How big of a deal is this?

CFjo2010 · September 2013

Yesterday when I picked K up from school, someone in the office asked me how her Dr appt went. I knew nothing about a Dr appt so I asked the clerk what she meant and she said that K was signed in late because of a Dr appt. I looked at the tardy sheet and sure as hell, K was an hour and a half late for school and BM wrote "Dr appt" as the reason. The way our insurance is set up, all the "after care summaries" are emailed to me (mine, DH's, DS, DD, K, PJ). I never received one yesterday for K so I know she didn't have an appt. When K and I got to the car I asked her why she was late (not in an accusatory tone) and she said she had a Dr appt. I said, "Really? Because normally I receive an email and I didn't get one today." Then she changed the story to, "Well me and my mom went and ran errands and then she brought me late". So I asked K why she told me she had a Dr appt and she says, "Well I thought I had one". Um, how does a 7 year old think they have an appt when they never went to an appt? I reprimanded K for lying to me, and told her that it's never ok to lie to adults, especially not to DH, me or BM. K promptly responds with, "But my mom told me to".

DH and I are pretty pissed. I don't appreciate being lied to, and I especially don't think it's ok for BM to flat out tell K to lie to me and DH. DH is pissed that BM told K to lie to us and that BM is lying to the school about K's whereabouts. He went in this morning and got copies of K's sign in/out sheet and tardy sheets. BM is pulling K out practically once a week again and claiming that K has Dr appts or dentist appts. K is 7 and in 2nd grade.

So here's the question I guess: aside from K constantly being pulled out of school and being late all the time, how big of a deal does DH make about BM telling K to lie to us? My concern is that if K is being told to lie to us about why she's late for school, what else is she being told to lie to us about? There have been several times when we try and have normal conversations with K and her answer to questions is, "I don't remember". I mean really simple questions like, "Did you have a good time this weekend? What kind of stuff did you do?", "What movie did you go see with your friend?", etc.

sweetwalks · September 2013

Because of the hostile environment with BM I hesitate to bring up her telling K to lie...because we all know how she treats K regarding your house. Keep doing what you did & make sure K knows its ok for her to tell you & DH the truth. Be her safe place, if you bring it up to BM it will ruin that.

With the school attendance, that's a MAJOR issue. Why is she pulling her out early? To avoid seeing you? Why is a school not questioning a Dr. Appt that often? Do they not require notes? I'd bring this up w your lawyer. Is she still consistently late?

twister22 · September 2013

BM is manipulating K's emotions and thoughts and it is SO not okay. I wouldn't confront BM right now, it will just make things worse for K.

Is this the straw that breaks that camel's back that gives you guys enough to have the CO revised? It honestly doesn't seem like BM having K 60% of the time is in K's best interest.

If not, can DH speak with the school regarding this issue? Maybe that if K has an appointment and needs to be pulled out of school that a doctor's note be provided?

cole2144 · September 2013

I think it is a big deal when one parent asks a child to lie to another parent.

CFjo2010 · September 2013

twister22 said:

BM is manipulating K's emotions and thoughts and it is SO not okay. I wouldn't confront BM right now, it will just make things worse for K.

Is this the straw that breaks that camel's back that gives you guys enough to have the CO revised? It honestly doesn't seem like BM having K 60% of the time is in K's best interest.

If not, can DH speak with the school regarding this issue? Maybe that if K has an appointment and needs to be pulled out of school that a doctor's note be provided?

We have teacher conferences next week and we'll find out from the teacher how K is doing so far. She seriously is 5-10 minutes late every single day she is with BM. BM is constantly pulling her out to go to lunch, Disneyland, playdates, etc. It's really frustrating.

DH's Judge is so wishy-washy, I have no idea what would happen. One minute the Judge was blasting BM for not complying with the co-parenting classes, but then turned around and let BM draw out completing a 3 month course for 6 months. BM was reprimanded for having K share a bed with her and her BF, but then told DH it was ok for K to share a room with BM because at least it's a roof over her head. It's frustrating dealing with that guy.

bebe11 · September 2013

That is horrible!! First I would ask myself what will it accomplish if I confront BM? From everything that I read, I think she will just get worse and it'll make things harder for K. And if she had erands to run, drop K off at school FIRST, then do your erands.

agibby · September 2013

WE;ve been thru the same thing here a few times. BM will tell SS to lie about something (h3's 5) and when DH called her out on it she either made excuses, lied more or called SS a liar. Then she punished SS when he got back to her house for saying something to DH:( We are very choosy as to what we bring up to BM because of SS being punished as we don't want SS to quit talking to us because of that.

