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Down in the Dumps with AP. :(

MommyPhoenixMommyPhoenix member
edited October 2013 in Attachment Parenting
I'm questioning whether I went about APing, specifically bedsharing and nursing in the right way. I love this gentle parenting style but a couple of unsolicited comments lately from family has put me in a bit of a funk...calling my DD "clingy" and must be "my fault" for using AP and not taking her to open gym to play with other kids...this and a bad case of "Momsomnia" has got me questioning my parenting choices :( I'm hoping you lovely Mamas may have some sage advice?

My DD just turned 8 mos. DH and I have raised her AP style from day one and love it. We started cosleeping from the start (bassinet and crib in our room) and then transitioned to bedsharing a short while after. When DD was a couple mos old, after hours of trying to get her to sleep, we fell asleep in bed, side nursing..a couple of hours later, I woke up to find DD fast asleep all snuggled against me and thought "This is AWESOME! Why haven't I done this before?!" DD has always been a crappy napper and difficult to put down for bed but ever since that night of accidental bedsharing, I've been side-nursing DD to sleep this way and she's been great for 12 hrs of bedtime sleep and she naps well (3-4 times a day, 30mins - 1.5 hrs sometimes).

Now for the "problem"...DD still wakes up at night every 2hrs or so. She'll wake up whining and I'll usually shimmy over and offer a breast which she takes and after 5-10 mins or so, she's back asleep. She seems content with this, but this also means that I am up every couple of hours and it takes me a bit longer to fall back asleep, just to wake up again in less than 2 hrs (therein lies the problem) - Is this normal? Do/did you other bedsharing Mamas go through this with your LOs at 8 mos old? She is actually nursing (I can hear her swallowing) but I thought she would be STTN if not at least sleep a longer stretch by now. I've tried just shushing her back to sleep which works sometimes but there is a fine balance in timing where if that doesn't work, it's either the boob or she's wide awake and up to play at 3am. The other issue is that DD is a really light sleeper and although she's napping well, she is attached to my boob the entire time and I have to stay with her or the nap's over (I've tried slinking away many times before and it never works). I've tried feeding her first on a nursing pillow and then putting her down in her crib but she'll either bawl or think it's playtime. This makes if hard to go anywhere with her without missing a nap. She is teething and going through what I thought was just stranger anxiety (or this is just what I tell myself to get me through the hard times ;) ).

I just want to know, is it normal for DD at 8mos to still be nursing throughout the night? How can I get her to nap on her own? I'm not even sure if this is a "problem" per se and I'm happy to keep on this path since it makes DD so happy (big toothy giggles!), I guess it just seems in my circle of family/friends that I'm the only one "suffering" and I just need to know if I'm working against her future independence and making her "clingy". TIA :)

 

    

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Re: Down in the Dumps with AP. :(

  • eriannc22eriannc22 member
    I'm in the same boat. My 8 month old is the exact same for naps and at night. He is very clingy and high needs and always has been. I have definitely been feeling the burn out the last couple weeks because he's been sick.

    I don't have the gift of hindsight for you, but I don't believe you are doing anything to contribute to your baby's needy personality. You are doing a great job meeting her needs. I know it's hard. I never imagined having such a high needs baby and it has turned my life upside down.

    I think the payout down the road is going to be great though. Plus don't our babies have the best smiles and giggles? People are always blown away by my son's smile. Hang in there mama! I've heard some babies start to turn a corner at 9 months.


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  • blu-eyedwifeblu-eyedwife member
    Teething is a bitch.  I'm not going to even try to sugar coat it.  No matter how well my son slept at night, when he was teething, it was innumerable wakeups (that's an exaggeration, but he woke every hour on some nights).  So keep that in mind to begin with.

    However, every 2 hours has got to be exhausting for you, and it sounds like this isn't necessarily just related to teething if it's been going on for 8 months.  I don't believe in the "every baby should be sleeping through the night by X months" but again, a longer stretch would probably be nice for you!  Are you against the pacifier?  It's entirely possible she's waking to eat (at 8 months my son still woke up once a night to eat) but it could also be comfort sucking (even if she's eating - nursing does have some effect on teething pain).  I just wonder if she's having difficulty transitioning between sleep cycles and needs a little help.  Right now she's using you, but maybe a pacifier would be a good substitute if you're willing to go for it.  It might also help her transition into a deeper sleep, which could be helpful for naps.

