FFFC...and no, they're not flame free.

willowprincess · August 2013

2010weddinggal said:

MEP923 said:

Cashingn2 said:

Maybe this is more UO, but since the earlier post its on my mind. I can't understand why women care so much if they're friends are excited for their pregnancies. It's not their baby, their life, or their experience. To get upset because a friend didn't jump for joy and buy you some onesies is obnoxious to me. People of our age have a LOT of other personal stuff going on and may not have that emotional space to celebrate for you. It's your baby, so as long as you are excited then that's all that matters. You can come here to get your daily dose of "OMGEEE YOU'RE TOTES PREG!" If that's what you really need.
Exactly how I feel. My sister didn't seem that excited about my pregnancy at first but then she went crazy buying things for my girl lol. The point is, just bc someone doesn't go BSC with excitement, doesn't mean they aren't excited

I cried ALL day when I found out my sister was pregnant. I was on my 3rd year of infertility and had already done a few rounds of failed treatments. They weren't even trying and she always had a history of being insensitive to what I was going through. In time I came around and by the time the baby was here I loved her just the same. I know how I felt when friends and family told me they were pregnant so I never expect anyone else to get super excited about my pregnancy. We all have our own stuff going on.

I can high five you on that one, my dh and I have tried 4 years for a baby I have PCOS so it was making it impossible to get pregnant. Well my sister texts dh in march guess who is going to be an aunt and an uncle.... And I burst into tears because one she use to use and two she had nothing stable in her life. So I refuse to talk to her, fast forward to April and low and behold the test is positive I'm excited, looking forward to the milestones and decide time to stop fighting with my sister. So I call and talk to her and she blows up on me, its all why were you not there to support me when I first found I was pregnant? Now all of a sudden your pregnant and want to talk, she was so mean. I told her yes I was jealous that you conceived so easily at a time in your life that is horrible. But cause you go make a baby does not mean I'm going to jump up and down for you...

Sorry, I get you were in pain over the situation and I know it's heartbreaking when things like that happen, but it was still crappy of you to only be there for your sister when things are good for you. I'm not saying you shouldn't have been upset or that you shouldn't have taken a little bit of time. However, I think your sister was totally right to be upset as well. You don't get to be there for a friend/sibling/etc. just when it's easy.

mestills · August 2013

TXmamatobe said:

I made an entire sheet cake yesterday for just my husband and I (yellow cake with chocolate icing…our favorite). We ate some for dessert and then we ate some for breakfast today. Nutritious? No. Delightful? Yes.

Jealous!

mestills · August 2013

Cashingn2 said:

I'm in that stage where I'm questioning my excitement over baby. DH seems much more excited and I feel guilty

I think this really comes and goes and that is totally normal. I mean it is a major change.

mestills · August 2013

kaiteygrl said:

I keep thinking about once LO starts crawling how hard life is going to get and how I'll have to chase her around and watch her like a hawk and what if I hate being a mom? I'm exhausted thinking about it....

That is why baby proofing is helpful, so you do have to be as watchful all the time. Crawling was actually good for us since DS went through a clingy stage and I couldn't leave him in a room without crying, but crawling was so helpful for that reason.

thesportsgal · August 2013

superspecialsnowflake said:

I've totally been having strange dreams this pregnancy, including crazy lesbian sex dreams. I don't know if its because I've been watching Orange is the New Black, or if my gigantic boobs have made me feel ultra feminine, but I'm honestly baffled. DH thinks it's hilarious and is now having grand ideas of a threesome (joking).

After watching Orange is the New Black, this happened to me too!! Tons of lesbian sex dreams. I finally stopped telling my husband about them, he was taking it way too seriously (ie getting way too excited).

lollipoppoop · August 2013

I get tired of these girls/women who think that they can change a man. You can't.

nicholssquared · August 2013

Meggie0421 said:

I'm beyond sick of people who insist on making their kids unique by misspelling their names. I think it's tacky.

Meggie0421 said:

I can't even begin to comprehend celebrating 'viability' at 24 weeks. I get that it might mean more to a women who had a late miscarriage but still. 16 weeks premature does not meet my definition of viable

I'll absolutely breathe a little easier when I know my child has a chance to live should the worst come to the worst. No one wants a micropreemie. No one wants to have a baby at 24 weeks. But there IS something comforting knowing that it's not hopeless should your baby come at that point.

So I guess my FFFC (which is probably pretty flammable) is that I don't always think it's better off that a child/person survives if that means they will have a lifetime of pain, surgeries, etc. As hard as it would be to lose a child or loved one I would never want to see them severely suffer. I'm not talking about mild disabilities I'm talking about the individual actually suffering in pain and having to endure treatments, surgeries, etc over and over again. I also don't think it's fair for their loved ones who now must provide care for them for the rest of their lives or other children who must always be put on the back burner for the safety and care of their sibling.
I'll join you in your FFFC. And I'll take it further, I think it's (generally) down right selfish to keep someone/something alive when they will know nothing but suffering. I can't imagine having to make that decision when it comes to someone I love, but to not make it because I don't want to experience the hurt of loss is beyond my comprehension.