I worry that 1) SS will think it's OK to lie and keep secrets and 2) some creep predator will find SS easy to manipulate becuase he's been taught to keep secrets and lies with adults.

DH has explained that SS shouldn't think it's ever OK for an adult to ask him to keep secrets or to lie becuase of this (unless it's a birthday surprise). But, it doesn't seem to matter to BM.

JessH1474 · September 2013

I don't understand why the school is not asking more questions about this. I can't imagine my DD's school being ok with this at all. Maybe they are bringing it up to BM though. That is just crazy, but I agree with the above I don't think I'd bring it up just yet. I think I would continue to ask for copies of the attendance records and let your lawyer review them to see what he/she thinks on how to approach it. I know in my county, if a child is late on a regular basis or misses a lot of school, the parents can get in major trouble.

sweetie0228 · September 2013

Personally, I think you and your DH neeed to take K out of the middle forcing her to lie.

You knew the Dr Appt was a lie. You didn't need to give K the inquisition and then repremand her for lying to you when she was under a direct order from her mother to lie, and she's not supposed to disobey. K is not old enough nor has the bandwidth to figure out that situation.

You knew the Dr Appt was a lie you should have brought it to H and then let him deal directly w/ BM and hodl the adult accountable for the lie.

Also, questions like did you have a nice time last weekend, what movies did you see; may seem like innocent and non-threatening questions. To K this is an interrogation. She is put directly in the middle about what she is and isn't allowed to talk about at your house and shes probably given a huge inquisition with her BM about what she did at your house. It's easier for her to give the "right answer" of I don't remember.

Just deal with the present with her. Allow an open breezy that's great I'm sure you enjoyed that if she opens up to you but no follow up questions. This child is in the middle of a parental alienation and she is trying her hardest not to be disloyal and unlovable to either parent. Be the home where she can relax and not have her gaurd up all the time. She'll open up then.

Hopeforthebest · September 2013

We are living this exact same scenario with the vague "I don't know/remember" answers we get via telephone.

When the kids were here this summer my DH finally sat the eldest one down (9 yrs old) and told him he always loves him and understands if sometimes mom doesn't let him share things with DH but always to know he can tell DH anything.

We were doing the same thing..asking innocent questions and even getting frustrated with the I don't knows/remembers and then realized what was going on. We took him out of the middle and now he sometimes will "accidentally" tell us things and we just roll right through it and don't make a big deal out of whatever it is (with him at least).

It is awful. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. My exact worry was what another poster mentioned. That the kid would become a victim of some predator. I still worry about that. These people that do this to their kids are not very bright.

Littlejen22 · September 2013

Is there any chance the school can do something along the lines of reporting her for truancy?

CFjo2010 · September 2013

sweetie0228 said:

Personally, I think you and your DH neeed to take K out of the middle forcing her to lie.

You knew the Dr Appt was a lie. You didn't need to give K the inquisition and then repremand her for lying to you when she was under a direct order from her mother to lie, and she's not supposed to disobey. K is not old enough nor has the bandwidth to figure out that situation.

You knew the Dr Appt was a lie you should have brought it to H and then let him deal directly w/ BM and hodl the adult accountable for the lie.

Also, questions like did you have a nice time last weekend, what movies did you see; may seem like innocent and non-threatening questions. To K this is an interrogation. She is put directly in the middle about what she is and isn't allowed to talk about at your house and shes probably given a huge inquisition with her BM about what she did at your house. It's easier for her to give the "right answer" of I don't remember.

Just deal with the present with her. Allow an open breezy that's great I'm sure you enjoyed that if she opens up to you but no follow up questions. This child is in the middle of a parental alienation and she is trying her hardest not to be disloyal and unlovable to either parent. Be the home where she can relax and not have her gaurd up all the time. She'll open up then.

I asked K about the appt because in the past BM has used Medi-Cal that she fraudulently obtained in order to take K to a different Dr so that DH won't know what's going on. Then the State tried to levy our bank account for repayment. Um, no. If the State is going to try and take my money for BM's fraud, best believe I'm going to find out what is going on. As for asking about her weekends, it's always in follow up to K asking us. Example: K will ask me what we had for dinner last night and I'll say, "We had XYZ for dinner. What about you guys?". Same thing with weekend stuff. I never initiate the questions, it's just following up.

