- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
Birth Stories
marrymemylove
member
c section = major surgery = meaningless
marrymemylove
member
I keep reading "ooooh its MAJOR surgery" the emphasis is always there.?
Do you know the definition of major as opposed to minor surgery? It is whether you need more than a local anesthetic. That's ALL. There is a WIDE range of "major surgery" and some is frankly not major at all.
Getting a toenail off can be major surgery if you elect a general anesthetic for the sound reason you don't want to be conscious while your toenail is dragged out and tons of blood emerges. But a toenail off is NOT major in any meaningful sense of the word.
I haven't had a c section. But I have had REAL major surgery more than 30 times (neurosurgery and abdominal surgery). For ANY of the abdominal surgery (including appendectomy) I could have been up caring for a baby with help in 1 day no problem. I could have been totally on my own with a new baby within a week. That's pretty much what c section aftercare aims for, even if not all nurses in hospitals live up to it.
If you think any kind of non local anesthetic is major surgery then, you haven't ever experienced truly major surgery.
It really is not that big a deal. For many women it is not even requiring cutting that much, when I had my appendectomy my surgeon told me afterwards "you'll be pleased to know your girl bits are very accessible, I had to burrow under them to find your appendix" LOL So less cutting for a c section than an appendectomy. And unless you have a ruptured appendix that doesn't make a big deal either!
?
This discussion has been closed.
Re: c section = major surgery = meaningless
EXACTLY. Yes sometimes it will be a big deal depending on why, how, condition of the mother, quality of care etc. But it isn't PER SE. In other words chanting major surgery is meaningless, people don't have a clue what the definition is.?
First time on this board but, I have had both my appendix removed at the age of 24 and a section at the age of 35 and I am here to tell you the appendix was horrid, while the section was a piece of cake. I don't know what made the appendix so much worse, but, the pain was unbelievable.
My C/S was major sugery. I was told that I was at an increased risk of dying compared to other people who had a c/s, due to some additional circumstances.
Don't assume anything. Everyone's experience is different.
I just wonder why someone would CHOOSE a c-section over a vag. if possible. I know that they can be necessary, and can save precious minutes if someone is in distress, but why would you decide to spend your maternity leave recovering from surgery? Rather than recovering faster and spending more independent time with your baby? There are greater risks for the baby as well with a C-section. I would do all I could to diminish risk to my child. I even had a blood HIV test when I know I am not HIV positive, so my son would not have to have one when he was born. There is an article here about some of the associated risks, and I do not know why anyone would actually want a c-section when they had an alternative. . . lazy or scared?
https://tinyurl.com/6ox2nw
Lazy or scared is pretty condescending. My mum had two vag births & then a C after 2 days of labor. She said her C recovery was a breeze compared to the vag births - she had significant tearing, 4th degree when she had me. Of course everyone is different - some ppl bounce back quickly even w/ bad tears, some ppl have bad C recoveries, & vice versa. I think you are being rather judgmental & presumptuous. My mum was a huge advocate of natural birth & was in tears when they told her she had to have a C w/ my sis. After she had it, she said "why didn't I just do it that way every time?"
I haven't made a decision yet, but we tend to have large babies in my family, & if DC is going to be big, I'll have one.
Well mine was considered major surgery because the epidural didn't work on me and I had to go under general anesthesia. I didn't get to see my dd's birth and neither did dh. This time, I scheduled a c/s but will try a vbac if I go into labor before my c/s date, which is a few days before my due date.
I wouldn't recommend a c/s unless there is a strong medical need for it. I was so drugged up that there was not the same kind of excitement or anticipation when I got to hold my dd for the first time. I was waking up from general anesthesia, and had the shakes so bad that I was only concerned with when they'd stop. Of course, I was lucky to have a beautiful, healthy baby girl and most people don't have to go under GA, but I'd at least try to birth the baby vaginally first if I was a first time mom.
The only people I can see assuming anything are those saying a c section is ALWAYS per se major surgery.
Yes you can have a bad recovery. You can after a bad vag birth too.
As for "all drugged up and slow recovery" - not my experience even after a 15 hour operation (which assure you WAS major in every sense!).
