was $2.33/hr. I guess I should've gone to Mickey D's.

But didn't your restaurant have to cover the difference between that and regular min wage if you didn't make enough tips?

Nope.

Pretty sure that's illegal.

Mrs.adambabycakes · December 2013

justAphase said:

Waiting tables isn't really comparable to me. There is the possibility of making more than min wage from tips (I always did at the restaurants I worked at) and they do make up the difference if you don't make enough in tips.

That isn't always the case. When I worked in a sports bar in Reno, yes I would make some pretty good tips and the min wage was I believe $6.25/hr? In Wisconsin, the min wage then was horrendous and the restaurant I served at I was rarely tipped. So, location and I guess type of place play a part in that. I ended up getting a different job that payed better but was shitty in a different sense. I may be a little bitter towards Wisconsin.

ladyjenna13 · December 2013

The service industry has already replaced the manufacturing society we were in over the last century. As a result, the process that took place to gain a working wage and representation through unionization will probably be something we see with the service industry. Probably not to the extent of the Haymarket Square Riot, but corporate barons have never shown the ability to willing share any sort of their profits with the workers.

There is a reason SEIU is so involved in this movement, throwing money at it and putting people on the ground. They see a golden opportunity to gain access to a huge demographic in this country that has no representation. They have thrown millions into this movement, and that is what scares me. I fear their motives are rooted in gaining paying membership, instead of for a fair wage.

I saw a PP equated a $15 an hour job to $31,000 annual. There are a lot of college grads out there making that starting, so a bump in wages of that nature would have a huge positive impact on our economy, depending on where one lives. A small family in Milwaukee can survive on that annually, but 90 miles south, in Chicago, that still keeps you at the level of poverty in that city.

One last point, the difference between the workforce at a McDonalds's in a major urban area, and the sleepy suburban one, is night and day. The urban worker sees this job as the major source of income. I do not know if that is the case in the suburbs, where you see many more teens working there part time.

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

fredalina said:

Basic economics has proven that raising the minimum wage does 2 things: 1) Increases unemployment because companies have to learn to do more with fewer people, and 2) Exacerbates inflation. $15/hr may be a living wage at the time it's enacted but it won't be after the cost of groceries, gasoline, etc doubles. "Minimum wage" or a "living wage" always SOUNDS nice on paper and NEVER works out. I'd love it if everyone could support themselves on 40 hours a week with 2 weeks of paid vacation a year and generous benefits, but that's not possible. The reality is society values certain goods and services more than others and some people have to work 2 or more jobs, overtime, etc to make ends meet and support themselves. Raising the minimum wage will not change that. It will change things only momentarily.

People value fast food workers. Otherwise they would not get their delicious fries and Frosties.

There are economic implications of raising the minimum wage, but I would be willing to pay a little more for creature comforts if it meant someone else could feed their family. It will also allow those people whose only viable option for works is fast food to maybe be able to afford to send their kids to a nicer school or set some money aside for college.

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

Also, I would like to point out that rich folks claim to be "job creators" when there is absolutely no proof that lowering taxes on the rich will create jobs.

More likely the rich people would just save the money instead of using it to create more jobs.

Mrs.adambabycakes · December 2013

DreadLoc said:

Mrs.adambabycakes said:

MrsEll said:

Mrs.adambabycakes said:

Min. wage for a server in 2008 in the state of Wisconsin was $2.33/hr. I guess I should've gone to Mickey D's.

But didn't your restaurant have to cover the difference between that and regular min wage if you didn't make enough tips?

Nope.

Pretty sure that's illegal.

The guy who owned the place didn't own it for very long.

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

ladyjenna13 said:

The service industry has already replaced the manufacturing society we were in over the last century. As a result, the process that took place to gain a working wage and representation through unionization will probably be something we see with the service industry. Probably not to the extent of the Haymarket Square Riot, but corporate barons have never shown the ability to willing share any sort of their profits with the workers.