As for K not being old enough to figure out she shouldn't lie... She's 7. 7 year olds know it's not ok to lie.

CFjo2010 · September 2013

Littlejen22 said:

Is there any chance the school can do something along the lines of reporting her for truancy?

Since K is on a transfer, if she has too many unexcused absences/tardies she can lose her transfer. I think the max is like 4 or 5 per school year. If K loses her transfer DH will immediately go in for custody. We originally didn't want K at this school because BM didn't have a car and we knew she wouldn't get her to school on time. DH tried to get K into the school that's closer to BM and our house but BM had already done the enrollment paperwork and left DH off all the documents. And yes, the Judge still allowed it.

+just+j+ · September 2013

I think you need to focus on SD and keep re-inforcing to her that lying is not right, that you know she does it because her mom told it was okay, but it's not and it's not acceptable behavior in your home.

Unfortunately with her bat shit crazy mom, you are going to have your work cut out for you.

I feel for ya. I'm struggling right now on calling out XH on one of his many lies. I have to step back and ask myself does it affect DD and what am I trying to accomplish and try to decide if it's worth the drama. I worry DD will learn from him that lying is okay and I know I'm going to be dealing with this myself at some point.

Wahoo · September 2013

sweetie0228 said:

Personally, I think you and your DH neeed to take K out of the middle forcing her to lie.

You knew the Dr Appt was a lie. You didn't need to give K the inquisition and then repremand her for lying to you when she was under a direct order from her mother to lie, and she's not supposed to disobey. K is not old enough nor has the bandwidth to figure out that situation.

You knew the Dr Appt was a lie you should have brought it to H and then let him deal directly w/ BM and hodl the adult accountable for the lie.

Also, questions like did you have a nice time last weekend, what movies did you see; may seem like innocent and non-threatening questions. To K this is an interrogation. She is put directly in the middle about what she is and isn't allowed to talk about at your house and shes probably given a huge inquisition with her BM about what she did at your house. It's easier for her to give the "right answer" of I don't remember.

Just deal with the present with her. Allow an open breezy that's great I'm sure you enjoyed that if she opens up to you but no follow up questions. This child is in the middle of a parental alienation and she is trying her hardest not to be disloyal and unlovable to either parent. Be the home where she can relax and not have her gaurd up all the time. She'll open up then.

I asked K about the appt because in the past BM has used Medi-Cal that she fraudulently obtained in order to take K to a different Dr so that DH won't know what's going on. Then the State tried to levy our bank account for repayment. Um, no. If the State is going to try and take my money for BM's fraud, best believe I'm going to find out what is going on. As for asking about her weekends, it's always in follow up to K asking us. Example: K will ask me what we had for dinner last night and I'll say, "We had XYZ for dinner. What about you guys?". Same thing with weekend stuff. I never initiate the questions, it's just following up.

As for K not being old enough to figure out she shouldn't lie... She's 7. 7 year olds know it's not ok to lie.

What YOU are doing is WRONG! Do not justify putting K in the middle of this ADULT fight because your money is involved. Deal with BM, not K. A 7-year old is not capable of committing insurance fraud so don't involve her. Ditto the weekend questions. You KNOW BM is secretive and involves K, and that you are putting her in a bad place by asking. She asks you how your weekend was and you tell her but her question is not a charged question because nobody told you to keep secrets and tell lies. YOUR question sets her up to either lie and be evasive (violating rules in your house), or tell what happened with BM (violating BMs rules). Stop expecting things to change and reply with something like "we had a busy weekend but got a lot of cleaning and shopping done. I hope you had a fun weekend. I'd love to hear about it if there is anything you want to tell me." If she says no, let it go. She is not obligated to share her weekend activities with BM with you so stop putting her in a bad position. A 7-year old SHOULD know not to lie, but is age 7 old enough to navigate whether its better to lie and not betray your mother (who influences 60% of your upbringing, at least time wise), or tell the truth and get her in trouble. Grown adults can be manipulated.... K is a victim in this situation, not a willing participant (even if she agrees to lie for BM). You are being a BULLY and picking on K because it is easier than dealing with and confronting BM. Shame on you.

CFjo2010 · September 2013

Wahoo said:

sweetie0228 said:

Personally, I think you and your DH neeed to take K out of the middle forcing her to lie.

You knew the Dr Appt was a lie. You didn't need to give K the inquisition and then repremand her for lying to you when she was under a direct order from her mother to lie, and she's not supposed to disobey. K is not old enough nor has the bandwidth to figure out that situation.

