Another infant circumcision death

SunnyMuffin · March 2013

I know this might cause a shiitstorm but I know most of you don't follow these blogs and may not have heard about this. Circumcision is responsible for about 100 infant deaths per year in the US.

"Brayden was circumcised Wednesday this week ? 9 days old. During the circumcision he started bleeding. Although Brayden was given transfusions, plasma and numerous of other treatments, it was impossible to stop the bleeding and two days after his circumcision, he died, 11 days of age. "

https://justasnip.wordpress.com/2013/03/09/today-a-child-died-apparantly-because-of-circumcision-is-it-selfish-to-debate-that/

https://www.intaction.org/baby-dies-from-circumcision-in-california/

kathleen02 · March 2013

Oh my God. How tragic. I can't even read that.

jennipalmer · March 2013

My son's skin seperated and he needed stiches. He did bleed quite a lot. I was happy he was circumsized in hospital and not in doctors office. However, most insurances do not cover in the hospital anymore it is in office procedure. Which does concern me having a boy this time around with different insurance

JCWhitey · March 2013

I was on the fence about it, but after learning that it's actually less traumatic to go through it as an adult (since there are fewer nerves involved and you can be fully sedated) as well as stuff like this we've decided against it. Plus I actually watched one the other day and after seeing what actually happens during it... yeah. I couldn't do that to my child! It's not pleasant to watch and it wasn't even my child I was watching it happen to!

Sascha3 · March 2013

My nephew had to be rushed to emergency for bleeding and ended up with reconstructive surgery after his circ. In Las Vegas, the hospitals won't do them anymore either...only at the pediatrician.

hollandmama · March 2013

JCWhitey:
I was on the fence about it, but after learning that it's actually less traumatic to go through it as an adult (since there are fewer nerves involved and you can be fully sedated) as well as stuff like this we've decided against it. Plus I actually watched one the other day and after seeing what actually happens during it... yeah. I couldn't do that to my child! It's not pleasant to watch and it wasn't even my child I was watching it happen to!

Good call. We won't do it either, and we're in Europe where cc is not seen as a normal procedure anyways I don't need to see the videos to imagine it's a horrible thing to do to a newborn!

fabk · March 2013

This just adds to the reasons why we won't be doing this to our son. Thanks for posting.

missyjg · March 2013

That's so sad. If this poor little guy had severe hemophelia I'm at a loss to understand why they didn't discover that earlier, like when they did heal sticks for blood and such. Either way, it's tragic and my heart goes out to this poor family.

Mrs JillB · March 2013

Oh for the love. We get it, you care about wieners. Honestly, you make me glad I'm having two boys. More to cut! All of the penises in our family are circumcised, and it's none of your business. This isn't like vaccines. This affects no one but the boy who's being circumcised and perhaps the health of his future sex partners.

You are crazy cakes.

JellyTwoPointO · March 2013

Mrs JillB:
Oh for the love. We get it, you care about wieners. Honestly, you make me glad I'm having two boys. More to cut! All of the penises in our family are circumcised, and it's none of your business. This isn't like vaccines. This affects no one but the boy who's being circumcised and perhaps the health of his future sex partners.nbsp;You are crazy cakes.nbsp;

Wow you're awfully cold hearted in light of the content of the OP. Notice you're the only one responding like that?

What a horrible time for the family of that baby. That is so incredibly sad.

Mrs JillB · March 2013

Jellybean902:
Mrs JillB:
Oh for the love. We get it, you care about wieners. Honestly, you make me glad I'm having two boys. More to cut! All of the penises in our family are circumcised, and it's none of your business. This isn't like vaccines. This affects no one but the boy who's being circumcised and perhaps the health of his future sex partners.nbsp;You are crazy cakes.nbsp;
Wow you're awfully cold hearted in light of the content of the OP. Notice you're the only one responding like that? What a horrible time for the family of that baby. That is so incredibly sad.

That child had extreme circumstances that the op glossed over.

sparkymcgeee · March 2013

Mrs JillB:
Jellybean902:
Mrs JillB:
Oh for the love. We get it, you care about wieners. Honestly, you make me glad I'm having two boys. More to cut! All of the penises in our family are circumcised, and it's none of your business. This isn't like vaccines. This affects no one but the boy who's being circumcised and perhaps the health of his future sex partners.nbsp;You are crazy cakes.nbsp;
Wow you're awfully cold hearted in light of the content of the OP. Notice you're the only one responding like that? What a horrible time for the family of that baby. That is so incredibly sad.
That child had extreme circumstances that the op glossed over.