    But advice aside, I don't think anything you're doing is wrong.  I don't think there's anything wrong with her.  And I don't think APing is going to do ANY damage to your daughter.  If it works for you, try not to let what other people say get to you.  Everyone has an opinion on how to raise YOUR kids, but in reality the only opinions that really matters are those of you and your husband.
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  • ncbellencbelle member
    I don't think what you are describing is atypical but I also think there are some small changes that you could make that might help you.  I'd suggest checking out the No Cry Sleep Solution as she discusses how you can help baby sleep without needing the breast constantly.  I didn't mind night nursing but couldn't personally take having a baby who needed to stay attached to stay asleep - so we gently worked away from that need using the Pantley Pull off that she describes in the book.

    As for if it's a "problem" - only if you are feeling that it is for you.  It matters not what anyone else has to say about the issue!!  Both of my babies nursed throughout the night (going through various wakeful periods) until well past 1.


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  • ReeceFamilyReeceFamily member
    My DD (almost 9 mos) is doing the exact. same. thing right now.  It's driving me crazy, and I've been experiencing some of the same feelings you are experiencing :).  I am noticing that she has gotten taller lately, and I'm assuming there are numerous other changes on the horizon (teething, she is working like crazy on trying to stand/walk) - so I am trying to be patient and chalk it up to that.

    We should agree to check back in in a few weeks to see if things are better!
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  • ReeceFamilyReeceFamily member
    Oh - one thing I am trying to do is to try other soothing methods before I give her the boob :).  I try just holding her on my chest, patting her back, etc.  And then inevitably 5 minutes later I give her the boob :).  I'm hoping that maybe, gradually/over time, she'll end up dropping a feeding or two.
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  • PhieryBFlyPhieryBFly member
    Stranger anxiety peaks around 8 or 9 months. I think that would be your main culprit. You can tell your family that this is a natural phase of baby development and to kindly keep their criticism to themselves.

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  • MommyPhoenixMommyPhoenix member
    Wow, you Ladies are so awesome! Thanks so much for the support. I'm relieved to hear I am not alone with this! Deep down, I know I would never change from AP. It's just some of those days where things culminate and you second guess yourself. At least I know DD is a happy clam with the smiles and giggle feedback I get from her :). I love her to pieces and would do anything for her but the trying days (and nights) are hard to get through without questioning yourself. It's hard to talk about AP with others who don't understand it and you can't very well ignore questions too when people ask "Does she sleep through the night?" I get that question sooo many times *stab me in the eye with a fork* ~X(

    You've all given me some great tips and support and yes to ReeceFamily about the check in - Hopefully, just maybe??...we'll be laughing about this down the road [-O<

     

        

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  • MommyPhoenixMommyPhoenix member
    PhieryBFly said:

    Stranger anxiety peaks around 8 or 9 months. I think that would be your main culprit. You can tell your family that this is a natural phase of baby development and to kindly keep their criticism to themselves.


    Thanks for the links! Yeah, family comments! :( It doesn't help that my sister has a DD who is 4 mos older than mine and of course she has to say to me "My DD is fine...she's always been great with people...she's not clingy..." Blah, blah, blah! Yes, you have a wonderful child, thanks for putting down mine!
    %-(

     

        

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  • nosoup4unosoup4u member
    Both my kids woke every few hours to nurse through about 12+ months (it was closer to 18 mos with DS1. DS1 also wanted to nap on my boob at that age, but looking back, we lived in a place that was very bright during the day. We had a darker room with blackout curtains for DS2, and he was a lot easier to sneak off from. If your bedroom isn't very dark during the day, that could be part of the problem. That, and make sure you have some sort of white noise on so you can sneak out easier.

