HTT Food Stamps

jpeazybreezy · May 2013

Food stamps. Government housing. Social Security. Student loans.

They're all broken. They all suck. They're all run by the government.

You wanna fix the problem? Privatize that ish.

The money can still come from the gov, but let a private coporations handle that it. Lets see how long it takes to "clean up the system".

And let me also add that the people you see rolling in their fancy pants and fancy cars are more than likely abusers of the system. Not too hard since, yes, it is run by the government.

One more thing: Drug testing for food stamps is hand in hand with the perpetuation of the stereotype of what a person on welfare looks like, and that is disgusting. It also lets me know that classism, is alive an well in our country. Poor people don't matter, who cares if they have to jump through more hoops, their poor.

OH, and saying that "I have to take a drug test to get a job, why not take a drug test for benefits" lets me know just how little you know about the way the government is supposed to function. Next time you require fire/police assistance, lets make sure you're drug free then too, k? I mean, you can chose whether or not to call them for help, right?

kimbo1216 · May 2013

RedheadBaker:
I'm also baffled by all the "how is this unconstitutional?" BS. The Fourth Amendment protects you from unreasonable searches by the government. Please note "by the government," not your potential employer. Requiring a drug test with no evidence that the applicant is in fact using drugs is an unreasonable search.

To play devil's advocate: It could be argued that if you are receiving benefits from the government, then the government then becomes your employer. And to me it's not unreasonable search anyway. They aren't doing it just because. They'd be doing it for a reason. And you don't have to do it. But if you don't, you don't get stamps.

When it comes down to it though,I'm on the fence. I see both sides of the argument. I don't think this is a black and white issue at all. I feel the same way about most political issues which is probably why I have a hard time identifying with political parties.

LucyHoneychrrch · May 2013

kimbo1216:

RedheadBaker:
I'm also baffled by all the "how is this unconstitutional?" BS. The Fourth Amendment protects you from unreasonable searches by the government. Please note "by the government," not your potential employer. Requiring a drug test with no evidence that the applicant is in fact using drugs is an unreasonable search.

To play devil's advocate: It could be argued that if you are receiving benefits from the government, then the government then becomes your employer. And to me it's not unreasonable search anyway. They aren't doing it just because. They'd be doing it for a reason. And you don't have to do it. But if you don't, you don't get stamps.

When it comes down to it though,I'm on the fence. I see both sides of the argument. I don't think this is a black and white issue at all. I feel the same way about most political issues which is probably why I have a hard time identifying with political parties.

"a reason" =/= articulable suspicion.

asilwhite · May 2013

dh13:
asilwhite:
SuperSecretStatus:
The blatant ignorance and classist comments in this thread are appalling. I wonder if some of you actually believe that complete and utter nonsense that you're spewing today. I can't say that I'm surprised at all though.nbsp;There's so much wrong here I don't even know where to start.nbsp;

Seriously. I'm just so disgusted today. I also LOVE how everyone is assuming that people who need food stamps are drug addicts or are bad parents or are in gangs.
I am the one who mentioned gangs (if you are referring to me, I was the one who mentioned I live in an area populated by gang members). I just want to clarify that when I mentioned those gang members, it was in response to geraldo speaking of income and I replied about unreported income. That response had nothing to do with whether or not they were receiving assistance or not, it was just to mention that the statistics provided can be skewed by those who do not report their income accurately. 
We would be idiots if we assumed that ALL recipients of government assistance were drug dealers or "bad" people in general. After my parents divorce, my hard working, single mom was able to feed my sister and I through government assistance and for that, I am grateful. Is there abuse in the system? Absolutely. Like I also previously mentioned, I even witnessed my own friend use her food stamps as payment for rent to another roommate (and no, she was not a drug user). Obviously, there so far is no consensus on to how to "fix" these problems within the system, and thats why there is such a hot debate on it to this day.

