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Natural Birth
beany02
member
keeping my mouth shut but.....
beany02
member
my stepbrother's wife is 6 days past her due date and is being induced today simply because she is past her due date. its her first baby so totally normally to be "overdue." she just posted on her facebook page that "baby boy is coming today whether he wants to or not!" argh. she had an ultrasound a few days ago and everything looks fine, good amount of fluid, etc. i REALLY want to post something snarky, like why would you want him to come before he's ready?! but i wont because really its none of my business, but it just makes me sad that women dont question why induction is the norm these days. i wish OB's didnt follow due dates so strictly, they are just estimates and shouldnt dictate medical decisions, EVIDENCE of a possible problem should dictate decisions. i will post an update on how the induction goes once little man is here. hopefully it goes smoothly and doesnt end up in a csection.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: keeping my mouth shut but.....
It would be nice if doctors follow ACOG recommendations to let a healthy pregnancy progress to at least 41 weeks. Or if they realized that the average FTM goes into labour 10 days "late". It's a shame that even naturally going into labour is so rare doctors can't believe in it.
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Interesting timing as this was just on 3rd Trimester and I think PP just mentioned it;
https://community.thebump.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/72191623.aspx
My OB says basically the same thing - they won't even talk induction until 41 weeks, which makes me happy because I want to avoid if at all possible.
Man I'm with you. It's hard to keep your mouth shut in those instances.
I bet: she gets induced, gets pumped with pitocin, doesn't progress on her own, and gets a c-section. This is EXACTLY what just happened to my friend. Her baby was measuring "big" so the OB recommended an induction that turned into a c-section. Lo and behold he was born under 8 lbs. sigh.
http://balletandbabies.blogspot.com
In all seriousness, it's comments like this that piss me off beyond belief and give natural birth such a bad rap. It comes off as so judgmental. I will never understand why someone cares SO much over how another woman delivers her child.
I know my opinion is probably very unpopular on a natural birth board, but this comes from someone who actually is interested in a natural birth while still being induced. Too bad I keep thinking about how judgy people are probably being when I tell them I'm being induced. I shouldn't have to explain or defend anything related to my birthing experience and that should be the same for all women.
All women should also be able to trust that their care provider is following the most up-to-date, study-proven medical knowledge and advice.
Until then, asking questions is a GOOD thing. An induction raises your risk of c-section ~67%.
44% of births before 41 weeks are induced. That seems a bit high to me. Oh, and to professionals that review such data.
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Agreed. You aren't alone on this board. I've been technically induced with both prior pregnancies because once I hit 5 or 6 cms, I decided to be admitted to the hospital and let the OB break my water, even without contractions. Once was because I was GBS positive and worried about getting abx, the other was not. Both times were in my fortieth week, so before my due date.
I agree. I think it's comments like this that make women who have epidurals or c-sections feel guilty or ashamed about their birth experience. I don't feel better than someone else because I had a "natural" birth, I am just proud of myself, period. I was supposed to be induced, and I would have felt terrible if someone made me feel badly because I had already struggled with the decision myself and ultimately DH and I made the choice that felt the safest and best for us. That's not fair.
Unless someone is being absolutely unsafe or stupid, I think we should give women the benefit of the doubt that given the resources they have (including the recommendations of a medical provider they trust), they are making the best decision for their child.
No one is trying to make anyone feel bad.
If we all just sit tight, shut up, and question nothing, then even more than 44% of births will be induced. This practise is hurting women and babies. It worsens birth outcomes.
Questioning why inductions are so routine and over used is not an accusation against any mother.
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I'm so over these posts. People make different choices about childbirth. That is life.
And seriously, if the woman's doctor is providing adequate information about the pros and cons of induction, and she gives informed consent to be induced at 41 weeks, big deal. What is so wrong with that?
I'm usually one of the first to speak up when someone on this board is judging another woman's birth choices. That was my first reaction here too. After all, all things considered, this isn't a particularly egregious example of our medical system gone awry.
That said, there are public health implications to consider. How many csections would we prevent if doctors stop performing elective inductions between 40 and 41 weeks? How much would we save in healthcare costs? And what about outcomes? Would we see a difference in perinatal mortality or maternal complications?
I'm not in favor of singling out other women and saying they should have done XYZ. But we're still not practicing evidence based obstetrics in this country, and it's worth asking why and at what cost.
Oh, I didn't know she was here.
This is exactly like every conversation I've given up on having about breastfeeding because if I at any point say that I enjoy it, think it's best for my kid, or that we should encourage milksharing I'm shaming formula feeders.
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Nechie, I agree. But I think when we look at women who make different birth choices and want to make snarky comments to them, we need to check ourselves and look inward. Are we lashing out at people who follow the medical model of birth because we feel like our own birth choices are being judged?
