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Natural Birth
abbyful
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Why why why? (Induction Rant)
abbyful
member
This isn't even necessarily a "natural birth" specific post, it could have to do even with moms who want the epi... But I want to rant! And I know I'm preaching to the choir here...
What is up with women being so quick to induce?! (And I know what it's like to go past the due date, my LO was 6 days "overdue" before my labor started naturally.)
A girl I work with was due on Saturday (2-9). Last week she already had her induction scheduled for today (2-12). No medical reason, she just said since the due date passed the baby should come out.
I'm not just singling her out, she's just the most recent example. The same story has played out with probably 80%+ of people I've known that have had babies in the last few years.
I strongly believe in, for healthy pregnancies, letting the baby come out WHEN THE BABY IS READY to come out! I see absolutely no reason for a healthy mother with a healthy baby to force the baby out on a certain day just because it's convenient for the mother!
I dare not say anything about this topic to most people I know though, else they'd probably think I was getting on a high-horse or being Judgy McJudgeson or something.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Why why why? (Induction Rant)
NorCalMOMS bio* NorCalBOTB* babywearingBIO
Harmony Doula
I'm more annoyed that doctors do elective inductions for no reason just because you're 40 weeks and change. A woman shouldn't need a medical degree to have a baby, but I think most doctors picked one of those up along the way.
The all to common induction>epi>stalled labour>more pit>distress>c-section cascade just makes me shake my head every time I hear it.
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Full disclosure: Lurker here who I did not have a natural unmedicated childbirth, though at one time I considered it, and used some NCB techniques to cope until I got an epidural.
I was induced, and very happily so. In a way I was relieved to have had a medical reason for an induction so that I didn't have to justify and explain why I did not want to go beyond my due date. Now, I don't think most women out there are facing similar concerns when they choose to induce - they're just tired of being pregnant, their doctors don't explain what happens if the induction fails, having the baby now sounds good, and off they go. I don't think that's good. But, if a woman and her doctor do discuss the risks and benefits of an induction versus waiting for labor to naturally start, and she chooses an induction knowing that it could fail and she could end up with a C-section, then that's her choice, and she's entitled to make it even if you would choose differently.
Married Bio * BFP Charts
I agree. Judging other women's medical choices doesn't sit well with me. Their body, their choice. The issue of why we have so many interventions is a complicated one, but it is a systemic problem that goes way beyond the individual choices different women make.
This. Women are made to believe that our bodies have no idea what to do when we are pregnant and when baby is ready to be born. Instead the doctors know when it is time and their schedules are more important than a developing baby. I also think that society makes women scared of child birth because it seems like an unpredictable, painful event. This makes women more inclined to have an induction because they will know when labor will start and they can get an epi to eliminate the pain. I am all for inductions if there is a valid medical reason but I think it is wrong to let women decide that they are done being pregnant and ready to have a baby. I also agree that doctors need to educate women on inductions and what can happen. Instead they only focus on meeting the baby.
This is what I was referring to. Women trust doctors, but our society/culture that many doctors follow suit of is very pro-intervention. The women take the advice of their "medical experts".
I had this experience when I was pregnant, too. The OB office I go to has several doctors, they rotate women through all the doctors and baby gets delivered by whomever is on-call. The doctor that delivered my baby was my favorite, and very supportive of me wanting a natural birth and would let me go up to 42w. But another doctor in the practice I saw 2 weeks before LO was born was already talking about when I would want to be induced!
After 42 weeks. There's no reason doctors should be pressuring low-risk healthy women with healthy babies to get induced at 39-40 weeks.
I'll just throw out there that I don't share with a lot of people, even very good friends, that the reason I wanted an induction before term is because my mother and her sister both had post-dates stillbirths. No, no competent OB would recommend a pregnancy lasting to 43w as their doctors did at the time, but those were otherwise healthy pregnancies and healthy babies, and there was no explanation for why it happened. Like I said, it was easier to explain my induction by pointing out that I had chronic hypertension (even though it was stable and I didn't need medication) than explaining a tragic family history and the resultant anxiety it caused me as I neared term.
Married Bio * BFP Charts
FTW. Well said!
Let's blame the system and crappy doctors, not the women.