You knew the Dr Appt was a lie you should have brought it to H and then let him deal directly w/ BM and hodl the adult accountable for the lie.

Also, questions like did you have a nice time last weekend, what movies did you see; may seem like innocent and non-threatening questions. To K this is an interrogation. She is put directly in the middle about what she is and isn't allowed to talk about at your house and shes probably given a huge inquisition with her BM about what she did at your house. It's easier for her to give the "right answer" of I don't remember.

Just deal with the present with her. Allow an open breezy that's great I'm sure you enjoyed that if she opens up to you but no follow up questions. This child is in the middle of a parental alienation and she is trying her hardest not to be disloyal and unlovable to either parent. Be the home where she can relax and not have her gaurd up all the time. She'll open up then.

I asked K about the appt because in the past BM has used Medi-Cal that she fraudulently obtained in order to take K to a different Dr so that DH won't know what's going on. Then the State tried to levy our bank account for repayment. Um, no. If the State is going to try and take my money for BM's fraud, best believe I'm going to find out what is going on. As for asking about her weekends, it's always in follow up to K asking us. Example: K will ask me what we had for dinner last night and I'll say, "We had XYZ for dinner. What about you guys?". Same thing with weekend stuff. I never initiate the questions, it's just following up.

As for K not being old enough to figure out she shouldn't lie... She's 7. 7 year olds know it's not ok to lie.
What YOU are doing is WRONG! Do not justify putting K in the middle of this ADULT fight because your money is involved. Deal with BM, not K. A 7-year old is not capable of committing insurance fraud so don't involve her. Ditto the weekend questions. You KNOW BM is secretive and involves K, and that you are putting her in a bad place by asking. She asks you how your weekend was and you tell her but her question is not a charged question because nobody told you to keep secrets and tell lies. YOUR question sets her up to either lie and be evasive (violating rules in your house), or tell what happened with BM (violating BMs rules). Stop expecting things to change and reply with something like "we had a busy weekend but got a lot of cleaning and shopping done. I hope you had a fun weekend. I'd love to hear about it if there is anything you want to tell me." If she says no, let it go. She is not obligated to share her weekend activities with BM with you so stop putting her in a bad position. A 7-year old SHOULD know not to lie, but is age 7 old enough to navigate whether its better to lie and not betray your mother (who influences 60% of your upbringing, at least time wise), or tell the truth and get her in trouble. Grown adults can be manipulated.... K is a victim in this situation, not a willing participant (even if she agrees to lie for BM). You are being a BULLY and picking on K because it is easier than dealing with and confronting BM. Shame on you.

Asking a child how there weekend was, how school was, if they had fun with friends is hardly bullying. Asking for clarification is hardly bullying. Reprimanding and correcting a child's behavior when they lie is not bullying. When DD doesn't clean her room and I reprimand her for not following directions, is that bullying? When DS tells me his homework is done and I demand to see the finished work, is that bullying? No. Now what @bebe11's ex is doing to her DD, that's bullying. Don't use heavily charged and inflammatory terms unless you're going to use them correctly. I am not going to walk on eggshells and lower my expectations of K just because her mother is a manipulative lying bitch. BM's behavior is the perfect example of why DH and I emphasize truthfulness with K, so that she doesn't grow up and be like her mother.

And we do deal with BM. There are emails and texts regarding all of this crap. But then BM lies about K and K gets upset. K deserves to have a voice and tell her side, not just go along with whatever crap BM makes up.

Wahoo · September 2013

Don't tell me what tems to use and not use. Asking K how her weekend was when you KNOW she is being told to be evasive, then getting angry with her is setting her up for failure. She cannot give the "right" answer when you expect one answer and BM demands another. Your post is not lamenting that K doesn't have her own voice...you are punishing her for being in the middle when you and BM work as a team to put her there. I realize how much it bothers you to not be seen as perfect, and to have your mistakes pointed out, which is why you fight tooth and nail to justify YOUR inexcusable behavior (I have every right to ask a 7 year old about MY money!!). If you don't like the term Bully, you can substitute a$$hole. Both fit.

Amanda88 · September 2013

He shouldn't make a big deal out of it at all. In fact, he shouldn't even bring it up to BM. While it is a big deal, bringing it up won't change anything and will only cause K to suffer. He can shield her from that, and she will appreciate it. It will help build trust in your family.

