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Blended Families
Pamelacake
member
BM just does not get it Update Already
Pamelacake
member
I have tried to put myself in her shoes and empathize but it is impossible bc she just does not care and she put herself in this situation. I actually tried to help her in the beginning.
DH was supposed to feel sorry for BM the day of court bc she got checked and found out that same day that she has cancer again. BM never had cancer and you don't find out in the same day. We have heard every excuse from a spot on her kidney to open heart surgery.
BM is still calling multiple times. I don't feel bad for the judge granting the supervised visitation bc I know SD's will be safe and BM saw them like once every 3 months anyways.. her choice.
DH explained to her what happened in court Wednesday evening, also the day of court and of course BM said DH went in there and lied about her. The only thing that was asked about her was how many times has she seen the children. that was it. Then DH told BM about the call schedule and not to be telling SD's things that BM will not be able to follow through with and to make no promises bc BM always lies to SD's. BM wrote the scheduled times to call down.. and seemed very happy that there was a call schedule..When a call schedule was brought up to BM in March she wanted no part of it. BM told me whe was going to take me to court because I wasn't allowing her to talk to her children..I'm sorry.. I'm not going to wake them up at 10:30 in the evening on a school night so you can lie to them some more *rolls eyes* well she said she wrote it down.. DH had to repeat it 3 times for her. Then DH brought up the supervised visits.. BM was ok with this until she found out that DH or I will be the one to supervise and it will either be at our home or at the park in our town. I don't want to supervise, I wish there was some kind of agency to do it in our area. After arguing with DH over the every other Saturday visitation BM got to speak to SD's on the phone. and we left it on speaker phone which I know we are not supposed to do but we did bc we knew what she was going to say to them and try to manipulate like she always does. I did not say anything at all.
BM told SD's that she was going to take them to pick out backpacks, she had new things at her home for them for when they come over.. all kinds of things. DH had to interfere in the conversation a few times.. telling BM not to tell them those things bc she was not taking SD's anyplace and they would not be going to her home. BM told DH that she hadn't had a chance to ask him yet but wanted him to take the girls to follow bm and FI to wal mart on a Thursday. DH told BM it didn't work like that. SD's didn't want to talk to her on the phone at all. They were very defiant, told her she wasn't their mother and that their real mommy was here, it was a mess.
THe whole conversation was pathetic.. neither SD wanted to talk to BM and I felt bad for her but BM did this to herself.
shortly after the call was ended a voicemail came through on the phone. BM must have called back unknowingly and it was a conversation between BM and FI. BM was yelling about the supervised visits, BM said it's not gonna work every other Saturday supervised, FI asked who was supervising, BM said DH or me, FI said her or the drug dealer, referring to DH. they realized the phone was on and the vm ended. DH is not a drug dealer and BM has accused him of this in the recent past. we don't use drugs and don't have anyone over that does.. I will not have that around these children. When we were younger, yeah. .so what.
DH called BM and told her that if she was going to talk crap about people she needs to be sure to not leave it on their vm. She denied anyone calling DH a drug dealer so DH repeated their conversation from his vm word for word and BM still denied it. DH told BM that he would see her in court or when the court order came whichever came first and ended the call.
Nothing from BM has been responded to since then. BM left a vm last night saying that she doesn't understand why SD's can't talk to FI on the phone because SD's call him daddy just like they call me mommy. LIE. SD's have met FI 2 times and for maybe 10 hours total. DH already told BM the calls were for her and the girls. BM also asked why she had to have supervised visitation. DH already told BM what the judge said and it's not like it's not obvious anyways. BM's last statement in this vm was I will be calling my girls on Saturday and she made it sound like a threat.. by all means call your girls, you have that right but your call day is sunday, maybe you will get back in good with SD's but from the other conversation.. You are going to have to work hard.
I see counseling together in their future if she doesn't just lose rights altogether. BM was yelling at them for telling her how they felt. I know it's wrong to listen in but what do we do.. explain to SD's that if she starts doing that they can end the call if they want? I have no clue!