As for lazy or scared, well bollocks. For some people it is a perfectly rational CHOICE.?
Definition - "Major" surgery is any invasive operative procedure in which extensive resection is performed, e.g., a body cavity is entered, organs are removed, or normal anatomy is significantly altered.
A lot of times during the c/s they will remove your uterus to make it easier to sew up. Your whole body cavity is open.
Awake or not, easy recovery or not, a c/s is a pretty big freakin' deal.
Yes, I understood what you wrote, & I get that you are referring to elective c sections, & I still think your comment was judgmental, presumptuous, & downright rude. There are pro & cons to both C & vag births, & you shouldn't judge someone for choosing one over the other. I wouldn't judge you for wanting a vag birth, even though there are risks to that type of birth as well.
Firsttogo, you are really judgmental. Lazy? Not sure how wanting to give birth via 'major surgery' makes you lazy. Scared? Sure, but I am sure you were scared too when you went into labor. If I elect a c-section, I will be scared of that too and would admit it. And can you pat yourself a little more on the shoulder? Big deal that you got HIV tested, you had to have a blood test anyway many times. A little more tolerance would be nice.
firsttogo-get a life instead of worrying about others people's! lololololol!!!
Is firsttogo a regular nutter or is she a special edition?
The risk profile of vag birth and c section adds up to a very similar number in fact. THAT is why you CAN elect in many cases (well until public outrage on no clear basis).
Take a normal healthy mother with no medical need for a c section.?
A c section is slightly more to the mother because of increased blood loss and potential infection. Both very commonly easily eradicated risks.
A c section is slightly less risky to the baby because you don't risk foetal distress or injury during descent, strangling with the cord, bruising from the pelvis or other trauma. Yes you may (not always) need to suction the lungs. Big deal.
If firsttogo wants to talk about risk and parental protection of the foetus perhaps she'd like to explain why at the margin she'd rather her baby took more risk so she could take less?
And I am NOT advocating for c sections. But I think people choosing them is no big deal. If 100% of women chose them it wouldn't change the overall survival rates of infants for the worse. In fact it might improve them.
I was a particular case - for ME a c section was a major risk because I have no blood brain barrier so peritonitis (even though readily treatable) could have caused me to get meningitis. On the other hand a vag birth was also slightly more risky to my baby than they usually are because I could not push for more than an hour before my cranial pressure would get too high (and I'd end up with a c section anyway, possibly with a then distressed infant). The compromise was that I'd be allowed to push for 40 mins only, then vacuum would be used and if not successful they'd do a c section rather than wait for distress to occur. This is a decision that many on this board would find horrible. But actually it was the only rational choice in the circumstances. I conclude therefore that people like firsttogo have largely irrational fears and attitudes to c sections.
I personally would not advise a C-section if there were no medical reason for it. I had one due to high bp and my recovery time was awesome, I took very little pain meds (nothing more than advil), and had zero complications. While it went as good as it possible could have I still missed out on a vaginal birth and I was groggy from the drugs they give you to relax while they sew you up. I was so groggy the entire first day it was a blur. Also it took really messed up my ab area, I have extra skin that I fear I may never get rid of because of the amount my skin stretched with my son and the surgery. I think that was the worst part. Keep in mind, no matter how great you do there is still a 6 week recovery time and if you push yourself to much you can get very sick and wear out quickly.That is not good with a needy newborn.
So if you're healthy and can have a vaginal birth you should! Don't miss out on that beautiful experience. There are so many risks to a C-section, I wouldn't quite compare it to an appendectimy. We are talking about a precious life here, not your appendix. It sounds easy but in the long run it's just not worth it if you don't have to.?
Well, I don't think I wish to have the 'precious experience' of childbirth. I am really looking forward to holding our baby, but if I could magically skip pregnancy and childbirth, I would do it in a heartbeat. For me, the precious experience is having a child, not carrying it/ birthing it. Everybody is different, but that's how I feel. If I can avoid pain through modern medicine, I will.
Having said that, I am reconsidering the elective c-section b/c of the longer recovery time. I am an avid runner (running 60-80 miles per week) and the downtime after a c-section would be really hard on me in that aspect (not being able to run).