    No worries on the clingy baby comments, DS1 has always been shy, and was the same when he was a baby. It has nothing todo with parenting styles.
    DS1 - Feb 2008

    DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)

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  • PhieryBFlyPhieryBFly member
    MommyPhoenix said:
    Stranger anxiety peaks around 8 or 9 months. I think that would be your main culprit. You can tell your family that this is a natural phase of baby development and to kindly keep their criticism to themselves.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranger_anxiety
    https://www.babycenter.com/0_developmental-milestone-separation-and-independence_6577.bc  
    Thanks for the links! Yeah, family comments! :( It doesn't help that my sister has a DD who is 4 mos older than mine and of course she has to say to me "My DD is fine...she's always been great with people...she's not clingy..." Blah, blah, blah! Yes, you have a wonderful child, thanks for putting down mine! %-(

    My brother and sister-in-law had a son two days before I had my daughter. For being related and the same age, they are so different that they seem different species. It's pointless to compare but that's hard to not do at times. If your sister has an easier child than you, then she's not had the experiences you've had and is not qualified to comment just as I'm not really qualified on commenting on my nephew. Remind her that every child is different.
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  • =Lee=B=Lee=B member

    7.5months nursing every 2 hours round the clock.  And, I mean every 2hrs not 2hrs05min or 1hr55min I swear the kid has a build in alarm clock that goes off in full force at 2hr00min00sec! 

    She actively nurses, gulping back a full feed.  My milk is very forceful I can hear it spraying in her mouth as she gulps.  I have tried at times to just give her soother.  She happily falls right back to sleep, but then she wakes 20min later.  I get more sleep by just feeding the first time.  Luckily she and I barely wake for the feeds.  She also sleeps through almost anything most days...so I hang out in the bed on my laptop beside her without disrupting her sleep and I can come and go as I like.

    Can you try using white noise and other sleep things to help you escape more?

     

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  • MommyPhoenixMommyPhoenix member
    =Lee=B said:

    7.5months nursing every 2 hours round the clock.  And, I mean every 2hrs not 2hrs05min or 1hr55min I swear the kid has a build in alarm clock that goes off in full force at 2hr00min00sec! 

    She actively nurses, gulping back a full feed.  My milk is very forceful I can hear it spraying in her mouth as she gulps.  I have tried at times to just give her soother.  She happily falls right back to sleep, but then she wakes 20min later.  I get more sleep by just feeding the first time.  Luckily she and I barely wake for the feeds.  She also sleeps through almost anything most days...so I hang out in the bed on my laptop beside her without disrupting her sleep and I can come and go as I like.

    Can you try using white noise and other sleep things to help you escape more?

    Built-in-Alarm clock in your LO too?? ;) Oh, I can only dream of naps like that! She's been sleeping to white noise for most of her life (naps and night). I've also tried breaking her latch once she's fallen asleep...the times I've been successful, I've tried slinking away like a ninja, only to have her wake 5-10 mins later. It's weird though...at bedtime, once she's nursed herself drowsy and has had enough, she'll pop off my breast and roll over to sleep. She will do that during the night feedings as well....why can't she do that for naps?? I'm thinking she just doesn't get into a deep enough sleep. Light sleeper, like her Mama.

     

        

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  • MommyPhoenixMommyPhoenix member
    musicalmama5 said:

    I have a few things to say to you. :)


    1) You are an awesome mom! OK, now that we've established that...

    2) AP doesn't make babies clingy or high-needs. We bedshare, babywear, breastfeed, and respond to every cue, and DS is very independent. I don't say this in a bad or insensitive way; I just want to illustrate that you are not making your baby clingy by your parenting style. In fact, by giving her what she needs now, you are probably helping her to be more independent later on. I know it's hard to think long-term when you're in the trenches like you are, but picturing her as a walking talking toddler might help. :)

    3) Take this with a grain of salt, because it probably goes against every sleep book out there, and I only have a sample size of 1 (my DS), but maybe your DD is taking too many naps. DS is only a couple weeks younger than your DD, and he's already down to 2 naps a day. He was a very light sleeper, but now that we've cut back on the naps and he really only naps when he's really tired, he's nearly unrousable and he also sleeps better at night. Maybe that's crazy, but it might be worth a shot.

    4) Don't change your parenting style because of other people' opinions. You know yourself and your DD better than anyone. Only you can make the hard decisions. 

    5) You might be in a wonder week.

    Good luck!
    Does your DS nap at a regular time or just whenever he seems to need it? I don't force DDs naps, we just lay to nurse and she ends up falling asleep.

