Keeping Kids From Toy Guns (LIP) Thoughts?

Stefibeth · August 2013

Keeping Kids From Toy Guns: How One Mother Changed Her Mind

What are your thoughts on the article/topic?

kcisthebombdotcom · August 2013

I have no problem with water guns, Nerf guns, etc. the only kind of gun play that is bothersome is the toy guns that look like real guns. My kids got water guns this summer and have a ball spraying each other. I agree with the attitude in Japan vs here.

peacelove&mama · August 2013

I don't have an issue with toy guns. My MIL is forever trying to convince me to throw them out because they're "bad". No. They are toys. He likes to play make believe games with his friends, and if I take his nerf guns away, guess what? He's just gonna make one out of a stick or some other random object. As far as I'm concerned, him running around with his friends pretending to shoot aliens and using his imagination is a lot better than him sitting in front of the TV or play station.

Louiej · August 2013

A friend of mine "banned" guns in her house. All types, even toys. Her sons have been known to chew their sandwiches into guns to shoot each other. I don't think banning something in your house solves any problems, rather it makes the banned item more appealing.

penguingrrl · August 2013

I would agree with the attitude in Japan more if guns were as readily available here instead of there. One of my biggest fears with encouraging gun play is a child then not recognizing when they come across a real gun (I've seen very real looking fake guns) and having an accident happen. And while we all know that responsible gun owners don't leave their guns where kids can get them we also know that children die from accidental shootings far too often in this country.

I'm not opposed to water guns, although we call them squirters. This is the first summer I've let the kids play with them and it's not without reservation. We don't have nerf guns, but it's not like I'm denying my kids something they're interested in. My girls aren't aware they exist. I'll keep them away from Drew as long as possible as well.

Andrewsgal · August 2013

Here is my story. We had no guns at home (DS had showed no interest), and of course there were none at preschool. I picked DS up one day when he was 2 and the teacher said he was making guns out of duplos and I needed to speak with him about it. 8-| I told her to take the duplos away, she did. The next day he turned a t-Rex into a gun

) It is what it is. We have a few need guns and water guns but more gun play in our house comes from Legos that he makes into guns.

penguingrrl · August 2013

I should add that my kids are so unaware of them that at karate one week the Jui Jistu professor was working one on one with a teenager and among other things they were practicing disarming with a plastic gun. Julia asked what it was having never seen one. It's not something they readily come across around here.

Andrewsgal · August 2013

Living in a gun happy state the toy guns vs real guns is a very real concern. We have addressed it since we bought DS his first toys gun at 3. All of our guns look like toys. We have drilled into them if they see a gun that does not look like a toy (like a nerf gun to run away fast and tell an adult) they have both done it once while at play dates. Of course the guns turned out to be toys, but they get it.

Andrewsgal · August 2013

I also don't hunk sheltering them is the way to go unless you are absolutely not going to let them out of your sight. If we had all girls we probably would not have guns as it is something Dd is not interested in. When we have other little girls here on playdates they will see toy weapons.

penguingrrl · August 2013

So far it's less been sheltering and more just never came up. I'm not going out and buying them or me a gun jut because they should know and neither has ever expressed interest. DH never played with guns. MIL had my mindset and even when he saw them at friends houses they never appealed to him. I'm hoping Drew feels the same way, although I know it might not happen. My brother was about 2 when he started using my barbie dolls as guns (pointing the legs, boobs as a trigger). We still never had more than nerf or water guns and my mom definitely discouraged gun play.

Stefibeth · August 2013

I don't really know my feelings on the topic. I know that guns make me uncomfortable. DS playing with toy guns makes me uncomfortable. I don't know why that is, I might be a product of the current environment. I don't intend to try to shelter them from guns per se, but I can tell you that I probably won't be running out to buy him guns. I don't know... we did play with Nerf/water guns growing up and they were fun. Maybe my opinion will change as he gets older.

Some older girls at a play place yesterday were playing some sort of game with DS and told him when he didn't grab a rail that he was "dead" and once they were all yelling it he started yelling it too. I didn't like that game either...

