DD is having social issues in preschool (long)

meg1974 · November 2013

DD is extremely shy in new situations - to the point where someone will say "hello" to her in public, and she won't say anything back. She has done this all of her life, and I encourage her to say hi, but don't force her or tell her she is wrong for not doing it. She is completely opposite at home and with people she knows really well.

She started school last year when she was 3, and had an okay time. She went back and forth between friends, but she did find one best friend who was also shy. We did a few play dates with her and were starting to get to know her family. Things went well when they started pre-K this year, but then one day her BF found another friend, who is a bit pushy and tells her not to play with DD.

She hasn't really made any other friends b/c of her shyness. I'm sure the kids think she is unfriendly if she doesn't respond when they talk to her, so they just move on. I don't blame pre-k kids for this b/c they don't have the maturity to know better, but I would think their moms could teach them to be inclusive. To make things worse, all of the girls in the class who go part-time have formed a clique, except for DD. They get together after school, and the moms talk about it in front of DD.

I get that all of these things are normal and happen throughout the school years. But, what has me worried is this seems to be affecting her confidence and other areas of her life. Ever since all of this started, she has been acting different - misbehaves a lot at home, very clingy, wants to sit on my lap and do nothing most of the time, asks me if I love her a lot, tells me she loves me constantly, treats her little sister poorly, etc. She also shut down when the teacher did an assessment in school, to which the teacher attributes to a confidence issue.

I talked to the teacher about it, and she is doing what she can to help. I've also been encouraging DD to talk to other kids when I drop her off and pick her up. Sometimes she does, and they reject her, so I've kind of backed off for fear of making it worse. She does say she likes school b/c she likes to cut and to play (although she plays alone most of the time). But, she asks me why the kids hurt her feelings. I tell her they don't understand why she is so shy, but she doesn't seem to get that.

TIA for any thoughts/advice.

mommymegan831 · November 2013

my internet at work is all screwy so I can't see pics or sigs right now, but didn't you just post this issue or was that someone else with the exact same concern?

edit: ok went back a few pages, that was you and you got a ton of responses. Maybe you have some real issues with your confidence as a parent. I find it really bizarre that you posted the exact same concerns within about a week.

meg1974 · November 2013

mommymegan831 said:

my internet at work is all screwy so I can't see pics or sigs right now, but didn't you just post this issue or was that someone else with the exact same concern?

edit: ok went back a few pages, that was you and you got a ton of responses. Maybe you have some real issues with your confidence as a parent. I find it really bizarre that you posted the exact same concerns within about a week.

I'm not sure what post you are referring to. This is the first time I have posted about this.

meg1974 · November 2013

fredalina said:

So, as a mom of an extroverted kid, what would you want me to teach my daughter to do to "be more inclusive"? If she says hi to someone or other conversation starter, and the child ignores her, and my daughter moves on, is she, at age 4, wrong? She isn't being "exclusive", she's reacting to the social cues that the shy child is giving off. In your shoes I would drop all use of the word "shy" for a solid month. I would not make excuses to strangers ("she's just shy") or even tell her to say hi in response. Whatever response (or not) she gives to adult strangers is absolutely fine and she has no need to worry that your words or actions or anyone else's are telling her she's wrong. She is just right how she is. (Of course I'm assuming that she is not cursing out strangers or something that WOULD be wrong, but if she ignores someone, looks away, smiles, or says hi back, or even says something incongruous, any of those responses are fine for the first month.). The only thing I would say is that when a kid speaks to her, you make sure she knows that if she wants to play, the other kid wants her to say hi back. That's it. I would see if she sees a return of some confidence. Without meaning to, our words and actions can erode their confidence when we make excuses or remind them what to do or say. She may feel some of that and be responding to it.

To answer your first question, I would just suggest that parents explain introversion and shyness to their children, letting them know that some children aren't as outgoing as they are but that doesn't mean they aren't friendly. Of course, there are some actions that are downright unfriendly (like you mentioned - cursing, etc.), but it can be helpful to explain what is and isn't.

Ncstatemom · November 2013

I'm not sure that it makes a difference since he's a boy but I have shy DS, 4.5.