I actually wasn't referencing any 1 comment specifically but rather the gross generalization I felt that was occurring on this board where all people who receive food stamps are "unsavory"

BLT20051 · May 2013

My eyes are bleeding. I can't believe I just read all that nonsense.

meringue123 · May 2013

jpeazybreezy:

One more thing: Drug testing for food stamps is hand in hand with the perpetuation of the stereotype of what a person on welfare looks like, and that is disgusting. It also lets me know that classism, is alive an well in our country.nbsp; Poor people don't matter, who cares if they have to jump through more hoops, their poor.
OH, and saying that "I have to take a drug test to get a job, why not take a drug test for benefits" lets me know just how little you know about the way the government is supposed to function.nbsp; Next time you require fire/police assistance, lets make sure you're drug free then too, k? I mean, you can chose whether or not to call them for help, right?
nbsp;

This exactly is my problem. Why don't we propose drug testing for all public benefits? Oh, that's right, because we are only worried about the benefits poor people use.

taylormarie923 · May 2013

For the record, I have received food stamps. I know how the system works and I used them for three months when both my husband and I were unemployed.

I also am not naive enough to think that all food stamp users are drug addicts, I am just using that line of thinking (brought up in the initial post) to argue why drug testing is a dumb idea.

Wino0920 · May 2013

People who just come here and start insulting are not intelligent enough for me to have a conversation with.

If I were to walk into a bank and ask for a loan and they told me to jump through their hula hoop, I would. If I were to go to my parents or a family member and ask for a loan, and they told me their terms, I would agree.

So if I went and asked the govt for money that I didn't have to pay back with interest, I would follow their terms as well.

People that ask for help don't set the terms and tell the loaner what they will and won't do.

If that is ignorant, classless, and privileged, then yes I am those things.

CinemaGoddess · May 2013

Wino0920:
People who just come here and start insulting are not intelligent enough for me to have a conversation with. If I were to walk into a bank and ask for a loan and they told me to jump through their hula hoop, I would. If I were to go to my parents or a family member and ask for a loan, and they told me their terms, I would agree. So if I went and asked the govt for money that I didn't have to pay back with interest, I would follow their terms as well. People that ask for help don't set the terms and tell the loaner what they will and won't do. If that is ignorant, classless, and privileged, then yes I am those things.

So you would seriously go into a bank, and if they asked for a sample of your DNA for testing you would not be "Wait, WHUT?" you would just be "Cool beans, cheek swabs FTW!"

[Deleted User] · May 2013

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Wino0920 · May 2013

CinemaGoddess:
Wino0920:
People who just come here and start insulting are not intelligent enough for me to have a conversation with.

If I were to walk into a bank and ask for a loan and they told me to jump through their hula hoop, I would. If I were to go to my parents or a family member and ask for a loan, and they told me their terms, I would agree.

So if I went and asked the govt for money that I didn't have to pay back with interest, I would follow their terms as well.

People that ask for help don't set the terms and tell the loaner what they will and won't do.

If that is ignorant, classless, and privileged, then yes I am those things.
So you would seriously go into a bank, and if they asked for a sample of your DNA for testing you would not be "Wait, WHUT?" you would just be "Cool beans, cheek swabs FTW!" 

Sure would!! Again they are helping me out, not the other way around.

kimbo1216 · May 2013

GeraldoRivera:
Are you really driving a BMW, wearing designer jeans, and carrying designer handbags at $2,400 a month, including feeding a child?

I'm thinking that people who do this must have unreported income or something. I have always wondered how some people manage to get away with this.

What sucks is that I truly believe people doing this are the exception, not the rule. Unfortunately, the exceptions give everyone else who truly needs the benefits a bad name.

Somewhat OT but it's along the same lines of misuse of government benefits: This baby will cost us approximately $6000. I don't make a lot of money. If DH and I were divorced/unmarried, I could easily have this baby for free on medicaid. I don't because although the 6k hit sucks, we'll manage. Plus I'd rather choose my doctor and hospital and not be subject to whatever medicaid covers.

My point is that not everyone takes advantage of the system. And just because there are people that do, doesn't mean we should stop providing these benefits. I do wish we had a way to better regulate them, but I don't have the answer for how to do that.

