Hot Topic Tuesday: Spanking

Missfunball · October 2013

CruiseGirl28 said:

I was spanked, but I don't remember it. My parents saying they were disappointed in something I did was the worst punishment to me. Each kid is different. DH said he's okay with spanking, but I don't know. I'm a softie, and I probably need to toughen up a little but before the baby gets here. I realize I can't let my child get away with everything.

The simple yet so effective form of punishment. My husband will probably be the best parent for disappointed discipline since he's more than likely going to be the "fun parent"

Mcsweets · October 2013

rachbaby1 said:

Instead of spanking, our parents made us eat habanero peppers. When that failed, we spent the day copying pages out of the dictionary. Innovative and effective.

OOO I had to eat soap ... and at daycare if you spit on someone they made you "fill up a cup" with spit while you sat in the corner.

sopranoali · October 2013

My mom used to make me go pick the switches myself...only did it twice but I deserved it and it worked quite effectively.

jwls84 · October 2013

I do not believe in spanking and I think most times spanking happens out of anger and discipline should be a learning opportunity for kids. All they learn is that hitting is ok. And if I ever see a parent spank a child for hitting it gets a major eye roll from me!
Using other forms of behavior modification can take time, but it is extremely effective and worth the time you put into it.

pepperedmoth · October 2013

Yeah, spanking for hitting makes my eyes roll so hard they about go into orbit.

I don't really have a problem with other people spanking, especially the swat-on-the-hand style when the kid is doing something dangerous, but I was beyond spanked as a kid --- my dad would lose his temper over tiny things (once I remember I said I'd taken a shower but he didn't believe me because I'd already dried my hair --- he LOST it and said I was lying to him) and throw me into walls hitting me and screaming at me. It was Not OK and it seriously damaged our relationship for years.

Obviously I know that not all spanking is like that but because of that experience I feel that there is no way I will ever hit my child. It's just such an emotional hair-trigger for me, yanno? If I did so in anger I'd probably start crying myself.

Anyway my mom was into creative discipline and natural consequences. If we sisters fought we had to sit in a room staring at each other until we broke into giggles and made up. If we made a mess we cleaned it up. If we did something rude or dangerous we got a lecture and an "I'm disappointed in you" which was the WORST. If we were just doing something dumb she'd warn us, and then let natural consequences assert themselves. ("The stream is cold. If you try to balance on that log you will probably fall in and then YOU will be cold. Oh look, now you did and you are. Have fun walking home like that!") If we broke a favorite toy (through carelessness or a deliberate act, not natural wear-and-tear) it wasn't replaced.

All of those strategies worked well for her and I plan to use them. Even the running into the road or electrical outlet scenarios --- why wouldn't grabbing them away from it work as well?

Anyway LIS I don't care about other folks spanking. It's a non-issue for me, really. I just know that I will do everything in my power to avoid it!

lalaith50 · October 2013

I was spanked quite a bit when I was little, and while I definitely want to spak less than that, I do still suspect I will do it a little. I think one big key is to make sure as a parent you are NEVER doing it out of anger. I need to talk to h about this more...

clo1982 · October 2013

I'm not for or against it. I think if it works for your particular child and us done in a disciplinary manner as opposed to abusive then it's totally fine. Some of the posts on here in my mind are far across that line (what posters experienced...not what they will do). I have tried it with dd and she flat out laughs at me which is terribly frustrating. I would love for the threat to just be enough! I agree with @bunnyfungo about consequences and down the toad when dd is better at cause/effect I'm hopeful that it will be sufficient as she is a smart kid....she is just not a 'pleaser.'

LaurenAsh23 · October 2013

I do not plan to spank our kids. Dh and I were spanked, but it's just not my thing. I don't have anything against parents who do it though.

On a side note, I understand the threat of it, but i hate when I hear sayings like "I'm gonna beat your butt"...that just isn't right IMO.