I do think things are getting out of hand with the recent cases of young kids being punished in school when they haven't really done anything wrong. That's a lot alarmist. I do see how the research would show that there's nothing wrong with gun play.

Andrewsgal · August 2013

I can control a lot about my kids, what they eat, their friends and even what toys they play with at my house. I can't control their imagination. DD never ever played toy guns, DS is different. Like I said the majority of toy guns in our house are lego made. The only way to truly stop gun play would be to take away all Legos. I refuse to do that. They are DS favorite thing in the whole world and I will not take them away due to my fear.

penguingrrl · August 2013

Andrewsgal said:

I can control a lot about my kids, what they eat, their friends and even what toys they play with at my house. I can't control their imagination. DD never ever played toy guns, DS is different. Like I said the majority of toy guns in our house are lego made. The only way to truly stop gun play would be to take away all Legos. I refuse to do that. They are DS favorite thing in the whole world and I will not take them away due to my fear.

Oh, I will fully say that if he's using legos or another toy to make a gun I won't take that toy away. I will, however, punish if he shoots at a person. IMO that's no different than hitting, kicking or biting and I will treat it the same. If he wants to shoot into space I'll be disturbed but will probably tolerate it.

kcisthebombdotcom · August 2013

penguingrrl said:

Andrewsgal said:

I can control a lot about my kids, what they eat, their friends and even what toys they play with at my house. I can't control their imagination. DD never ever played toy guns, DS is different. Like I said the majority of toy guns in our house are lego made. The only way to truly stop gun play would be to take away all Legos. I refuse to do that. They are DS favorite thing in the whole world and I will not take them away due to my fear.

Oh, I will fully say that if he's using legos or another toy to make a gun I won't take that toy away. I will, however, punish if he shoots at a person. IMO that's no different than hitting, kicking or biting and I will treat it the same. If he wants to shoot into space I'll be disturbed but will probably tolerate it.

Oh my.

bridein08 · August 2013

With DH in law enforcement, we have lots of guns in the house. We have one toy squirt gun, and I have bought DS/DH a couple of nerf guns for this upcoming Christmas. DS will probably begin to accompany DH to the shooting range around 4-5 (though DH would like to sooner). Guns are a part of our family culture, but all real guns are locked up in a safe or on DH's hip at all times. If we/someone else asks DS if he is allowed to touch guns when daddy isn't there, he will respond with an enthusiastic "NO." DH does as much gun education as DS will listen to (which isn't much so far), and he plans to continue as he gets older.

He turns any toy he can into a toy gun. He has a fake fishing pole- it is apparently a rifle. Pool noodles, wooden sticks, duplos, all guns. Obviously,

penguingrrl · August 2013

KC_13 said:

penguingrrl said:

Andrewsgal said:

I can control a lot about my kids, what they eat, their friends and even what toys they play with at my house. I can't control their imagination. DD never ever played toy guns, DS is different. Like I said the majority of toy guns in our house are lego made. The only way to truly stop gun play would be to take away all Legos. I refuse to do that. They are DS favorite thing in the whole world and I will not take them away due to my fear.

Oh, I will fully say that if he's using legos or another toy to make a gun I won't take that toy away. I will, however, punish if he shoots at a person. IMO that's no different than hitting, kicking or biting and I will treat it the same. If he wants to shoot into space I'll be disturbed but will probably tolerate it.

Oh my.

I've always been open on here about being a pacifist. This goes along the same lines. I've considered vegetarianism because I don't like hurting animals. I don't spank and didn't circumsize my son because I can't stand the thought of hurting a human being. If there were a draft when he was of the age to be drafted DH would have claimed moral objection to serving. In my mind this is within the same set of values. Nothing that will hurt others.

kcisthebombdotcom · August 2013

penguingrrl said:

KC_13 said:

penguingrrl said:

Andrewsgal said:

I can control a lot about my kids, what they eat, their friends and even what toys they play with at my house. I can't control their imagination. DD never ever played toy guns, DS is different. Like I said the majority of toy guns in our house are lego made. The only way to truly stop gun play would be to take away all Legos. I refuse to do that. They are DS favorite thing in the whole world and I will not take them away due to my fear.