Blissful - why "should" you? And why do you assume a vag birth will be a blissful experience and a c section won't? I find that so arrogant about some mothers. My nurse told me I "should" wait for the pain before I got my epidural. Why exactly? So she'd be able to be in control and have power over me while I was in agony? So that she could see me suffer? There is no good reason. Having the epi before the pain starts means you get to enjoy the WHOLE birth not just the part after the pain stops.
SF - your decision but dont' assume the recovery is longer. As I said I've had major abdominal surgery and been fine in a day and that's with a general anesthetic (you'd get a spinal and not be groggy after a planned c section). On the other hand I could barely walk and definitely not bend over for a week after my vag birth. You think your bits don't hurt after you've just pushed out a baby many times the normal size of what normally goes there? The pain is just in a different place and you get better pain relief options after a c section (no one offers a vag birth mother codeine).?
2 years ago, I had to have abdominal surgery to remove a 4 pound cyst wrapped around my left ovary/fallopian tube. They ended up taking the ovary, tube and cyst out, and the recovery from surgery was very painful and long. Even though they had to pull the entire uterus out to evaluate it and perform the surgery, they didn't cut through any of my abdominal muscles, which really helped with the recovery. I was still on bedrest for 8 wks afterwards though, and I don't think I could have handled having to care for a baby on top of the recovery. I was in the hospital for 3 days after the surgery, sleeping most of the time, and when I went home I slept on and off for another 2 weeks.
I would say, compared to women I know that have had c sections AND other surgeries, c sections aren't that bad to recover from comparatively (barring any complications, of course). I think if you can get up and move around AND take care of a baby about a week after a c section, then it's nothing compared to the surgery I had. I couldn't even get out of bed to go to the bathroom on my own until the last day I was in the hospital, and that was with 2 nurses supporting me so I didn't fall on the way there.
I should note that at the time I had surgery, I was 20 yrs old and in probably the best physical shape of my life (modern dancer, dancing probably 8 hrs a day avg). I still couldn't do ANYTHING physical for the first 5 wks of bedrest after.
That's my .02.
I'm sorry but they DO NOT take out all your organs & then put them back in! THis is ridiculous! They make a small lower segment incison, your organs remain inside your boy, I know because I assist as a scrub nurse in sections. In rare circumstances if a pt. starts bleeding the uterus may be pulled up in the abdomen for massage & repair, but its not taken out...
firsttogo....you are very judgemental! Your choice to have your baby in whatever manner you did was just that, your choice. I am very enducated in the aspect of child birth as I am a labour & delivery nurse and I plan on having a BOOKED ELECTIVE SECTION. There are many risks associated with childbirth with you deliver vaginally or via a section. As a pp said for a healthy women with no other risk factors their are very slight increased risks associated with a c-section, most of these risks are to the mother. Babies do just as well if not better following a c-section then they would with a vaginally delivery, there is certainly less trauma to the baby.
I woud respect any individuals decision as to how to go about having their baby. C-sections are certainly painful, as well as are vaginal deliveries.
And for the record, I am NEITHER lazy or scared. I am a small framed women married to a large framed man, my mother & sisters all struggled thru childbirth, only to end up with either c-sections or irreversible damage, causing them to never be able to deliver vaginally again, so the rest of their deliveried will be sections anyways. I am an educated women making an informed decision.
I'm sorry but I don't believe that warning women about the complications of a c-section and recovery is being arrogant in the least bit. Just because some recover quickly (I was one of those) doesn't mean it's not major surgery and the recovery time does effect your ability to care for your baby. It is harder to lift the baby, it is much harder getting around for at least the fist couple weeks as opposed to have a vaginal birth, and there can be infection (particularly these days) to the incision. Many OB's will not tell you these things because many love doing c-sections. I mean think about it, it's MUCH MORE convenient for them, takes much less time for them, and they get paid much more for a sugery as well. So many do talk their patients into c-sections sadly.This is why the section rate is growing so much! When it comes down to it though, if you can have a vaginal it is usually a wise choice because it is usually safer for your little one and for you.