     

        

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  • Mrs.AmyDylanMrs.AmyDylan member
    Hugs. I'm in the same boat trying to get things sorted out, so high fives to the AP moms with the all night boobie buffet. I try to tell myself that at least I'm getting skinny while I sleep?! J is almost 10mo and we are still struggling with night wakings 4-8x/night. I have no advice, just a nod of solidarity.

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  • spratt3spratt3 member
    Ignore the clingy baby comments! At 8 months, your baby is sound exactly what she should be doing (she's depending on her mother to make her feel better when she's upset). She's *supposed* to be clingy! She's a baby!

    Honestly, I never understood this expectation that babies should be able to self-sooth. They don't even start understanding that other people have needs until age 2, or that they are separate people to their parents before age 1. At 8 months, you are definitely not affecting her personality.

    This might make you feel better: I breastfeed until I was 3 (not exclusively, but I weaned when I was ready), and I slept in my parent's bed until age 7 (I remember the day when I decided that I wanted to sleep in my own bed). Not saying this is how I would parent (exactly), but it's how I was raised. I was very attached to my mom, and people used to tell her that she'd "ruined me" and I would never be independent. Guess what? I went to college in a state across the country, and now live in a different nation (across an ocean) from my parents. We still have a wonderful relationship and I have great relationships with my husband and friends.

    My advice: ignore the well meaning advice from people who don't know your baby as well as you do, and stop worrying. You sound like a great mom.
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  • musicalmama5musicalmama5 member
    MommyPhoenix said:
    I have a few things to say to you. :)

    1) You are an awesome mom! OK, now that we've established that...

    2) AP doesn't make babies clingy or high-needs. We bedshare, babywear, breastfeed, and respond to every cue, and DS is very independent. I don't say this in a bad or insensitive way; I just want to illustrate that you are not making your baby clingy by your parenting style. In fact, by giving her what she needs now, you are probably helping her to be more independent later on. I know it's hard to think long-term when you're in the trenches like you are, but picturing her as a walking talking toddler might help. :)

    3) Take this with a grain of salt, because it probably goes against every sleep book out there, and I only have a sample size of 1 (my DS), but maybe your DD is taking too many naps. DS is only a couple weeks younger than your DD, and he's already down to 2 naps a day. He was a very light sleeper, but now that we've cut back on the naps and he really only naps when he's really tired, he's nearly unrousable and he also sleeps better at night. Maybe that's crazy, but it might be worth a shot.

    4) Don't change your parenting style because of other people' opinions. You know yourself and your DD better than anyone. Only you can make the hard decisions. 

    5) You might be in a wonder week.

    Good luck!
    Does your DS nap at a regular time or just whenever he seems to need it? I don't force DDs naps, we just lay to nurse and she ends up falling asleep.
    Definitely NOT regular times! Sometimes it drives me crazy how unscheduled he is. ;)

    Maybe you could try nursing sitting up? If she's just super comfy and relaxed every time she nurses, maybe she's nodding off but not actually in need of a nap? Also, if DS wakes up when I sneak away, I figure he's not ready for a nap yet, and I let him keep playing til he's really tired. 
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  • JJ_13JJ_13 member
    edited October 2013

    I think others have given you good advice so I will make this brief:

    1) You have two separate issues here - the family comments/AP-ing/"clingy" kid and, separately, your LO's sleep "problems".

    A) The family comments etc are crap. Try to ignore them. You are parenting with love and that's really all that matters, especiallya t 8 months old. You are not making your child clingy or un-independent or anything like that. Try to ignore them and remain confident in your parenting choices.