It's all well and good to talk about public health, but it's another thing to point fingers at individual moms and judge their choices. Especially for something like getting induced at 41 weeks, which let's be honest, is not really that scandalous or hard to understand. There are even studies that support lower complication rates when inducing at 41 vs. waiting. And while it is by a small amount, we also know that the stillbirth rate increases every week after 35 or 36 weeks. So would banning elective inductions at 41 weeks improve outcomes across the board? That is not so easy to determine. It's possible we would reduce c/s and maternal morbidity, yet see an increase in fetal mortality.
I think we also need to keep in mind the difference between public health and individual choices. It's worthwhile to ask questions like "how many c/s would we prevent if we stopped elective inductions at 40 and 41 weeks?" But individual mothers aren't and shouldn't feel compelled to give up their own preferences in the interest of national c/s rates. If a mother knows the c/s risks of induction and chooses one anyway, that is fine. NBers of all people should be championing the right of a pregnant mother to make her own choices.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2342739
This study by Harvard School of Public Health says the average length of gestation in an uncomplicated pregnancy is 41 weeks and one day. 40 weeks is a myth.
What struck me as particularly odd about the OP is that an "early" elective induction is actually defined as prior to 39 weeks, and in those cases I think you can make a more compelling public health and health economics argument. In fact, hospitals themselves are pushing back against early elective inductions. There was actually a Leapfrog Group report that just came out yesterday that found a 7 percentage point increase in the number of hospitals with an early elective delivery rate of less than 5 percent. And I think that's good news!
I want to be clear that I am 100 percent against mom shaming and birth shaming. And I agree with you that there is so much gray area in childbirth. But I'll be interested to see how the pushback against ACTUAL early elective deliveries changes our outcomes ... it also wouldn't shock me if the needle moves not that much.
I am on the fence about inductions. I personally do not think women should induce because they are tired of being pregnant. I do think inductions are great if you are past 41 weeks or it is medically necessary. The big problem I have with inductions is that doctors fail to educate women on what can happen in an induction. I have had this situation described above happen to a couple of friends. One of them even commented afterwards that her OB made it seem so easy, you get induced and have a baby. However, the OB failed to mention that you may not progress, LO may not descend, the pitocin may distress LO etc. I wish more doctors would educate women on induction so that they can make an informed choice about what is right for their bodies.
As a newly decided, med-free birth mom, I have to say I really appreciated this discussion. When I read the initial post & a couple responses after I immediately felt like a terrible Mom. I had pitocin with my 2nd b/c my water broke & labor wasn't progressing. I'll admit I was ill informed, but I trusted the staff taking care of me.
I am glad I continued reading because I appreciate what many of you said in support of Mothers who are earnestly trying to make the right choices regarding their children, whether or not it's a choice you would agree with. I think sometimes being passionate about something can translate easily into becoming judgy of others with differing beliefs. It's a good reminder that, at least for me personally, my goal should be to help educate about options, not "convert."
DD #2 2 years old (08/17/11)
DD #3 born 08/29/13
Different women have different values when it comes to giving birth. I agree that doctors should provide adequate information regarding the risks vs. benefits of any intervention, including inductions. But ultimately some women just aren't going to be all that bothered if an induction fails and they need a C-section. My two sisters-in-law fall into this category.
I had a medically necessary induction due to chronic hypertension, but if the chronic hypertension had not been a factor I would have requested an induction at 40w. Why? Because I was deathly afraid of stillbirth and my mom and her sister both lost their first babies to stillbirth. Despite knowing logically that no competent physician would recommend continuing a pregnancy to 43w as had happened to them, I still had intense anxiety over something silently going wrong before I went into labor naturally. So I weighed that against the risk of a C-section if the induction failed, and knew that the latter was far more acceptable to me. I share this information online and discussed it with my doctor, but almost never discussed it with friends or family. No one is obligated to share with you every detail of her medical decision making.
FWIW, my induction with a Bishop score of 4 (per the nurse who admitted me) complete with Cytotec, pitocin, and an epidural, resulted in a relatively quick vaginal delivery (10.5 hours from first drip of pitocin to delivery, after less than 50 minutes of pushing). Not every induction goes as well as mine, but since all too often you only see the doom and gloom stories I feel compelled to share mine as a counterpoint.
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I agree with iris and lkm. So many people on this board complain they are judged for their choices in childbirth, then turn around and judge others. She and her medical professional made a decision based on all the medical information from her pregnancy (and the OP may not even be privy to all of that), and made a decision that she felt was in her best interest. Let her be.
Just wanted to say that I don't think there was anything wrong with your post. I took it as you venting a little here to avoid saying something to her. You recognize it's not your business and wish her well.
