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Parenting
Update on DH's bio DD
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Update on DH's bio DD
But her H doesn't have any rights. He signed them away. It sucks, it is terrible, but it is what it is.
My comment was directed at the aspect of a legal battle. There is nothing to fight.
I am sure you guys are enduring an internal and emotional struggle.
I think a councilor would give more closure than a lawyer. He probably has an extreme amount of guilt for giving up his parental rights and processing it has to be a tremendous undertaking.
It's not like the mother would have "tricked" him into it. He would have had to have independant legal advice for the process to have gone through. It's lovely that the poster and her DD have made him want to be a better man, but he doesn't get to walk back into his first daughters life just because he's grown up a bit.
The "Battle" comment was never about a legal battle. We have no legal battle to fight, and no rights, either. It is about the struggle and loss and desire for a better situation.
Ahh, ok that makes more sense now, and yes we are aware there is nothing we can do legally, we have already explored that road.
Unfortunately, it is what it is. And what it is is shittastic. On all sides.
Yeah sorry it came across that way. I wasn't trying to belittle or demean the emotions you guys are going through. As I have said multiple times, I can't imagine the struggles you guys are going through and having to deal with.
Your husband has to be experiencing a ton of a guilt and I really feel bad for him. I think it is good you are supportive of him and not trying to pour salt in the wound.
I love you.
That's a valid point.
I wish there was some other recourse because I don't think anyone doubts how much the OP and her DH care about this little girl. The world we live in isn't perfect unfortunately.
As Sofa said, I don't think you can really put into words the emotions her, and her husband, are both going through.
NO, the family did not cut off all contact. They just said no to seeing her this holiday season and said he could send a gift. I don't think he should walk away at this point because it sends the message that he's given up on a relationship. They haven't closed the door, just said it needs to be limited.
Her DH needs to continue to contact the parents and show he is open to respecting their boundaries but that he still wants to maintain a connection.
ITA.
I am sorry to say but no. We have been meeting with a child psychologist, according to her we should not be having B see you. We are supposed to leave it up to her at the age of 18, but until then she says it is not healthy or fair because she will just get confused. If you would like to send gifts that is fine.
That paragraph makes me think they have decided to not have them involved until she is 18 and can make her own decision. Maybe we all read it wrong?
Having B see her DH and her DH being involved are two different things. DH can still be involved, if they allow, by sending gifts or a card or letters, and he can still get updates and photos from the parents as they allow. They specifically said he could send a gift, meaning he's not out of the picture completely. They just don't think the emotional turmoil of a face to face meeting is in her best interest.
Right? That is weird to me. They don't want any contact.. but send some gifts!
I wonder if the mom and her husband would be skeezy enough to just pass it off as their own gifts to her? It isn't like the girl would get the chance to verify who sent it over the next 12 years.
I honestly don't think they would do that, but that's why this is so hard for us! "No sorry, you can't see B anymore because it's confusing to her, but you can continue all the other stuff because that isn't confusing at all..."
Wut??
That level of contact seems typical for open adoptions, which this isn't. It is more than DH's rights allow.
It's the contact that my sons' sibs have with their bio-mom. She gets updates from the family, but no direct contact. They tried it, it was too overwhelming, and went to their current arrangement.
Given the option between no involvement and this limited connection, I'd go with the limited connection and hope things smooth out and the door opens again for visits.
ETA: if that door never opens, at least when/if the daughter contacts your DH he can say he maintained as much of a connection as he was allowed and followed her milestones from afar.
That is what we are hoping for...only time will tell, we will continue to respect their boundaries and hope for the best.
Scrubbing the kitchen sink has provided me with some clarity...
Thanks for this discussion. I will now try to heed the advice I gave and not make my SSs' BM the villan either. It is easy to see it as black and white from your own perspective, but I know she was dealing with a host of issues when she gave up her parental responsibilities as well. It's easy to vilify her, especially since this is the second set of children she as walked away from, but she is also a complex person who experienced a loss as well and being angry at her will not help anything.