Yenemous · October 2013

I was spanked only a handful of times. Didn't take much before just the threat became enough for me to behave. When I got older, the "I'm so disappointed in you" line worked far better for me than any spanking ever cloud have. My sister on the other hand is an entirely different story. She was spanked over and over and it never did any good. She would laugh and say it didn't hurt. When she got older she would threaten to call DCF. My mom was a horrible disciplinarian. She was terribly abused as a child and could never bring herself to hit or otherwise punish us in any way. That was my dad's role in life. When spanking didn't work on my sister he became resourceful. Sometimes my family would play board games like monopoly or Yahtzee and she wouldn't be allowed to play. That would crush her. Games were her favorite. She wouldn't be allowed to spend the night with me at a friend's house, which would kill her too. Punishments like these worked much better on her. I responded to spanking, she did not. I truly think it just boils down to what works best for each particular child. I hope I don't have to spank because I'd much prefer to explain that actions equal consequences, but I'm not going to rule it out as a possibility.

lindsey1031 · October 2013

I have two views:
1. I have taught children of all ages, birth - 6 years without spanking. I'm talking lots of kids- classroom fulls from all different backgrounds and socio-economic status. I didn't spank them and found other ways to make them behave.
2. I was spanked and was a very defiant child despite my parents being very consistent and fair. I also know that kids respond to their parents completely differently than they do to their teachers.
Result: I'll try not to spank, but if it seems necessary, I won't feel like a bad parent for doing it. If my kid is anything like I was, it is likely to be necessary at some point in time.
Extra thought: Spanking is not appropriate until the age of 3 when children reach a certain moral development phase. They are able to appropriately attribute their actions to the response of the adult and modify the behavior. They also have the ability to show self-restraint in line with their moral thinking at that age.
Thank you Kohlberg and Piaget for figuring that out for me.

lalaith50 · October 2013

MadApple said:

Everyone keeps saying that they wouldn't "spank out of anger." I think this is a BS line.

I know for me, I PLAN to never spank out of anger, but surely, yes, i am human and imagine I will make mistakes as a parent, and perhaps spanking in anger will be one of them, and of course none of us can tell the future, BUT for you to call it a "bs line" is quite an unfair thing to say. Most likely you have never seen spanking done without anger, and your conclusion seems to be that it is therefore impossible,e but I *have* seen parents spank without the tiniest bit of anger... They are completely calm and collected, and the kid may have done something that didn't even affect the parent in any way so there would be no personal reason for the parent to be angry at the kid (just to set the stage for the example,) and the parent sits the kid down and says, "I love you and I'm very disappointed in your behavior for doing xyz, and because this was a very bad thing for you to have done, you are going to get a spanking bc you know that is the consequence for doing very bad things deliberately in this house." Etc.
You are free to disagree with the choice to spank in such a situation, but there is no way you can possibly be able to read that parents mind to KNOW they were spanking out of anger. Similar, how can you make a sweeping judgement that everyone who is *planning* on not spanking out of anger absolutely will?

LiFeIsAmIrAcLe · October 2013

Oh what a fun topic

I could write pages and pages about this topic. I've definitely seen both ends of the spectrum.

I guess if we're putting into anti-spanking or pro-spanking terms, I would be considered pro-spanking. There are so many "rules and regulations" that go hand in hand with spanking, in order for it to be a "good thing" in my mind.

First of all, it 100% depends on the child.

My DH and I were both spanked as kids, and neither of us feel like we were done injustice. I'm actually thankful for the upbringing my parents tried to give me. But back to my point about it depending on the child......I was the type of child that my parents could just look at me with disappointment in their eyes, or give me "that look" that I better stop, and I would be heart-broken. Literally that's all it took. I can count on one hand the spankings I got that I can remember, and Iwould definitely say I deserved them. DH was the same. Very easily taught and disciplined. HOWEVER, his older brother AND mine, were extremely defiantchildren. It didn't matter what was done. Nothing worked. And they went through stages where even being spanked did nothing but made them angrier. So my parents had to experiment with punishments as they got older. That's why I think it definitely depends on the child. Some children can be disciplined bysimply talking with them. Some do well with time-out. But some REALLY DO NEED a good spanking.

Secondly, I think it depends on what was done wrong.

Not every mistake that a kid makes merits a spanking. I think spanking should be reserved for things that you want the kid to know IS SERIOUS. In my mind that is things like direct disobedience, telling an "in your face" lie, things that put them in danger, etc.

Thirdly, (and this is a huge thing for me), I believe spanking must be done in the right spirit.

I can remember times with my older brother that he was so defiant, and my parents were so angry by his outbursts and disrespect, that he would sit on the couch waiting for his punishment for 45 minutes to 1 hour before my parents would feel like they could spank him without abusing him out of anger. When you're angry, the whole concept of spanking changes. I think that's the type of abusive spanking that instills fear of a parent into a child. I never questioned my parents love when I was spanked. In fact, I can remember a time that I was spanked and my Dad finished with tears in his eyes because he literally hated doing it. And I also remember that after every spanking I received, my Mom or Dad would hug me, ask me to explain why I was spanked, and they would tell me that famous parent line " I only do it because I love you." lol

Fourthly, I think it's a big deal what type of "instrument" you use when spanking.