Yes

It's extremely sad but the agenda is getting old. It's no one else's business what I choose to do. I still don't know what I will do but I'm sick of the agenda and the anti-circ posts.

Carrie3102 · March 2013

meimsx:
Mrs JillB:
Jellybean902:
Mrs JillB:
Oh for the love. We get it, you care about wieners. Honestly, you make me glad I'm having two boys. More to cut! All of the penises in our family are circumcised, and it's none of your business. This isn't like vaccines. This affects no one but the boy who's being circumcised and perhaps the health of his future sex partners.nbsp;You are crazy cakes.nbsp;
Wow you're awfully cold hearted in light of the content of the OP. Notice you're the only one responding like that? What a horrible time for the family of that baby. That is so incredibly sad.
That child had extreme circumstances that the op glossed over.

It's extremely sad but the agenda is getting old. It's no one else's business what I choose to do. I still don't know what I will do but I'm sick of the agenda and the anti-circ posts.

agreed. My son's penis is no ones business. What we choose to do, we are having him circ'd by the way, is no one's business and the agenda is gertting old.

meltoine · March 2013

Yes, his circumstances are rare, but that doesn't make it less tragic.

With all the one-in-million things they test and treat for during pregnancy, labor, and delivery, you'd think they'd test for bleeding disorders before circumcizing. There are several things more rare that they treat every mom and/or baby for in the days before and aftere delivery.

MRads · March 2013

Mrs JillB:

Jellybean902:
Mrs JillB:
Oh for the love. We get it, you care about wieners. Honestly, you make me glad I'm having two boys. More to cut! All of the penises in our family are circumcised, and it's none of your business. This isn't like vaccines. This affects no one but the boy who's being circumcised and perhaps the health of his future sex partners.nbsp;You are crazy cakes.nbsp;
Wow you're awfully cold hearted in light of the content of the OP. Notice you're the only one responding like that? What a horrible time for the family of that baby. That is so incredibly sad.

That child had extreme circumstances that the op glossed over.

It would be extremely cold hearted if the OP was the one who lost a child. It is a really sad story, and my heart goes out to that family, but the family probably won't be seeing this post. Most agendas use a tragic story of one kind or another.

Also, there are a lot of health benefits to getting circumcized. It is a personal decision, just like EBF, EFF, EP, etc with benefits and disadvantages on both sides.

JellyTwoPointO · March 2013

etoille:
meimsx:
Mrs JillB:
Jellybean902:
Mrs JillB:
Oh for the love. We get it, you care about wieners. Honestly, you make me glad I'm having two boys. More to cut! All of the penises in our family are circumcised, and it's none of your business. This isn't like vaccines. This affects no one but the boy who's being circumcised and perhaps the health of his future sex partners.nbsp;You are crazy cakes.nbsp;
Wow you're awfully cold hearted in light of the content of the OP. Notice you're the only one responding like that? What a horrible time for the family of that baby. That is so incredibly sad.
That child had extreme circumstances that the op glossed over.
It's extremely sad but the agenda is getting old. It's no one else's business what I choose to do. I still don't know what I will do but I'm sick of the agenda and the anti-circ posts.
Don't worry JillB. Jelly hasn't let things like facts get in her way before, she's not about to start right now.
I mean, who does things like checking for underlying medical conditions? Personally I think we should get rid of all sidewalks and asphalts. Children with extreme bleeding conditions could fall, scrape their knees and bleed out.
While we're at it, five guys can only be 200 ft from the nearest free standing structure. Kids with peanut allergies might catch a whiff and go into shock. Hell, actually they should all just be banned. No more peanuts at baseball games either. Actually we should just start lawsuits against anyone growing peanuts anymore.
And finally, we should DEFINITELY get rid of all midwives and home births. Think of all those mothers who lost their children at home births where proper medical care wasn't readily and immediately available for high risk pregnancies.
I'm super glad she's white knighting someone who is making a post advocating against doing a procedure that impacts no one else's child but their own when jelly's own stances put more people at risk outside of her own family though. That alone was LOL worthy on this drab monday. Or she was (as usual) thinking we were alllllllllllll too stupid here to distinguish between the person IN THE STORY's tragedy versus the OP blatantly shoveling her agenda. (That will likely be jelly's response - that's pretty much her standard operating procedure).
/triple eye roll
What happened is nothing short of a complete tragedy, and I would be asking questions of the hospital as to why the underlying medical condition wasnt discovered prior to this procedure which would have placed the child at risk for SEVERAL things, not just circumcision.