Oh, I will fully say that if he's using legos or another toy to make a gun I won't take that toy away. I will, however, punish if he shoots at a person. IMO that's no different than hitting, kicking or biting and I will treat it the same. If he wants to shoot into space I'll be disturbed but will probably tolerate it.

Oh my.

I've always been open on here about being a pacifist. This goes along the same lines. I've considered vegetarianism because I don't like hurting animals. I don't spank and didn't circumsize my son because I can't stand the thought of hurting a human being. If there were a draft when he was of the age to be drafted DH would have claimed moral objection to serving. In my mind this is within the same set of values. Nothing that will hurt others.

I would agree with much of your list. I don't agree that parents should control their children's pretend play. It's an important learning tool and its disproven that roughhousing/imaginary play like that leads to aggressive behavior. I mean, I'd correct my kid if he starts walking up to strangers in the supermarket and yells "imma bust a cap in your ass bitch" while pointing/shooting a pretend gun (and probably have a lengthy discussion with his preschool teachers) but otherwise I believe in butting out.

penguingrrl · August 2013

KC_13 said:

penguingrrl said:

KC_13 said:

penguingrrl said:

Andrewsgal said:

I can control a lot about my kids, what they eat, their friends and even what toys they play with at my house. I can't control their imagination. DD never ever played toy guns, DS is different. Like I said the majority of toy guns in our house are lego made. The only way to truly stop gun play would be to take away all Legos. I refuse to do that. They are DS favorite thing in the whole world and I will not take them away due to my fear.

Oh, I will fully say that if he's using legos or another toy to make a gun I won't take that toy away. I will, however, punish if he shoots at a person. IMO that's no different than hitting, kicking or biting and I will treat it the same. If he wants to shoot into space I'll be disturbed but will probably tolerate it.

Oh my.

I've always been open on here about being a pacifist. This goes along the same lines. I've considered vegetarianism because I don't like hurting animals. I don't spank and didn't circumsize my son because I can't stand the thought of hurting a human being. If there were a draft when he was of the age to be drafted DH would have claimed moral objection to serving. In my mind this is within the same set of values. Nothing that will hurt others.

I would agree with much of your list. I don't agree that parents should control their children's pretend play. It's an important learning tool and its disproven that roughhousing/imaginary play like that leads to aggressive behavior. I mean, I'd correct my kid if he starts walking up to strangers in the supermarket and yells "imma bust a cap in your ass bitch" while pointing/shooting a pretend gun (and probably have a lengthy discussion with his preschool teachers) but otherwise I believe in butting out.

While I otherwise stay out of pretend play the thought of my child shooting at a living being turns my stomach. Maybe it will change if I have a kid who is interested in that and I have trouble preventing it, but for now I do intend to treat it as any other violent action.

Andrewsgal · August 2013

So penguin serious question. What about light saber battles? Star Wars is huge at our house and light saber battles complete with sound effects are a daily occurrence. Punishing kids for pretend play seems like a sure fire way to stifle their creativity.

penguingrrl · August 2013

Not sure honestly. I have no interest in Star Wars. DH loves it but feels it's for older kids (8+) and doesn't like how it's now being marketed to younger children. I'm also sure that with older kids I'm more likely to loosen up a touch on my weapon rules. Somehow guns themselves are far worse to me than other things too. I think because it's so much easier to accidentally shoot someone mistaking a real gun for a toy than to accidentally kill someone with a sword or a nunchuck or a kitchen knife.