Involved parents ask their children these basic questions. My perspective is different from Wahoo's, and I feel that Jobalchak is parenting. It would be wrong to only have a one sided conversation with any child. By asking questions back you are engaging the child, and showing you care. It is not on Jo for K being scared to tell the truth regarding basic things. That is on BM, and that makes BM a bully.

If she feels insecure about a question, and you will know when she does, change the subject if it isn't need to know information. I would also keep at making K feel that what she shares with you won't be relayed to BM unless she needs to know. BM's actions that upset you, especially those that you learn from K, do not need to be brought up unless they warrant a change in your CO or they put K in harms way/immediate danger. This way K isn't being punished by BM for sharing information. When she feels she won't get in trouble for things she can't control, she will be honest and share more information.

K is 7 and knows lying is WRONG. While this conversation may have set her up to lie, this is a learning experience for K. Lying because BM said too will not keep her from suffering the repercussions of lying, ever, no matter who is asking the questions. Allowing K to think that it is okay to lie, for any reason, is irresponsible. What happens when she gets caught by the school/teacher/police officer? K is going to have to learn to do the right thing, and not just what she is told. There are rules in life, and breaking them will always have a consequence. We are all responsible for our own actions.

I think that bringing up the attendance/tardy/check-outs issue at the parent teacher conference is important. I would even ask the principal what her standings are in regards to her transfer, and if she is close to loosing it/what the consequences are if this pattern continues.

CFjo2010 · September 2013

Wahoo said:

Don't tell me what tems to use and not use. Asking K how her weekend was when you KNOW she is being told to be evasive, then getting angry with her is setting her up for failure. She cannot give the "right" answer when you expect one answer and BM demands another. Your post is not lamenting that K doesn't have her own voice...you are punishing her for being in the middle when you and BM work as a team to put her there. I realize how much it bothers you to not be seen as perfect, and to have your mistakes pointed out, which is why you fight tooth and nail to justify YOUR inexcusable behavior (I have every right to ask a 7 year old about MY money!!). If you don't like the term Bully, you can substitute a$$hole. Both fit.

If expecting honesty from children, engaging children and holding them accountable for their actions makes me an asshole, than I GLADLY accept that title. If I were to never try an engage K and ask about her weekends, school, interests, etc then I would be blasted for not caring. K has never been reprimanded for saying, "I don't remember". We respond with, "Ok. We hope you had fun either way." Omitting things and flat out LYING are completely different. K lying to me is what she was reprimanded for, just as I would reprimand DS and DD for lying. An I never once mentioned money to K. I asked about the dr appt she allegedly had. Because whether you approve or not, it DOES impact me.

Nineoceans · September 2013

+just+j+ said:
I think you need to focus on SD and keep re-inforcing to her that lying is not right, that you know she does it because her mom told it was okay, but it's not and it's not acceptable behavior in your home.
Unfortunately with her bat shit crazy mom, you are going to have your work cut out for you.
I feel for ya.

I agree with this.

It's a parent's job to correct a child when they're lying, sometimes that means trapping them when you already know the answer.

BM is asking her to lie and keep secrets which is dangerous. If you're taught secrets are ok then when the neighbor starts molesting you, you don't tell bc adults keep secrets and its ok. When you're 16 and taught lying and secrets are ok she will be the kid to never tell her parents when she's approached with drugs or sex

Children need to be caught and corrected and taught that that lying and secrets are not ok under any circumstances.

twister22 · September 2013

jobalchak said:

twister22 said:

BM is manipulating K's emotions and thoughts and it is SO not okay. I wouldn't confront BM right now, it will just make things worse for K.

Is this the straw that breaks that camel's back that gives you guys enough to have the CO revised? It honestly doesn't seem like BM having K 60% of the time is in K's best interest.

If not, can DH speak with the school regarding this issue? Maybe that if K has an appointment and needs to be pulled out of school that a doctor's note be provided?

We have teacher conferences next week and we'll find out from the teacher how K is doing so far. She seriously is 5-10 minutes late every single day she is with BM. BM is constantly pulling her out to go to lunch, Disneyland, playdates, etc. It's really frustrating.

DH's Judge is so wishy-washy, I have no idea what would happen. One minute the Judge was blasting BM for not complying with the co-parenting classes, but then turned around and let BM draw out completing a 3 month course for 6 months. BM was reprimanded for having K share a bed with her and her BF, but then told DH it was ok for K to share a room with BM because at least it's a roof over her head. It's frustrating dealing with that guy.

