@techmommie When I say laughing in the face of etiquette, I'm referring to you saying "Etiquette Smetiquette". Which implies that you don't care so much about it, when the very reason it exists is to make your guests comfortable and accommodated.
So I don't have a dog in this fight; I'm a FTM but am turning down showers (on this board for sip and see advice).
Anyway, I TOTALLY AGREE with the part of your statement I bolded. Etiquette is aaaaaaaallllll about making people feel comfortable and accommodated and appreciated.
Sooo . . . if the OP's friends and family really want to give her a shower, and will be happy giving her a shower because it will just warm the cockles of their generous hearts, and no one IRL in any way will be offended by her having a shower; if, in fact, it will make everyone involved in the shower feel comfortable and accommodated . . .
. . . how is it rude for her to have a shower?
It's like elbows on the table to me. It's bad manners to have elbows on the table. So if I'm around people who get offended by that sort of thing (like my Southern relatives), I keep my elbows off the darn table. I want my relatives to feel comfortable and accommodated.
But if I'm around my friends, and everyone wants to put their elbows on the table 'cuz it's comfy . . . I put my elbows on the table! No one's offended. Everyone is comfortable and accommodated. Not rude. Against the "rules," but not rude.
I have only been to a few sprinkles as an adult. One was for my cousin whose older son was three when she was pregnant with her daughter. I had thrown her a huge shower costing hundreds of dollars for her son. I had given her a bunch of DD's clothes when she found out it was a girl. Then I got an invite to a shower. I was pissed. Now in addition to all of the other things I had given to her family I now had to give more. I had no say in the spacing or sex of her children why is it my responsibility to keep providing for them? If she wanted to have a high chair for the second she could have kept the first one she was given or purchased a new one. I don't get the logic behind needing a second or third shower. It's your job to provide for your family.
It depends on your area. I personally believe big to-do's are for FTMs only, but I know my church does a baby shower for every baby. I agree with PP that having no baby things does not justify having a shower.
I love how people throw in "I'm Christian so it's ok because Christians are such wonderful people" argument. How does religion even play a piece in this argument at all???? And p.s. I'm a Christian.....
I've come to realize that it really depends on the individual situation. I asked a lot of friends (those who know I'm expecting and those who don't) their feelings and opinions on the subjuct and not ONE said anything about it being in poor taste and felt its a nice sentiment and a way to show support. In fact when I mentioned etiquette most just laughed and said I was so 1950's. So I have to agree with Pepperedmoth. It depends. Some mind, some don't. Those who DO mind will kindly decline an invitation and think what they will about it. Those who don't will come and take part in the festivities. Times are changing and so are some of the thoughts and opinions on subjects such as these. You can't please everyone.
I've come to realize that it really depends on the individual situation. I asked a lot of friends (those who know I'm expecting and those who don't) their feelings and opinions on the subjuct and not ONE said anything about it being in poor taste and felt its a nice sentiment and a way to show support. In fact when I mentioned etiquette most just laughed and said I was so 1950's. So I have to agree with Pepperedmoth. It depends. Some mind, some don't. Those who DO mind will kindly decline an invitation and think what they will about it. Those who don't will come and take part in the festivities. Times are changing and so are some of the thoughts and opinions on subjects such as these. You can't please everyone.
You do make a good point. The problem is that someone who disagrees may not "just " decline an invitation. Yes, they will decline, but there is also the feeling that said invitee is being hit up for gifts after they have already given. While the MTB may truly understand (hopefully), any invitee may feel guilty about not attending out of principle, thinking MTB will be upset. This brings a certain level of awkwardness and discomfort that I just do not wish to impart on any of my family or friends.
@techmommie When I say laughing in the face of etiquette, I'm referring to you saying "Etiquette Smetiquette". Which implies that you don't care so much about it, when the very reason it exists is to make your guests comfortable and accommodated.
So I don't have a dog in this fight; I'm a FTM but am turning down showers (on this board for sip and see advice).
Anyway, I TOTALLY AGREE with the part of your statement I bolded. Etiquette is aaaaaaaallllll about making people feel comfortable and accommodated and appreciated.
Sooo . . . if the OP's friends and family really want to give her a shower, and will be happy giving her a shower because it will just warm the cockles of their generous hearts, and no one IRL in any way will be offended by her having a shower; if, in fact, it will make everyone involved in the shower feel comfortable and accommodated . . .