I also have both girls enrolled in karate since it's an art and I do want them to know self defense (and because my brother is an instructor and his boss gives it to us for free).

kcisthebombdotcom · August 2013

Guns are not toys. They are tools for hunters and cops. I don't like when adults or children treat them as toys. A super soaker is the only you gun allowed in our house. RE: lightsabers we have some thanks to my brother. My husband actually always mentions its a weapon of peace. Also if my kid finds a legit lightsabers in real life that cuts off hands. Then i'd re think having them here c

My son has a toy tool kit that has saws and screwdrivers. I suppose the logic that they're not toys but tools doesn't apply here. At three my kid also realizes the police protect him and there are good guys/bad guys. When him and his imaginary friends pretend to be policeman and get the bad guys I suppose I should be punishing and discouraging that kind of play since clearly thAts going to encourage a shooting spree down the road.

penguingrrl · August 2013

I believe that guns aren't toys and that the casual nature of using something as a toy is more likely to lead to unhealthy familiarity. I worry about kids then getting hold of a real gun and not recognizing it for what it is (while I don't and won't own a gun and prefer my kids play with kids whose parents don't own guns I can't control everything, including whether people lie about owning a gun or storing it safely) then playing with it and thinking it's a toy.

Andrewsgal · August 2013

Okay so do those of you who are antigun toys. My question. What will you do when your child makes a gun our of a block or sticks? I ask because we have only nerf guns (same as a super soaker to me) and water guns, but no toy guns and DS still manages to turn most toys into a gun, sword or light saber.

Stefibeth · August 2013

Hav=Fath said:

For you that do not allow guns (are we actually talking about this again!?) do you feel your kids will be safer for it because A) they won't mistake a real gun for a toy and get accidentally shot or do you think they will be less violent when they're older? It seems like these are the 2 main reasons, just wondering if there were others or if it's just these 2.

I guess I'm not really in the "not allow guns" camp. I said above that I don't like the idea, but we really haven't run into the issue too much. I'm certainly not going to introduce it, but like anything else I don't love, when the situation arises I'll probably just bite my tongue and let my kids experience it.

I can say I don't like the toy guns that look like real guns. I can see how that could lead to accidents (although I'm sure it's an extremely rare situation). I think aggressive play is fine for kids, good even, especially for boys. I don't necessarily think that gun play will lead to aggression. I don't really know why I'm uncomfortable with it. I guess because I don't think guns are a game. I don't think violence is fun. I know guns don't always equal violence, but I think in a lot of the imaginative play I can think of it is mock violence. Maybe I don't want my kids to mimic something that disturbs me.

This thread has given me a lot to think about on the topic though. I'm certain we'll run into the gun thing, and probably pretty soon.

penguingrrl · August 2013

Honestly, if he creatively turns something into it I'll allow it. Not happily, but I do encourage creativity (I just don't think shooting people or things is very creative).

Okay, I'm out for the afternoon (not because of this thread lol!) at swim lessons and library story time. I'm sure this will all have blown over before I return

WinsyWade · August 2013

Andrewsgal said:

Here is my story. We had no guns at home (DS had showed no interest), and of course there were none at preschool. I picked DS up one day when he was 2 and the teacher said he was making guns out of duplos and I needed to speak with him about it. 8-| I told her to take the duplos away, she did. The next day he turned a t-Rex into a gun ) It is what it is. We have a few need guns and water guns but more gun play in our house comes from Legos that he makes into guns.

Same here. DS2 makes guns out of everything. I really don't have a problem with it, unless he's doing it in public and I'm getting side-eyed. Then I make him stop, but that's my uncomfortableness (<-- not a word, I know).

kcisthebombdotcom · August 2013

penguingrrl said:

I believe that guns aren't toys and that the casual nature of using something as a toy is more likely to lead to unhealthy familiarity. I worry about kids then getting hold of a real gun and not recognizing it for what it is (while I don't and won't own a gun and prefer my kids play with kids whose parents don't own guns I can't control everything, including whether people lie about owning a gun or storing it safely) then playing with it and thinking it's a toy.