I would say it's one thing if the person cannot survive without some kind of medical intervention. It's a choice to continue the medication/life support and the result of choosing not to may be the natural death of the person, but that's different to me than someone who is in pain because of a medical condition or age who can continue living but just doesn't want to. I don't see how them being in pain gives them any more the right to decide to take their life than someone who isn't, but is just unhappy or in a bad situation.

2010weddinggal · August 2013

willowprincess said:

2010weddinggal said:

MEP923 said:

Cashingn2 said:

Maybe this is more UO, but since the earlier post its on my mind. I can't understand why women care so much if they're friends are excited for their pregnancies. It's not their baby, their life, or their experience. To get upset because a friend didn't jump for joy and buy you some onesies is obnoxious to me. People of our age have a LOT of other personal stuff going on and may not have that emotional space to celebrate for you. It's your baby, so as long as you are excited then that's all that matters. You can come here to get your daily dose of "OMGEEE YOU'RE TOTES PREG!" If that's what you really need.
Exactly how I feel. My sister didn't seem that excited about my pregnancy at first but then she went crazy buying things for my girl lol. The point is, just bc someone doesn't go BSC with excitement, doesn't mean they aren't excited

I cried ALL day when I found out my sister was pregnant. I was on my 3rd year of infertility and had already done a few rounds of failed treatments. They weren't even trying and she always had a history of being insensitive to what I was going through. In time I came around and by the time the baby was here I loved her just the same. I know how I felt when friends and family told me they were pregnant so I never expect anyone else to get super excited about my pregnancy. We all have our own stuff going on.

I can high five you on that one, my dh and I have tried 4 years for a baby I have PCOS so it was making it impossible to get pregnant. Well my sister texts dh in march guess who is going to be an aunt and an uncle.... And I burst into tears because one she use to use and two she had nothing stable in her life. So I refuse to talk to her, fast forward to April and low and behold the test is positive I'm excited, looking forward to the milestones and decide time to stop fighting with my sister. So I call and talk to her and she blows up on me, its all why were you not there to support me when I first found I was pregnant? Now all of a sudden your pregnant and want to talk, she was so mean. I told her yes I was jealous that you conceived so easily at a time in your life that is horrible. But cause you go make a baby does not mean I'm going to jump up and down for you...

Sorry, I get you were in pain over the situation and I know it's heartbreaking when things like that happen, but it was still crappy of you to only be there for your sister when things are good for you. I'm not saying you shouldn't have been upset or that you shouldn't have taken a little bit of time. However, I think your sister was totally right to be upset as well. You don't get to be there for a friend/sibling/etc. just when it's easy.

I was there for her, last summer I took her into my house cause she swore up and down she wanted to be clean, she stayed a week had drugs with her the whole time and then left when she figured I was figuring out she was still using. she broke my heart and made me cry for a week. I just can not forgive something like that, and then she announces her pregnancy and gets mad cause I do not jump up and down for her. She knew what was going on and that I cringed at every pregnancy announcement, baby shower and birth....

KELLILOVESJOSH · August 2013

Speaking of lesbian sex dreams I've had them. But I guess this is my FFFC too because a lot of people don't like my girl crush haha. I love Lana Del Rey. I think she is lovely and I love her music. Apparently her videos make me have weird dreams. I also love love love Chelsea Wolfe! Love that both singers seem to be influenced by David Lynch my fav director!

MEP923 · August 2013

willowprincess said:

2010weddinggal said:

MEP923 said:

Cashingn2 said:

Maybe this is more UO, but since the earlier post its on my mind. I can't understand why women care so much if they're friends are excited for their pregnancies. It's not their baby, their life, or their experience. To get upset because a friend didn't jump for joy and buy you some onesies is obnoxious to me. People of our age have a LOT of other personal stuff going on and may not have that emotional space to celebrate for you. It's your baby, so as long as you are excited then that's all that matters. You can come here to get your daily dose of "OMGEEE YOU'RE TOTES PREG!" If that's what you really need.
Exactly how I feel. My sister didn't seem that excited about my pregnancy at first but then she went crazy buying things for my girl lol. The point is, just bc someone doesn't go BSC with excitement, doesn't mean they aren't excited

I cried ALL day when I found out my sister was pregnant. I was on my 3rd year of infertility and had already done a few rounds of failed treatments. They weren't even trying and she always had a history of being insensitive to what I was going through. In time I came around and by the time the baby was here I loved her just the same. I know how I felt when friends and family told me they were pregnant so I never expect anyone else to get super excited about my pregnancy. We all have our own stuff going on.