CinemaGoddess · May 2013

Wino0920:
CinemaGoddess:
Wino0920:
People who just come here and start insulting are not intelligent enough for me to have a conversation with. If I were to walk into a bank and ask for a loan and they told me to jump through their hula hoop, I would. If I were to go to my parents or a family member and ask for a loan, and they told me their terms, I would agree. So if I went and asked the govt for money that I didn't have to pay back with interest, I would follow their terms as well. People that ask for help don't set the terms and tell the loaner what they will and won't do. If that is ignorant, classless, and privileged, then yes I am those things.
So you would seriously go into a bank, and if they asked for a sample of your DNA for testing you would not be "Wait, WHUT?" you would just be "Cool beans, cheek swabs FTW!"
Sure would!! Again they are helping me out, not the other way around.

Then you are ignorant, classless and privileged. My god have mercy on your soul.

las7838 · May 2013

GeraldoRivera:
Also: Under federal rules, to be eligible for benefits a households[1] income and resources must meet three tests:[2] Its gross monthly income
that is, its income before any of the programs deductions are
applied generally must be at or below 130 percent of the poverty
line.nbsp; For a family of three, the poverty line in federal fiscal year
2013 is 1,591 a month.nbsp; Thus, 130 percent of the poverty line for a
threeperson family is 2,069 a month, or 24,828 a year.nbsp; The poverty
level is higher for bigger families and lower for smaller families.[3] Its net income, or income after deductions are applied, must be at or below the poverty line.Its assets must
fall below certain limits:nbsp; households without an elderly or disabled
member must have assets of 2,000 or less, and households with an
elderly or disabled member must have assets of 3,250 or less.nbsp;nbsp;OK, let's say you're a family of three. The maximum you can make each month and qualify for food stamps is 2,069. At that level, you get approximately 412 a month in food stamps. nbsp;Are you really driving a BMW, wearing designer jeans, and carrying designer handbags at 2,400 a month, including feeding a child?nbsp;

If you are not reporting all of your income you sure can, hence those abusing the system.

I still fail to see how the forth amendment applies to something that is optional? You as a citizen have a choice to apply for these benefits, no the government can't force you to take a drug test, but in order to receive this benefit you must consent to a drug test through your own free will. The government can't force you to do it you have to choose to do so.

I was also under the impression that most of these laws provided other means for minors to get benefits. In the recent law passed in Texas minors still get benefits through a designated 3rd party. Additionally an applicant can reapply for benefits in 6 months if they successfully complete a drug rehab program. This certainly has the potential to do more good than just turning a blind eye.

If it is cost effective or not is another issue and might be worth exploring. I would say this, it is hard to measure the number of people who would have applied but didn't because they couldn't pass a drug test.

Ultimately I would love to see the entire welfare system overhauled so it actually helped people do better for themselves rather than living on the bare minimum it supplies. This is what we need to be focusing on, incentives for bettering oneself, living on welfare shouldn't be a person's most desirable option nor is making it such really helping people in the long run.

SuperSecretStatus · May 2013

Wino0920:
People who just come here and start insulting are not intelligent enough for me to have a conversation with. If I were to walk into a bank and ask for a loan and they told me to jump through their hula hoop, I would. If I were to go to my parents or a family member and ask for a loan, and they told me their terms, I would agree. So if I went and asked the govt for money that I didn't have to pay back with interest, I would follow their terms as well. People that ask for help don't set the terms and tell the loaner what they will and won't do. If that is ignorant, classless, and privileged, then yes I am those things.

You don't want to even listen to reason and are being hypocritical by (poorly) attempting to insult others by saying that someone isn't intelligent because they know bs when they smell it and aren't afraid to speak up against it. Enjoy living in your little bubble. The things that some people are saying in this thread are wrong as well as classist (where the hell did you get "classless" from) and racist (both thinly veiled and blatant).

It's time for more people to open their eyes and actually see what's going on, but people rarely want to acknowledge hard truths.