You're just too cute. You try so hard. Every time. It's adorable, really, that you pay this much attention to me.

sparkymcgeee · March 2013

Slow clap my bestie Etoille. And now I want some delicious peanuts and some Five Guys. I already told dh that the fries will be required as my first PP meal. Mmmm Five Guys fries.

sparkymcgeee · March 2013

Oh Jelly please don't mistake her disdain and annoyance with you as actually caring about what you say or 'trying'. We just don't like you.

JellyTwoPointO · March 2013

etoille:
meimsx:
Oh Jelly please don't mistake her disdain and annoyance with you as actually caring about what you say or 'trying'. We just don't like you.
Maybe she can start throwing her pregnancy in loss and TTC mom/women's faces again. Remind us all of her oh so endearing personality.
Though it does tie right in with the whole "I'ma get mine, to hell with society" freeriding philosophy she has cloaked herself in.

Like I said, you're adorable. You've had a lot of back and forth arguments with people on this website about vaccinations, but do you even realize that you've never successfully engaged in one with me? I dare say, I think that drives you crazy because you're just itching to do it which is why you try to bait me with your subtle jabs EVERY SINGLE opportunity you get -- or create, for that matter -- because a lot of the time, it's not even relevant to the conversation.

You actually have no idea what my full stance is on vaccinations, what I intend on doing with myself or my child, or anything like that. None of it. Your months of bullying are going off of a one sentence comment that I made and also that I personally think anyone's stance on the issue -- be it pro or against -- should be respected. That's all you've ever gotten and it's just so cute that you're putting in so much energy to try to get at me all of the time. When really, I could care less, because anyone who makes a sport out of repeatedly harassing someone else isn't worth respecting or listening to.

CarlaAndJames · March 2013

Jellybean902:

Like I said, you're adorable. You've had a lot of back and forth arguments with people on this website about vaccinations, but do you even realize that you've never successfully engaged in one with me? I dare say, I think that drives you crazy because you're just itching to do it which is why you try to bait me with your subtle jabs EVERY SINGLE opportunity you get -- or create, for that matter -- because a lot of the time, it's not even relevant to the conversation.

You actually have no idea what my full stance is on vaccinations, what I intend on doing with myself or my child, or anything like that. None of it. Your months of bullying are going off of a one sentence comment that I made and also that I personally think anyone's stance on the issue -- be it pro or against -- should be respected. That's all you've ever gotten and it's just so cute that you're putting in so much energy to try to get at me all of the time. When really, I could care less, because anyone who makes a sport out of repeatedly harassing someone else isn't worth respecting or listening to.

This isn't from this board, but I know you've said it here too. This one took me about 10 seconds to pull up, but I could keep looking?:

https://m.thebump.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/69748951.aspx

Jellybean902

|

Total Posts ,826

|

11/03/12

raises hand

Ready?

We won't be vaccinating and don't get them ourselves.

sparkymcgeee · March 2013

The vax debate that would fall on stupid and deaf ears is just the tip of the iceberg. It's your overall entitled attitude. The whole world owes you. Everyone is responsible but you. Hey I should get welfare but I'll pay for a doula. I get a free crib because I'm on welfare but what should I do about the squirrels living in my house. My husband is an ahole and doesn't help me and is worried about money but I'm going to spend money on unnecessary stuff. Oh and then complain because I didn't get my free thing that I wasn't entitled to anyway since it was a GIFT.
You reek of tacky.

JellyTwoPointO · March 2013

CarlaAndJames:
Jellybean902:

Like I said, you're adorable. You've had a lot of back and forth arguments with people on this website about vaccinations, but do you even realize that you've never successfully engaged in one with me? I dare say, I think that drives you crazy because you're just itching to do it which is why you try to bait me with your subtle jabs EVERY SINGLE opportunity you get -- or create, for that matter -- because a lot of the time, it's not even relevant to the conversation.