I think you should never use something that will leave marks or bruises on your child. That's why I even hate paddles. I've seen a lot of posts that people are against switches, but honestly, that was something my parents used on me that did the job without leaving abusive marks and didn't risk internally hurting something. It just stung a little and made me re-think my actions.

Fifthly, I'm a STRONG believer that parents should present a united front when it comes to discipline.

I don't think that either Mom or Dad should be stuck being the bad guy all the time. I think whoever is present when the child does something meriting a spanking, should be the parent that enforces the punishment. This way the child respects both equally. I've seen cases where the child completely walks all over mom but once dad gets home they become a different child (because they know Dad is the enforcer.)

Sixthly I am highly against threatening with a spanking as a last resort to scare the child.

If you're going to give them a spanking, do it. Otherwise, the first few times that technique will work, and then your child will take advantage of that threat because they will learn that it's just an empty threat.

Lastly (lol I think), I think hitting your child anywhere except for the thighs or the booty is abusive.

No one deserves to be punched or slapped around. That's not discipline. No one deserves to be pinched (I think I saw that someone on here pinches their children???), slapped across the face, shoved against walls, etc.

There's a proper and improper way to enforce spanking, and if it's not done correctly, then I am totally anti-spanking. In my mind it doesn't matter what the child did or didn't do......no human being deserves to be abused.

(edited: weird formatting??)

fish8412 · October 2013

I am against spanking. I think some parents abuse the use of spanking and over-spank because they can't control their temper/get annoyed easily. It is clear from these boards, that we all can get annoyed easily (myself included). I think spanking temporarily stops the behavior, but the best way to discipline a child is to teach them how to control their behavior. There is a lot of research that supports the idea that humans (and pets) respond better to positive reinforcement. These methods take more time and energy than spanking, but in my opinion it is worth it. I also think spanking teaches a child it is ok to hit and it is ok to be hit. It gives the child the idea that violence is a solution to a problem. These are just my opinions.

BrideNamedMeg · October 2013

MadApple said:

Everyone keeps saying that they wouldn't "spank out of anger." I think this is a BS line. Most normal people wouldn't say they are planning to hit their kid because they are mad at them.

I feel like when parents spank their kids, it is out of frustration and/or lack of skills in approaching the situation and discipline in a non-physical way. Spanking is fast and easy, but not the best way to handle a disciplinary situation. And, if you are spanking out of frustration (whether frustration in the situation itself, in your child's actions, in the thought of your child being hurt, etc.), it's still not okay. I can't imagine someone thinking about a disciplinary situation logically and deciding spanking is the best choice. You might end up teaching your child not to run out into the road because they will get spanked, but you should really be teaching them not to run out in the road because it is unsafe and they could get hit by a car/get hurt.

I also agree with those that have pointed out that spanking your child for displaying violent behavior (like hitting) is counterproductive and hypocritical. "You can't hit that kid, but I can hit you for hitting them"? Really? I know many would say "spanking" and "hitting" are different, but I view them both as "laying a hand on another person," which I absolutely will teach my children is not right.

Totally agree. We do not and will not hit our children, it's very important for us to raise them without using fear tactics.

liamandlettie · October 2013

BrideNamedMeg said:

MadApple said:

Everyone keeps saying that they wouldn't "spank out of anger." I think this is a BS line. Most normal people wouldn't say they are planning to hit their kid because they are mad at them.

I feel like when parents spank their kids, it is out of frustration and/or lack of skills in approaching the situation and discipline in a non-physical way. Spanking is fast and easy, but not the best way to handle a disciplinary situation. And, if you are spanking out of frustration (whether frustration in the situation itself, in your child's actions, in the thought of your child being hurt, etc.), it's still not okay. I can't imagine someone thinking about a disciplinary situation logically and deciding spanking is the best choice. You might end up teaching your child not to run out into the road because they will get spanked, but you should really be teaching them not to run out in the road because it is unsafe and they could get hit by a car/get hurt.

I also agree with those that have pointed out that spanking your child for displaying violent behavior (like hitting) is counterproductive and hypocritical. "You can't hit that kid, but I can hit you for hitting them"? Really? I know many would say "spanking" and "hitting" are different, but I view them both as "laying a hand on another person," which I absolutely will teach my children is not right.