Missing this much school is truancy. Can you guys start pushing the school to go for truancy? Then a truancy officer would be the one getting involved, not the Judge you typically deal with for K. The truancy officer will want to see documentation of why K missed. You & DH will be able to provide the officer documentation of the justifiable reasons K was pulled out/tardy/absent during your time due to appointments or sickness. BM will give her sorry excuses, but then have no evidence to back them up. Please tell me you have documentation of the lunch/Disneyland/play dates that BM has K partake in during school time - it would be amazing to have this to present to the truancy officer, and have BM's ass handed to her.

jobalchak said:

Littlejen22 said:

Is there any chance the school can do something along the lines of reporting her for truancy?

Since K is on a transfer, if she has too many unexcused absences/tardies she can lose her transfer. I think the max is like 4 or 5 per school year. If K loses her transfer DH will immediately go in for custody. We originally didn't want K at this school because BM didn't have a car and we knew she wouldn't get her to school on time. DH tried to get K into the school that's closer to BM and our house but BM had already done the enrollment paperwork and left DH off all the documents. And yes, the Judge still allowed it.

I read this after the fact. That is complete and utter bull shit. I really can't stand that pathetic woman, and I cannot believe a judge backed up her crazy shit. Shame on her and shame on the shitty judge.

jobalchak said:

sweetie0228 said:

Personally, I think you and your DH neeed to take K out of the middle forcing her to lie.

You knew the Dr Appt was a lie. You didn't need to give K the inquisition and then repremand her for lying to you when she was under a direct order from her mother to lie, and she's not supposed to disobey. K is not old enough nor has the bandwidth to figure out that situation.

You knew the Dr Appt was a lie you should have brought it to H and then let him deal directly w/ BM and hodl the adult accountable for the lie.

Also, questions like did you have a nice time last weekend, what movies did you see; may seem like innocent and non-threatening questions. To K this is an interrogation. She is put directly in the middle about what she is and isn't allowed to talk about at your house and shes probably given a huge inquisition with her BM about what she did at your house. It's easier for her to give the "right answer" of I don't remember.

Just deal with the present with her. Allow an open breezy that's great I'm sure you enjoyed that if she opens up to you but no follow up questions. This child is in the middle of a parental alienation and she is trying her hardest not to be disloyal and unlovable to either parent. Be the home where she can relax and not have her gaurd up all the time. She'll open up then.

I asked K about the appt because in the past BM has used Medi-Cal that she fraudulently obtained in order to take K to a different Dr so that DH won't know what's going on. Then the State tried to levy our bank account for repayment. Um, no. If the State is going to try and take my money for BM's fraud, best believe I'm going to find out what is going on. As for asking about her weekends, it's always in follow up to K asking us. Example: K will ask me what we had for dinner last night and I'll say, "We had XYZ for dinner. What about you guys?". Same thing with weekend stuff. I never initiate the questions, it's just following up.

As for K not being old enough to figure out she shouldn't lie... She's 7. 7 year olds know it's not ok to lie.

Jo, I typically agree with you, and I think you give great wisdom on this board, especially with the insight of being both a BM and a SM. However, I disagree with you on this one. You have GOT to understand that K is in a nasty tug of war game. 60% of the time at BM's house she is being influenced and told that things are supposed to happen one way, and then the other 40% of the time she is being influenced and told that things are supposed to happen another way. She's 7, not 17. She doesn't get it all yet, and she is very conflicted. She loves BM to pieces, and she loves you and DH to pieces. And she doesn't want to disappoint anyone.

A 7 year old should typically know that lying is wrong. But how is K supposed to feel when her mom, who she idolizes, tells her that she is SUPPOSED to lie, that this is what mommy wants her to do, that this is the RIGHT thing to do. And then she goes to school and your house and hears that lying is wrong. BUT - her mom said she was SUPPOSED to! And no kid wants to disappoint their parent. She is in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

I would tread lightly in this situation. PLEASE stop putting K in situations where she feels conflicted to lie. I understand it is not always possible, but it just happens so much to her, and I imagine that it's emotionally and mentally exhausting.

Why not start changing the dialogue?

K: What did you have for dinner?

Jo: We had spaghetti last night, and we have some left over if you want some!

-or-

Jo: We had spaghetti last night, and tonight we are going to have tacos!

Either scenario still allows K to feel important/included, and allows her to open up with what she had for dinner, if she so chooses. I get that "We had spaghetti, what did you have?" seems completely innocent, but with K, it's just not. It's sad, but unfortunately, it's true. Internally she feels like she's being disloyal to BM if she says "McDonald's," something she knows you're not a fan of. She doesn't want you to judge BM. She may not be able to vocalize this, but kids pick up on things. She knows you disapprove of constant unhealthy eating. She doesn't want to disappoint BM by being "disloyal," and she doesn't want to disappoint you because she ate unhealthy.