CinemaGoddess · May 2013

I would rather see the tax loopholes closed that would force the rich to pay their fair share than to see yet another punishment against the poor.

jpeazybreezy · May 2013

CinemaGoddess:
Wino0920:
CinemaGoddess:

Wino0920:
If I were to walk into a bank and ask for a loan and they told me to jump through their hula hoop, I would. So if I went and asked the govt for money that I didn't have to pay back with interest, I would follow their terms as well. People that ask for help don't set the terms and tell the loaner what they will and won't do. If that is ignorant, classless, and privileged, then yes I am those things.

So you would seriously go into a bank, and if they asked for a sample of your DNA for testing you would not be "Wait, WHUT?" you would just be "Cool beans, cheek swabs FTW!"

Sure would!! Again they are helping me out, not the other way around.

Then you are ignorant, classless and privileged. My god have mercy on your soul.

Wait now, I get her point. If you want something, you will do what you need to do to get it. I just think that in this case we see drug testing in two different lights. I see it as a too much, Wino does not.

They got people who don't want to take off their shoes in the airport, give finger prints and photos for bank accounts, or get taxed more based off of their income.

Everyone has different limits of what they are willing to take. I've hear of women having to have sex with people to get ahead at their jobs, I'm not down with that, but obviously it is not a bridge too far for some. Just to give a far out example that is.

CinemaGoddess · May 2013

jpeazybreezy:
CinemaGoddess:
Wino0920:
CinemaGoddess:

Wino0920:
If I were to walk into a bank and ask for a loan and they told me to jump through their hula hoop, I would. So if I went and asked the govt for money that I didn't have to pay back with interest, I would follow their terms as well. People that ask for help don't set the terms and tell the loaner what they will and won't do. If that is ignorant, classless, and privileged, then yes I am those things.

So you would seriously go into a bank, and if they asked for a sample of your DNA for testing you would not be "Wait, WHUT?" you would just be "Cool beans, cheek swabs FTW!"

Sure would!! Again they are helping me out, not the other way around.

Then you are ignorant, classless and privileged. My god have mercy on your soul.

Wait now, I get her point. If you want something, you will do what you need to do to get it. I just think that in this case we see drug testing in two different lights. I see it as a too much, Wino does not.

They got people who don't want to take off their shoes in the airport, give finger prints and photos for bank accounts, or get taxed more based off of their income.

Everyone has different limits of what they are willing to take. I've hear of women having to have sex with people to get ahead at their jobs, I'm not down with that, but obviously it is not a bridge too far for some. Just to give a far out example that is.

I would agree with you if Wino didn't make it very apparent that she only sees this issue as very black and white. She doesn't see the people who are honestly trying to get their shiit together and here comes the government, telling them there is obviously something wrong with them and they must take this drug test in order to receive money.

It is not easy to go to the government for money. And as someone else (Geraldo, maybe?) showed, the test of this in Florida showed that only an extremely small amount of people actually had drugs in their system. The amount of money spent on this could've fed lot of people for a long time.

I agree that the system needs to be fixed, but drug testing food stamp recipients is not it.

Wino0920 · May 2013

CinemaGoddess:
jpeazybreezy:
CinemaGoddess:
Wino0920:
CinemaGoddess:

Wino0920:
If I were to walk into a bank and ask for a loan and they told me to jump through their hula hoop, I would. So if I went and asked the govt for money that I didn't have to pay back with interest, I would follow their terms as well. People that ask for help don't set the terms and tell the loaner what they will and won't do. If that is ignorant, classless, and privileged, then yes I am those things.

So you would seriously go into a bank, and if they asked for a sample of your DNA for testing you would not be "Wait, WHUT?" you would just be "Cool beans, cheek swabs FTW!" 

Sure would!! Again they are helping me out, not the other way around.

Then you are ignorant, classless and privileged.  My god have mercy on your soul. 

Wait now, I get her point.  If you want something, you will do what you need to do to get it.  I just think that in this case we see drug testing in two different lights.  I see it as a too much, Wino does not. 

They got people who don't want to take off their shoes in the airport, give finger prints and photos for bank accounts, or get taxed more based off of their income. 