I don't know if this logic applies. My son has a toy saw but hasn't maimed himself trying to access Dhs real one. He knows daddy's real tools are dangerous and not the same as his tools. I think you can teach that. I would think they'd be likely to explore something they have zero familiarity with. I also agree that even if you avoid the concept of toy guys kids will use their imagination. Just this morning ds was pretending to be a policeman and his "gun" was an empty paper towel roll.

notkateanymore · August 2013

I really don't know how I feel about this. I guess I should think more on it. Off the top of my head, my thoughts are that guns are not toys. Why have toys that look like guns? I have no issue with Nerf guns, water guns that are orange, pink, etc. but the realistic guns bother me and I think there isn't a need for a Glock water gun. The chances are that my son will hunt, since DH bird hunts a couple of times a year, but it's not my first choice of activities to do.

Louiej · August 2013

I agree - people are just way too uptight about toy guns/weapons. Water, nerf, cap, swords, nunchuks, whatever. teach them about real and play and let them have fun.

My kids walk around with their swords and nunchucks tucked in the shirts and pants and pretend to be ninja turtles. They are using their imaginations and are perfectly safe.

They also pretend to race around in race cars and crash, but they still know that a real car must be drive safely and not pass others.T

hey carry sticks and pretend to be jack frost and freeze each other. They crash their building blocks and pretend to blow them up.

We talk about real vs pretend and they do know the difference. They are such good boys, it doesn't worry me in the least.

I agree with others that say, banning only makes them more desireable.

Yep. This....right down to the swords in the pants. They are so creative that just yesterday they were sword fighting with my wooden spoons. I wouldn't want to stifle any part of their wonderfully imaginative personality with my desire that they, instead of laser ninjas or cops and robber zombie pirates, play "office manager" or "business executive". They've got the rest of their lives for that crap.

kcisthebombdotcom · August 2013

KateMW said:

I really don't know how I feel about this. I guess I should think more on it. Off the top of my head, my thoughts are that guns are not toys. Why have toys that look like guns? I have no issue with Nerf guns, water guns that are orange, pink, etc. but the realistic guns bother me and I think there isn't a need for a Glock water gun. The chances are that my son will hunt, since DH bird hunts a couple of times a year, but it's not my first choice of activities to do.

Oh, I don't disagree that I wouldn't keep a toy gun that looked like a glock in my house or let my kid bring it to a playground. I got lost at the idea that pretend play involving guns was a punishable offense.

notkateanymore · August 2013

KC_13 said:

KateMW said:

I really don't know how I feel about this. I guess I should think more on it. Off the top of my head, my thoughts are that guns are not toys. Why have toys that look like guns? I have no issue with Nerf guns, water guns that are orange, pink, etc. but the realistic guns bother me and I think there isn't a need for a Glock water gun. The chances are that my son will hunt, since DH bird hunts a couple of times a year, but it's not my first choice of activities to do.

Oh, I don't disagree that I wouldn't keep a toy gun that looked like a glock in my house or let my kid bring it to a playground. I got lost at the idea that pretend play involving guns was a punishable offense.

I skimmed, so I haven't seen that post, but I don't love the idea of kids pointing guns at each other. Would I punish it? Probably not, but I might correct it. I don't think there is necessarily much creativity in shooting somebody.

nosoup4u · August 2013

KC_13 said:

KateMW said:

Oh, I don't disagree that I wouldn't keep a toy gun that looked like a glock in my house or let my kid bring it to a playground. I got lost at the idea that pretend play involving guns was a punishable offense.

I don't think it's punishable, but what's the difference between a kid pretending to shoot someone or a kid pretending to beat someone up/hurt them? I don't see a difference in that, so no, my kids aren't allowed to pretend to shoot each other.

DS1's preschool teachers always had a "no guns, no shooting people" rule, which I think is totally reasonable at home.

But! I think any normalization of guns isn't good, which is my own personal feelings towards them. It definitely colors how I view toy guns (i.e. we have none, and we will never purposely buy any, water, nerf, etc.).

jenniann87 · August 2013

I am not against toy guns, heck SS has probably 10 nerf guns and a few super soakers. I will allow DS to have the same when he shows an interest but I wont allow him to have any realistic looking toy guns.

kcisthebombdotcom · August 2013

nosoup4u said:

KC_13 said:

KateMW said:

Oh, I don't disagree that I wouldn't keep a toy gun that looked like a glock in my house or let my kid bring it to a playground. I got lost at the idea that pretend play involving guns was a punishable offense.