. . . how is it rude for her to have a shower?
It's like elbows on the table to me. It's bad manners to have elbows on the table. So if I'm around people who get offended by that sort of thing (like my Southern relatives), I keep my elbows off the darn table. I want my relatives to feel comfortable and accommodated.
But if I'm around my friends, and everyone wants to put their elbows on the table 'cuz it's comfy . . . I put my elbows on the table! No one's offended. Everyone is comfortable and accommodated. Not rude. Against the "rules," but not rude.
Does OP know for sure that every single person invited/attending is 100% cool with it? If yes, then do whatever you want. But it is very unlikely that every single person is okay with it or thinks its the best idea ever.
And guess what? Even if they didn't think it was a great idea, do you think they would voice that? My guess is no because it would be rude (see how etiquette comes into play here as well?) Most people won't tell you to your face that XYZ sucks because they do not want to be rude to you.
Also, think of that position you are putting people in that really don't agree with the idea. You say that if they don't like it, they can decline. But that in itself may make them uncomfortable because no one likes to truly decline a family event if they don't have to. So if they go, they feel uncomfortable. If they don't go, they feel uncomfortable. See?
This was me in the situation I mentioned above! I had to go. What was I going to say, that I had to work? I'm a teacher. Family obligations are hard to get out of just because I don't agree with second showers in principal.
In my family there is a party for every baby that is born. The first baby gets a big shower, the other babies get sprinkles. Also, every baby gets a baptism reception party or a welcome home party. The big shower is the normal, typical shower. The sprinkles are for smaller stuff like new clothes, diapers, and books or toys. The baptism or welcome home party involves cash gifts from grandparents and/or religious items like a cross or silver picture frame.
I think it's ok if someone wants to throw one for you and your friends seem exited for you to have one. If it's just you wanting to throw one for yourself than that's weird..
I agree.l. Etiquette rules are pretty black and white but unfortunately we live in a very grey world. If close friends and Fmily are genuinely excited to throw a repeat shower, I think it's acceptable. Actually, I think it would e somewhat rude to turn it down, especially if they know you are in need.
And in my region/social circle it's fairly common to have repeat showers. 10-15 years ago it was a bit taboo but for some folks, times have changed. To the OP- Only you know if your group of friends and family will think this is acceptable... A group of etiquette queen strangers on the Internet are going to tell you what the traditional "right" answer is, but it may not apply to you (or more importantly, your hosts/guests for the theoretical shower in question). Personallly - My opinion changes a little based on whether or not this is an "oops my kids are teenagers and we weren't planning to get pregnant again" -especially of its the father's firsts baby- versus "my youngest is 15 months old and I donated/sold all my stuff knowing full well I would be having more children soon".
I think it's ok if someone wants to throw one for you and your friends seem exited for you to have one. If it's just you wanting to throw one for yourself than that's weird..
I agree.l. Etiquette rules are pretty black and white but unfortunately we live in a very grey world. If close friends and Fmily are genuinely excited to throw a repeat shower, I think it's acceptable. Actually, I think it would e somewhat rude to turn it down, especially if they know you are in need.
And in my region/social circle it's fairly common to have repeat showers. 10-15 years ago it was a bit taboo but for some folks, times have changed. To the OP- Only you know if your group of friends and family will think this is acceptable... A group of etiquette queen strangers on the Internet are going to tell you what the traditional "right" answer is, but it may not apply to you (or more importantly, your hosts/guests for the theoretical shower in question). Personallly - My opinion changes a little based on whether or not this is an "oops my kids are teenagers and we weren't planning to get pregnant again" -especially of its the father's firsts baby- versus "my youngest is 15 months old and I donated/sold all my stuff knowing full well I would be having more children soon".
Why was it taboo 10-15 years ago and now it's okay? Please to explain this. Because etiquette doesn't change- it stays the same. What does change is the fact that people try to play the 'times have changed' card so they think it's perfectly acceptable to do whatever they want.
It's not cool. Etiquette exists for a reason. People have grown more entitled and greedy, and choose to do what benefits themselves rather than think of others. Also, having a shower shouldn't be based upon the couple's super special situation; if they are grown-ups and choosing to have another child, then they choose to take full responsibility to every financial aspect of having a child.