I disagree with previous posters who seem to think that these decisions are always informed (I think that's what you were ultimately venting against, though it's probably true that you don't know the entire discussion she had with her doctor). For her, and for all women generally, I hope her care providers shared the risks and discussed possible outcomes from everything going smoothly to failure to progress/c-section, and that she was able to make an informed choice that she will ultimately be happy with.
DS, May 2011
I think its a good thing that she posted it here rather than cause all kinds of drama with her friend. If I was her friend I would rather find out that people thought it was careless to be induced unnecessarily from here than to be biiiiitched at. I definitely am one who strongly advocates normal birth and I dont believe in just letting it be its no big deal because I think its just causing more of a problem really. This is also another human being being effected a helpless one who just has to go along with whatever mom does so heck ya ill advocate his or her best interest. But i would never say something rude to someone for their decisions or belittle them. I just provide positive information about alternative ones. I think it is really good that she didnt react and took an alternate route as to not hurt her friend.
Well jeez sounds like i have an unpopular opinion! I just want to clarify that i would never question her birth decisions to her face or say something snarky directly to her...i am just venting on here and the judgemental tone i am using is more directed at the doctors than at her. Her doc scheduled her induction when she was only 1 day overdue, so its not like she got to 6 days overdue and a problem developed and her doc talked with her and decided it was necessary. Induction is so "normal" these days that most women dont question it...that was the point of my post. Her doc told her she was going to be induced and she said ok because it didnt occur to her that there was any other option...this has happened with multiple friends of mine. They just go along with it without questioning it because they assume their doc is making the right decision. They hand over control of their own birth to someone else and let them make the decisions. This is the mentality of birth in this country and it makes me sad. I do believe that a woman has a right to have whatever birth she wants, whether it includes an epidural, induction, etc.
When i had my daughter i was 2 days overdue, went into labor on my own, and had a natural birth. On my due date i had an OB appointment and my doc said he would schedule my induction for 41 weeks. He said is nonchalantly like it was no big deal. Didnt discuss with me first, didnt go through risks, didnt explain why it was necessary. I had to pry him for information and ask questions to understand why he wanted to schedule it for 41 weeks. This is exactly the problem!!! most doctors dont think its a big deal to be induced and they expect you to think its NBD too. When you start asking questions you are made to feel silly for questioning the "expert." I am not saying ALL docs are like this, but mine was and so were my friend's doctors. This is how their conversations went:
Doc: "You will be induced on X date"
Friend: "Ok"
Thats it. I see a major problem with that!!!!!!!!!! And yes, i do get judgy when i see another case of a woman not questioning decisions made about HER body and HER baby. The system will not improve if everyone is so afraid to offend, step on toes, and stand up for what they believe in.
I'm sorry to hear that
Hopefully mom and baby are recovering well.
Well, if that's an unpopular opinion, I'm right there in the unpopular boat with you.
I do think that how women choose to birth should be discussed. It is a public health issue. Not only in an economical sense but also in the long-term implications of interventions in the birthing process. How are the choices we make in our births going to affect us as a species as time goes on?
There are times when intervention is medically necessary but I would wager that that number is much much smaller that the amount of interventions being performed.
We know that induction raises the rates of complications and birth trauma so why should it not be a last resort?
It seems clear to me that, unless there is medical necessity (i.e. danger to the mom or baby) that the little one should get to come out when they (and the mother's body) are ripe.
I don't think we can cast the health of babies (and mothers) aside in the name of "not being judgey" or "not making people feel bad".
The more birth interventions that happen, the more they are going to become the norm and the fewer choices future mothers (or daughters) are going to have in a system that is not supportive of natural, unmedicated birth. If things keep going the way they are, young OBs are going to have a hard time believing that natural labor is possible because all they have seen is pitocin. How likely are these doctors going to spport or daughters and gransdaughters when their labor stalls temporariliy as they arrive at the hospital and are getting acclimated to the energy.
I know that when I arrived at the birth center my labor stalled for a while as I got comfortable with my midwife and new surroundings. Once I knew I was safe, labor started again. If I'd been in an unsupportive hospital there is a good chance the doc would've called for pitocin or scared me into thinking something was wrong.
Our choices affect more than just us and our families. We are all connected.
Totally agree with these points. Whenever someone on this board passes judgement everyone jumps on them. We are so afraid of critizing other women's choices but there needs to be discussions about this! Facts back up my judgements on induction. I dont expect another mom to agree with all my decisions either....but its not going to stop me from expressing my feelings on this.
I'm sorry to hear that...poor baby. I hope he can get into her arms swiftly!
So which is it? You trust women to make their own choices about labor and birth, as long as it's the ones you agree with?
As has been said many, MANY times on this board, not all women have the resources to research labor and birth, know that they have options with labor and birth, are told the full amount of info about best practices, or sometimes (and this is a big one) don't care to research labor and birth. Sometimes women are told their babies will die if they don't do x, y, or z during birth. But it is safe to assume that 99.9% of pregnant women are making the best decisions they can with the information they have at that point in time.