He doesn't have social issues because of it to my knowledge (and I think I would have an idea if so, I'm pretty involved in his social life). He does the same thing as you mention when people generally talk to him but I DO insist he respond. He's 4.5, not 2.5, and I don't care how shy you are, you can say hi. I'm not asking him to have a conversation if he doesn't want to but he will be polite and respond to basic inquiries. I feel he is old enough to force this.

I have also made a HUGE issue to become friends with his friends' parents. It took some effort on my part as I did have to break into a "group of parents". I would highly recommend this method...just be direct and get involved, regardless of it being outside of your comfort level. I have stepped outside of my comfort level with the parents for my DS's sake and it's a made huge difference. I would go so far as to say this is the # 1 main reason that he has gone from "major shy" to "normal shy". He has alot of contact with his friends out of school and that really seems to make him more confident and happy at school.

rsd12 · November 2013

Do you set up one on one play dates? That might help. My middle son did not talk in preschool, not kidding. He had social worries aver his speech delay. But he was extremely sweet, just shy. We chose to set up one on one time with friends (good peers - you can ask the teacher for who these might be). That definitely helped build his confidence. In kindergarten now he has a bunch of friends (girls and boys) and talks to them, he is still a shy boy ; ) but that is okay!

meg1974 · November 2013

My other post was more specific to her not taking the test, but in this post I was trying to include some of the things that have happened since then that made me realize it's about much more than that (specifically the way her actions at home have changed). That's why, to me, the posts were different.
I did try talking to the teacher, which was the main suggestion received in the other post. I have also tried being more friendly with the other moms, but it's somewhat difficult because they are hard to penetrate. I will keep trying though.

-auntie- said:

Did you try any of the suggestions that were made in your other thread?

Did anything help? Backfire?

It's OK to honor a child's personality, but at 4 1/2 returning a greeting is just good manners.

meg1974 · November 2013

Thanks for your perspective, and I understand what you're saying. I don't think other kids are going to fix DD's shyness. I just think it's better for the moms to explain that some people are different, vs. not saying anything at all.
One example of inclusiveness is, if the kid walks into the classroom in the morning and two children are there, they should be encouraged to say hello to both of them, not just one. I have always done that with DD. I also tell her if she's playing in a group not to exclude one person who wants to play. I'm not sure if the other parents are teaching those skills, but to me they are important.

fredalina said:

This is the other very similar thread you posted: https://forums.thebump.com/discussion/12126529/dd-feeling-left-out-at-school#latest I have told my kiddo that other kids who snub her in public might be feeling shy that day. At this age she isn't drawing long term judgments about other kids yet, but she's not going to know that the kid who hides behind her Mommy's leg or grunts instead of speaking really DOES want to play with her but doesn't know how to ask. I don't think me telling her that some kids are shy is going to help the shy kid who can't express a desire to play very effectively. Maybe I'm missing what you mean though?

meg1974 · November 2013

What do you mean by the kids reject her when you encourage her to talk to them?

I encourage her to sit next to the girls and say hi, and when she does they ignore her and talk to other kids. The last time I did this, she was almost in tears so I stopped doing it. She has also told me that when she follows them to play with them, they tell her to stop and go away.

How are her conversation skills, do they appear typical to you? Have you asked the teacher if your dd has appropriate social skills for her age?
She has always been advanced in her speech. Once she gets to know someone, she is very conversational and very easy to understand. The teacher said she is shy, and that is not uncommon, but she did mention the clique and that she is trying to break it up.

Can you invite the part time kids to your house for a play date? When's her birthday, maybe have a party and invite the whole class?
Her bday is over the summer. I work part-time, making hosting large group play dates somewhat difficult. I am trying to work on one-on-one play dates.

You do seem to have a negative attitude towards the kids in her class, are you giving the same vibe to your dd b/c that isn't going to help.
No, I do the opposite. When she tells me the kids hurt her feelings, I say they probably didn't mean to, and we all do things we don't mean. I do realize, like you do (see below) that kids can be mean at this age so you might equate that to a negative attitude, but I think it's just being realistic.