My Loves= SD 18 SS 16 SS13 DD13 DS10 SD6 SD5
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Re: BM just does not get it Update Already
So quit calling her back. Quit communicating with her at all. Meet in the designated place for visitation, without speaking to her beforehand, and if she does not show within 15 or 30 minutes, leave. Do not respond to the lies on the phone either. Your SDs are.both old enough to know that she is lying. Explain to them the new order of things. Tell them that daddy and mommy could not agree, so a judge helped decide and.he decided that BM can only talk to then at X times and can only sese them.at X time at X place and that you or your H have to be there because it is just safer that way. If they ask why, just tell them that is what the judge decided and it isn't up to mommy and daddy anymore.
Now that you have what is needed in court, and you couldn't have hoped for a better outcome, quit creating more drama for these girls and for your family. You have no idea how lucky your family is to have had things go the way they did in court. You lucked out and just had a huge pile of brusg cleared off the road. All you have to do is drive straight now.
The poor girls are going to be so conflicted as to who they should spend time with during the visits since you/DH and BM are going to be there. And really, the level of animosity between the adults is so high, it's not good for the girls to be a witness to that. Let's give BM the benefit of the doubt here (I know, I know) and in a few years she realizes what she's done and she wants to repair the relationship with her girls. Is she really going to be able to do that with you and DH watching over her during her visits? Any decent lawyer will be able to argue parental alienation (not saying that you or DH are doing this) after a few visits and get the supervised visits changed. And then what? BM gets to go about hurting those girls again?
This whole situation bothers me. I cannot believe that there isn't some sort of agency in your area that assists with these things. Sure, BM would probably have to pay for the person to come out and supervise the visits. But sheesh at least make the visits neutral so the poor kids aren't caught in the middle.
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I know my post was all over the place and for that I apologize.
DH called her to explain what happened in court and then called back after he got the VM. Nothing has been responded to since then. DH wanted to respond, I told him not to worry about it. The stress of that is gone.
BM called the police numerous times and had their house raided, saying DH was a drug dealer while they were together, knowing that her kids would be taken away. The cops left empty handed every time and BM was placed in a psychiatric unit the last time she did it because she is just very delusional. DH has had the same job for over 10 years. BM also had CPS involved for pretty close to their whole marriage over it bc cps got involved and DH and BM had to both take drug tests at random. The only reason they still had SD's was bc DH always came back clean. Not BM. BM would not quit smoking pot or drinking for anything.
Experimenting with drugs when much younger and with no kids and dealing drugs are way different, IMO. Did DH smoke pot when they were together.. maybe.. IDK.
SD's do know she is lying but they still have hope that she isn't. I didn't say anything while they were on the phone. DH cut in when BM was telling them things like going to her house and taking them shopping.
DH knows we don't have to respond and he wanted to rub it in her face immediately. I made him promise me he wouldn't do that, and he didn't.
Thank you for the advice on what to say to SD's to prepare them for the changes. I think it will be much better for them. .. in some ways.
My Loves= SD 18 SS 16 SS13 DD13 DS10 SD6 SD5
My thoughts exactly. we don't live in a big town so whatever may happen is one person's word against the other with SD's in the middle.
DH suggested 6yo SD's main counselor do the supervising and the judge kind of just ignored it and asked DH if he were willing to do it. DH wanted to comply.. I know I don't want to do it. They will be so confused.. and I was reading some rules on supervised visits and the supervisor has to sit within listening distance I do not want to do that at all. I was thinking about this so much that I couldn't sleep last night. In some of the rules I read that the parents and the SP's aren't supposed to speak to each other but that was upon pickup and drop off.
I thought.. maybe if BM and I sat down and talked beforehand, or maybe if I told SD's to just pretend that DH and I aren't even there. It is still going to be so hard for SD's. I am glad the visits are supervised but I don't think they will be effective visits for SD's to build a relationship with BM, not with DH or I there.
I will be speaking with 6yo SD's counselor next week and I am going to ask her if she will do it.. if she will it will only be for an hour and if we do it, it's 5 hours long at the most.
If a civilized conversation could be had with BM I would ask her thoughts on it. I thought about writing her a letter.
I really didn't expect this outcome.. I expected mediation.
My Loves= SD 18 SS 16 SS13 DD13 DS10 SD6 SD5
My Loves= SD 18 SS 16 SS13 DD13 DS10 SD6 SD5
It can be told just by the way BM talks if she hasn't taken her medication, has taken it,has taken too much, has taken with alcohol.. by how she talks and what she says.