There is a reason SEIU is so involved in this movement, throwing money at it and putting people on the ground. They see a golden opportunity to gain access to a huge demographic in this country that has no representation. They have thrown millions into this movement, and that is what scares me. I fear their motives are rooted in gaining paying membership, instead of for a fair wage.

I saw a PP equated a $15 an hour job to $31,000 annual. There are a lot of college grads out there making that starting, so a bump in wages of that nature would have a huge positive impact on our economy, depending on where one lives. A small family in Milwaukee can survive on that annually, but 90 miles south, in Chicago, that still keeps you at the level of poverty in that city.

One last point, the difference between the workforce at a McDonalds's in a major urban area, and the sleepy suburban one, is night and day. The urban worker sees this job as the major source of income. I do not know if that is the case in the suburbs, where you see many more teens working there part time.

This is becoming increasingly incorrect. More people in the suburbs that work at fast food places are older. Like, they should be collecting social security but they can't because system broken older. 9 times out of 10, when I would go to the McDonalds when I lived in the suburbs, someone who was 60 or 70 was serving me.

LuckyDad · December 2013

CinemaGoddess said:

Also, I would like to point out that rich folks claim to be "job creators" when there is absolutely no proof that lowering taxes on the rich will create jobs.

More likely the rich people would just save the money instead of using it to create more jobs.

Which would be ok if they were actually reinvesting it in the economy rather than just hiding it in off-shore tax havens.

ladyjenna13 · December 2013

Mrs.adambabycakes said:

justAphase said:

Waiting tables isn't really comparable to me. There is the possibility of making more than min wage from tips (I always did at the restaurants I worked at) and they do make up the difference if you don't make enough in tips.
That isn't always the case. When I worked in a sports bar in Reno, yes I would make some pretty good tips and the min wage was I believe $6.25/hr? In Wisconsin, the min wage then was horrendous and the restaurant I served at I was rarely tipped. So, location and I guess type of place play a part in that. I ended up getting a different job that payed better but was shitty in a different sense. I may be a little bitter towards Wisconsin.

Wisconsin is not necessarily a beacon for job stability and opportunity. It is the perfect example of a state that prospered under the manufacturing and agriculture model, but now that manufacturing has bailed, the only place those laborers have available to them, unless they are blessed enough to get a college degree, is the service industry. Entire neighborhoods here in Milwaukee are blighted and abandoned because of the flight of manufacturing here. Milwaukee is a shining example fo what happens when manufacturing disappears within a generation, leaving a huge void in its wake of manual labor positions. The effects of this on my city are staggering.

LuckyDad · December 2013

OnederfulMother said:

I think the minimum wage should be a living wage everywhere.

I have never been able to figure out why people talk of working at McDonald's like it is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to jobs. Say you work at McDonald's and people automatically assume you are some lazy, uneducated person who only deserves minimum wage. It's complete bullshit. And honestly, it looks badly on the company. They should pay their employees better because the success of every single employee is a direct reflection of the company itself.

I have worked in fast-food. That shit is hard. I worked 10 times harder back then, cleaning, cooking and serving hundreds of people each day than I ever do now. There needs to be a movement of people showing respect to the people who serve them fries and burgers.

Okay, I'm ranting. Whatever.

It's hard work, but it's very low skill. You can train someone with no formal education to be a serviceable fast food worker in less than a week. Waiting tables doesn't require education, but it is a job where experience and skills do count; I know I couldn't do it without some training and practice. The reason Fast Food is spoken of like it is the bottom of the ladder is it arguably is, aside perhaps from farm labor.

iwantnoworld · December 2013

Both myself and my SO work in fast food. I make 7.50/hr and have worked with the same store off and on for almost five years. My SO is an assistant manager and makes 10/hr.

Of all the jobs I've worked (with the exception of being a CNA) it's the most stressful, disrespected job I've had, and yet it's the one that pays the least. But in all the jobs I've had, I've never made over 10/hr.