I teach my dd to be inclusive, if I witness her doing something that would hurt somebody's feelings, I correct her. It's up to her and her teacher for that behavior to carry over.

Girls at this age can be brutal, so can the boys. When dd feels left out, I just tell her everybody is learning how to be friends and to try again with that person later.
I do the same! I'm just posting here looking for additional advice and support.

Luhdashuh said:

What do you mean by the kids reject her when you encourage her to talk to them? How are her conversation skills, do they appear typical to you? Have you asked the teacher if your dd has appropriate social skills for her age? Can you invite the part time kids to your house for a play date? When's her birthday, maybe have a party and invite the whole class? You do seem to have a negative attitude towards the kids in her class, are you giving the same vibe to your dd b/c that isn't going to help. I teach my dd to be inclusive, if I witness her doing something that would hurt somebody's feelings, I correct her. It's up to her and her teacher for that behavior to carry over. Girls at this age can be brutal, so can the boys. When dd feels left out, I just tell her everybody is learning how to be friends and to try again with that person later.

aglenn · November 2013

My DD has been on both sides of this issue. She can be shy and slow to warm up but once she's comfortable she turns into the ringleader. She switched day care centers last year when she was almost 4 and the girls were excluding her at first, doing many of the same things you are describing. It did hurt her feelings and she would get very upset about it. We talked about it a lot, and my advice to her was to be patient and show them what a good friend she could be while they were getting to know her. It did take some time but she eventually made her way into the little clique, and now we are working on reminding her of what that was like because now she is part of the group excluding the new girls who have come into the class since. It is just a tough age because they are developing all this attitude and they still have like zero concept of empathy. It's a learning process on all sides. I don't think there is much you can do that you haven't already done. It's social learning and your DD will have to find her own way, hard as that is for you to witness.

ILoveBoys · November 2013

Your child may be acting shy, certainly, but I would recommend not telling her "its okay if you're feeling shy" or telling anyone that "shes shy" especially in front of her. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. When DS2 was 3yo, he started not wanting to go into Sunday School class one week. Just out of the blue. Also started hiding behind us, not talking to people, etc. We worked and worked with him. It lasted about 2.5 years, almost 3 years, until about Christmas time after he started Kindergarten. He is MUCH better now and will even go on to Sunday School/evening church class with his older brother, and be in the class participating when we go to sign him in.

I understand some children are naturally on the shy/introverted side. I'm not saying there is a "quick fix". But this was my experience. Oh, and we never told DS he was shy. We told him if he didn't want to speak to people, he needed to smile and/or wave. He was not allowed to be rude.

mommymegan831 · November 2013

I was also thinking, if you really think this group is that cliquey, maybe look into a different preschool. A girl in DD's gymnastic class had the same problem at her school. She only went p/t so the kids that were there f/t were a little cliquey. The girl started to hate school so she pulled her out and put her in a different one at the beginning of September. I think September is a much easier time to make that transition, but it may be something to consider. Possibly after the holiday break or maybe if there is a new school opening in your area.

Littlejen22 · November 2013

I read most of the replies but not all of them. I have a very introverted kid and it is starting to affect him socially in 1st grade. When he goes on the playground during lunch or when he has indoor recess he prefers not to talk to others, he will not talk about why but I think it is partially shyness and partially that he needs to decompress and this is his first year full-time so he does not have that alone time he had before. I am very frustrated too and don't want this to become an issue for him but I do not see this being at all the fault of the other kids. For example, we had a fund-raiser at Barnes and Noble and one of the boys from school ran up to DS and tried to get him to go with them to see what one kid was doing and DS basically ignored him because he did not want to go (yes, I know this is an issue but he is not trying to be rude and I have failed at fixing the problem), I do not fault this kid from not asking DS again next time because he clearly gave the impression he was not interested. It is not on other parents to teach their kids to keep including a child that is telling them does not want to be included (even if she really does). There are also some kids that actually want to be left alone, how do you expect the parents to teach their kid when to leave a kid alone and when to persist if the kids are acting the same?