I can high five you on that one, my dh and I have tried 4 years for a baby I have PCOS so it was making it impossible to get pregnant. Well my sister texts dh in march guess who is going to be an aunt and an uncle.... And I burst into tears because one she use to use and two she had nothing stable in her life. So I refuse to talk to her, fast forward to April and low and behold the test is positive I'm excited, looking forward to the milestones and decide time to stop fighting with my sister. So I call and talk to her and she blows up on me, its all why were you not there to support me when I first found I was pregnant? Now all of a sudden your pregnant and want to talk, she was so mean. I told her yes I was jealous that you conceived so easily at a time in your life that is horrible. But cause you go make a baby does not mean I'm going to jump up and down for you...

Sorry, I get you were in pain over the situation and I know it's heartbreaking when things like that happen, but it was still crappy of you to only be there for your sister when things are good for you. I'm not saying you shouldn't have been upset or that you shouldn't have taken a little bit of time. However, I think your sister was totally right to be upset as well. You don't get to be there for a friend/sibling/etc. just when it's easy.

I know you were referring to the quote below mine but I just want to clarify I was still there for my sister. I texted her that day and said "congrats" and then came around and talked to her within a few days. I still planned her over the top baby shower (which has been talked about before) and I was still there when she went into labor. At that point I still wasn't pregnant (I actually got pregnant later that week) so it was hard but I did the very best I could. I'll never apologize for being upset though especially those first few days. It was truly heartbreaking for me and considering she never even took into consideration what I was going through it did make it harder. Asking somebody how they are doing when they aren't as lucky as you can go a long way.

sleepymonkey · August 2013

nicholssquared said:

Meggie0421 said:

I'm beyond sick of people who insist on making their kids unique by misspelling their names. I think it's tacky.
LP0198 said:

Meggie0421 said:

KateVA said:
I can't even begin to comprehend celebrating 'viability' at 24 weeks. I get that it might mean more to a women who had a late miscarriage but still. 16 weeks premature does not meet my definition of viable

I'll absolutely breathe a little easier when I know my child has a chance to live should the worst come to the worst.
No one wants a micropreemie. No one wants to have a baby at 24 weeks. But there IS something comforting knowing that it's not hopeless should your baby come at that point.

So I guess my FFFC (which is probably pretty flammable) is that I don't always think it's better off that a child/person survives if that means they will have a lifetime of pain, surgeries, etc. As hard as it would be to lose a child or loved one I would never want to see them severely suffer. I'm not talking about mild disabilities I'm talking about the individual actually suffering in pain and having to endure treatments, surgeries, etc over and over again. I also don't think it's fair for their loved ones who now must provide care for them for the rest of their lives or other children who must always be put on the back burner for the safety and care of their sibling.
I'll join you in your FFFC.
And I'll take it further, I think it's (generally) down right selfish to keep someone/something alive when they will know nothing but suffering.
I can't imagine having to make that decision when it comes to someone I love, but to not make it because I don't want to experience the hurt of loss is beyond my comprehension.

I would say it's one thing if the person cannot survive without some kind of medical intervention. It's a choice to continue the medication/life support and the result of choosing not to may be the natural death of the person, but that's different to me than someone who is in pain because of a medical condition or age who can continue living but just doesn't want to. I don't see how them being in pain gives them any more the right to decide to take their life than someone who isn't, but is just unhappy or in a bad situation.

I think the difference is that if someone is unhappy or in a bad situation, there is treatment for that. It doesn't have to stay so terrible. If someone is living with chronic terrible pain or disease that will never get better or will get worse, I can totally see why they should have the right to choose to end the pain.

Jen4033 · August 2013

Ktrue85 said:

Maybe this is more UO, but since the earlier post its on my mind. I can't understand why women care so much if they're friends are excited for their pregnancies. It's not their baby, their life, or their experience. To get upset because a friend didn't jump for joy and buy you some onesies is obnoxious to me. People of our age have a LOT of other personal stuff going on and may not have that emotional space to celebrate for you. It's your baby, so as long as you are excited then that's all that matters. You can come here to get your daily dose of "OMGEEE YOU'RE TOTES PREG!" If that's what you really need.

Outside the intial 'congrats' I would expect from a friend upon first sharing the news, I agree. Maybe I just feel this way now that this is #2, but while I want to know people are happy for me, I don't want anyone gushing over it. My mother does that enough! She is the only one who is always touching my belly & it annoys the crap out of me!

mamaj1220 · August 2013

Maybe this is UO but I can't stand when people post pictures of their 8 week ultrasound on Facebook or where ever and are like "look at how cute our baby is!" umm it doesn't look like a baby yet. And maybe it's partly because we just shared yesterday at a day away from 23 weeks that Kaleb is coming but I don't understand the whole share the moment you find out. One girl posted pictures of her positive tests like wtf?