You actually have no idea what my full stance is on vaccinations, what I intend on doing with myself or my child, or anything like that. None of it. Your months of bullying are going off of a one sentence comment that I made and also that I personally think anyone's stance on the issue -- be it pro or against -- should be respected. That's all you've ever gotten and it's just so cute that you're putting in so much energy to try to get at me all of the time. When really, I could care less, because anyone who makes a sport out of repeatedly harassing someone else isn't worth respecting or listening to.

This isn't from this board, but I know you've said it here too. This one took me about 10 seconds to pull up, but I could keep looking?:

https://m.thebump.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/69748951.aspx

Jellybean902

|

Total Posts ,826

|

11/03/12

raises hand

Ready?

We won't be vaccinating and don't get them ourselves.

Yep. I don't get vaccinated because I get very ill every time I do. My last flu shot and tetanus shot was horrifying. I'm still weighing the options of certain vaccinations but overall, I don't think I'll be doing it because I don't want to risk Judah going through what I went through, especially while he's an infant.

On a different, but semi-related note, that's also why we're cloth diapering from day one at the hospital. Both DH and I, but especially DH, has extremely sensitive skin where we have to use special detergents and personal care products or we break out badly. I don't want to risk Judah having my problems with vaccinations or our skin issues or anything, especially while he's so tiny. It just scares me to death and I don't think anyone can blame me for being afraid.

JellyTwoPointO · March 2013

meimsx:
The vax debate that would fall on stupid and deaf ears is just the tip of the iceberg. It's your overall entitled attitude. The whole world owes you. Everyone is responsible but you. Hey I should get welfare but I'll pay for a doula. I get a free crib because I'm on welfare but what should I do about the squirrels living in my house. My husband is an ahole and doesn't help me and is worried about money but I'm going to spend money on unnecessary stuff. Oh and then complain because I didn't get my free thing that I wasn't entitled to anyway since it was a GIFT. You reek of tacky.

And I think you're a classist snob who loves to make judgments about other people.

Yes, I'm on WIC and I'm on a monthly payment plan for a doula that does NOT charge a thousand dollars, like you go around assuming.

I'm not getting a free crib for "being on welfare." I am enrolled in a parenting class that has NO INCOME LIMIT OR REQUIREMENTS, like you're so readily judging and assuming, and for completing the class, you get a crib and mattress.

The squirrels in the attic were taken care of two weeks ago with traps, thankyouverymuch. I'm sorry I didn't update you on my house situation, I didn't know that was a requirement from Your Highness, the Judge of Worthiness.

My husband and I have gone through rough patches, to be sure, but as you'll notice, I am by far not alone in the number of women here who have vented about similar problems, so why just cling on to me and what I wrote when I am by no means alone?

Also, what unnecessary things are we buying and who are you to make that judgment call? Are you my personal financial adviser and the authority on what people should and shouldn't do? Have you looked into my bank account and personal affairs? What makes you think you're in a position to go around judging other people's financial situation?

The only high and mighty person around here is you.

Stina2012 · March 2013

And big slow clap to my LB Mrs.JillB. Thank you for saying what I really wanted to say this morning.

SunnyMuffin, take your god damned crusade elsewhere. Seriously STFU with your misinformation.

Erinm278 · March 2013

While this story is tragic and I feel terrible for this family, I will still be circumsizing if we have a boy.

I agree with many of the PP that this is a personal choice that every family has to make.

ElleStamenov · March 2013

Both hubby and I are European so the thought of circumcision wouldn't even cross our minds, not that we are expecting a boy. Each to their own. I once dated an American and he informed me most Americans get circumcised, I was very shocked as I had always assumed that uk and USA are practically the same culture. Although I guess you have far more diversities here. It's so sad this happened to their boy. I once read in a magazine about this boy who had a circumcision and it went wrong and his whole penis was gone. His parents then decided it was best to give him a sex change op as a child, he spent all his childhood thinking he was a girl, only to find out as a teen that he was in fact a boy! He commited suicide! That was sad too.

sparkymcgeee · March 2013

You take advantage of he system jelly. I had to use the system and then I shockingly got out of it when I was able. I don't make a ton of money so I don't know why you think I do but whatever maybe I'm just better with my money.
Why did it take you over four months to get rid of the disease ridden rodents in your house? If it was as simple as traps then what took so long? Had to by those CDs and pay that doula I guess. Forget bringing your child into a sanitary home.

