Switched doctors and getting a 2nd u/s

JellyTwoPointO · November 2012

So I don't like the doctors office I've been working with. I only went back to them because I was a previous patient and needed medicine ASAP for my P4 levels and that was the fastest way to get it. But they're not who I wanted long term.

I found an OB/GYN today that literally over 10 people in my life have raved about. He's a fully certified western OBGYN but he practices holistic health and does everything naturally whenever possible. I guess he likes to specialize in women with PCOS and has done a great job handling high risk pregnancies. So I've officially enrolled as a patient and they want to do their own ultrasound so I get to have another one on Dec 5th. I'll be 8w4d.

I've heard that having too many ultrasounds can be bad for the baby. I don't know if this is true or not. Can anyone shed some light on that?

KikiCohen · November 2012

I've read that you shouldn't have unnecessary u/s, but never that too many are dangerous. FWIW- I've already had four- three were just quick informal ones by my OB and the other was a formal dating u/s.

ellewoodsSC · November 2012

No, these kinds of ultrasounds are fine and medically necessary. The medical groups do discourage those elective type 3D ultrasounds done purely for "entertainment" purposes. There is some concerned that prolonged high intensity ultrasound like the 3D types can transfer heat to the body. I've also encountered some concern about effecting baby's hearing development, but I think as a whole there is no studies showing negative effects of ultrasounds done in a controlled medical fashion.

PrimRoseMama · November 2012

Define "too many". I think you'd have to have thousands or something to have a negative impact on a fetus. Honestly, I don't understand the concern. You are exposed to various amounts of radiation on a daily basis by living and working. You can always decline ultrasounds if you don't want them, but I wouldn't recommend it.

MOMofGnGn+1 · November 2012

I think that used to be the thought that too many were unsafe, but I think with recent studies its been shown not to be the case. But I would just ask your doctor.

cold0009 · November 2012

I am really glad that you found an OB/GYN that has the same beliefs as you! I have never heard of any negatives effects from too many ultrasounds.

noraraeuc · November 2012

the safety of ultrasounds is highly unproven and disputable. think of it this way, they can sterilize a man by using ultrasound on their testicles. sound safe for an embryo? ultrasounds for fetal use are stronger then those used to clean jewelry, and can displace DNA. we wonder why the autism rate is rising so much >< ultrasounds in general are not "necessary" most midwifery practices skip their use including the one I work with. we don't even use dopplers for fetal heart tones because they use the same sound waves and we do not believe they are safe. millions of years of human life without ultrasounds, we sure survived well!

noraraeuc · November 2012

you've already had an ultrasound to confirm things, they can get that info from your medical records. if they want to check fetal health they can wait till you are far along enough for fetal heart tones or for the anatomy scan. normal, healthy pregnancies only "need" two ultrasounds- one early on for dating and fetal count, and one for anatomy around 20 weeks. any in between or after if you have no complications are useless.

pepomntpat · November 2012

I had 6 with DD between 7 weeks and 41 weeks and she is more than fine.

KikiCohen · November 2012

noraraeuc:
the safety of ultrasounds is highly unproven and disputable. think of it this way, they can sterilize a man by using ultrasound on their testicles. sound safe for an embryo? ultrasounds for fetal use are stronger then those used to clean jewelry, and can displace DNA. we wonder why the autism rate is rising so much >< ultrasounds in general are not "necessary" most midwifery practices skip their use including the one I work with. we don't even use dopplers for fetal heart tones because they use the same sound waves and we do not believe they are safe. millions of years of human life without ultrasounds, we sure survived well!

Wow, you're chiming in over here too? Hmm Where is the research that backs this up??

noraraeuc · November 2012

Miss JellyBean and I are already on the same page on a lot of things, no worries here

I've been studying midwifery for going on four years now. The school I study with is Ancient Arts Midwifery Institute, the most thorough in the country, and Carla Harley, a founder, also runs Doppler Danger which studies ultrasound safety.

pepomntpat · November 2012

noraraeuc:
the safety of ultrasounds is highly unproven and disputable. think of it this way, they can sterilize a man by using ultrasound on their testicles. sound safe for an embryo? ultrasounds for fetal use are stronger then those used to clean jewelry, and can displace DNA. we wonder why the autism rate is rising so much >< ultrasounds in general are not "necessary" most midwifery practices skip their use including the one I work with. we don't even use dopplers for fetal heart tones because they use the same sound waves and we do not believe they are safe. millions of years of human life without ultrasounds, we sure survived well!

I am glad to know that you know exactly what everyone needs. Can you tell me what your certification is? And your sources? And Natural News is not a source. HTH

JellyTwoPointO · November 2012

Thanks so much for all the input, ladies. I guess I'm just going to be a PgAL worrier no matter what -- I'll worry about how my baby is without the ultrasound and I'll worry if I'm doing damage from too many. :-) Goodness, the emotional roller coaster of pregnancy is not for sissies!