It is jerky and judgemental to sit around and talk about how your SIL's baby is in the NICU purely because she decided to induce. I am willing to bet money that her doctor probably didn't go through the true risks with her, which means it's....the provider's and system's fault, NOT hers. Please stop blaming women, it makes you look like a douchnozzle.
Links to read and inform yourself:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3210636/
A paper that talks about the fact that women and their providers are both uninformed when it comes to having conversations about best practices during labor and birth.
https://birthingbeautifulideas.com/?p=5327
And a blog post restating everything I just wrote a both (and have written 5,000 times on this board previously).
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
That sure showed her! Trusting a doctor. But then again, you don't care how someone chooses to approach labor and birth...as long as you agree with her choices.
JFC, you are a jackass. This just makes me really angry. My son was born via c/s, possibly a preventable one, and he spent a week with tubes IN HIS HEAD to deliver antibiotics after he was born. He had a spinal tap when he was six hours old. Do you have any freaking idea how sh!ttty that made my DH and I feel? Or any idea that I spent a year after his birth beating myself up about having had a c/s? I'm guessing she really, really doesn't need some jerkface like you posting about her on a message board about it being all her fault. You suck, my friend.
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
Holy hell, beany.
Against induction? Don't have one.
I hope you can find a way to set your ire aside and be supportive of your friend, because I'm sure she couldn't care less about your feelings right now.
JFC, I didn't respond to this post at first because it was the same NB post that gets put up once or twice a month. I, as always, agree with what iris said. Prior to my first birth, I would have agreed with you OP, but now that I am a mom and had a thing or two not go according to plan, I realize that I do not know everything and judge a whole hell of a lot less.
That being said, your post is dripping with a holier-than-thou attitude that makes me upset and gives everyone who posts on this board a bad reputation. You cannot say that the induction led to a baby in the NICU, because there may have been other confounding factors. So quit with the FB quarterbacking.
And also, if you really care about her ability to breastfeed do something useful rather than posting this crap online. Start by cooking up some freezer meals, getting a breastfeeding kit together (snacks, lanolin, water bottle, books, magazines) and make yourself available to do chores around the house.
On second thought, I am unsure if I would actually recommend that you visit over there, because your smugness would probably be all to apparent, and no new mom needs that sort of judgement.
I hope the rest of he friends aren't like you and once her son is ok she evaluates this friendship bc you are something else
hellz yes to this response.
I also enjoyed how the OP was able to quote directly the conversation between her friend and the OB.
Spending a day in the NICU will not mean babe won't breast feed nor that mom will have difficulty producing milk.
You must be gawdmned clairvoyant to know how this child's birth was "supposed to be".
Jesus this thread makes me mad.
for all you people who said that i am a bad friend for having these judgements, i want to clarify that she is not my friend. she is my stepbrothers wife who i barely know, i have met her maybe 6 or 7 times and we are not close. I am using her birth story as an example of how induction has become the accepted norm and that is the problem! YES, my tone is judgemental because i feel strongly about this! As for knowing how her birth is "supposed to be," it is supposed to be the way nature intended. Thats my belief. If you dont agree with me, fine. You are entitled to your own beliefs too. There are some people who posted about their own inductions and their own csections. As i stated in my OP, i understand that both are sometimes necessary if there is evidence of a medical reason. I never said any mom was bad or wrong for having a medically necessary induction or csection. my reason for being so worked up about this birth is because it WASNT medically necessary to induce!!!! And yes i do know that for a fact, this girl openly stated that she wanted to be induced because she was tired of being pregnant. Im tired of hearing stories of doctors inducing simply because of going past an ESTIMATED due date. and of course she doesnt care how i feel about this, i am not and dont plan on sharing my feelings about her birth with her, and i dont expect her to care what i think. my post was intended to vent about the overuse of induction. And no, i do not know for sure if her son wouldnt be in the NICU regardless of induction or not, but im willing to bet that the fluid in his lungs is a side effect of the csection, which was necessary because she failed to dilate from the pitocin, which wasnt needed in the first place. Flame away and call me a B, but im not changing my feelings on this. I find it ironic that the majority of the responses to my post are shaming me for being judgemental, while you all are judging me for posting on an anonymous board that this girl will never even see.
I'm glad Facebook has told you enough about this woman's conversations with her OB and the details of her childbirth to adequately judge the situation. Like someone else said, I'm glad you are able to harnass your psychic powers for the greater good of informing the world of the evils of inductions.
Seriously, it was bad enough when I ASSumed you knew the person well. Now that you barely know the woman and you're basing all your information off of Facebook postings, maybe you should keep your uninformed opinion to yourself.