I obviously needed someone to talk this out with, and I appreciate the dialogue with you.
Well thank you for all your contribution to this post, it is so nice to talk to others who have some idea of what we are going through. We go to a counselor, but DH and I work seperate shifts so we no longer get to go together, which is hard, and our family just doesn't understand, and DH's family is very unsupportive, which doesn't help.
And yes, I would agree that the absolute hardest part is trying not to villify the other party involved. DH so badly wants to blame all of this on B's adoptive dad, and although I agree that he isn't handling the situation very well, I also think he is handling it the best way that he knows how. Nobody has a cookie cutter family, and in this day and age it is so hard to find a family that is not blended in some way.
Anyways, thanks again, it was nice to get a different perspective.
If this is something that is very important to your H, since he was only 19 when he signed away his parental rights, you can go to court and petition for partial rights and visitation. It is not a guarantee that you'll get visits, but it might allow you to amend the adoption to a more open agreement. It is much more difficult when the adoption happens between unrelated parents. But if I'm reading this correctly, she lives with her bio mother and adoptive father? It is not the same kind of adoption. Her adoptive dad is her father, and you guys will never get decision making powers. You will have to be okay with that. BUT, if you petition, you do have the option of having a court appointed child psych doing their own assessment. That was if that person says "yeah not in her best interest" maybe you guys could get some closure and just distance yourselves. But if they come back and say "Actually we could make this a very healthy and empowering agreement" Then you have a chance.
I know I'll probably get flamed for this. But I grew up in fostercare. I saw my bio mom once a month and my bio dad once a year. That is it. AND both of them are like scum of the earth horrible people. My dad more so than my mom. But it has not damaged me to know them. In fact I think it did me good to see what my life could have been and allowed me to see the blessings I had been given in my foster family. Honestly, I would have resented the *** out of my foster parents if they had tried to block me from my parents. I probably would have grown up all angsty and what not and would have gone through a rebellious "you're not my dad" phase and it would have lead to me trying to seek him out on my own. I don't know you, but I can imagine you and your H aren't cracks whores or abusive cult leader schitzos who have been in and out of jail for child abuse, domestic violence, and suspected murder.
I will tell you, while I was in the process of adopting my bio cousin, we pushed too hard against visitation with her dad. It was not in her best interest or ours to see him...very violent history, but we pushed against visitation and she ended up contacting him behind our back, because she had a "void" her words not mine, and she just didn't feel whole until she could talk to him and get her answers. It messed up our adoption and eventually her therapists had to arrange for her to see him in supervised visitation center. At the time it felt like and awful thing we had to go through. But you know, looking back, it did Cassi a lot of good. If I could do it again, I would have set up the visitation center from the start and saved her the worry of feeling loyal to us vs. wanting to know her dad. If any of that makes sense.
Either way, good luck. I'm sure you want what is best for her no matter what that answer is.
I am an adoptee and met my biological parents when I was in my twenties. (They were teenagers when they had me, and went on to marry other people.) I sure wish I would have met them and had their support and guidance earlier given the house I was raised in....To this day, I have no idea why my mom chose to adopt me. I am sure most adoptive homes are great but that's not always the case just like some bio parents are great and some are just the opposite.....
Anyhow, I know my situation is different but knowing that my bio parents did try and reach out to me when I was younger, thought of me on my birthdays, etc. made a difference to me, and they are an amazing part of my lives now, particularly my biological mom. So, if I were you, I would send gifts, cards, etc., and when the time comes that she is allowed to see you and/or chooses to see you, she will know that your DH regrets his decision and that both of you have always cared about her, hoped the best for her, and wanted to be in her lives to the extent that she is open to it. Honestly, who knows what they are telling her and they don't sound like they have her best interests in mind - sounds like there is a lot of insecurity clouding their decisions.
And, for what it's worth, I don't have resentment toward my bio parents. They were young and immature, and have carried guilt with them over me for a long time. They thought I would be raised in a better environment. And, even though I wasn't, it's hard to have any regrets..because the path I was on led to my DH, beautiful kids, great friends, etc.
