Questions about SD and DD 'sharing'

maceymoma · June 2013

Here is the situation: just recently my DD nan SD have been at each others throats, not literally... Well kinda.

My SD is 2 1/2, but is the size of a 4 year old! And my DD is 16 mo and is, what I would consider, average for her age. If not a little smaller.
Just recently my DD has been taking my SD toys, when she is clearly not playing with them. This always turns into a 'MOM!! look it! A took my toy. And I want to play with it.' I tell my SD that she was clearly not playing with it, and say that she needs to wait her turn. As soon as my DD sets the toy down my SD snatches it away and puts it up high so my DD can't reach it, but still doesn't play with it.
My DD has gotten pretty clever in retrieving these toys, gets a chair or stool to get the toy. I don't stop her, but then it escalates into a tug of war, with much screaming and yelling to let go.
My DD has actually begun to get more physical with my SD Usually SD gets physical first because she knows a simple shove will knock my DD on her but and my SD gets the toy., hitting, pushing ext. When things get physical is when I take the toy and put it where neither of them can get it, and put the child who got physical in time out.
Is this the right choice? Or is there another way to go about it? Am I making the right choice in waiting to see if they can figure it out on their own? Or should I try to defuse the situation before it gets to this point?
Due to my ladies both being so close in age we have double of almost everything, hoping that they would be less aggressive or not aggressive at all. But what one has the other always wants, even when the exact same toy is right in front of them.
I also have a problem with my SD kicking my DD away from her when she doesn't want her next to her. I have tried time outs and anything else I can think of to bring this behavior to an end, but now my DD has begun to show the same kind of behavior towards my SD. What can I do to stop this in its track? Or is this just Sisters being Sisters? I have been involved in my SD life since she was 6mo, and we have 50/50 custody. So she has grown up around both of our DD's. 16 mo and 4mo. I just don't want my 4 month old, as she gets bigger, to think its okay to hit when she doesn't get her way.

Any suggestions?

Ilumine · June 2013

Do a little child development research. Your SD is right on target. And that does not mean that it is a bad thing at all. For a 2 yo, all of HER things (to include toys not being played with) are an extension of HERSELF as she is just now learning independence and what possessions are.

Here's the thing. 2 yos are not developmentally READY to share. Hell, they are just moving out of the world of Parallel Play.

https://www.babycenter.com/0_how-to-teach-your-2-year-old-to-share_63838.bc

The thing is, YOUR 16 month old is even LESS able to understand sharing. So all you are doing here is punishing your SD OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Your forcing a just barely there kid to share with a kid who will not share back. How fair is that?

Not to mention it's not going to help you teach her how to share as much as lead her to resentment.

Littlejen22 · June 2013

Why does this feel like made up drama to me? Could it be because it is her 7th post? Could it be because supposedly her SD is 3 and a half and speaks in sentences long enough for a four year old or that her 2yo SD calls her Mom? And BTW those little stats that the doctor gives you that tell percentages will tell you exactly how big your DD is so you don't have to guess if she is average or a little small.

As for the off chance this is real your SD is a 2yo and not a 4yo so don't expect her to act older.

Ilumine · June 2013

My suggestion is that until both children are ready to learn how to share, you pull back a bit.

1) YOU have to remember, that taking something that does not belong to you without permission first is wrong. It doesn't matter it they are siblings or family or not. How would you feel it this was your SD taking something out of your room without your permission first?

Well, you cannot demand that respect if you do not give it to your children too.

a) So no matter WHAT happens, you must address that with the kids. So when your DD takes something from SD or SD takes something from DD, you need to take the toy out of the child's hand and have the offender say "that they are sorry for taking something without permission" (even though 16 mo cannot really speak right now - it will teach her later in life and teach SD that no one is above manners) and then ask the other child if they can use it.

2) If your SD or DD say yes, PRAISE HER for sharing. This may not happen at first, but as you start working with them on the appropriate manners, and she sees that you are being impartial and that she is not automatically forced to give up HER TOYS AND that she GETS PRAISED for sharing/taking turns, she will do it more.

3) If either child does not want to share/take turns with HER toys, then you redirect the other child. You are not going to build Rome in a day and she is allowed to not share with her toys.

4) Get family toys. At almost 3 and almost 2, there are a number of kids toys that both can play with. I would suggest toys with multiple parts, like the cardboard building blocks, or a kitchen set with double sets of pots and pans. That way they won't have to sqabble over the same item, but they can also play next to each other.

a) this is also good, because then NO ONE can claim ownership. And then you really can teach taking turns if they get caught up.

I did this with my single child - and am STILL doing it at 4. All HER toys were kept in her room and all of the FAMILY toys (even though they were age appropriate) were kept in the family room.