meg1974 · November 2013

Oh, I can totally relate! And no, I don't blame the other kids (I think I mentioned that in my OP). As far as the parents, I only hope that they will encourage their kids not to leave others out. I don't know if you read some of my examples, but sometimes the kids (and parents) will come into the class and greet everyone who is there but her. At these times, she is not ignoring them or being rude. She even says hello sometimes. It's then that I would hope the parents would step in with a simple "say hello to X," or the parents could even say hi to her, as an example.
I've noticed the more outgoing parents tend to flock toward each other and not talk to the more shy ones, so it's kind of the same dynamic. But, as adults I think it's important to teach kids to be friendly to everyone, not just those who are like you. But, maybe I'm expecting too much!
And yes, I do realize that this is DD's issue, and she (and I) need to work it out. My comments about the parents were not to say that this is their fault, but just a side note as part of my observations.
Littlejen22 said:

I read most of the replies but not all of them. I have a very introverted kid and it is starting to affect him socially in 1st grade. When he goes on the playground during lunch or when he has indoor recess he prefers not to talk to others, he will not talk about why but I think it is partially shyness and partially that he needs to decompress and this is his first year full-time so he does not have that alone time he had before. I am very frustrated too and don't want this to become an issue for him but I do not see this being at all the fault of the other kids. For example, we had a fund-raiser at Barnes and Noble and one of the boys from school ran up to DS and tried to get him to go with them to see what one kid was doing and DS basically ignored him because he did not want to go (yes, I know this is an issue but he is not trying to be rude and I have failed at fixing the problem), I do not fault this kid from not asking DS again next time because he clearly gave the impression he was not interested. It is not on other parents to teach their kids to keep including a child that is telling them does not want to be included (even if she really does). There are also some kids that actually want to be left alone, how do you expect the parents to teach their kid when to leave a kid alone and when to persist if the kids are acting the same?

groovygrl · November 2013

Is it possible they don't know your LO's name and that is why they don't say it? There are a couple kids in my kids' class who typically aren't there when I do drop off & pick up so if on a random day those kids are there when I am, I wouldn't know their name w/ their face. I am the kind of person who asks kids their names or asks my kids what the kid's name is so I'd try to find out but I would say 40-50% of parents in my kids' class do not know my kids' names either, either b/c their kids have just started there this year or b/c they don't really make any effort to find out (esp the dads, no offense to them but most of them never seem to really engage in general). The ones who do know their names are the parents we've been in class with already for 1-2 years. There is one dad who picks up at the same time as me probably 3 days out of 5 for over a year know and I always greet his son by name and say goodbye to him, etc and I have never once heard him use my kids' names (I have twins so they're in the same class, and DS and his son play together quite a bit at school).

On that same note, I just have learned to not worry about some of hte preschool personality stuff when it comes to parents...I mean, it really blows my mind that so many ppl people completely ignore the bday party invitations and dont bother to rsvp, etc when you invite the whole class, but that seems to be normal based on conversations on here, so even though it is not what I would personally do, I guess it is just how other ppl operate. Obviously my kids have no idea about that so it doesn't really affect them in the way your situation might be, but just another example of how different parents do things.

GL!

BallSox · December 2013

I can tell you right now that the average three and four year old child does not have the mental ability to process that the fact that your daughter is ignoring them might be her way of handling the stress of meeting a new person and that she really wants to play. To imply that this is in some way the parents fault is incorrect. It is a developmental stage that does not occur for many years and even if these parents do nothing but preach this message to their young preschooler 24/7, it's not something they will grasp quickly.

Three and Four year olds developmentally live in the moment and are very egotistical (on average). Esp young threes will not usually invite someone they don't know to come play with them. Play is still parallel for a large chunk of development until they see that playing interactively with a friend benefits them in some way (more fun, friend has a desired skill or toy, etc). Once this mutual relationship has been established, then you see preference for a specific friend (even if it is short-lived).