Totally agree. We do not and will not hit our children, it's very important for us to raise them without using fear tactics.

I feel like this came up a looong time ago? Anyway. I agree with this. I don't hit/"spank"my son. If I did or feel like I was getting to that point then I need to remove myself and calm down. I also have a hard time believing that when someone spanks its because they are in control and NOT angry/frustrated. I also came from a household where I had to lie for my mother and we all pretended that it was normal disciplining. It started as spanking but escalated all my childhood and was very much abuse. Clearly, it was about adults being out of control and unable to deal with their own frustrations and issues. Its a touchy topic for me. There are many other ways of redirecting and disciplining. I also don't think that young toddlers/babies can understand why they are being struck or make the connection that what they are doing warranted that reaction but that hitting isn't an apporpriate retaliation for them..if that makes sense. Never good with words especially when phone bumping.

And I wasn't gonna say anything! Gah..you got me...

fish8412 · October 2013

@MadApple-I am also a teacher and against spanking. I agree that teachers have good knowledge of how to handle behavior in non-physical ways. Since we are not allowed to spank, we are trained/educated on other ways to appropriately/effectively address behavior problems. Perhaps there would be less spanking if more people (not just teachers) were aware of and trained in behavior management techniques.

Kewii · October 2013

I think it's all about finding what discipline works for your kid. I don't want to spank, but I will if I have to. For some kids time outs, disappointment, losing privileges is going to work. I hope my kid is one of those kids. But not all kids are the same and I don't feel comfortable giving an absolute like "I will never spank" or even "I will spank."

I will. however, absolutely say that I'll do whatever is best for my kid, keeps them safe, and raises them to be good, functioning adults.

ceh789 · October 2013

@MadApple - thanks for the links, definitely good reading and something to talk over with MH.

Andreabills · October 2013

bunnyfungo said:

fish8412 said:

@MadApple-I am also a teacher and against spanking. I agree that teachers have good knowledge of how to handle behavior in non-physical ways. Since we are not allowed to spank, we are trained/educated on other ways to appropriately/effectively address behavior problems. Perhaps there would be less spanking if more people (not just teachers) were aware of and trained in behavior management techniques.

I think you both bring up a really good point. If DD were ever spanked/struck by a teacher I would be livid. LIVID. Why would we, as parents, be okay with that behavior, but think it is a completely inappropriate discipline technique in any other setting?

Do all the "pro-spanking" women feel comfortable with letting another person spank your child? If not, what makes it different than if you do it?

I am a teacher as well, but I am not against spanking. I think "pro-spanking" isn't really the right term for me, but I thought I'd weigh in.

I grew up in a house that used spanking for effect and I am not scarred for life, nor do I have violent tendencies or outbursts. I plan on using timeouts, redirects, talks, etc for the great majority of my discipline, but spanking is appropriate in certain situations. Sometimes your kids need a sudden understanding that what they are doing is NOT okay. I also agree that there is no point in spanking a child until they are old enough to reason out and understand why they got punished.

As for other people besides DH and me spanking my kids, I honestly think it would depend on the person. If it was one of my sisters, mom, or MIL, I trust them to not strike out in anger when they are disciplining them. A teacher? I think it would depend on the teacher and the situation, but probably not...especially if it was in front of the class.

I think it comes down to how well I know and trust the other person, but it goes both ways. There have only been a handful of families over my 8 years of teaching that I, as a teacher, would have felt comfortable spanking their kids if the situation had come up. It never has, because I've always worked at a school with a policy against corporal punishment.

mcfife09 · October 2013

A little late but I'll get in on this one.....

I was spanked as a child and I always felt ashamed, but I'm a happy well adjusted adult. That said I was extremely sensitive to my mom, I honestly looked at her as a higher-power for so much of my life. I was very afraid of her and clung to her every emotion. My mom was overwhelmed and exhausted most of my childhood raising 3 girls as a single mom. Because of those experiences, I'm sensitive to my children's image of me. I believe your kids are relying on you to set the standards. I try my best to be calm, but firm, and happy, so far it has made for an easy parenting life. It is a delicate balance and I'm not perfect. So I do believe you can effectively parent without the use of spankings. But I understand why/how parents could get to the point of spanking.

katykatykaty · October 2013

Also a little late (and so sad about that, since I love a good debate!), but we will not be spanking. For all the reasons @madapple listed above and also just because I don't think it will accomplish anything that I can't accomplish using other non-physical methods.