ScarlettV · August 2013

Also: I'm sick of my cousin trying to sell me her old baby things. Like a used breast pump she wants $150 for.....and things that I can't seriously use until baby is like two. How many ways can I politely decline?

cammyisagirlsname · August 2013

KELLILOVESJOSH said:
Speaking of lesbian sex dreams I've had them. But I guess this is my FFFC too because a lot of people don't like my girl crush haha. I love Lana Del Rey. I think she is lovely and I love her music. Apparently her videos make me have weird dreams. I also love love love Chelsea Wolfe! Love that both singers seem to be influenced by David Lynch my fav director!

I'm obsessed with Lana!!

jy725 · August 2013

I've also been having sex dreams. I had my second sex dream about Harry Styles from 1D last night. I ain't mad

TheSloppySwish · August 2013

My FFC is that the book Babywise infuriates me.

It's thinly veiled religious propaganda and not a legitimate infant care guide based on the recommendations of medical or child development professionals.

nicholssquared · August 2013

suzalie said:

I would say it's one thing if the person cannot survive without some kind of medical intervention. It's a choice to continue the medication/life support and the result of choosing not to may be the natural death of the person, but that's different to me than someone who is in pain because of a medical condition or age who can continue living but just doesn't want to. I don't see how them being in pain gives them any more the right to decide to take their life than someone who isn't, but is just unhappy or in a bad situation.
I think the difference is that if someone is unhappy or in a bad situation, there is treatment for that. It doesn't have to stay so terrible. If someone is living with chronic terrible pain or disease that will never get better or will get worse, I can totally see why they should have the right to choose to end the pain.

I can certainly respect your position, but I'll have to disagree because of my religious viewpoint.

As a Christian, my understanding is that our bodies were created by God for a purpose that only God knows, and even in our suffering and pain there is a greater reason or end which is ultimately good. To cut one's life short for whatever reason is to refuse to cooperate with God's plan for you and is sinfully disrespectful of Him. Furthermore, by our very nature we are all imperfect beings, but God calls for us to be perfect to be with Him, and in suffering there can be penance for one's imperfections - suffering can be spiritually healing.

At this point, I'm really only posting this out of a sense of obligation to explain my faith. As I've already said, I respect your position and I'm not trying to persuade/convert you by explaining this.

northport6 · August 2013

My parents were never able to conceive (I was adopted) and so I feel sort of bad inundating my mom with pregnancy details, even when she asks.

I find myself trying to tell her all the negative things, so she doesn't have to relive what it was like 30-35 years ago when she and my dad were trying and watching all their friends have pregnancy after successful pregnancy.

She was incredibly helpful and comforting after I miscarried, but it's just very different this time around.

MarieC78 · August 2013

TheSloppySwish said:

My FFC is that the book Babywise infuriates me.
It's thinly veiled religious propaganda and not a legitimate infant care guide based on the recommendations of medical or child development professionals.

Agreed. This series was recommended to me as being sooo great. Went to the bookstore to check it out and was totally turned off by a lot of the content.

nicholssquared · August 2013

MarieC78 said:

TheSloppySwish said:

My FFC is that the book Babywise infuriates me.
It's thinly veiled religious propaganda and not a legitimate infant care guide based on the recommendations of medical or child development professionals.

Agreed. This series was recommended to me as being sooo great. Went to the bookstore to check it out and was totally turned off by a lot of the content.

I don't know anything about this, but it doesn't seem very Christian to me to force a baby to go hungry to adhere to a schedule. If it's supposed to be religious propaganda, it's bad religious propaganda. I'm pretty religious and I know I wouldn't do that to my child.

TheSloppySwish · August 2013

MarieC78 said:

TheSloppySwish said:

My FFC is that the book Babywise infuriates me.
It's thinly veiled religious propaganda and not a legitimate infant care guide based on the recommendations of medical or child development professionals.

Agreed. This series was recommended to me as being sooo great. Went to the bookstore to check it out and was totally turned off by a lot of the content.

My H brought it home from work when I was pregnant with DD. A co-worker had given it to him and raved about how great it was.

I had the same reaction after reading some of it and finally Googled the author. Total WTF.

nicholssquared · August 2013

Soozerella said:

suzalie said:

I can certainly respect your position, but I'll have to disagree because of my religious viewpoint.

As a Christian, my understanding is that our bodies were created by God for a purpose that only God knows, and even in our suffering and pain there is a greater reason or end which is ultimately good. To cut one's life short for whatever reason is to refuse to cooperate with God's plan for you and is sinfully disrespectful of Him. Furthermore, by our very nature we are all imperfect beings, but God calls for us to be perfect to be with Him, and in suffering there can be penance for one's imperfections - suffering can be spiritually healing.