DH was never a drug dealer DH has used drugs in the past as I have as well, before having kids, experimenting.. looking back yes.. it was stupid. It was a phase. I don't know if DH used drugs with BM, we have never really discussed that. But I do have all of the paperwork from BM calling to have their house raided when they were together saying that DH was dealing drugs and even told them where to find the drugs, there were no drugs and BM did this knowing she could lose her kids then. They came out empty handed numerous times and the last time took BM to a psychiatric hospital which got CPS involved. CPS was involved for most of their marriage and the only reason DH didn't lose his children was bc all of his random drug screens came back clean.. CPS was involved so long bc BM's always came back dirty.
My Loves= SD 18 SS 16 SS13 DD13 DS10 SD6 SD5
I just want to add that I really do hope that even if the counselor can't do it, she can recommend an agency that can, and the judge will go for it. We live in a small town and It's supposed to be either at our home or at the local park. There aren't going to be a lot of adult witnesses at the park, it's mostly teens playing basketball.
I do not want BM in my home for many reasons. SD's will be very confused and not trying to be mean but BM is a clepto. in our state guidelines it states that neither parent is supposed to enter the other's residence unless they have a good relationship and are welcome and not have a negative impact on the children.
I was also thinking about winter time. There is no place to go inside at the park, it would be inside my home and My older SK's despise BM, so that will add stress to them too.
I'm not by any means trying to create drama, I'm trying to think of a way to avoid it.
My Loves= SD 18 SS 16 SS13 DD13 DS10 SD6 SD5
For the phone calls....correcting BM on the phone can be challenging. Here, we were advised to allow the girls to develop their own relationship with their father. He lies, manipulates and alienates them from me. When we stopped intervening, and started just having open conversations after they spoke, following the counselors recommendation, the children were far less conflicted. It was very important not to tell the girls what to think. After a call, we would ask things like "how was it talking with your Dad?" "Did your Dad tell you anything that you have questions about?" and "Did you guys make any plans?" The girls were very aware of reality based on their answers to those questions, and we only had to do some gentle course correction (if, for example, they said "Daddy is taking us to Disney World next month" we could gently ask if they had school next month and how far away Disney was and what they thought.)
Letting them openly converse with BM, despite the insanity, exposes them to who BM is and lets them develop a genuine relationship with their mother based on who their mother actually is. Shielding them or interrupting the conversations can increase the girls uncertainty, as they don't get to have authentic experiences, form their own conclusions, then have those conclusions carefully affirmed when needed. Just some food for thought.
We were advised to monitor the phone calls by the counselor but what you are saying makes a lot more sense. and sounds to be a much better way to do it. We can't guard their feelings or perspective forever. SD's will tell BM on the phone that she is lying and she will start yelling at them.
BM doesn't understand that she has hurt them pretty bad and SD's want to believe BM but they don't. I can tell they want to have faith that she will follow through with something but she just hasn't yet.
I think we will start doing this and see how it goes.. I will definitely talk with SD's first and let them know if they aren't comfortable with something BM is saying they don't have to be rude, just ask to talk about something else.. that is another issue though.. BM will talk over them and when they do start talking about something exciting to them BM is really uninterested to listen to what they are saying and will just start talking about something else..
Thank you so much for the advice and we are definitely going to use it!
My Loves= SD 18 SS 16 SS13 DD13 DS10 SD6 SD5
I just wanted to also add that DH didn't just interfere in that phone conversation to correct or redirect BM.. DH also had to tell SD's to be nice or not to be rude to BM, numerous times.
My Loves= SD 18 SS 16 SS13 DD13 DS10 SD6 SD5
For god sake, do not write her a letter. Are you in counseling? Or Alanon? I think you and your DH are a bit co-dependent. You are taking what she does and says too personally and way too much to heart.
She's nuts. You know that right? And both you and your DH think you can reason with her. You can't. Quit trying.
I have chronic anxiety and fibromyalgia that is induced with stress so yes, I am in counseling. along with some pain management. I am almost off of my anxiety medication and never take anything besides OTC ibuprofen for pain. I mostly manage that through my diet and stretching, exercise. Coming off of my anxiety meds may be the reason for my erratic post. lol *rolls eyes*
I didn't mean write BM a letter about all of that other crap..I was just venting about that just about possibly having SD's counselor supervise the visits, after speaking with the counselor of course. BM doesn't want DH or I to supervise anymore than we do, If the counselor will do it maybe it would be best if she call BM or something. I guess I'm just trying to think ahead. Kind of like someone else said, I just see this leading to disaster.