LiFeIsAmIrAcLe · October 2013

bunnyfungo said:

fish8412 said:

@MadApple-I am also a teacher and against spanking. I agree that teachers have good knowledge of how to handle behavior in non-physical ways. Since we are not allowed to spank, we are trained/educated on other ways to appropriately/effectively address behavior problems. Perhaps there would be less spanking if more people (not just teachers) were aware of and trained in behavior management techniques.

I think you both bring up a really good point. If DD were ever spanked/struck by a teacher I would be livid. LIVID. Why would we, as parents, be okay with that behavior, but think it is a completely inappropriate discipline technique in any other setting?

Do all the "pro-spanking" women feel comfortable with letting another person spank your child? If not, what makes it different than if you do it?

I definitely wouldn't want a teacher doing it. I feel like its not the schools job to raise my child. That being said, if my child is with grandparents and they feel whatever she does warrants a spanking, I'm not going to be offended. That's probably the ONLY people I would be okay with spanking my child, and that's because they raised me and they raised DH and I know first hand that they're not going to abuse my baby.

TDeneeS · October 2013

I love the idea of a hot topic per week.

I will spank my child when it's warranted. There's an appropriate place and time for spanking also. My siblings and I were given time outs and spankings, depending on the situation. I think the combination was good for us. Hand smacking will start when LO starts to understand no. You can tell by how they look at you when you say no and then they slowly reach for whatever it is that they aren't supposed to touch.
I'm know discipling will be a little different from one child to the next so we will have to see what works best.

Missfunball · October 2013

bunnyfungo said:

fish8412 said:

@MadApple-I am also a teacher and against spanking. I agree that teachers have good knowledge of how to handle behavior in non-physical ways. Since we are not allowed to spank, we are trained/educated on other ways to appropriately/effectively address behavior problems. Perhaps there would be less spanking if more people (not just teachers) were aware of and trained in behavior management techniques.

I think you both bring up a really good point. If DD were ever spanked/struck by a teacher I would be livid. LIVID. Why would we, as parents, be okay with that behavior, but think it is a completely inappropriate discipline technique in any other setting?

Do all the "pro-spanking" women feel comfortable with letting another person spank your child? If not, what makes it different than if you do it?

The difference being that I don't know that person and how they think to give blanket permission. I think I have 1 person I would award that to as I trust her judgement (she has raised wonderful children, both of whom most people wouldn't guess off hand they they are autistic)

LiFeIsAmIrAcLe · October 2013

MadApple said:

bunnyfungo said:

fish8412 said:

@MadApple-I am also a teacher and against spanking. I agree that teachers have good knowledge of how to handle behavior in non-physical ways. Since we are not allowed to spank, we are trained/educated on other ways to appropriately/effectively address behavior problems. Perhaps there would be less spanking if more people (not just teachers) were aware of and trained in behavior management techniques.

I think you both bring up a really good point. If DD were ever spanked/struck by a teacher I would be livid. LIVID. Why would we, as parents, be okay with that behavior, but think it is a completely inappropriate discipline technique in any other setting?

Do all the "pro-spanking" women feel comfortable with letting another person spank your child? If not, what makes it different than if you do it?

@bunnyfungo - I'm really glad someone brought this up. I was talking with my husband about the topic last night and realized I should have included this in one of my posts.

I don't think that most parents would be okay with having their child's teacher or babysitter spank them. If you really think spanking is effective or the best punishment for some behaviors, you should be okay with anyone administering the spanking. If not, you obviously think there must be another, non-physical, way for those other people to handle the situation. Why are you holding other people to different standards? If someone else has to/can figure out a non-physical way to discipline your child, you can to. It's really not that hard.

I know people are going to be pissed at this, but I think spanking is lazy parenting. Even if you are leaving yourself open to the possibility of spanking your child, you should take the time to learn some non-physical ways to discipline. You might be surprised at how many there are. Even if you think that "every child is different" and that "it works for some kids," there will be non-physical techniques that will work with them too.

@dotgirl2 brought up another good thing. If you are having trouble handling situations in a non-physical way, you can get help or advice (from books or other people/professionals) to find other techniques that will work for your child. I think a lot of parents are embarrassed to ask for advice or help to learn discipline techniques, and that's sad. Parenting is not something that people are born knowing how to do 100%. There are hundreds of parenting books you can read and a lot of advice that can be found online. If there are any "mom groups" in your area, they often have discipline experts talk to the group. Those are some easy ways you can get advice without having to admit that you don't know everything.