At this point, I'm really only posting this out of a sense of obligation to explain my faith. As I've already said, I respect your position and I'm not trying to persuade/convert you by explaining this.
At first I thought this was @jess'c'squared and was blown away. But I just can't get myself around this idea. That there is some omniscient entity that tests people's faith by making them suffer. Also, when everything was written there wasn't the science to do so much of what's possible today. I mean if your baby was born and something was wrong, your baby just died. It wasn't like it could live it's life through dozens of painful surgeries. So with that idea wouldn't using medical advances already be against god's plan? I'm not like questioning your faith or anything. I just don't get it. I believe ending suffering is an act of mercy.

Those are excellent questions! I don't want to hijack this thread any further, but if you're still interested, I would be happy to explain via PM. Let me know!

TheSloppySwish · August 2013

nicholssquared said:

MarieC78 said:

TheSloppySwish said:

My FFC is that the book Babywise infuriates me.
It's thinly veiled religious propaganda and not a legitimate infant care guide based on the recommendations of medical or child development professionals.

Agreed. This series was recommended to me as being sooo great. Went to the bookstore to check it out and was totally turned off by a lot of the content.

I don't know anything about this, but it doesn't seem very Christian to me to force a baby to go hungry to adhere to a schedule. If it's supposed to be religious propaganda, it's bad religious propaganda. I'm pretty religious and I know I wouldn't do that to my child.

Agree on all points.

MarieC78 · August 2013

nicholssquared said:

MarieC78 said:

TheSloppySwish said:

My FFC is that the book Babywise infuriates me.
It's thinly veiled religious propaganda and not a legitimate infant care guide based on the recommendations of medical or child development professionals.

Agreed. This series was recommended to me as being sooo great. Went to the bookstore to check it out and was totally turned off by a lot of the content.

I don't know anything about this, but it doesn't seem very Christian to me to force a baby to go hungry to adhere to a schedule. If it's supposed to be religious propaganda, it's bad religious propaganda. I'm pretty religious and I know I wouldn't do that to my child.

It just came across as super judgemental (which from reading a few of your posts, I don't think that you are). For example, it basically started out saying that because my BF and I weren't married, we would ruin the baby at birth, even though he was planned for and loved in a stable home.

notkateanymore · August 2013

nicholssquared said:

Soozerella said:

suzalie said:

I can certainly respect your position, but I'll have to disagree because of my religious viewpoint.

As a Christian, my understanding is that our bodies were created by God for a purpose that only God knows, and even in our suffering and pain there is a greater reason or end which is ultimately good. To cut one's life short for whatever reason is to refuse to cooperate with God's plan for you and is sinfully disrespectful of Him. Furthermore, by our very nature we are all imperfect beings, but God calls for us to be perfect to be with Him, and in suffering there can be penance for one's imperfections - suffering can be spiritually healing.

At this point, I'm really only posting this out of a sense of obligation to explain my faith. As I've already said, I respect your position and I'm not trying to persuade/convert you by explaining this.
At first I thought this was @jess'c'squared and was blown away. But I just can't get myself around this idea. That there is some omniscient entity that tests people's faith by making them suffer. Also, when everything was written there wasn't the science to do so much of what's possible today. I mean if your baby was born and something was wrong, your baby just died. It wasn't like it could live it's life through dozens of painful surgeries. So with that idea wouldn't using medical advances already be against god's plan? I'm not like questioning your faith or anything. I just don't get it. I believe ending suffering is an act of mercy.

Those are excellent questions! I don't want to hijack this thread any further, but if you're still interested, I would be happy to explain via PM. Let me know!

That's the whole point of the thread. Share with the class.

74dragonfly · August 2013

KateMW said:

nicholssquared said:

Soozerella said:

nicholssquared said:

suzalie said:

I can certainly respect your position, but I'll have to disagree because of my religious viewpoint.

As a Christian, my understanding is that our bodies were created by God for a purpose that only God knows, and even in our suffering and pain there is a greater reason or end which is ultimately good. To cut one's life short for whatever reason is to refuse to cooperate with God's plan for you and is sinfully disrespectful of Him. Furthermore, by our very nature we are all imperfect beings, but God calls for us to be perfect to be with Him, and in suffering there can be penance for one's imperfections - suffering can be spiritually healing.

At this point, I'm really only posting this out of a sense of obligation to explain my faith. As I've already said, I respect your position and I'm not trying to persuade/convert you by explaining this.
At first I thought this was @jess'c'squared and was blown away.

But I just can't get myself around this idea. That there is some omniscient entity that tests people's faith by making them suffer. Also, when everything was written there wasn't the science to do so much of what's possible today. I mean if your baby was born and something was wrong, your baby just died. It wasn't like it could live it's life through dozens of painful surgeries. So with that idea wouldn't using medical advances already be against god's plan?

I'm not like questioning your faith or anything. I just don't get it. I believe ending suffering is an act of mercy.