I don't think it's punishable, but what's the difference between a kid pretending to shoot someone or a kid pretending to beat someone up/hurt them? I don't see a difference in that, so no, my kids aren't allowed to pretend to shoot each other.

DS1's preschool teachers always had a "no guns, no shooting people" rule, which I think is totally reasonable at home.

But! I think any normalization of guns isn't good, which is my own personal feelings towards them. It definitely colors how I view toy guns (i.e. we have none, and we will never purposely buy any, water, nerf, etc.).

I'm curious--if your kids can't pretend play to hurt, are they not allowed to roughhouse play with their father either? What about a kid who pretends to be a football player--is he not allowed to tackle siblings while they're playing in the grass in the backyard? Where do you draw the line?
I also don't know how you prevent kids from being exposed to toy guns. This is the first year we've done water guns and they were at a friends birthday party. When ds saw them in the store and wanted them for play at his house, I couldn't think of a very compelling reason to say no.

kcisthebombdotcom · August 2013

letranger said:

I have a whole lot of feels on good versus bad. So coppers getting the bad guys would be a post all on its own.

I agree with avoiding using good vs bad when talking about your kid and their behavior. I still don't support jumping In a kids pretend play to correct them. I also don't support jumping in a kids play with a peer to tell them they're doing something wrong unless the other child is at risk of getting hurt or is not comfortable with the way the other child is playing.

barnwife · August 2013

I grew up in a household with no guns. My parents don't hunt. However, hunting is generally a big activity in the area. So I knew what guns were. And my parents taught "if you see one, get a grownup" type of thing.

I still live in an area where hunting is common. DH grew up with guns. We have some (for hunting). I don't love it. But it is a need for us. They are used to get rid of critters bothering our chickens.

J. is already quite aware of what guns do. We reinforce that they are for Daddy only. If he sees one unattended (not ours - they are stored), he is to get a grownup.

We haven't run into the toy gun scenario yet. It will happen this weekend (we are going to a wild west festival). I am sure there will be realistic toy guns there. I haven't decided how to word what we need to say to J. But I am sure that (this weekend or at some other future point), toy guns will make an appearance in our home.

Mrs.Hizzo · August 2013

We don't have toy guns because they make me uncomfortable. That's it. I don't think I'm necessarily influencing future safety or behavior with this rule. I just don't like them. So we don't have them. My boys also turn various things into "guns" and I don't try to prevent it. But I'm not buying anything other than squirt guns.

honkytonk_kid · August 2013

I can't really say "guns are not toys." H has several, and for him they pretty much fit the exact description of a toy. He's not using them for his job, he's not hunting for our dinner, he just thinks it's fun to see if he can hit a target. Or a Dr Pepper can on a log, because we have a little redneck streak. So yeah, real guns can be toys. For adults. Just like there are plently of things adults do for fun that kids shouldn't be allowed to do.

As of now we don't have toy guns for LO. I don't necessarily have a problem with toy guns, although like others have said I expect them to look like toys, not realistic. I don't think I will allow them until he's a bit older and H can have a good long talk with him about gun safety.

Andrewsgal · August 2013

I agree guns are toys for my DH too. He will never use them to defend us (the way they are locked up makes this near impossible) and he will never hunt so toys they are. Let the panty clutching begin.

kcisthebombdotcom · August 2013

Andrewsgal said:

I agree guns are toys for my DH too. He will never use them to defend us (the way they are locked up makes this near impossible) and he will never hunt so toys they are. Let the panty clutching begin.

Best.typo.ever.

Andrewsgal · August 2013

KC_13 said:

Andrewsgal said:

I agree guns are toys for my DH too. He will never use them to defend us (the way they are locked up makes this near impossible) and he will never hunt so toys they are. Let the panty clutching begin.

Best.typo.ever.

Lol I was trying to decide between pearl clutching and panty bunching, guess my sub conscience wanted to combine the two:)

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