Also I highly doubt the nurse told you to wait on the epi because she wanted to see you suffer or have control over you...I'm not quite sure how that benifits her...? Epidural isn't something you should just get to get either, getting it too early can make it wear off sooner and can have possible side effects to you and your baby. Often times it makes the baby very groggy lethargic. She was probably just trying to give you some helpful advice.
I mean lets face it birthing a baby isn't completel bliss and joy at all point of labor whether having a vaginal or a c-section but it is wise to take a look at what is best for you and your baby, what is healthiest of you and your baby. These are just my opinions based on my experience and the experience of friends and family.
OMFG the ignorance! ?
Blissful - you used the word "should" like it was a moral imperative. There is no "should" about having a vaginal birth. Or going without an epidural.
There may be good or bad choices for particular individuals but there IS NO SHOULD.
Also you ARE assuming vag birth is an easier recovery, and I dispute that. In the cases we're talking about it is quite possible for a woman to have severe damage and stitching from a vag birth. A c section could EASILY be less traumatic even to her (certainly to the baby).
?You once again repeat the "major surgery" mantra. The whole point of this post is to point out that this is a meaningless statement. It CAN be major surgery. Then again so can reconstruction after a bad vag birth. That's where the truth ends.
I don't agree it is harder to lift the baby and get around. I had so much pain from my 8 stitches tear that I could not sit down or get in and out of bed comfortably for weeks. That is a part of the body which is REALLY stressed by sitting and getting in and out of bed to feed a newborn. The spot where they do a c section is much less so even if the stitching is more extensive.
?Also your reasoning seems to have more to do with resenting OBs than anything else. I have OBs in my family and trust me they do not LOVE doing c sections. They see them actually as a huge liability risk because mothers resent them (being indoctrinated by women like you) even when they saved their lives or their babies. A mother who had a bad vag birth is much less likely to sue over it than a woman who had a very smooth c section, because the perception is you have a prima facie case it is unnecessary. In terms of convenience it really isn't. It requires a LOT more work and time with the patient. The days when your argument may have been true are long gone and just a bandwagon for hostile midwives who see their business crumbling.
C sections are largely growing because higher risk pregnancies are more common. Why do IVF mums use c sections almost exclusively? Because they are much more likely to be older higher risk women, much more likely to have mulitples, and much more likely to want to take NO chances on the baby getting distressed and dying during birth which DOES actually happen. On the other hand any baby who died during a c section was so criticially ill they wouldn't have survived anyway. Aside from IVF women tend to be older nowadays (apart from the small cluster of teens). The weighted average age of first time mothers is now around 30, which means a LOT of women are in their late 30s.
Then there is the fact we diagnose pregnancy complications much more than we used to be able to. What used to be a late miscarriage or stillbirth is now likely to be a c section with a premmie baby. I call that an improvement even if you don't.
You say: "When it comes down to it though, if you can have a vaginal it is usually a wise choice because it is usually safer for your little one and for you."
This is just plain untrue. It may be safer for you (or not). It is not safer for the baby in almost all cases.?
As for the nurse - it benefits her because she has a job. If I'm not in pain she might as well not be there and over time fewer nurses will be needed. Same as midwives. With epis women are TRULY EMPOWERED and do not need nurses and midwives during their labor nearly as much. As a result of the combination of facts that nurses are generally anti-epi without evidence and that their jobs depend on it I conclude that a LOT of these nurses are just sadistic cows. Not all, but a lot.
?OK then you just tell a pack of lies about the epidural.
It does NOT wear off. It is a continuous stream of drugs flowing over your epidural space... what you call wearing off is like pilot error. Don't blame the procedure, blame the individual.?
Possible side effects? Do you scaremonger or what? The side effects of an epi:
1. you may itch around the site though it isn't actually proven that this is down to the epi at all, most likely it is the numbing agent they use beforehand (a major NY hospital recently changed its numbing agent and delivery system and now has a zero rate of this side effect as far as I know).
2. in rare cases you may get a leak causing a spinal headache. Very unpleasant but easily fixable with an injection of your own blood at the site.