Those are excellent questions! I don't want to hijack this thread any further, but if you're still interested, I would be happy to explain via PM. Let me know!

That's the whole point of the thread. Share with the class.
I agree. I have a lot of faith but this concept does puzzle me.

northport6 · August 2013

For your consideration, the major early proponents of hospice care (which is palliative, rather than interventionist) were all religious organizations in one form or another:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospice#Early_development

ETA: I seriously just submitted something from Wikipedia to make the point quickly and in an easily readable format, but there's a ton of literature and primary sources out there for anyone seeking to dive in further.

bishesbcrazy · August 2013

I'm putting the disclaimer out there that I like all of you ladies, I don't have any problems with a single poster and I don't have anyone on a "post it note". I would like to also say that I do find that you ladies are very sympathetic and supportive.

Okay, here goes...deep breath, flame retardant suit on .

My FFFC is that I think, at times, some of the ladies on this board lack empathy. They are very quick to tell others how they're a horrible person for feeling the way that they do in certain situations, some times it's warranted, but more often it's not.

I know a lot of times I wouldn't react the way some of the posters do, but it's not my place to negate someone else's feelings and to tell them they're pieces of shit, horrible friends and wives, etc, because I don't agree with their actions/feelings.

No one is the same and people are going to react differently in certain situations. How would you feel if you had some kind of irrational feeling and people gave you nothing but shit about it? Deserved or not, it wouldn't be the best feeling.

I know, I know...this is the internet, public message board, not besties, etc. I'm not asking for puppies and rainbows, but you can always tell someone how they're overreacting being irrational without tearing someone down.

MarieC78 · August 2013

jess'c'squared said:

I'm putting the disclaimer out there that I like all of you ladies, I don't have any problems with a single poster and I don't have anyone on a "post it note". I would like to also say that I do find that you ladies are very sympathetic and supportive.

Okay, here goes...deep breath, flame retardant suit on .

My FFFC is that I think, at times, some of the ladies on this board lack empathy. They are very quick to tell others how they're a horrible person for feeling the way that they do in certain situations, some times it's warranted, but more often it's not.

I know a lot of times I wouldn't react the way some of the posters do, but it's not my place to negate someone else's feelings and to tell them they're pieces of shit, horrible friends and wives, etc, because I don't agree with their actions/feelings.

No one is the same and people are going to react differently in certain situations. How would you feel if you had some kind of irrational feeling and people gave you nothing but shit about it? Deserved or not, it wouldn't be the best feeling.

I know, I know...this is the internet, public message board, not besties, etc. I'm not asking for puppies and rainbows, but you can always tell someone how they're overreacting being irrational without tearing someone down.

I think it is easy to be honest (to a fault) when you don't have to look someone in the face and say it.

bishesbcrazy · August 2013

At this point, I'm really only posting this out of a sense of obligation to explain my faith. As I've already said, I respect your position and I'm not trying to persuade/convert you by explaining this.
At first I thought this was @jess'c'squared and was blown away. But I just can't get myself around this idea. That there is some omniscient entity that tests people's faith by making them suffer. Also, when everything was written there wasn't the science to do so much of what's possible today. I mean if your baby was born and something was wrong, your baby just died. It wasn't like it could live it's life through dozens of painful surgeries. So with that idea wouldn't using medical advances already be against god's plan? I'm not like questioning your faith or anything. I just don't get it. I believe ending suffering is an act of mercy.

I'm trying to figure out if this is a good thing or a bad thing....LOL

edenkeever · August 2013

Just to put it out there. I consider myself to be a conservative Christian for the most part...I do not therefore agree with ending ones own life. But my dad was moved to hospice today and I find nothing wrong with it. He has been fighting leukemia for two years, had a failed bone marrow transplant and now chemo has ceased to be effective. The only treatment that was keeping his counts at bay was making him miserable and his quality of life has been horrendous. So I see nothing wrong with him choosing to forgo future treatment and to go with palliative care. Sometimes stopping all of the invasive, painful procedures is the only option.

I'm not sure if hospice care or refusing treatment is what some people are referring to...but in case it was, just wanted to throw that out there.

blainethetrain · August 2013

I think onesies that have cutesie/sassy sayings are tacky. For example, "Hail to the Queen."

RanFan28 · August 2013

edenkeever said:
Just to put it out there. I consider myself to be a conservative Christian for the most part...I do not therefore agree with ending ones own life. But my dad was moved to hospice today and I find nothing wrong with it. He has been fighting leukemia for two years, had a failed bone marrow transplant and now chemo has ceased to be effective. The only treatment that was keeping his counts at bay was making him miserable and his quality of life has been horrendous. So I see nothing wrong with him choosing to forgo future treatment and to go with palliative care. Sometimes stopping all of the invasive, painful procedures is the only option.

I'm not sure if hospice care or refusing treatment is what some people are referring to...but in case it was, just wanted to throw that out there.