I don't recall you saying, but did you ever turn down an invitation to join the "playgroup" and turn it down? Even as adults, rarely do we routinely approach people who have shut down our advances. If you are projecting outwards that you feel excluded from their playgroups, that (combined with the fact that your daughter doesn't seem to enjoy playing with their children) might be why they haven't made a continued effort.

meg1974 · December 2013

BallSox said:

I can tell you right now that the average three and four year old child does not have the mental ability to process that the fact that your daughter is ignoring them might be her way of handling the stress of meeting a new person and that she really wants to play. To imply that this is in some way the parents fault is incorrect. It is a developmental stage that does not occur for many years and even if these parents do nothing but preach this message to their young preschooler 24/7, it's not something they will grasp quickly.

Three and Four year olds developmentally live in the moment and are very egotistical (on average). Esp young threes will not usually invite someone they don't know to come play with them. Play is still parallel for a large chunk of development until they see that playing interactively with a friend benefits them in some way (more fun, friend has a desired skill or toy, etc). Once this mutual relationship has been established, then you see preference for a specific friend (even if it is short-lived).

I don't recall you saying, but did you ever turn down an invitation to join the "playgroup" and turn it down? Even as adults, rarely do we routinely approach people who have shut down our advances. If you are projecting outwards that you feel excluded from their playgroups, that (combined with the fact that your daughter doesn't seem to enjoy playing with their children) might be why they haven't made a continued effort.

I'm not sure if you read the previous posts, but I mentioned that I am not in any way blaming the parents. I simply mentioned that I hope parents would teach them to be inclusive. I have always taught my children to do so, so that's where I was coming from. I'm learning through this situation that not everyone pays attention to how their children treat others.

To answer your question - no, I have not been invited to participate in a play date with this particular group.

Just because DD is shy doesn't mean she doesn't enjoy playing with other children. Now that she is more comfortable with them she tries to play with them, but they tell her to go away. She says hello to them when we arrive in the morning, and they ignore her. The parents are standing right there, and this is where I feel they could step in and provide a good example (just a simple "say hello to X"). I've been making a conscious effort to "break in" to the clique, and it's harder than I thought it would be. The moms are all friendly when they're alone, but not when they are together in the group. But, I am continuing to try so that I can hopefully help DD.

meg1974 · December 2013

fredalina said:

I have always taught my children to do so, so that's where I was coming from. I'm learning through this situation that not everyone pays attention to how their children treat others.
Do you just not see how this comes across? Maybe the other kids get a "snob" vibe from her because honestly that's how you come across in this thread, as though you are doing this wonderful thing of teaching your child to be "inclusive" (a concept NO 4 year old gets) and everyone else is failing to do this wonderful thing and therefore are not good parents. I'm not trying to be mean, honestly. Maybe the "clique" gets that vibe, too, which is why it's hard to break through.

No, I honestly don't see this as being snobby. I was just trying to explain where I was coming from. I have said in many PP's that I don't expect the children to understand this. I wasn't saying I am better than them because I think about things like that - just simply stating the reason for my feelings. I never said - or implied - that they are not good parents. I feel very strongly that parents should set positive examples for their children about the way to treat others. If they don't do it, who will?

The people I have talked to about this in real life understand what I'm saying, so I guess it just isn't coming across the right way in writing. I'm not a snobby person at all. I said before that this is DD's issue and it's up to she and I to figure it out. My comments about the other parents were simply side observations about things that may or may not be contributing to the issue.

It also might be helpful to know that there are other moms who are having a hard time getting into the "clique," and that those moms are much more friendly to me. So, I'm definitely not the odd one out. It's just that the clique happens to be most of the girls in the class. DD does play with some of the boys, but she has more in common with the girls as far as what she likes to play with.

mommymegan831 · December 2013

why don't you stop trying to break into the clique? If I were you I would contact the parents of kids that DD was interested in playing with. If they want to set up a play date they will. You can also try to get friendlier with the other moms who are not part of this clique. Why is it you're all trying to get in to this clique? You realize in another year you're children will be going to kindergarden and you'll probably be dealing with different moms and different kids.

Want a personalized experience?

DD is having social issues in preschool (long)

Re: DD is having social issues in preschool (long)

Choose Another Board

Search Boards