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
I agree with this. I ended up having to be induced for medical reasons, but my doctor had been trying to pressure me for induction at 40 weeks well before any complications arose.
had to change my sn
Miracle Baby #1 - March 2012
Maybe I'll get flamed because of this but "Their body, their choice" doesn't apply as childbirth is called CHILDbirth and not MOTHERlabor because it's all about the child and not the mother. So no, not their bodies, it's their baby's body and the baby should be able to go out when it's ready. Unless there're medical reasons I don't understand why doctors push for induction.
Here in Holland they don't induce unless medically necessary or over 42 weeks! 40w3d is just ridiculous. Sorry.
You know, it's funny you say that, because the argument that it's not about the mother but completely and only about the child is often used to knock down natural birth advocates. I'm sure many of us, at least in the US, have heard that natural birth moms care about their "experience" more than their LOs, and think they know better than physicians when physicians are just trying to protect the BABY. The idea that women are just vessels is actually what drives some of this intervention craziness, like the saying we hear from OBs that "the only csection you'll get sued for is the one you didn't perform," i.e. getting the baby out is the most important thing and any complications to the mother will be overlooked. It's also the argument that's been used to justify court orders forcing women to have csections if they don't agree with their doctor's orders. I just think the whole "it's all about the baby" argument is very narrow minded. First of all, women are more than just walking wombs and we need to respect their autonomy. And second, it's an insult to women to say that they don't care about their babies unless they behave a certain way.
Oh FFS, like Nechie said, you know that your exact reasoning is used to blame women for choosing med-free birth, VBAC, home birth, water birth, elective c/s, elective induction, abortion and pretty much anything else a woman can *choose* to do with her body while pregnant.
I'll refrain from saying anything else I may regret, but seriously. You are ridiculous.
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
Really??? Child birth isn't about the mother? At all? Whose body has been nourishing and growing the child for nine months? Whose sweat, labor and tears go into bringing baby into the world? Child birth is about both mother and child. I am most certain that everyone on the NB would agree to that.
Further more, in the U.S. there is a huge emphasis on the baby throughout all of pregnancy and delivery. For example, a VBAC is slightly more risky for baby, while less risky for mom. If the medical institution thought the mom were so much more important, VBACs would be done left and right. Instead, women and Drs time and time again choose RCS over VBAC because of the perceived risk to the baby
Chilbirth is ONLY about the baby? LOL But ok, sure, let's go along with that assumption for a minute. The mother's body doesn't matter, and neither do her opinions, preferences, emotions, etc. OK.
Well first, let's ban VBAC because it has a higher rate of fetal mortality than RCS. Repeat csections for everyone! And ban home birth too, because some studies have shown an increase in fetal deaths at home births. Now I know that data is being debated, but since the mother doesn't matter at all, we should play it safe and make sure all babies are born in hospitals.
Also, no vaginal breech births or vaginal twin births, because scary things can happen to babies during those like head entrapment. We should also mandate all forms of prenatal testing to make sure everything is healthy for the babyit doesn't matter that some of those may go against the mother's beliefs or lead to unnecessary medical procedures for the mother. No ECVs because sometimes babies go into distress during those.
Hmm what else? The stillbirth rate increases every week after 35 weeks, so we should pick a definitive datesay, 39 or 40 weeks where we have decided that the fetal lungs are developed enough and deliver every baby at that point to make sure we don't have any stillbirths from postdates pregnancies. You know what, we might as well just deliver ALL babies by cesarean, because then we don't have to worry about all those things that can sometimes go wrong during labor, like shoulder dystocia, uterine rupture, cord prolapse, fetal distress, GBS transmission, meconium aspiration, brain damage due to lack of oxygen, etc. Never mind the fact that c/s significantly increase the mother's chance of infection, problems in future hypothetical pregnancies and even death. Oh and if a mother refuses any of these rules, we'll just get court orders and have them forced on her. That may completely violate her legal rights as a human being, but that is a small price to pay. It is called childbirth, not motherbirth, so none of that matters. Sounds good, right?
OR we could remember that there are two lives involved in childbirth, that mothers are human beings with rights, with their own fears and beliefs and desires. We can treat them with respect and allow them to make their own medical decisions. We can recognize that when a woman makes a medical decision during pregnancy, she is using her own algorithm to weigh all the risks and benefits, given the information she has and the medical, cultural, economic and emotional factors that matter to her. And we can accept that while we may not always understand or agree with those choices, her right to make them is paramount.
I'm sorry but that way of thinking just irks me.
At what point does personal responsibility come in? This is life and health of you and your child for goodness sake.