Everyone has different limits of what they are willing to take.  I've hear of women having to have sex with people to get ahead at their jobs, I'm not down with that, but obviously it is not a bridge too far for some.  Just to give a far out example that is.
I would agree with you if Wino didn't make it very apparent that she only sees this issue as very black and white. She doesn't see the people who are honestly trying to get their shiit together and here comes the government, telling them there is obviously something wrong with them and they must take this drug test in order to receive money.

It is not easy to go to the government for money.  And as someone else (Geraldo, maybe?) showed, the test of this in Florida showed that only an extremely small amount of people actually had drugs in their system. The amount of money spent on this could've fed lot of people for a long time.
I agree that the system needs to be fixed, but drug testing food stamp recipients is not it.  

Lol! I only see it black and white??? I am afraid you are doing the same just on the other side.

Wino0920 · May 2013

CinemaGoddess:
Wino0920:
CinemaGoddess:
Wino0920:
People who just come here and start insulting are not intelligent enough for me to have a conversation with.

If I were to walk into a bank and ask for a loan and they told me to jump through their hula hoop, I would. If I were to go to my parents or a family member and ask for a loan, and they told me their terms, I would agree.

So if I went and asked the govt for money that I didn't have to pay back with interest, I would follow their terms as well.

People that ask for help don't set the terms and tell the loaner what they will and won't do.

If that is ignorant, classless, and privileged, then yes I am those things.
So you would seriously go into a bank, and if they asked for a sample of your DNA for testing you would not be "Wait, WHUT?" you would just be "Cool beans, cheek swabs FTW!" 

Sure would!! Again they are helping me out, not the other way around.
Then you are ignorant, classless and privileged.  My god have mercy on your soul. 

Lol!!

MrsAxilla · May 2013

There is so much stupid in this thread that it's given me a headache.

GeraldoRivera · May 2013

Wino0920:
If that is ignorant, classless, and privileged, then yes I am those things.

Yes. Yes you are.

jorkz821 · May 2013

asilwhite:
SuperSecretStatus:
The blatant ignorance and classist comments in this thread are appalling. I wonder if some of you actually believe that complete and utter nonsense that you're spewing today. I can't say that I'm surprised at all though.nbsp;There's so much wrong here I don't even know where to start.nbsp;

Seriously. I'm just so disgusted today. I also LOVE how everyone is assuming that people who need food stamps are drug addicts or are bad parents or are in gangs.

Pretty much this. What just happened here??

GeraldoRivera · May 2013

jpeazybreezy:
Food stamps. Government housing. Social Security. Student loans.

They're all broken. They all suck. They're all run by the government.

You wanna fix the problem? Privatize that ish.

The money can still come from the gov, but let a private coporations handle that it. Lets see how long it takes to "clean up the system".

And let me also add that the people you see rolling in their fancy pants and fancy cars are more than likely abusers of the system. Not too hard since, yes, it is run by the government.

Actually a lot of student loans are private.

And given what the private banking system did to, say, the housing market (subprime loans? credit default swaps?), I'm not sure privatizing is a very good idea.

sleepy33 · May 2013

jorkz821:
asilwhite:
SuperSecretStatus:
The blatant ignorance and classist comments in this thread are appalling. I wonder if some of you actually believe that complete and utter nonsense that you're spewing today. I can't say that I'm surprised at all though.nbsp;There's so much wrong here I don't even know where to start.nbsp;
Seriously. I'm just so disgusted today. I also LOVE how everyone is assuming that people who need food stamps are drug addicts or are bad parents or are in gangs.
Pretty much this. What just happened here??

GeraldoRivera · May 2013

Wino0920:
People who just come here and start insulting are not intelligent enough for me to have a conversation with. If I were to walk into a bank and ask for a loan and they told me to jump through their hula hoop, I would. If I were to go to my parents or a family member and ask for a loan, and they told me their terms, I would agree. So if I went and asked the govt for money that I didn't have to pay back with interest, I would follow their terms as well. People that ask for help don't set the terms and tell the loaner what they will and won't do. If that is ignorant, classless, and privileged, then yes I am those things.

Banks are private. Families are private. The government is not private. The government is bound by the Constitution. Private industry and families are not.

Please to be taking Civics 101 thx.

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