I can't stress the last sentence of what sweetie said enough. Allow K to feel relaxed and at ease in your home. I know you're trying your hardest at this already, and you're doing a great job. I know you love K, and DH does too, and you guys are doing your best to make sure she has a good upbringing. And tweaking the way you're already doing things can improve that even further.

In regards to the Medi-Cal - You sure as hell have a right to know what's going on so YOUR money isn't going to be taken. I would be all over that too. But why not take a different approach, and leave K out of it?

As soon as you have suspicion that BM may be fraudulently taking out Medi-Cal, have DH put in a call to the agency - "Hi, this is DH, K's father. I am calling to notify you that K has insurance through me, and that she does NOT need Medi-Cal, because receiving it would be fraudulent. I know this sounds kind of odd, but I am concerned because BM, K's mother, previously took out Medi-Cal on K fraudulently without my knowledge, and the State tried to receive repayment through me and my wife even though we had nothing to do with the fraud and no knowledge of it. I have reason to believe that K had a Medi-Cal policy taken out for her again, and I just wanted to confirm that this wasn't the case.................. Thank you so much for your time Tim Timothy, I greatly appreciate it." Then immediately document the call; day/time it occurred, the number called & called from, the conversation that took place, and who DH spoke with.

Would asking K be simpler? Yes. But this way it leaves her out of it. And truly, it doesn't take that much time/effort.

Sorry that was so long and for any spelling and grammar errors.

CFjo2010 · September 2013

twister22 said:

In regards to the Medi-Cal - You sure as hell have a right to know what's going on so YOUR money isn't going to be taken. I would be all over that too. But why not take a different approach, and leave K out of it?
As soon as you have suspicion that BM may be fraudulently taking out Medi-Cal, have DH put in a call to the agency - "Hi, this is DH, K's father. I am calling to notify you that K has insurance through me, and that she does NOT need Medi-Cal, because receiving it would be fraudulent. I know this sounds kind of odd, but I am concerned because BM, K's mother, previously took out Medi-Cal on K fraudulently without my knowledge, and the State tried to receive repayment through me and my wife even though we had nothing to do with the fraud and no knowledge of it. I have reason to believe that K had a Medi-Cal policy taken out for her again, and I just wanted to confirm that this wasn't the case.................. Thank you so much for your time Tim Timothy, I greatly appreciate it." Then immediately document the call; day/time it occurred, the number called & called from, the conversation that took place, and who DH spoke with.

I cannot tell you how many times DH has made this phone call. It's infuriating. BM applies for welfare through the State, and DH uses DCSS to handle the CS payments. You would think the 2 agencies would work together. But they really don't. After nearly a year, the State suddenly realized that DH's name is on K's birth certificate and then filed an action against him for CS. Um, there was already a CS order and DH was current. The State sued us for repayment of the money BM received while receiving CS and for repayment of medical bills the State paid since BM had refused to use the insurance DH provides. I'm completely serious when I say that the State realized it was their own fault for not catching on sooner and that BM was the one who did all this, but came after us because we had the means to repay. DH tried calling the Medi-Cal offices repeatedly before it ever got to that point and tried to tell them that K had insurance through him but they refused to talk to him because BM is the one who opened the case. DH's attorney called and submitted proof of insurance and proof of CS payments and the State still provided BM with welfare payments and Medi-Cal for K. It was so bad, we had to open a bank account in just my name and I had to get my own attorney to represent me. It was awful.

Should I have gotten K involved? Maybe not. But at this point she is the only one who is somewhat honest with us if she sees a different Dr than she is supposed to. DH has asked BM about this stuff and she blatantly says, "K is my daughter and I'll do what I want". She doesn't care because she has nothing the State can take. Now whenever we get wind of BM pulling this type of stuff we immediately get the attorneys on the phone and start moving money into my separate account. It's effing ridiculous.

EarthandFire · September 2013

Nineoceans said:

BM is asking her to lie and keep secrets which is dangerous. If you're taught secrets are ok then when the neighbor starts molesting you, you don't tell bc adults keep secrets and its ok. When you're 16 and taught lying and secrets are ok she will be the kid to never tell her parents when she's approached with drugs or sex.