I seriously can't wait to get my nursing license... :-<

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

fredalina said:

fredalina said:

Basic economics has proven that raising the minimum wage does 2 things: 1) Increases unemployment because companies have to learn to do more with fewer people, and 2) Exacerbates inflation. $15/hr may be a living wage at the time it's enacted but it won't be after the cost of groceries, gasoline, etc doubles. "Minimum wage" or a "living wage" always SOUNDS nice on paper and NEVER works out. I'd love it if everyone could support themselves on 40 hours a week with 2 weeks of paid vacation a year and generous benefits, but that's not possible. The reality is society values certain goods and services more than others and some people have to work 2 or more jobs, overtime, etc to make ends meet and support themselves. Raising the minimum wage will not change that. It will change things only momentarily.

People value fast food workers. Otherwise they would not get their delicious fries and Frosties.

There are economic implications of raising the minimum wage, but I would be willing to pay a little more for creature comforts if it meant someone else could feed their family. It will also allow those people whose only viable option for works is fast food to maybe be able to afford to send their kids to a nicer school or set some money aside for college.

I said society values "certain goods and services." I am not talking about valuing PEOPLE; no person has more worth than another, but some skill sets do. Any you can say that you would pay "a little more," but when the cost of a burger doubles and you lose your job and your kid's preschool prices go up 15% because the aftercare workers make double now and you can barely afford food, you won't be able to. Considering the piss poor state of our current economy, doubling minimum wage at this time would be crippling. It's bad all the time to raise it, but to raise it to now to that degree is a horrible idea. But, they'll talk about it for 2 years and then raise it and set it to take effect in 2017 so they can blame the next president for the bad economy to follow.

So basically the only option is to let people live in poverty for generations because it might harm your personal take home pay?

Ok.

Mrs.adambabycakes · December 2013

ladyjenna13 said:

Mrs.adambabycakes said:

justAphase said:

Waiting tables isn't really comparable to me. There is the possibility of making more than min wage from tips (I always did at the restaurants I worked at) and they do make up the difference if you don't make enough in tips.
That isn't always the case. When I worked in a sports bar in Reno, yes I would make some pretty good tips and the min wage was I believe $6.25/hr? In Wisconsin, the min wage then was horrendous and the restaurant I served at I was rarely tipped. So, location and I guess type of place play a part in that. I ended up getting a different job that payed better but was shitty in a different sense. I may be a little bitter towards Wisconsin.
Wisconsin is not necessarily a beacon for job stability and opportunity. It is the perfect example of a state that prospered under the manufacturing and agriculture model, but now that manufacturing has bailed, the only place those laborers have available to them, unless they are blessed enough to get a college degree, is the service industry. Entire neighborhoods here in Milwaukee are blighted and abandoned because of the flight of manufacturing here. Milwaukee is a shining example fo what happens when manufacturing disappears within a generation, leaving a huge void in its wake of manual labor positions. The effects of this on my city are staggering.

This was in Oshkosh. I don't know if it's any better now. Last time I was there, there were a lot of vacant buildings.

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

And a burger costs $1. I'd be ok with paying $2 for a burger.

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

Also, this wouldn't be such an issue if the minimum wage was increased for inflation. It hasn't been for a few decades. Minimum wage workers have been falling further and further behind the poverty line and people are like "Oh well. They're not college educated so it doesn't really matter. Hey! Who's going to come clean this bathroom? I'm not doing it because college educated."

ladyjenna13 · December 2013

CinemaGoddess said:

ladyjenna13 said:

The service industry has already replaced the manufacturing society we were in over the last century. As a result, the process that took place to gain a working wage and representation through unionization will probably be something we see with the service industry. Probably not to the extent of the Haymarket Square Riot, but corporate barons have never shown the ability to willing share any sort of their profits with the workers.

There is a reason SEIU is so involved in this movement, throwing money at it and putting people on the ground. They see a golden opportunity to gain access to a huge demographic in this country that has no representation. They have thrown millions into this movement, and that is what scares me. I fear their motives are rooted in gaining paying membership, instead of for a fair wage.