JellyTwoPointO · March 2013

etoille:
Jellybean902:
meimsx:
The vax debate that would fall on stupid and deaf ears is just the tip of the iceberg. It's your overall entitled attitude. The whole world owes you. Everyone is responsible but you. Hey I should get welfare but I'll pay for a doula. I get a free crib because I'm on welfare but what should I do about the squirrels living in my house. My husband is an ahole and doesn't help me and is worried about money but I'm going to spend money on unnecessary stuff. Oh and then complain because I didn't get my free thing that I wasn't entitled to anyway since it was a GIFT. You reek of tacky.
And I think you're a classist snob who loves to make judgments about other people.

Yes, I'm on WIC and I'm on a monthly payment plan for a doula that does NOT charge a thousand dollars, like you go around assuming.

I'm not getting a free crib for "being on welfare." I am enrolled in a parenting class that has NO INCOME LIMIT OR REQUIREMENTS, like you're so readily judging and assuming, and for completing the class, you get a crib and mattress.

The squirrels in the attic were taken care of two weeks ago with traps, thankyouverymuch. I'm sorry I didn't update you on my house situation, I didn't know that was a requirement from Your Highness, the Judge of Worthiness.

My husband and I have gone through rough patches, to be sure, but as you'll notice, I am by far not alone in the number of women here who have vented about similar problems, so why just cling on to me and what I wrote when I am by no means alone?

Also, what unnecessary things are we buying and who are you to make that judgment call? Are you my personal financial adviser and the authority on what people should and shouldn't do? Have you looked into my bank account and personal affairs? What makes you think you're in a position to go around judging other people's financial situation?

The only high and mighty person around here is you.
You complain about money here CONSTANTLY. No one said sh!t about your doula costing a thousand dollars. The point is that stop b!tching about money when you're spending it on things that are completely unnecessary. E.g. your child will be JUST FINE without placenta encapsulation.
Also - 100% do not believe you about your parenting class. Esp since you just got caught in yet another lie (do I even need to bring up the fact you were too dumb to successfully reboot yourself at TB under a new account) earlier on this page. Would LOVE to see the website of the parenting class you're taking. Your word just isn't good enough.
Also SUPER glad to see that 4 months later you got your rodent infestation fixed. I mean, your kid might "get sick like you do" (LOL) from the flu shot (again, LOL)but rabies and a whole host of other things...meh he can be exposed to that for a few months. No biggie I guess. Good to know your whole "my immune system is uber sensitive" bs is about as internally consistent as the other BS you expect people here to buy.

The website of the non-profit organization, not government related, no welfare association whatsoever, where I take my parenting class:

https://www.womenscarecenter.org/

Miemsx has said at least TWICE on TB that I'm ridiculous "for spending a thousand dollars on a doula." She thought that's how much I was spending because that's how much they cost in her area. But not mine. Sorry, honey, I'm not even paying half that much.

Would you like copies of my medical records and doctors notes, too, sweetheart?

Erinm278 · March 2013

maryannespier:
I will forever mark this day as "the day the bump got really real."

Yes

solsburyhill · March 2013

It's very unfortunate that this little boy died. But we can't live our lives not doing things because a few people have died from it. My DS was circumsized at 2 days. He was gone 15 minutes and wasn't even crying when he came back to the room. It was a total non event. If we were having another boy I'd do it again without thinking twice. Meanwhile ... I can wait till the "another cosleeping death" stuff starts after the babies are here.

JellyTwoPointO · March 2013

meimsx:
You take advantage of he system jelly. I had to use the system and then I shockingly got out of it when I was able. I don't make a ton of money so I don't know why you think I do but whatever maybe I'm just better with my money. Why did it take you over four months to get rid of the disease ridden rodents in your house? If it was as simple as traps then what took so long? Had to by those CDs and pay that doula I guess. Forget bringing your child into a sanitary home.