So when we had playdates (and I did 2-3 a week to help socialize my only) we followed these rules.

I also followed the helpful hints from FamilyCenter. Not that I follow FamilyCenter so much, but one of my friends worked for our base's Early Intervention Program. The form she gave me was pretty much the same thing.

Littlejen22 · June 2013

Ilumine if the given info is correct then her DH is not her DDs father so she had a baby and was PG with another mans baby within 3 months.

This has potential for evil step mother written all over it if she is already worrying about her 2.5yo SD wronging her 16mo and teaching bad things to baby. I can promise this is sibling relationship or rather the type of relationship you would expect in a daycare where kids are this close in age. And my kids did not take to time outs at 2 because they just did not understand yet.

Ilumine · June 2013

Littlejen22:
Why does this feel like made up drama to me? Could it be because it is her 7th post? Could it be because supposedly her SD is 3 and a half and speaks in sentences long enough for a four year old or that her 2yo SD calls her Mom? And BTW those little stats that the doctor gives you that tell percentages will tell you exactly how big your DD is so you don't have to guess if she is average or a little small. As for the off chance this is real your SD is a 2yo and not a 4yo so don't expect her to act older.

I don't think this is MUD. I think this is the case of someone who was unprepared to have 3 children under the age of 4. Someone who has two toddlers but has not had the ability to grow as a parent as her child has grown/developed, because she has to parent around another child who is not hers.

I also believe that the math has something to do with it too.

As I stated in my first post, she really needs to do some research on child development. Had she done any she would have known that SHARING is not something you let a baby and toddler try to WORK OUT on their own, but something you TEACH - at an age appropriate level.

Manners are not learned, especially when there are two babies involved, but taught.

maceymoma · June 2013

MelRC117:
Littlejen22:
Ilumine if the given info is correct then her DH is not her DDs father so she had a baby and was PG with another mans baby within 3 months.

This has potential for evil step mother written all over it if she is already worrying about her 2.5yo SD wronging her 16mo and teaching bad things to baby. I can promise this is sibling relationship or rather the type of relationship you would expect in a daycare where kids are this close in age. And my kids did not take to time outs at 2 because they just did not understand yet.
BUT BUT BUT her SD is the SIZE of a 4 year old...doesn't that mean she should treat her like one?
I don't have alot of experience with kids around that age but I definitely picked up on her trying to make the SD appear older (not 2 but 2.5 AND the size of a 4 year old) and her innocent 16 month old.

I do NOT treat my SD as though she is four, I was just saying that because of her size I'm worried that someone will get hurt.
Also she calls me mom cause I have been here since before she could walk. I have never pushed her to say it, she bounces back an fourth from my name and mom. And is it my fault that my SD can speek in sentences?
I was just wanting to know what I was doing wrong. And I guess you all pointed it out pretty clear.
Also, do you think I wanted to get PG so quickly after have my first baby? No, but Sh!t happens and now having to raise three girls all close in age. I'm sorry I'm human and was asking for advise, I'll just Google my questions next time instead of being put down for trying my best.

Thanks anyways though.

maceymoma · June 2013

Ilumine:
My suggestion is that until both children are ready to learn how to share, you pull back a bit. nbsp;1 YOU have to remember, that taking something that does not belong to you without permission first is wrong. nbsp;It doesn't matternbsp;nbsp;it they are siblings or family or not. nbsp;How would you feel it this was your SD taking something out of your room without your permission first? nbsp;Well, you cannot demand that respect if you do not give it to your children too.nbsp;nbsp; nbsp; nbsp;a So no matter WHAT happens, you must address that with the kids. nbsp;So when your DD takes something from SD or SD takes something from DD, you need to take the toy out of the child's hand and have the offender say "that they are sorry for taking something without permission" even though 16 mo cannot really speak right now it will teach her later in life and teach SD that no one is above manners and then ask the other child if they can use it. nbsp;2 If your SD or DD say yes,nbsp;PRAISE HER for sharing. nbsp;This may not happen at first, but as you start working with them on the appropriate manners, and she sees that you are being impartial and that she is not automatically forced to give up HER TOYS AND that she GETS PRAISED for sharing/taking turns, she will do it more.nbsp;3 nbsp;If either child does not want to share/take turns with HER toys, then you redirect the other child. nbsp;You are not going to build Rome in a day and she is allowed to not share with her toys. nbsp;nbsp;4 Get family toys. nbsp;At almost 3 and almost 2, there are a number of kids toys that both can play with. nbsp;I would suggest toys with multiple parts, like the cardboard building blocks, or a kitchen set with double sets of pots and pans. nbsp;That way they won't have to sqabble over the same item, but they can also play next to each other. nbsp; nbsp; nbsp;a this is also good, because then NO ONE can claim ownership. nbsp;And then you really can teach taking turns if they get caught up. I did this with my single child and am STILL doing it at 4. nbsp;All HER toys were kept in her room and all of the FAMILY toys even though they were age appropriate were kept in the family room. nbsp;So when we had playdates and I did 23 a week to help socialize my only we followed these rules. nbsp;I also followed the helpful hints from FamilyCenter. nbsp;Not that I follow FamilyCenter so much, but one of my friends worked for our base's Early Intervention Program. nbsp;The form she gave me was pretty much the same thing. nbsp;nbsp;