That's it unless you worry about a building collapse while you're unable to run for cover or a drunk Dr or an unspotted infection prior.
For side effects that is as near to zero as you'll ever get. I'm sre you have in mind the propaganda that epis cause longer labors and c sections. That was totally disproven a few years ago by Northwestern University. Epidurals actually cause slightly shorter labors by about 15 mins. Not that I'd be running to get anywhere on time.
?"Often times it makes the baby very groggy"... BULL SHYTE. This just shows how ignorant you are. The drugs that make babies groggy are opiates, they do not get used in epidurals. They get used in demerol and other "take the edge off" options natural births are more likely to cave in to while avoiding the Evil Epi. Thus those mothers DO endanger their babies while epdirual mothers do not.?
The drugs in epidurals are not systemic like demerol, they are regional, so only traces get into the amniotic fluid (whereas systemic drugs the baby gets the full dose you get). They also are not drugs which cause you or the baby to be groggy at all. They simply do not have that effect. You could have 4x the dose of the average epi and not feel sleepy, just more numb in the legs.
?Helpful advice??? Sorry bullshyte and lies is what you are peddling Blissful.
I've had 2 c-sections and one minor outpatient surgery were I was put under general anesthesia. The c-sec was MAJOR in comparison. Yeah, I could take care of my own child after I got home. Not so great at it in the hospital other than BFing. But, taking care of another child and a baby after a c-sec, I don't think so.
I'm sure there are more major surgeries out there. I don't think anyone ever said that a c-sec was the MOST major surgery. But, it hurts likeabitch, especially if you've already labored for hours before.
I don't think that anyone should form an opinion about it until you've have one or have had to have one.
I find it interesting that you just assume that people will breastfeed. ('when you breastfeed', not 'if you breastfeed'). I decided against breastfeeding for various reasons so that won't be an issue for me.
I think you have misunderstood my intentions, I am just stating what I have researched myself. It is my personal opinion based on my research. I'm certainly not here to lecture and don't believe I'm doing so by freely expressing my opinion just as you are freely expressing your own which I do respect completely! You should know when someone disagrees with you it doesn't mean they are being ignorant, arrogant, or lecturing it's just a difference of opinion.?
I didn't tell you Merry Christmas expecting the same from you in return but I truly hope your Christmas is blessed though! Thank you for sharing your opinion with me.
?
Just a few things for me to add
First Merry (sp?) I agree with your point and almost all you say, but as a nurse a must say that what you say about epidurals is not completely true.
There CAN be RARE side effects, the most common & the ones that CAN affec the baby are easily detected & reversible BY NURSING CARE & INTERVENTION. An epidural certainly can make a nurses job easier, as you do not have to have the physical work of labour support that an individual going natural requires. I am a HUGE advocate for epi's but that is not why. I am a good nurse & support my patients in all of their decisions, as long as they are safe. I believe that an epidural allows you to enjoy your entire birth experience, as well as provides you wiht periods of rest during labour so that you can be better prepared for both pushing & the immediate post-partum period when you want to be abel to bond with your baby. HOWEVER a huge side effect is a drastic drop in blood pressure, which in turn can affect blood supply to the baby. THe nurse can easily correct this thru positioning, IV bolus or medications. Also the block can go to high causign resp. problems, again this is easily remidied by the nurse. An epidural requires continuous monitoring of both mom & babe, therefore you are incorrect in stating that it eliminates the neccisty of a nurse, or diminishes a nurses role.
Blissful-it sounds to me that you are very bitter over your own birth experience & I am very sorry for that. However I believe you are wrong in many of your statements. THe epidurals have no groggy affect ont he baby, it is not a system drug. Birth experiences are very personal and each persono should have the right to make their own decisions, and be comfortable with them. If you are going to post opinions in the form of facts, do not post misinformation. My sister had a vaginal delivery followed by a MAJOR SURGERY that required 4 weeks in the hospital on a central line trying to repair the damage caused, she now has to have c-sections, which she SHOULD have had in the first place.
Also, IMHO CLITORAL & URETHRAL lacerations will NEVER heal properly I think my abdo has a much better chance of going back to normal