I saw a PP equated a $15 an hour job to $31,000 annual. There are a lot of college grads out there making that starting, so a bump in wages of that nature would have a huge positive impact on our economy, depending on where one lives. A small family in Milwaukee can survive on that annually, but 90 miles south, in Chicago, that still keeps you at the level of poverty in that city.

One last point, the difference between the workforce at a McDonalds's in a major urban area, and the sleepy suburban one, is night and day. The urban worker sees this job as the major source of income. I do not know if that is the case in the suburbs, where you see many more teens working there part time.
This is becoming increasingly incorrect. More people in the suburbs that work at fast food places are older. Like, they should be collecting social security but they can't because system broken older. 9 times out of 10, when I would go to the McDonalds when I lived in the suburbs, someone who was 60 or 70 was serving me.

I only know what I see here in my little part of the world. I do recognize that more and more seniors are working in the service industry for a second income on top of what they already are bringing in. Milwaukee is very different in many ways, including the senior population here that is not that far removed from major pensions from huge manufacturing companies like AO Smith, Allis Chalmers, Master Lock, Case, Rexnord, etc. that eliminate the need for an additional income source. Rural Wisconsin is so agricutural driven that most seniors up there are still running their farms or working in farming at some capacity. But I do certainly see more seniors working the windows at drive thru's more and more.

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

And don't get me started on college educations meaning fuckall anymore unless you have a masters or a doctorate.

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

fredalina said:

fredalina said:

fredalina said:

Basic economics has proven that raising the minimum wage does 2 things: 1) Increases unemployment because companies have to learn to do more with fewer people, and 2) Exacerbates inflation. $15/hr may be a living wage at the time it's enacted but it won't be after the cost of groceries, gasoline, etc doubles. "Minimum wage" or a "living wage" always SOUNDS nice on paper and NEVER works out. I'd love it if everyone could support themselves on 40 hours a week with 2 weeks of paid vacation a year and generous benefits, but that's not possible. The reality is society values certain goods and services more than others and some people have to work 2 or more jobs, overtime, etc to make ends meet and support themselves. Raising the minimum wage will not change that. It will change things only momentarily.

People value fast food workers. Otherwise they would not get their delicious fries and Frosties.

There are economic implications of raising the minimum wage, but I would be willing to pay a little more for creature comforts if it meant someone else could feed their family. It will also allow those people whose only viable option for works is fast food to maybe be able to afford to send their kids to a nicer school or set some money aside for college.

I said society values "certain goods and services." I am not talking about valuing PEOPLE; no person has more worth than another, but some skill sets do. Any you can say that you would pay "a little more," but when the cost of a burger doubles and you lose your job and your kid's preschool prices go up 15% because the aftercare workers make double now and you can barely afford food, you won't be able to. Considering the piss poor state of our current economy, doubling minimum wage at this time would be crippling. It's bad all the time to raise it, but to raise it to now to that degree is a horrible idea. But, they'll talk about it for 2 years and then raise it and set it to take effect in 2017 so they can blame the next president for the bad economy to follow.

So basically the only option is to let people live in poverty for generations because it might harm your personal take home pay?

Ok.
Not at all what I said. It isn't about me. I'd pay $2 for a burger, too...if I still had a job, which I might not if the economy does what it would do after a move like doubling the way they want it to. This isn't a minor economic implication or something that results in a little more cost for the rich. It rocks the whole economy negatively. In the end it does nothing to the poverty line or the number of people living in poverty. It just changes the number used to determine the poverty line. You want to talk "fair"? Is it ok for a McD's worker who works 30 hours a week to now get paid double for the same job if it results in half his coworkers being laid off and now not being able to provide for THEIR families? Because I guarantee you McD's execs aren't going to take the hit. It sounds nice to say it, but it won't happen.

This is the crux of the problem. McD's make literally hundreds of times more an hour than their workers, and yet they're not willing to give up some of their earnings to help out their workers. They work their people to the bone, pay them shit wages, and then laugh all the way to the bank with their bonuses and tax breaks.