Have to disagree with you on the thought that if you are pro spanking, you shouldn't hold double standards for other people watching your kids. Not sure if you read my original post on spanking, but I think there are alot of "do's and don'ts" for it to be an appropriate form of discipline. There's no way for you to know if someone else is going to spank your child appropriately.....or of its going to be abusive. Because I definitely think there IS a difference and a lot of "spanking" is abuse.

That being said I would trust my parents or his parents if they thought my child's actions merited a spanking. I know them both enough to know they would never abuse my child.

craftiemommie · October 2013

I think the problem with a teacher saying they wouldn't ever have to spank a student vs a parent spanking is that kids push boundaries differently with parents than with teachers. I can say I have no plans to spank my child, but I'm a ftm, so what do I know? I have no idea what kind of parent I'll be, so I won't pretend that I won't hit a point where I swat his butt out of frustration without really thinking about it. I can't see me inflicting actual pain though.

ProudMommy030614 · October 2013

We only had to spank my boys a few times when they were younger. Now they are old enough that when they are bad it's hard labor. We have a chicken farm and there is always something to be done!

liamandlettie · October 2013

bunnyfungo said:
@MadApple - I think I'm in lurve! This is me when reading your eloquent response to the Do's/Don'ts List:

Lol. I completely agree! You have a way with words
:x
Are you a counselor/therapist etc? You have a lot of great information.

irisheyes717 · October 2013

MadApple said:

LiFeIsAmIrAcLe said:

Have to disagree with you on the thought that if you are pro spanking, you shouldn't hold double standards for other people watching your kids. Not sure if you read my original post on spanking, but I think there are alot of "do's and don'ts" for it to be an appropriate form of discipline. There's no way for you to know if someone else is going to spank your child appropriately.....or of its going to be abusive. Because I definitely think there IS a difference and a lot of "spanking" is abuse. That being said I would trust my parents or his parents if they thought my child's actions merited a spanking. I know them both enough to know they would never abuse my child.

@LiFeIsAmirAcLe - I did read your "Do's and Dont's" post, but honestly, I think there are only Don'ts. There is absolutely no reason to spank; therefore, there is no "appropriate" way to do it. What it really boils down to is that there are other ways to handle EVERY situation that don't involve spanking (which I equate to hitting) your kid.

I'll go ahead and respond to your list explaining "When It's Okay to Hit Your Child":

"It 100% depends on the child"

What I hear when I read your explanation is, “You are more defiant than your sibling, so I can hit you to make you do what I want.” Every child can be reached in a non-physical way. Maybe your parents (and others) haven’t found what works yet. From what I have seen and experienced, parents often try the same thing over and over again and don’t get a different result and their child is then “defiant.” If you try something and it doesn’t work with your child, you need to try something else. Again, every child can be reached in a non-physical way.

"It depends on what what was done wrong"

You don’t have to spank your child to show them that what they did is serious.” You give “direct disobedience” a “direct lie” and things that put them in danger as examples of when it’s okay to spank. For the first two, you are in essence spanking to show your child that you have control of them and can dominate them through physical means. You are spanking because they are challenging you. For the third one, you are saying, I don’t want you to hurt yourself, but I am going to hurt you to show you that.

"It must be done in the right spirit"

Most children are not “questioning their parents love” when they are being spanked, but that doesn’t mean that they won’t have negative feelings or fear. If a child is expecting any kind of physical punishment, even if they don’t show they are scared, they are. No one wants to be hit or spanked. Giving a hug or saying, “I love you” after spanking does not negate that fact that you just laid a hand on your child. “I only hit you because I love you” is the biggest piece of BS ever. And we wonder people get stuck in abusive relationships (but that’s another topic).

If your parents were in tears after spanking you, thinking to themselves, “I hate doing this,” shouldn’t that be a sign that something is not right with the act itself?

"What type of instrument you use matters"

No, it doesn’t. Again, spanking is never necessary, so no instrument is okay or better or nicer.

"Present a united front when it comes to discipline"

I agree in general with the idea that parents need to be on the same page with how discipline will be conducted and that you should present a united front, but that has nothing to do with whether or not you should spank. It should be common knowledge that children need consistency, and parents that can’t agree or are not consistent are doing more harm than good when they try to discipline.

This point on your list is more about who has to be the bad guy (i.e. The Spanker). This one is very easy if you don’t spank. Neither of you have to be The Spanker.

"I'm against threatening with spanking as a last resort to scare the child"

I agree that you should not give empty threats in an attempt to get a child to comply. With that said, I don’t think threating to spank/hit your child or spanking/hitting your child is the appropriate avenue to take when it comes to discipline in general.