I hope you don't mind me adding to this @edenkeever. When one is a Christian the end game is heaven/eternity. If the loved one, be it an ailing father (I am so so sorry for your family, Eden. That is a terrible decison that must be made.) or a premie baby, the end game is heaven. I do not include myself in a denomination that believes in p penance, which was used in the OP, but sometimes, I see it as selfish to continue suffering on this earth, thus delaying perfection and end of suffering forever in eternity with God. Just another thought...

SoMoNY · August 2013

nicholssquared said:

suzalie said:

I would say it's one thing if the person cannot survive without some kind of medical intervention. It's a choice to continue the medication/life support and the result of choosing not to may be the natural death of the person, but that's different to me than someone who is in pain because of a medical condition or age who can continue living but just doesn't want to. I don't see how them being in pain gives them any more the right to decide to take their life than someone who isn't, but is just unhappy or in a bad situation.
I think the difference is that if someone is unhappy or in a bad situation, there is treatment for that. It doesn't have to stay so terrible. If someone is living with chronic terrible pain or disease that will never get better or will get worse, I can totally see why they should have the right to choose to end the pain.

I can certainly respect your position, but I'll have to disagree because of my religious viewpoint.

As a Christian, my understanding is that our bodies were created by God for a purpose that only God knows, and even in our suffering and pain there is a greater reason or end which is ultimately good. To cut one's life short for whatever reason is to refuse to cooperate with God's plan for you and is sinfully disrespectful of Him. Furthermore, by our very nature we are all imperfect beings, but God calls for us to be perfect to be with Him, and in suffering there can be penance for one's imperfections - suffering can be spiritually healing.

At this point, I'm really only posting this out of a sense of obligation to explain my faith. As I've already said, I respect your position and I'm not trying to persuade/convert you by explaining this.

I think its pretty messed up to expect people in chronic pain to grin and bear it because god has some kind of plan.

Ktrue85 · August 2013

suzalie said:

I would say it's one thing if the person cannot survive without some kind of medical intervention. It's a choice to continue the medication/life support and the result of choosing not to may be the natural death of the person, but that's different to me than someone who is in pain because of a medical condition or age who can continue living but just doesn't want to. I don't see how them being in pain gives them any more the right to decide to take their life than someone who isn't, but is just unhappy or in a bad situation.
I think the difference is that if someone is unhappy or in a bad situation, there is treatment for that. It doesn't have to stay so terrible. If someone is living with chronic terrible pain or disease that will never get better or will get worse, I can totally see why they should have the right to choose to end the pain.

I can certainly respect your position, but I'll have to disagree because of my religious viewpoint.

As a Christian, my understanding is that our bodies were created by God for a purpose that only God knows, and even in our suffering and pain there is a greater reason or end which is ultimately good. To cut one's life short for whatever reason is to refuse to cooperate with God's plan for you and is sinfully disrespectful of Him. Furthermore, by our very nature we are all imperfect beings, but God calls for us to be perfect to be with Him, and in suffering there can be penance for one's imperfections - suffering can be spiritually healing.

At this point, I'm really only posting this out of a sense of obligation to explain my faith. As I've already said, I respect your position and I'm not trying to persuade/convert you by explaining this.

Okay, I'm ready to be flamed hardcore for this and even hesitated to his "post reply", but I am also adamant in my own beliefs so let's do this FFFC friends.

I'd be extremely impressed if someone could explain to me what "healing" my father went through during his last few months suffering with brain, colon, and kidney cancer. The kidney cancer spread to every major organ and bone. He couldn't move without excruciating pain and/or breaking a bone. He didn't have the energy to eat, to swallow, to speak, to even push his own shit out of his colon. We had to humiliate him to try and keep him alive. and clean. He suffered for no reason other than cancer is a cunt. I'd love to hear why he, or anyone for that matter, is expected to go through that in order to be perfect and acceptable in God's eyes. I was with him every minute of every day for months as he moved to home hospice, and when he took his last few breaths, and I saw his face cringe with extreme pain as his heart finally stopped beating, there isn't a religious person in this world who could have watched that happen and then try and tell me it was meant to happen so he could heal spiritually. Fuck that shit, seriously. If it were legal in our state, he would have opted to check out on his own terms, and I would have happily supported him, especially knowing what I know now about how he would have to suffer.

With all that said, I actually do respect everyone's individual beliefs and viewpoints as being their own thing and I don't expect my feelings to change your views, but don't feed me that garbage that it's all for a great purpose because in my own mind and my world, this is laughable. I'll skip on my "purpose" if it means I have to have my future child scoop feces out of my rectum and squirt liquid medications down my throat because I can't clear the mucus out of my windpipe. Give me a magic pill, let's say our goodbyes, and let me peace the fuck out with some dignity and without putting that type of mental image in my loved ones brains for the rest of their lives.