Bullshit. That should not happen.

And this is the norm. There are very very few large companies who actually treat their workers with the same respect as their higher ups. Honestly, the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Costco.

LuckyDad · December 2013

fredalina said:

Basic economics has proven that raising the minimum wage does 2 things: 1) Increases unemployment because companies have to learn to do more with fewer people, and 2) Exacerbates inflation. $15/hr may be a living wage at the time it's enacted but it won't be after the cost of groceries, gasoline, etc doubles. "Minimum wage" or a "living wage" always SOUNDS nice on paper and NEVER works out. I'd love it if everyone could support themselves on 40 hours a week with 2 weeks of paid vacation a year and generous benefits, but that's not possible. The reality is society values certain goods and services more than others and some people have to work 2 or more jobs, overtime, etc to make ends meet and support themselves. Raising the minimum wage will not change that. It will change things only momentarily.

I feel like you're only partially correct. Obviously increasing the minimum wage would have some inflationary effects, although these days a big chunk of our inflation is controlled by global demand for energy. You named gasoline specifically, but US demand has very little effect on prices at the pump. Food demand is somewhat inelastic: Even if you're poor, you still have to eat. The biggest impact would probably be on housing, especially lower end rent.

Companies often do pass on increased labor costs to consumers, but again it's hardly 1:1. In fast food labor is a huge chunk of the consumer price, but for many other goods it's all about shipping.

So you are right that minimum wage increases do have inflationary effects, but the trade-offs seem worthwhile. There also are a lot of societal benefits to forcing corporations rather than government to bear the burden of supporting low wage workers.

ladyjenna13 · December 2013

LuckyDad said:

OnederfulMother said:

I think the minimum wage should be a living wage everywhere.

I have never been able to figure out why people talk of working at McDonald's like it is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to jobs. Say you work at McDonald's and people automatically assume you are some lazy, uneducated person who only deserves minimum wage. It's complete bullshit. And honestly, it looks badly on the company. They should pay their employees better because the success of every single employee is a direct reflection of the company itself.

I have worked in fast-food. That shit is hard. I worked 10 times harder back then, cleaning, cooking and serving hundreds of people each day than I ever do now. There needs to be a movement of people showing respect to the people who serve them fries and burgers.

Okay, I'm ranting. Whatever.
It's hard work, but it's very low skill. You can train someone with no formal education to be a serviceable fast food worker in less than a week. Waiting tables doesn't require education, but it is a job where experience and skills do count; I know I couldn't do it without some training and practice. The reason Fast Food is spoken of like it is the bottom of the ladder is it arguably is, aside perhaps from farm labor.

It is a fine line, because I want to credit the service industry worker for the hard work they do day in and day out for little money. I worked in the restaurant biz for ten years, and even when I became a manager, the money was horribe for the time and effort that I put into my job. It was a huge motivator for me to work hard in college and get my degree. I have been on both sides of the fence, and at the end of the day, education and learning real-world skills is the only way to overcome the traps of low wages and horrible working hours. If I had not gotten my degree, I would not be where I am today, period.

LuckyDad · December 2013

fredalina said:

Also, this wouldn't be such an issue if the minimum wage was increased for inflation. It hasn't been for a few decades. Minimum wage workers have been falling further and further behind the poverty line and people are like "Oh well. They're not college educated so it doesn't really matter. Hey! Who's going to come clean this bathroom? I'm not doing it because college educated."

Not really true though. If you took where minimum wage started in 1938 and adjusted for inflation, the current minimum wage SHOULD be $4/hr (I'm not saying it should be lowered). There was a spike in min wage in the 60's in a misguided attempt to get people out of poverty but the min wage now, adj for inflation, is much higher than it was for the FIRST few decades of the program. See attachment. P.S. Oh, and what happened right after that big 2006 spike at the end? Oh yeah, the Great Recession.

Clearly the Great Recession was caused by poor people being speculative with all their newfound wealth *eyeroll*!