I really appreciate the thoughts of everyone here. I like getting a variety of viewpoints and opinion and I'm so grateful for the never ending support. Y'all rock!

noraraeuc · November 2012

https://guggiedaly.blogspot.com/2011/09/doppler-dangers-ultrasound-list.html

noraraeuc · November 2012

Going on four years now of endless and non stop research/training/independent research on all things parenting including vaccines, pregnancy, birth, postpartum, ultrasound usage, circumcision, infant nutrition, neurological effects of all choices, etc.

pepomntpat · November 2012

noraraeuc:
https://guggiedaly.blogspot.com/2011/09/doppler-dangers-ultrasound-list.html

Ooooh! A blog is a really reliable source! Thanks! [wish I knew how to insert eye roll in Chrome]

Sorry, jellybean for hijacking. You really can decline the u/s if it will make you feel better. I always felt better getting one. I needed the information.

noraraeuc · November 2012

Did you even check out any of the links on that link? That is Doppler Danger's resource list. Doppler Danger, a legitimate source run by a childbirth educator, midwife and founder of the best Midwifery school in America.

Is there a reason you are being an ass and trying to disprove everything I say? Because none of it is false. I see you with no factual, legitimate information to support your "opinion" nor any training.

KitT.Kat · November 2012

noraraeuc:

Did you even check out any of the links on that link? That is Doppler Danger's resource list. Doppler Danger, a legitimate source run by a childbirth educator, midwife and founder of the best Midwifery school in America.

Is there a reason you are being an ass and trying to disprove everything I say? Because none of it is false. I see you with no factual, legitimate information to support your "opinion" nor any training.

If you click on "quote" insted of "reply" your reply will be linked to the person you are speaking to. Most of the time it is obvious but when threads get long it's helpful to those who are reading.

noraraeuc · November 2012

Most of the links on that list are from AAMI itself as well as Midwifery Today, an international midwifery journal. Geez.

JellyTwoPointO · November 2012

*sigh* Obviously, you all can do what you want, and that's ok, but this is me respectfully asking that the fight stops. I'm not mad at anyone... I just kinda wanted to keep the thread peaceful...

pepomntpat · November 2012

noraraeuc:
Did you even check out any of the links on that link? That is Doppler Danger's resource list. Doppler Danger, a legitimate source run by a childbirth educator, midwife and founder of the best Midwifery school in America.

Is there a reason you are being an ass and trying to disprove everything I say? Because none of it is false. I see you with no factual, legitimate information to support your "opinion" nor any training.

I do not like that you come on here with unreliable sources and tell women what to do as though you know better than their doctors. Maybe you do know better. I don't know. I don't know you. Why should I trust what you say over the advice of a medical doctor? Or my own midwife? I am not trying to disprove what you say. I am asking for a reliable source. You cited natural news in the post below and a blog in this post. Those are not reliable sources. That is covered in research 101 in college and in most high school classes as well. So, what I want is a reliable source for what you say. That is what I am asking.

And sure, I can do my own research. But, you say you have done it. I just want a source. I mean I can go find it in the library if you can give a citation.

As it stands now, my evidence of a healthy daughter despite vaccines and u/s is just as reliable if not more so than your evidence.

cburitz · November 2012

I had at least 8 ultrasounds with DS. He's fine.

Just think of it as another chance to see your LO.

pepomntpat · November 2012

Jellybean902:
*sigh* Obviously, you all can do what you want, and that's ok, but this is me respectfully asking that the fight stops. I'm not mad at anyone... I just kinda wanted to keep the thread peaceful...

Sorry I posted before I saw this. I will desist.

PrimRoseMama · November 2012

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I am honestly curious. No one in the "minimal ultrasound" camp has answered how many u/s are "too many"? I am honestly curious about this because for one woman two u/s might be "too many" but another woman could take 10 or 20 and be fine. I just don't understand how anyone can determine how many ultrasounds are too many and may harm the fetus?

Also, I dislike the unresearched assertions here. Please give me medical journals or something to read that is not some funky naturals site. I am as natural as possible in all my stuff, but this whole "u/s may be dangerous to the baby" thing makes me roll my eyes so hard it hurts. DD we had 8 u/s and she is healthy and smart.

JellyTwoPointO · November 2012

ramy3695:
I had an ultrasound at almost every appointment with DS and he is a perfectly developed, very intelligent 2 year old. Germany is considered one of the best countries in the world for maternity and postpartum care, even by natural birth advocates and midwives like Ina May Gaskin. The OBs here routinely give ultrasounds at every prenatal appointment.
With that being said, I don't see the need for that many ultrasounds. I think they should be limited to the NT scan and the a/s or if there is a possible or suspected problem with the pregnancy (ie. previous loss, lack of movement, etc.).