Thank you for this advice, I will be separating toys today and moving things around. I am trying my best, the last thing I want to cause is resentment. I just want my SD to be thehappiest she can be when she is with us. Thank you again for the aadvice, and not critasizing me. I want from no kids never pland on having them, I'd had 5 miscarriages with my XH and just though I was never going to have them, to having 3 in in two years. Its hard and I struggle at times, but like I said, I am doing the best I can with what I have.

Ilumine · June 2013

maceymoma:
MelRC117:
Littlejen22:
Ilumine if the given info is correct then her DH is not her DDs father so she had a baby and was PG with another mans baby within 3 months. This has potential for evil step mother written all over it if she is already worrying about her 2.5yo SD wronging her 16mo and teaching bad things to baby. I can promise this is sibling relationship or rather the type of relationship you would expect in a daycare where kids are this close in age. And my kids did not take to time outs at 2 because they just did not understand yet.
BUT BUT BUT her SD is the SIZE of a 4 year old...doesn't that mean she should treat her like one?
I don't have alot of experience with kids around that age but I definitely picked up on her trying to make the SD appear older (not 2 but 2.5 AND the size of a 4 year old) and her innocent 16 month old.
I do NOT treat my SD as though she is four, I was just saying that because of her size I'm worried that someone will get hurt. Also she calls me mom cause I have been here since before she could walk. I have never pushed her to say it, she bounces back an fourth from my name and mom. And is it my fault that my SD can speek in sentences? I was just wanting to know what I was doing wrong. And I guess you all pointed it out pretty clear. Also, do you think I wanted to get PG so quickly after have my first baby? No, but Sh!t happens and now having to raise three girls all close in age. I'm sorry I'm human and was asking for advise, I'll just Google my questions next time instead of being put down for trying my best. Thanks anyways though.

First, just because she started calling you mom, does not mean that she SHOULD call you mom. I highly suggest an alternative term of endearment. She has a mother who is there 50% of the time and therefor gets the respect that title defines.

This is not a slam per se, it is just fact.

Second, bully for your SD speaking in full sentences. Now that you have pointed that out, I think that this may also be part of the problem. Because she SPEAKS like she is older you are assuming that she has an older maturity level. Intelligence does not equal maturity and the ability to understand social niceties.

Yes, I DO believe that you are treating your SD like she is 4. YOU are the one who is sitting there watching these situations go down without any parental interference UNTIL your SD has to get physical to protect what is hers. You seem to be expecting her to react to YOUR child's poor actions in a more mature manner - ie sharing.

2yos do not share. So again, you are either expecting her to be something she is not OR

Third, you are demand her to do MORE than you are demanding of your own child. (hence the evil stepmother comment). YOU ARE PERFECTLY OK WITH YOUR CHILD TAKING SOMETHING THAT BELONGS TO SOMEONE ELSE.

You did not ask how to handle your own child's bad behavior, you want to know how to make your SD share HER things and how to not hit so YOUR other child doesn't learn bad behaviors.

You do know that if you dealt with your ODD's bad behavior (the taking without asking) to begin with, your SD wouldn't have to fight back and then your YDD wouldn't have to learn bad behaviors from either of the older girls, RIGHT?

Fourth, I actually am not judging you for getting pregnant by a man with a 4-5 month old. I would have before I came to this site. But now I DO understand the actual numbers of NICE guys who do stupid things with women they are not in relationships.

But I DO think that this has affected how you and your husband parent your children. And you need to figure that out before you create even more resentment with your SD, which will only lead to MORE issues down the line.

Fifth, yes you do need to google more. I am the queen of researching things for the most SCIENTIFICALLY based results.

When you have ALL OF THE SCIENTIFICALLY BASED FACTS to learn from, you can then apply what works best for YOUR INDIVIDUAL CHILD. Ex, some kids need CIO while others need you to tweek their sleep schedules. Or like my kid, I had to do a combination of both to get her to sleep.

Me telling you to do the research is not a slam. It is reasonable bit of advice,

Good luck.

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