I'm also still looking for an agency that will do it. DH seems to think it's a good idea that we do it and I haven't had a chance to talk with him about it yet. We did joke about it on the way home from court and it was said that BM or FI would have to go to the gas station to pee. I know we can't do that to them. I want to talk with DH about the pros and cons of this and I know he has no other options as far as family members to do it so it will be up to me to find something.
DH brought up to the judge that he would rather have the counselor do it but could not afford to pay for that at this time and the judge asked him to do it and name one other person. DH named me. I didn't go on the stand. I wasn't given a chance to say anything or suggest something different, I just kind of gave DH a look but couldn't speak to him.
DH told me long ago that there was no reasoning with BM. Ever.
Thanks again. Your input and advice is always appreciated. You have put a lot of things in perspective for me and I really do thank you for that.
My Loves= SD 18 SS 16 SS13 DD13 DS10 SD6 SD5
For god sake, do not write her a letter. Are you in counseling? Or Alanon? I think you and your DH are a bit co-dependent. You are taking what she does and says too personally and way too much to heart.
She's nuts. You know that right? And both you and your DH think you can reason with her. You can't. Quit trying.
This exactly. Once we stopped trying to reason w BM, and started ignoring her craziness, things got about 100 times easier. Trying to figure out why she is the way she is, or making excuses for her, is way too much work and not worth the added stress. She's crazy. That's it. No way around it.You'll hope she'll change. But she won't. Just when you think she's growing up, she'll pull some dumb stunt again. If she misses her time, she misses her time and that's it. There's no make up times in parenting, not in cases like ours anyways.
Don't answer when she calls unless its her time to call. Don't call her.
I know she's nuts and I know she won't change. She has called 13 times so far today. DH did have to respond to one bc she said she was on her way out here and making threats. DH texted her that she was wasting her time. Then she called back saying that she got the court order and was furious b/c she has to do drug screens.. I guess this is a rule for supervised visits.. idk. The only thing the judge said was that if BM had used alcohol or illegal drugs within 24 hours that she was not to have the visit. DH said nothing of her drinking and drug use.
BM did try to come out here and she was met at the end of our road by a police officer. The only reason the police got involved was bc of the threatening voicemails. DH doesn't have a copy of the new court order yet.
The phone is now on silent and in a different room from DH and I and we can finally relax.
My Loves= SD 18 SS 16 SS13 DD13 DS10 SD6 SD5
The judge specified that it was to be at our home or at the local park. If I can find someone else to do it, it would be awesome but even if I can't I will be asking the attorney to put something in for a change of destinations so there will be other people around. I'm kind of thinking the judge is making us do it to make us try to get along but that is impossible.
My Loves= SD 18 SS 16 SS13 DD13 DS10 SD6 SD5
Dis-engaging is very hard. I can attest to that. I have to re-check myself over and over again when XH pisses me off. He did so today.
You have to remind yourself that she is NEVER going to get it and NEVER reason the way she should. It's a lost cause. It's going to take time and I get better and better about it, but I have my moments where I just can not contain myself. Or I trust him again when he's being reasonable. I am finally learning (I think) I can never do that. He will never be someone I can trust. It's inherent in him and that's how you have to see BM. She has proven to you a billion times who she is. So accept that. Refuse to deal with anything remotely drama induced, and focus on raising those children in a quiet, peaceful, loving home.
To do otherwise, is contributing to her insane behavior.
J, documenting all of that crap made me feel like I was in the relationship with the nut job and it's not so much what she says about me, I don't care about that anymore, it's how she treats the kids, it makes me want to puke. I hold my tongue and just vent here or to DH. I can't vent to him very much though bc he just wants to ignore it and lash out at her every once in a while which I know isn't good.
@Kendra86 We asked the attorney about the phone calls months ago, Through the court, there is nothing we can do about it but ignore. We could have done something about the threats but I think that's all they were was threats. FI, Im not so sure about. He is still sending DH things, So he is only allowed on our property to drop BM off and pick her up now.
My Loves= SD 18 SS 16 SS13 DD13 DS10 SD6 SD5