    B) When it comes to sleep, I readily admit that I am not as AP-ish as some mamas on this board, so here's my take: I do think every 2 hours at 8 months old is a lot. I don't think there's anything *wrong* with it per se - except for the fact that you may be exhausted. If there's not a problem, then there's nothing to fix, and there's only a problem if one or more of the people in your household are unhappy. So, if you don't mind waking every 2 hours to feed then there's no problem. None at all. However, if, like me, you have trouble getting back to sleep and can't sleep well with LO right there, waking up a lot, then you start to slide towards the "problem" end of the spectrum. My LO was waking multiple, multiple times/night, had been for over a couple of months and I was utterly exhausted, so at 7 months we did a modified sleep-lady-shuffle and helped my LO teach her self to go to sleep (with us beside her, rubbing her back and "shh-ing" at first, and then gradually withdrawing but never leaving her to cry). We still go to her when she cries (she's almost 11 months) and I still nurse her 1 - 3 times/night. I can handle this. I'm not exhausted. I couldn't handle the 5 - 8 wake ups per night. Do this gentle "sleep-shaping" cut down on her wake ups significantly and means that I can put her down drowsy but awake and she rolls over, jabbers for a minute or two and drifts off. I will add that this is when we transitioned her to her room as well. So, it's all about deciding what you need to make your family function reasonably well. There are lots of different options out there in terms of where to sleep/whether to sleep train/how to do so if you choose to do so, etc., etc. You'll know when/if you've reached the end of your rope and can then figure out the best, consistent way to make a change for your LO and your family.

    Be confident in your decision to raise your LO with love and respect. You are NOT creating any problems and are generating a healthy, loving attachment with your child. Good luck!

     

    ETA: OK, so that wasn't really brief. :-/

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  • URMySunshine77URMySunshine77 member
    Mrs.AmyDylan said:
    Hugs. I'm in the same boat trying to get things sorted out, so high fives to the AP moms with the all night boobie buffet. I try to tell myself that at least I'm getting skinny while I sleep?! J is almost 10mo and we are still struggling with night wakings 4-8x/night. I have no advice, just a nod of solidarity.

    @mommyphoenix you have a PM. 
    We are also in the same boat at nearly nine months. LO was walking every three hours to nurse. He recently switched up to every two hours. I think this is a growth spurt, though, as he started eating every two hours during the day and taking three naps again.

    My mom keeps telling me magical stories about how she made my sisters and I follow her routine, and we slept through the night after one month. I'm learning very quickly to shut out everyone else's mothering noise. What works in our own hearts is most important. <3

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  • musicalmama5musicalmama5 member
    URMySunshine77 said:
    Mrs.AmyDylan said:
    Hugs. I'm in the same boat trying to get things sorted out, so high fives to the AP moms with the all night boobie buffet. I try to tell myself that at least I'm getting skinny while I sleep?! J is almost 10mo and we are still struggling with night wakings 4-8x/night. I have no advice, just a nod of solidarity.

    @mommyphoenix you have a PM. 
    We are also in the same boat at nearly nine months. LO was walking every three hours to nurse. He recently switched up to every two hours. I think this is a growth spurt, though, as he started eating every two hours during the day and taking three naps again.

    My mom keeps telling me magical stories about how she made my sisters and I follow her routine, and we slept through the night after one month. I'm learning very quickly to shut out everyone else's mothering noise. What works in our own hearts is most important. <3
    She might be forgetting what it was really like...... ;)
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  • URMySunshine77URMySunshine77 member
    musicalmama5 said:
    URMySunshine77 said:
    Mrs.AmyDylan said:
    Hugs. I'm in the same boat trying to get things sorted out, so high fives to the AP moms with the all night boobie buffet. I try to tell myself that at least I'm getting skinny while I sleep?! J is almost 10mo and we are still struggling with night wakings 4-8x/night. I have no advice, just a nod of solidarity.

    @mommyphoenix you have a PM. 
    We are also in the same boat at nearly nine months. LO was walking every three hours to nurse. He recently switched up to every two hours. I think this is a growth spurt, though, as he started eating every two hours during the day and taking three naps again.

    My mom keeps telling me magical stories about how she made my sisters and I follow her routine, and we slept through the night after one month. I'm learning very quickly to shut out everyone else's mothering noise. What works in our own hearts is most important. <3
    She might be forgetting what it was really like...... ;)
    I think you're right!

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  • ReeceFamilyReeceFamily member
    Mrs.AmyDylan said:
    Hugs. I'm in the same boat trying to get things sorted out, so high fives to the AP moms with the all night boobie buffet. I try to tell myself that at least I'm getting skinny while I sleep?! J is almost 10mo and we are still struggling with night wakings 4-8x/night. I have no advice, just a nod of solidarity.

    @mommyphoenix you have a PM. 
    This has definitely been a side benefit of the all-night boob cafe for me.  I was a size 12 post-baby and am now a size 6.  It's going to be a shock when she eventually weans and I can no longer eat whatever I want to!
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