This. I was thinking the same thing this afternoon. These tactics are the same ones used by sexual predictors. I would be concerned being taught they are right or ok puts K in a vulnerable position.

Muffins_Mom · September 2013

Lurker here, but I come at this as stepmother, birth mother, and stepdaughter, so please bear with me. My 7 year old DD lied to me tonight about something stupid. She knows better. She got in trouble. She came to me devastated because she was worried that I wouldn't "be there for her" anymore. Please note those were her words, not mine. So, yes, a 7 year old knows not to lie, but she'll do it and if her psycho mother TELLS her to do it, you better believe she'll do it because a 7 year old girl wants to please her mom, more than almost anything. She just does. Please remember that. I know what it's like to be pissed at a BM because she's is doing something she shouldn't be. I get it. I also remember what it's like to be caught in the middle of a nasty divorce as a kid. It sucks. Bad. I know you're frustrated. I do. I feel your pain, but please don't ask your SD questions that should be asked of her mother because its easier to ask your SD. Please.

twister22 · September 2013

jobalchak said:

twister22 said:

In regards to the Medi-Cal - You sure as hell have a right to know what's going on so YOUR money isn't going to be taken. I would be all over that too. But why not take a different approach, and leave K out of it?
As soon as you have suspicion that BM may be fraudulently taking out Medi-Cal, have DH put in a call to the agency - "Hi, this is DH, K's father. I am calling to notify you that K has insurance through me, and that she does NOT need Medi-Cal, because receiving it would be fraudulent. I know this sounds kind of odd, but I am concerned because BM, K's mother, previously took out Medi-Cal on K fraudulently without my knowledge, and the State tried to receive repayment through me and my wife even though we had nothing to do with the fraud and no knowledge of it. I have reason to believe that K had a Medi-Cal policy taken out for her again, and I just wanted to confirm that this wasn't the case.................. Thank you so much for your time Tim Timothy, I greatly appreciate it." Then immediately document the call; day/time it occurred, the number called & called from, the conversation that took place, and who DH spoke with.

I cannot tell you how many times DH has made this phone call. It's infuriating. BM applies for welfare through the State, and DH uses DCSS to handle the CS payments. You would think the 2 agencies would work together. But they really don't. After nearly a year, the State suddenly realized that DH's name is on K's birth certificate and then filed an action against him for CS. Um, there was already a CS order and DH was current. The State sued us for repayment of the money BM received while receiving CS and for repayment of medical bills the State paid since BM had refused to use the insurance DH provides. I'm completely serious when I say that the State realized it was their own fault for not catching on sooner and that BM was the one who did all this, but came after us because we had the means to repay. DH tried calling the Medi-Cal offices repeatedly before it ever got to that point and tried to tell them that K had insurance through him but they refused to talk to him because BM is the one who opened the case. DH's attorney called and submitted proof of insurance and proof of CS payments and the State still provided BM with welfare payments and Medi-Cal for K. It was so bad, we had to open a bank account in just my name and I had to get my own attorney to represent me. It was awful.

Should I have gotten K involved? Maybe not. But at this point she is the only one who is somewhat honest with us if she sees a different Dr than she is supposed to. DH has asked BM about this stuff and she blatantly says, "K is my daughter and I'll do what I want". She doesn't care because she has nothing the State can take. Now whenever we get wind of BM pulling this type of stuff we immediately get the attorneys on the phone and start moving money into my separate account. It's effing ridiculous.

What. The. Fuck. I know state agencies are idiots, but this is absolutely unacceptable. Wow. I am LIVID for you right now. What fucking morons.

So I still stand by everything else I said, but in regards to the Medi-Cal, I am at a loss now. What the fuck is wrong with BM, and how the fuck does a judge think she deserves to be CP? She's clearly a shittastic mom, but this is just the icing on the cake. If I were the judge she would get EOWE, if she was lucky.

I know it's kind of silly that I'm this pissed over something that essentially has no effect on me, but I am.

Lavender P · September 2013

She doesn't care because she has nothing the State can take. Now whenever we get wind of BM pulling this type of stuff we immediately get the attorneys on the phone and start moving money into my separate account. It's effing ridiculous.

jobalchak

My SS's BM has said the same thing. She specifically said that she can do whatever she wants because she has nothing of value that can be taken from her. there is nothing more dangerous then a crazy person with nothing to lose. I'm sorry that you have to deal with all of BM's crazy, but I really feel for K. She has to be so torn trying to do the right thing when there really is no right answer for her.

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