My child isn't here yet, genius, and hopefully won't be for another four months. And I like how you're judging me about money and using cloth diapers and a doula as your ammunition when no one can dispute that cloth diapers are approx. a thousand or more dollars cheaper than using disposables. Or do you think I should just use "elimination communication" and not diaper my baby at all? Not to mention that since I'm on private insurance with a deductible (HEY! NOT WELFARE! What do ya know?!) and doulas are proven to reduce the risk of interventions (which cost extra money), that you would judge me for choosing to make the personal decision of using a service which will increase the odds of me not only having a lower hospital bill but increase the odds that I'll have a safer, easier birth. But you know, since you're just here to make judgments calls on what is necessary or not necessary, maybe I should just default all my personal decisions to you.

ETA: Oh, and Etoille, placenta encapsulation is for the purpose of faster post partum healing, increased milk supply, and hormone restoration to reduce the risks of PPD. Benefits that, to me, are worth the $100 I am going to be spending. But perhaps I should just default to you as well on whether or not something is worth the money or "unnecessary," because apparently you and your bestie are the final authority on what income restricted people should be doing with their money.

laurelkirsten · March 2013

My son was circumcized when he was born 2 years ago. It was done in the hospital in Santa Barbara,Ca. My pediatrician did a great job and said he didn't even cry! (Though I did not witness the procedure, too tired from having baby boy!)

I allowed my husband to choose whether to circumcise or not. Since he will be the one who has to explain to my son how to use the thing!

If your baby has any medical conditions when born I would hope they would delay the procedure to make sure no additional stress is on baby.

sparkymcgeee · March 2013

Do whatever you want Jelly just stop complaining about money. I'm so over you. You notice how some people never respond to your posts? It's because we ignore your existence and think you're an entitled brat.

JellyTwoPointO · March 2013

meimsx:
Do whatever you want Jelly just stop complaining about money. I'm so over you. You notice how some people never respond to your posts? It's because we ignore your existence and think you're an entitled brat.

Please excuse me while I go cry into my cupcake because you don't approve of me or my financial management.

MRads · March 2013

maryannespier:
I will forever mark this day as "the day the bump got really real."

Its like "Real World" without the alcohol.

valstulas · March 2013

Looks like it's almost time for the bat signal to go out to the June lurkers and all the trolls. Trolls love some JB drama!

SunnyMuffin · March 2013

maryannespier:
Can we just be really clear about something? This baby did not die because he was circumcised. This baby died because he had an underlying blood disorder. Tragic, but the OP is making an egregious leap. And as someone who has known a few adults who had to be circumcised for various reasons, I will absolutely be doing it while my baby is a baby.

If a child with a bleeding disorder had been stabbed, would the cause of death be clear then? the hemophilia, or the stabbing?

sparkymcgeee · March 2013

Hmm still waiting to hear why it took over 4 no.yhs to get rid of the rodents taking up residence.

JellyTwoPointO · March 2013

valstulas:
Looks like it's almost time for the bat signal to go out to the June lurkers and all the trolls. Trolls love some JB drama!

I added some emphasis for you.

JellyTwoPointO · March 2013

meimsx:
Hmm still waiting to hear why it took over 4 no.yhs to get rid of the rodents taking up residence.

Still waiting for your comeback on how I'm choosing to cloth diaper and use a doula (that doesn't cost a thousand dollars) in hopes of SAVING money long term instead of spending it and how I proved that I'm NOT getting a crib and mattress from welfare but from a non-profit parenting class with no income requirements. Hmmmm....

valstulas · March 2013

SunnyMuffin:
maryannespier:
Can we just be really clear about something? This baby did not die because he was circumcised. This baby died because he had an underlying blood disorder. Tragic, but the OP is making an egregious leap.
And as someone who has known a few adults who had to be circumcised for various reasons, I will absolutely be doing it while my baby is a baby.
If a child with a bleeding disorder had been stabbed, would the cause of death be clear then? the hemophilia, or the stabbing?
 

Is this supposed to be a rhetorical question?

I suppose that would depend on whether or not the stabbing inflicted injuries from which the healthy person would be anticipated to die. If it were a superficial stab wound, and that individual died, cause of death would be hemophilia.

So, if the hemophiliac was an agoraphobic at the time of the stabbing, would cause of death be clotting disorder, injury, or mental illness resulting in severe isolationism?

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