"Hitting your child anywhere except the thighs and booty is abusive"

Again, I don’t think it is necessary to ever hit or spank your child, so where it happens really isn’t a defining factor for me.

I don’t call people out when I see them spanking their children, but I do agree that any of the other actions you listed would be especially heinous in my eyes and I would view those acts as straight up abuse.

@craftymommie – I agree that children push boundaries with their parents and their teachers differently, but that does not mean that parents need to spank their child.

I’ll say it again - There are other ways to handle EVERY situation that don't involve spanking. Before you even get to the point where you feel like you might want to/need to spank your child, try to learn some other discipline techniques that don’t involve putting your hands on your child.

ETA: Sorry about the weird spacing. I had to type it up in Word and c&p so I wouldn't accidentally lose what I had written.

I've been following your posts, and while I don't necessarily agree with you, I certainly respect your opinion, as well as the extensive body of research you have to back up your decision not to spank your child.

That being said, I don't agree with your reasoning that not spanking, but otherwise disciplining, a child somehow makes the behavior less rooted in dominance (relevant bits highlighted above). At the end of the day, we are the parents. We do know better than children in many instances (e.g. the oft-cited example of a child running carelessly across a street), and any punishment or corrective behavior we deem appropriate is meant to communicate this information to our child. Whether we do this physically (spanking) or emotionally (taking away toys, sending a child to time out, grounding), we are still asserting our dominance over our child. In some ways, too, both disciplinary methods are designed to instill fear (albeit to different degrees). The idea is that we do something to or take something from our child so that he or she does not repeat the behavior in the future; when a similar situation arises, he or she will remember--and, implicitly, be afraid of--the consequences, and will act in a manner more in line with our expectations.

Put another way, when we screw up at work, we're pretty sure our boss isn't going to retaliate physically. However, we still might be afraid that we might get fired, demoted, or otherwise disciplined. If we care about our jobs, this fear will--hopefully--lead us to not repeat the behavior in the future.

This may just be an issue of semantics. Your phrasing may just have rubbed me the wrong way because I see parents treating their children as "friends" or "buddies" all the time, and it drives me nuts. We're the parents, and we have a responsibility to instill positive behavior and values in our children--often by attaching various forms of punishment to negative behaviors. And I think that's okay. I guess I just take slight issue with the idea that one form of punishment is somehow less dominance-based than another.

lizardknitter · October 2013

I'm way late to this party. And I am not super active on this board. But I thought I'd weigh in on such a juicy topic. We don't spank. Ever.
I have a ~2.5 year old DD who is very busy. Without the use of spanking or time-outs, she is 90% cooperative and listens when I ask her to comply with things. We have talked about dangers in the environment since she was born. She knows that cars can hit and hurt her so she willingly stays beside me in parking lots or near the street. She knows that hurting others is wrong and that we should all be kind. And that I ask her to do things so that we can have fun together and be safe. So she is compliant without spanking.
I saw it said this way once: everywhere you see the word "child/kid" in a discussion about spanking being a good tool, replace it with "wife." Would you agree to it then?
Read "NurtureShock" (book). It has some great info.

Shobb414 · October 2013

rubyzuzu said:
I'm absolutely for spanking - but only done sparingly and never when you're frustrated or angry. And of course I feel it necessary to clearly explain to the child WHY they are being spanked.

This! We ONLY got a spanking when we really effed up and we knew it! So this is what I'll do, it will also not be used for humiliation so I won't spank my child at Walmart or anything, that's something that happens at home or similar.

LiFeIsAmIrAcLe · October 2013

MadApple said:

LiFeIsAmIrAcLe said:

Have to disagree with you on the thought that if you are pro spanking, you shouldn't hold double standards for other people watching your kids. Not sure if you read my original post on spanking, but I think there are alot of "do's and don'ts" for it to be an appropriate form of discipline. There's no way for you to know if someone else is going to spank your child appropriately.....or of its going to be abusive. Because I definitely think there IS a difference and a lot of "spanking" is abuse. That being said I would trust my parents or his parents if they thought my child's actions merited a spanking. I know them both enough to know they would never abuse my child.

@LiFeIsAmirAcLe - I did read your "Do's and Dont's" post, but honestly, I think there are only Don'ts. There is absolutely no reason to spank; therefore, there is no "appropriate" way to do it. What it really boils down to is that there are other ways to handle EVERY situation that don't involve spanking (which I equate to hitting) your kid.