...and I am honestly sorry for any BMB friend I lose for this viewpoint, but this is what my life experiences have taught me. (And I was raised in a strict Italian and Catholic household, I've been through all the classes, the masses, and the prayers. I've read the entire bible more than once. So, I'm not ignorant, just decided to change my views based on real world experiences.)

TheSloppySwish · August 2013

@ktrue85 and @edenkeever, deepest condolences and sympathy to you. I'm so sorry for what you're going through.

With respect to the PPs who have expressed opposition to euthanasia for religious reasons, I really don't understand how that's an argument for it not being legally available to those of us who don't hold those same beliefs.

nicholssquared · August 2013

Soozerella - since it was requested, I'm going to answer your question here! Warning, it's long, and I only work half-days on Friday, so I won't be back to check responses until Monday, sorry in advance.

It's easy for people to assume that God doesn't exist or doesn't care because of the suffering in the world. And I'm an incredibly logically person myself, so I totally get it. The argument goes like this - God is supposed to be omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent. If he's omniscient, then he knows everything and thus knows people are suffering. If he's omnipotent, then he has the power to stop it. But he doesn't. Therefore, he must not be at least one of the three things, omniscient, omnipotent, or omnibenevolent. Therefore, he must either be ambivalent to suffering (or purposfully causing suffering, that is to say malignant), or he does not exist.

But that logic doesn't quite follow when we delve deeper into the meaning of these words. As humans, we don't understand the depths to which God is able to understand, perceive, plan, and judge. He is infinite, and we are finite, so it would literally be impossible for us to know things like he does. This also means that we are unable to see the genuine priority of things, should the world have remained perfect prior to the fall of man. Therefore, we can assume the God knows, in his omniscience, what has true value beyond what we perceive to have value as humans. Thus, God can in fact be working for good, even if we cannot see it. The good may enter into the world in the form of people who express sympathy for the suffering person, and are moved by it to make a donation to a society for research, or volunteer to tend to the dying, etc. Someone else may be helped greatly be this person's sacrifice, but there's no way for us to know that as humans, so it us, it looks merciful to end suffering. It may be mercy for that one individual, but there may be countless people who could be adversely affected by their death - every life matters, but we as humans fail to perceive how much.

Also, we believe that God's purpose for us is not only to be happy and enjoy this life, but also, and more importantly to be able to spend eternity with him. As I said before, Christians believe that pain and suffering, when united to Christ's suffering on the cross through prayer has a similar redemptive quality. Offering up one's pain as a penance for one's faults expresses faith in the suffering of Christ to redeem sin and thus is purgative to the soul. In God's omnibenevolence (which again, is infinite and beyond complete human understanding), we can come to the logical conclusion that by allowing suffering to happen, he can be giving that person an opportunity to attain the spiritual grace to be with him after death.

In conclusion, we cannot know, in our limited human existence, why someone suffers or how it affects their life, their soul or the lives and souls of those around them. We understand that only God has the ability to know those things. Therefore, only God has the ability to know when a person is finished doing good in the world and they can rest in death. Humans can't know, so choosing to end someone's life early (even your own) is in violation of God's design for the world and thus is gravely sinful.

superspecialsnowflake - Goodness, no! I said what I said to help people better understand my faith. Apologetics is a different context than real life situations. I certainly don't impose my faith on people, so it would be completely inappropriate for me to say something like, "you're really blessed to be in pain," to someone with a chronic illness. In this situation, the appropriate thing to do is to express sympathy, tend to their needs, visit them, and pray for them.

edenkeever - Firstly, I'm so sorry your family is going through this! Please know that what you chose can even be morally upheld in Christianity. Choosing to discontinue treatment is different due to the principle of double effect. When someone discontinues treatment, it's because the treatment is failing to help them get better, and therefore is unnecessary. It's not an action one takes, rather a lack of action. The second effect of that choice, while unintended, is the inevitable natural death of the individual. That's different than actively euthanizing someone, which is the initial action, actively taken with the intention of causing that person's death.

Hope that explains it in a little more detail. I understand if lots of you still disagree and I can respect that. Like I said before I'm not out to convert anyone. However, you guys know me - I think that people should just be informed, so that's what I'm doing. Even if you still disagree, I hope that you can understand the perspective a little bit better now that you have more information. Thanks for letting me go on!

SoMoNY · August 2013

My friends son was shot 3 times and died in the Sandy Hook shooting

He was 6 years old and nearly EVERY ONE in class was killed.

(one little girl survived by playing dead)

A child with autism died in his TA arms, another had his jaw blown away and another was shot between the eyes.

Sorry but I'm not buying the god exists and has a plan fairy tale

Ktrue85 · August 2013

@nicholssquared I just wanted to say I appreciated your thought out reply even though I kindly agree to disagree. But that's okay because I have chocolate and will share.

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