Should OB's be making their patiens more aware of the pros and cons of procedures so that said patient can actually give INFORMED consent? Absolutely! But we all know that doesnt happen nearly as often as it should.
So what the excuse in not asking questions, not picking up a book, not doing the research yourself, not acting like a Dr. is God. Its up to the mother to do those things, not the "system".
If you went to a doc for a routine procedure and he wanted to schedule you for surgery for no apparent reason, would you not at the very least get a second opinion? Would you not research exactly what the procedure is for, what the side effects are?, then why are we doing less for our babies?
I know what you are saying. But the problem is not everyone is as well educated and/or has access to the same resources.
I also think that as childbirth has gotten safer, we're arguing about what is essentially minuscule added risk in terms of morbidity and mortality. That's another reason the whole "but think of the BABY!!" argument doesn't play on either side of the spectrum.
Even medical researchers on the forefront of these issues are debating outcomes data. I think it's important to remember that while it seems very black and white to us natural birthers that we should avoid interventions as a matter of course, many women don't necessarily want to avoid a medicalized birth and the vast majority of them, and their babies, will come through just fine. Nor does a natural birth always guarantee a better outcome.
I agree. I have the same anger for forced inductions or c-sections for no medical reason up to 2 weeks before the due date or less than 2 weeks after the due date. The normal range is 2 weeks before to up to 2 weeks after and that's only if you know your exact conception date which most of these women didn't know because the pregnancy just spontaneously happened. They weren't charting or anything. I feel like so many of the babies might be borderline premies.
I did see an awesome ad with a series of pregnant belly photos from the march of dimes that urged women to give the baby the full 40 weeks. I think I even saw it in a magazine. I wish that ad would run more often.....
Our little lightbulb is on the way!
12 weeks 3 days
TTC since Oct 2011
Me: 33, hypothyroidism since 14, cleared all HSG, US, Pre-pregnancy panel tests.
Hubby: 36, testicular Ca, chemo April-May 2012.
Natural cycle IUI #1 with trigger and Progesterone Suppositories (Jun 2012) Neg
Natural Cycle IUI #2 with trigger and Progesterone Suppositories (Jul 2012) NEG
Aug 2012 - break due to needing a girls' weekend in Cape Cod
Natural Cycle IUI #3 with trigger and prednisone (Sep 2012) NEGATIVE
Switched fertility clinics - forced break Oct 2012
Natural Cycle IUI #4 (Nov 2012) no trigger, no progesterone, no prednisone (Nov 2012) - Neg
1st round Clomid Cycle IUI #5 (Dec 2012) - POS
this too.... Exactly the reason I'm choosing a midwife....
Our little lightbulb is on the way!
12 weeks 3 days
TTC since Oct 2011
Me: 33, hypothyroidism since 14, cleared all HSG, US, Pre-pregnancy panel tests.
Hubby: 36, testicular Ca, chemo April-May 2012.
Natural cycle IUI #1 with trigger and Progesterone Suppositories (Jun 2012) Neg
Natural Cycle IUI #2 with trigger and Progesterone Suppositories (Jul 2012) NEG
Aug 2012 - break due to needing a girls' weekend in Cape Cod
Natural Cycle IUI #3 with trigger and prednisone (Sep 2012) NEGATIVE
Switched fertility clinics - forced break Oct 2012
Natural Cycle IUI #4 (Nov 2012) no trigger, no progesterone, no prednisone (Nov 2012) - Neg
1st round Clomid Cycle IUI #5 (Dec 2012) - POS
I find it ridiculous that we're all supposed to basically get a degree in labor and birth to try and protect ourselves from getting cut open. It's the provider's job to keep us safe.
Some women don't have the resources or time to research labor and birth. Some women just don't want to. Some women don't know that their provider might not have their best interest at heart. Some women don't know that they could very well have a VBAC, and they believe their provider when they tell hear it's only RCS after a primary CS.
I did everything "right" the first time - took classes, read books, hired a doula, found the MW practice with the lowest CS rate in the area, and I *still* ended up with a CS that could probably have been prevented. And my story isn't that unique, there are plenty of women on this board and IRL who planned a med-free birth and ended up with something really different through no fault of their own.
Standing up to an institution (your provider and the hospital they work for, and ultimately insurance companies) is actually really hard for an individual to do.
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
Well said! And don't forget having to listen to something like, "Your baby could die!" I mean how do you go against your healthcare provider when you hear something like that?