I think we're *finally* close to convicting a few of the crooks who caused the great recession. Six years later.

LuckyDad · December 2013

CinemaGoddess said:

And this is the norm. There are very very few large companies who actually treat their workers with the same respect as their higher ups. Honestly, the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Costco.

Starbucks isn't perfect, but is better than most. Another Seattle based company!

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

fredalina said:

Also, this wouldn't be such an issue if the minimum wage was increased for inflation. It hasn't been for a few decades. Minimum wage workers have been falling further and further behind the poverty line and people are like "Oh well. They're not college educated so it doesn't really matter. Hey! Who's going to come clean this bathroom? I'm not doing it because college educated."

Not really true though. If you took where minimum wage started in 1938 and adjusted for inflation, the current minimum wage SHOULD be $4/hr (I'm not saying it should be lowered). There was a spike in min wage in the 60's in a misguided attempt to get people out of poverty but the min wage now, adj for inflation, is much higher than it was for the FIRST few decades of the program. See attachment. P.S. Oh, and what happened right after that big 2006 spike at the end? Oh yeah, the Great Recession.

But .25/hour in 1938 was a living wage. It cost something like 10 cents to go to the movies. That's half an hour's worth of work.

$4.14/hour (adjusted for inflation) is not a living wage in any part of this country. That's not even a matinee movie ticket at a standard theater. You'd have to work 2.5 hours to afford a single movie ticket this was the actual minimum wage.

And I heartily disagree that the rise in inflation caused the Great Recession. That can pretty much be pinned on sub prime mortgage lending causing a housing bubble which lead to inflation.

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

So what do we do, then, to prevent some of the country's hardest workers from getting the financial shaft and living well below the poverty line?

It's pretty much a fact that hard work does not equal success. There are many many other factors involved.

ladyjenna13 · December 2013

dotgirl2 said:

ladyjenna13 said:

The service industry has already replaced the manufacturing society we were in over the last century. As a result, the process that took place to gain a working wage and representation through unionization will probably be something we see with the service industry. Probably not to the extent of the Haymarket Square Riot, but corporate barons have never shown the ability to willing share any sort of their profits with the workers.

There is a reason SEIU is so involved in this movement, throwing money at it and putting people on the ground. They see a golden opportunity to gain access to a huge demographic in this country that has no representation. They have thrown millions into this movement, and that is what scares me. I fear their motives are rooted in gaining paying membership, instead of for a fair wage.

I saw a PP equated a $15 an hour job to $31,000 annual. There are a lot of college grads out there making that starting, so a bump in wages of that nature would have a huge positive impact on our economy, depending on where one lives. A small family in Milwaukee can survive on that annually, but 90 miles south, in Chicago, that still keeps you at the level of poverty in that city.

One last point, the difference between the workforce at a McDonalds's in a major urban area, and the sleepy suburban one, is night and day. The urban worker sees this job as the major source of income. I do not know if that is the case in the suburbs, where you see many more teens working there part time.
But given the nature of the fast food industry, it will be hard to unionize, and SEIU is well aware of this. There is high turnover among fast food workers, which creates instability within the local unions. Also because so many restaurants (200,000 by some estimates) are owned and operated by franchisees, it would require collective bargaining with each one. The union can't just go to the table with McDonalds the corporation. It will have to go to the table with 200,000 different employers.

I think SEIU is out in front on this because helping to raise wages for low paying fast food jobs, with help their members in other low paying service jobs. It's a broader strategy to put a spotlight on all low paying jobs.

I would like to think this is true, but today's unions are in the business of politics and money. I saw too much of it here in Wisconsin with the whole Scott Walker recall. They actually "interviewed" the Dems that they wanted to handpick from to run against Walker. It was the craziest thing I ever saw in state politics. And they lost millions doing it. Don't get me wrong, because I do believe that there are some leaders in that union that truly have made fighting for real wages their priority and calling. I do not know if the suits share that.