Yes, we understand all of this. I'm assuming this was directed towards other posters because I have stated numerous times that we are well aware that we have no legal rights nor will we ever get any.
Actually some of this is untrue. I am also an adoptive parent, aside from that, my sister is an adoption social worker for the state and testified in trials all the time where parents who gave up their parental rights get some of them back. It does matter that he was 19. All he has to do is go to family court and request an impartial guardian of the court be named and that the court appoint a child psychologist to make a non biased decision based on the child's best interests. He can also request visitation. It happens all the time. Especially since this man has been given some visitation with his child and now they have been taken away, it can be argued that THAT is not in the best interest of the child.
And BTW sometimes parents do get their rights reinstated. I worked really hard on foster care reform laws and adoption reform laws in Massachusetts as part of the Annie Casey foundation to tighten things up so it can't happen, but it still does. It happens more than you think.
This isn't true actually, DH was in contact with B's mom from a very young age, he saw her when she was three weeks old, and then B's mom changed all her contact information and DH was unable to contact her again until B was two, when DH found her B's Mom on Myspace. From then on DH has had contact with B's Mom, and was always trying/asking to see B or be able to send B gifts/cards/ etc, but was always told no. When B turned six, her Mom and Dad finally agreed to letting us send her stuff, and then a meeting was set up.
Thank you so much for this information, we have talked to a few family lawyers and divorce lawyers, and they have all told us there is nothing we can do, however we have not asked to get an impartial court appointed guardian. My only concerns are, if we did go this route, and it didn't work out, I know that it would really make B's parents very upset..and then they may cut out all contact with us.
As an adoptive parent, I can tell you that it probably will. And there is only a small chance you'd get visitation out of it anyway, because like PPs have said, it does make a difference in court that he hasn't had regular contact with her or contacted the courts before. But it is still a route that you have open to you. I suspect it may differ from state to state as well. So maybe the information your lawyers gave you holds more in your state than it does here.
We have been working on tightening things up for a long time here. It isn't good to have so much up in the air and it makes people fearful to adopt. My sister had a family that was terrorized by a birth father that had signed away his rights. Like he stalked them and would drive by the kid's school, show up at their house at all hours, and he was still granted supervised visitation. He was so horrible to the family that they were fearful for their safety and the safety of their biological DS. That adoption fell through. It was a super sad situation. My sister was heart broken for the family and heart broken for the little boy.
Just to be clear, I said he could petition for an impartial guardian to be appt. Not that he would get his rights reinstated. It can happen, but it is rare that it does. However in Massachusetts, parental rights can be terminated and those parents can still be granted visitation. It is whatever the court deems in the best interest for the child. It has nothing to do with the parent's rights and more to do with the rights of the child.
From my understanding he never contacted the courts because all the lawyers that he contacted told him that there was nothing he could do, so why would he then contact the courts?
And..unless someone is forcing your hand to the keyboard, I'm pretty sure you can quit talking about this anytime you please.
I agree with this.
I think it is important for you to read the bolded part.
DH is not trying to play daddy, we are both well aware that, that role is filled.
Guys, the OP seems well aware that they have no rights and also stated numerous times that they have no desire to play the parent role. Repeating over and over again that her DH is not his bio daughter's dad, is just hurtful. It seems to me that a certain amount of contact and relationship building was allowed to happen, and attachments were allowed to happen and now the adoptive parents need a little space. She never said they want to go in gangbuster style and start having parental say, just that they need advice on how to deal with the parent's decision AND maybe get to have some contact. She hasn't villianized the parents, hasn't bad talked.....unless I missed something. Just a sort of "Our sitch is shitty and we're sad" reach out and update.
This is not an easy situation. I'm sorry OP that you're going through this with your H and I'm sorry if you've felt like you've had to repeat yourself a million times and defend your feelings for your H's DD.
Wow, thank you, I appreciate all of this very much.
And yes, I was just trying to update, and also maybe vent a little..it's hard to talk about this with anyone IRL and not get biased feedback.