So social, societal and cultural normals have not changed in the thousands of years since humans have been in existence? We all break dozens of not hundreds of antiquated etiquette rules that we likely don't even realize existed a hundred years ago but still get bent out of shape if it involves someone else's baby or wedding. While I think it's wrong to expect to have a second or third shower, I don't see why it should be required for someone to turn it down if there is a group of folks willing and eager to host it. And yes, I get it. One should be financially responsible before having a child. I also think its unfair that you have license to catch a fish yet there are no restrictions on who can raise a child but that's not the point. If you had your way, I suppose we should ban all presents ever for all babies ever born? Because giving presents implies that the mother is stupid and irresponsible. Ok.
If your friends want to celebrate you having another baby let them! A shower does not mean anyone has to buy you anything, they could just come and help you celebrate by sharing good company, food and yes you can even do a few games. I have been to baby showers for people having their second child and I never thought anything of it! I was happy to be included. If people don't want to go or think its tacky then that's up to them.
If your friends want to celebrate you having another baby let them! A shower does not mean anyone has to buy you anything, they could just come and help you celebrate by sharing good company, food and yes you can even do a few games. I have been to baby showers for people having their second child and I never thought anything of it! I was happy to be included. If people don't want to go or think its tacky then that's up to them.
Well, a shower is where you shower the mother with gifts, so it pretty much does mean that the guests are going to buy you things. Please don't drag up an old thread unless you have something worthwhile to say.
Re: 3rd Child?
You do make a good point. The problem is that someone who disagrees may not "just " decline an invitation. Yes, they will decline, but there is also the feeling that said invitee is being hit up for gifts after they have already given. While the MTB may truly understand (hopefully), any invitee may feel guilty about not attending out of principle, thinking MTB will be upset. This brings a certain level of awkwardness and discomfort that I just do not wish to impart on any of my family or friends.
LFAF Summer 2016 Awards:
make them uncomfortable because no one likes to truly decline a family event
if they don't have to. So if they go, they
feel uncomfortable. If they don't go, they feel uncomfortable.
See?
This was me in the situation I mentioned above! I had to go. What was I going to say, that I had to work? I'm a teacher. Family obligations are hard to get out of just because I don't agree with second showers in principal.
I agree.l. Etiquette rules are pretty black and white but unfortunately we live in a very grey world. If close friends and Fmily are genuinely excited to throw a repeat shower, I think it's acceptable. Actually, I think it would e somewhat rude to turn it down, especially if they know you are in need. And in my region/social circle it's fairly common to have repeat showers. 10-15 years ago it was a bit taboo but for some folks, times have changed. To the OP- Only you know if your group of friends and family will think this is acceptable... A group of etiquette queen strangers on the Internet are going to tell you what the traditional "right" answer is, but it may not apply to you (or more importantly, your hosts/guests for the theoretical shower in question). Personallly - My opinion changes a little based on whether or not this is an "oops my kids are teenagers and we weren't planning to get pregnant again" -especially of its the father's firsts baby- versus "my youngest is 15 months old and I donated/sold all my stuff knowing full well I would be having more children soon".
So social, societal and cultural normals have not changed in the thousands of years since humans have been in existence? We all break dozens of not hundreds of antiquated etiquette rules that we likely don't even realize existed a hundred years ago but still get bent out of shape if it involves someone else's baby or wedding. While I think it's wrong to expect to have a second or third shower, I don't see why it should be required for someone to turn it down if there is a group of folks willing and eager to host it. And yes, I get it. One should be financially responsible before having a child. I also think its unfair that you have license to catch a fish yet there are no restrictions on who can raise a child but that's not the point. If you had your way, I suppose we should ban all presents ever for all babies ever born? Because giving presents implies that the mother is stupid and irresponsible. Ok.
I don't think asking for handouts became "okay" in the last 15 years, but maybe it's just me. Maybe it's okay because there will be cake?
If your friends want to celebrate you having another baby let them! A shower does not mean anyone has to buy you anything, they could just come and help you celebrate by sharing good company, food and yes you can even do a few games. I have been to baby showers for people having their second child and I never thought anything of it! I was happy to be included. If people don't want to go or think its tacky then that's up to them.
Well, a shower is where you shower the mother with gifts, so it pretty much does mean that the guests are going to buy you things. Please don't drag up an old thread unless you have something worthwhile to say.