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

From what I gather from your original graph, fred, minimum wage did not go up with inflation. Inflation rose and fell but minimum wage stayed pretty steady until the two met in 2012.

So that means that the people who were making minimum wage were falling futher into poverty because of issues not related to the amount of money they were earning.

ladyjenna13 · December 2013

CinemaGoddess said:

And don't get me started on college educations meaning fuckall anymore unless you have a masters or a doctorate.

I know too many people who have had their lives transformed from getting their BA that I cannot agree with this statement. I have seen friends of mine rise above generations of poverty in their family, and that is because that degree gave them ACCESS to networks and individuals that they never would have had if they had not gone onto college. Access is everything in today's world.

The value of a BA has certainly diminished over the last 10 years or so. But one can never under-estimate the value that college gives in terms of networking, internships, and career development.

Now, the difference in what I earn, BA vs Masters or a post grad certification, is certainly an eye opener. But in my company, if you do not have a bachelor's, no need to apply. Instead of my Master's, I have my PMP, and in my world of project management, a PMP earns just as much as a MBA. But education is the common denominator in terms of my career path and the money I earn.

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

fredalina said:

No, the top line is 2013 dollars. Look at it this way, if the original .15/hr had been raised annually to keep pace with inflation (and lowered for deflation), the minimum wage today would be $4/hr. The reality is that min wage has way outpaced inflation.

I'm talking about this one. Am I reading it wrong?

JackoftheBox · December 2013

I think their pay should at least cover the yearly min cost of living. That said i think they should raise the standards when it comes to hiring. Also just a side note I am SUPER friendly and nice to fast food workers. I have been one before, and I always took extra care and effort for those who were nicer to me

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

ladyjenna13 said:

CinemaGoddess said:

And don't get me started on college educations meaning fuckall anymore unless you have a masters or a doctorate.

I know too many people who have had their lives transformed from getting their BA that I cannot agree with this statement. I have seen friends of mine rise above generations of poverty in their family, and that is because that degree gave them ACCESS to networks and individuals that they never would have had if they had not gone onto college. Access is everything in today's world.

The value of a BA has certainly diminished over the last 10 years or so. But one can never under-estimate the value that college gives in terms of networking, internships, and career development.

Now, the difference in what I earn, BA vs Masters or a post grad certification, is certainly an eye opener. But in my company, if you do not have a bachelor's, no need to apply. Instead of my Master's, I have my PMP, and in my world of project management, a PMP earns just as much as a MBA. But education is the common denominator in terms of my career path and the money I earn.

How old are you again?

These days, a BA or a BS is equivalent to what a HS diploma was 20 years ago. Everyone gets one. It doesn't mean much in the real world. People are looking for masters, doctorates and even JDs these days when hiring. And JDs aren't worth much more than the paper they're printed on since Big Law took such a nosedive in the recession.

I've known more than one attorney who went back to school after completing law school and passing the bar because they could make more money as an electrical or mechanical engineer. But they had to go back for their masters or doctorates.

Of course, this all depends on your industry. People make good money with degrees from DeVry or ITTech.

ladyjenna13 · December 2013

@dotgirl2

I see what you are saying there!!

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

The red line is minimum wage as it rose in real time.

The green line is inflation but I'm not sure what it's supposed to represent other than inflation. The $4 in 1938 is supposed to mean what?

I thought it meant that minimum wage wasn't being adjusted for the actual, real time costs of items that rose because of inflation, meaning that people making minimum wage were never going to be able to afford much of anything because of inflation.

CinemaGoddess · December 2013

Mackalien13 said:

This is probably a UO, but I think it's a bad idea. If companies have to increase wages by that much, they are going to pass that on to consumers. So while people's nominal wage will go up, their purchasing power will go down. And some may have to cut employees.

And this is where the bullshit lies.

These companies will pass it onto consumers instead of eating the cost, which the majority of fast food companies can more than afford.

Want a personalized experience?

Have we talked about the fast food workers and $15 minimum wage?

Re: Have we talked about the fast food workers and $15 minimum wage?

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