I'll go ahead and respond to your list explaining "When It's Okay to Hit Your Child":

"It 100% depends on the child"

What I hear when I read your explanation is, “You are more defiant than your sibling, so I can hit you to make you do what I want.” Every child can be reached in a non-physical way. Maybe your parents (and others) haven’t found what works yet. From what I have seen and experienced, parents often try the same thing over and over again and don’t get a different result and their child is then “defiant.” If you try something and it doesn’t work with your child, you need to try something else. Again, every child can be reached in a non-physical way.

"It depends on what what was done wrong"

You don’t have to spank your child to show them that what they did is serious.” You give “direct disobedience” a “direct lie” and things that put them in danger as examples of when it’s okay to spank. For the first two, you are in essence spanking to show your child that you have control of them and can dominate them through physical means. You are spanking because they are challenging you. For the third one, you are saying, I don’t want you to hurt yourself, but I am going to hurt you to show you that.

"It must be done in the right spirit"

Most children are not “questioning their parents love” when they are being spanked, but that doesn’t mean that they won’t have negative feelings or fear. If a child is expecting any kind of physical punishment, even if they don’t show they are scared, they are. No one wants to be hit or spanked. Giving a hug or saying, “I love you” after spanking does not negate that fact that you just laid a hand on your child. “I only hit you because I love you” is the biggest piece of BS ever. And we wonder people get stuck in abusive relationships (but that’s another topic).

If your parents were in tears after spanking you, thinking to themselves, “I hate doing this,” shouldn’t that be a sign that something is not right with the act itself?

"What type of instrument you use matters"

No, it doesn’t. Again, spanking is never necessary, so no instrument is okay or better or nicer.

"Present a united front when it comes to discipline"

I agree in general with the idea that parents need to be on the same page with how discipline will be conducted and that you should present a united front, but that has nothing to do with whether or not you should spank. It should be common knowledge that children need consistency, and parents that can’t agree or are not consistent are doing more harm than good when they try to discipline.

This point on your list is more about who has to be the bad guy (i.e. The Spanker). This one is very easy if you don’t spank. Neither of you have to be The Spanker.

"I'm against threatening with spanking as a last resort to scare the child"

I agree that you should not give empty threats in an attempt to get a child to comply. With that said, I don’t think threating to spank/hit your child or spanking/hitting your child is the appropriate avenue to take when it comes to discipline in general.

"Hitting your child anywhere except the thighs and booty is abusive"

Again, I don’t think it is necessary to ever hit or spank your child, so where it happens really isn’t a defining factor for me.

I don’t call people out when I see them spanking their children, but I do agree that any of the other actions you listed would be especially heinous in my eyes and I would view those acts as straight up abuse.

@craftymommie – I agree that children push boundaries with their parents and their teachers differently, but that does not mean that parents need to spank their child.

I’ll say it again - There are other ways to handle EVERY situation that don't involve spanking. Before you even get to the point where you feel like you might want to/need to spank your child, try to learn some other discipline techniques that don’t involve putting your hands on your child.

ETA: Sorry about the weird spacing. I had to type it up in Word and c&p so I wouldn't accidentally lose what I had written.

I definitely respect your opinion and I feel like you've put a lot of thought and preparation into the way you want to parent. I think that's awesome. All of your arguments against my former statements pretty much boil down to your opinion that spanking isn't okay.....which is fine! No issues there. I know alot of parents who go both ways and to each their own.

I still feel like my DH and I are making the right decision when it comes to the way we will discipline and raise our children.

irisheyes717 · October 2013

@MadApple - Fair enough. Like I said, I think it was just a semantics issue for me.

I appreciate all of your posts. As you said, I don't think this thread will change anyone's mind. However, it has made me think more critically about alternative disciplinary methods for my child. I'm a first-time mom, so I can't say for sure what I'll do until it's time for my child to be disciplined. However, I at least plan to be more prepared with different disciplinary options when the time comes.

Excitedmum35 · October 2013

My DS is nearly 6 and we have never spanked him. We talk to him about things if there is an issue and we tell him no a lot. He isn't scared of us and I don't want him to be.
This is a conscience decision I made after parenting my EXTREMELY difficult daughter for 15 yrs (diagnosed bipolar and borderline personality). I felt that spanking actually made her worse.
But that's my life experience- I understand everyone has different opinions.
I hope we're bringing up a child who is able to regulate his behaviour himself- not with the threat of pain.

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