AAAAHHHH! I *just now* noticed you are from Germany. That's where I was born :-)

Dubsgirlie · November 2012

noraraeuc:
the safety of ultrasounds is highly unproven and disputable. think of it this way, they can sterilize a man by using ultrasound on their testicles. sound safe for an embryo? ultrasounds for fetal use are stronger then those used to clean jewelry, and can displace DNA. we wonder why the autism rate is rising so much >< ultrasounds in general are not "necessary" most midwifery practices skip their use including the one I work with. we don't even use dopplers for fetal heart tones because they use the same sound waves and we do not believe they are safe. millions of years of human life without ultrasounds, we sure survived well!

So thank you for now making me nervous. Some of us don't have a choice but to have many and I don't feel that this was at all necessary or appropriate. I work with Autistic children and have studied a lot of journals and research, and while there are many theories as to the cause, but I've NEVER hear of ultrasounds. Sorry, jellybean to keep this going, but this really really upset me. I believe *cautiously* in modern medicine, but would never ever put down other means and I would certain appreciate the same respect. Your way is no more right than ours.

JellyTwoPointO · November 2012

ramy3695:
Jellybean902:
ramy3695:
I had an ultrasound at almost every appointment with DS and he is a perfectly developed, very intelligent 2 year old. Germany is considered one of the best countries in the world for maternity and postpartum care, even by natural birth advocates and midwives like Ina May Gaskin. The OBs here routinely give ultrasounds at every prenatal appointment.
With that being said, I don't see the need for that many ultrasounds. I think they should be limited to the NT scan and the a/s or if there is a possible or suspected problem with the pregnancy (ie. previous loss, lack of movement, etc.).

AAAAHHHH! I *just now* noticed you are from Germany. That's where I was born :-)
Well, I'm not from here, but we've lived here for the past three years. DH is active duty Air Force and we've been stationed at a small base without a hospital so all of my care has been off base.. We're moving back to the States in 2 weeks and I'm really going to miss my OB here!

Oh wow, good luck with your move! The Air Force is why my family was over there as well, but the base is now closed down. Where are you getting stationed at in the states? Ohmagoodness, I miss lebkuchen -- like, REAL lebkuchen.

KitT.Kat · November 2012

Dubsgirlie:

noraraeuc:
the safety of ultrasounds is highly unproven and disputable. think of it this way, they can sterilize a man by using ultrasound on their testicles. sound safe for an embryo? ultrasounds for fetal use are stronger then those used to clean jewelry, and can displace DNA. we wonder why the autism rate is rising so much >< ultrasounds in general are not "necessary" most midwifery practices skip their use including the one I work with. we don't even use dopplers for fetal heart tones because they use the same sound waves and we do not believe they are safe. millions of years of human life without ultrasounds, we sure survived well!

So thank you for now making me nervous. Some of us don't have a choice but to have many and I don't feel that this was at all necessary or appropriate. I work with Autistic children and have studied a lot of journals and research, and while there are many theories as to the cause, but I've NEVER hear of ultrasounds. Sorry, jellybean to keep this going, but this really really upset me. I believe *cautiously* in modern medicine, but would never ever put down other means and I would certain appreciate the same respect. Your way is no more right than ours.

Yes

JellyTwoPointO · November 2012

ramy3695:
Jellybean902:

Oh wow, good luck with your move! The Air Force is why my family was over there as well, but the base is now closed down. Where are you getting stationed at in the states? Ohmagoodness, I miss lebkuchen -- like, REAL lebkuchen.
We're heading into 4 years of recruiter duty so it will be a new experience to not be close to a base or around other military families. My DS and I will be staying in my hometown with family for a few months while DH is in training, then we'll be moving (again) to SC.

You'll have to let me know how it goes! Who knows, maybe you'll find some other people there? It's true that military families form a sort of community bubble and it will be really different to break from that. My SIL is married to a recruiter for the Army. I hope the adjustment goes well and you meet lots of people. At least you're going to a warmer state!

sparkymcgeee · November 2012

etoille:

Anecdotally, if 'displacing dna' is a concern then letting immunity arise via infection should be absolutely alarming consider that's the basic job of a virus.

One would think that immunity via vaccine would be preferable if the goal is to reduce 'dna displacement'.

One very good example - cervical cancer.

Just throwin that out there.

I'm kind of excited about the prospect of having my own X-man baby.

This BMB is going to suck if Nora can't reign in the crazy unsolicited agenda spewing.

valstulas · November 2012

I have heard some people speculate about a link between autism and ultrasound, but I don't believe there is any conclusive evidence. I don't think an extra early ultrasound would pose any risk (there are women who have weekly u/s at the end of their pregnancies), but if you feel that another u/s is unnecessary, see if your old office can send over the images from your other u/s.

Chester84 · November 2012

noraraeuc:
the safety of ultrasounds is highly unproven and disputable. think of it this way, they can sterilize a man by using ultrasound on their testicles. sound safe for an embryo? ultrasounds for fetal use are stronger then those used to clean jewelry, and can displace DNA. we wonder why the autism rate is rising so much >< ultrasounds in general are not "necessary" most midwifery practices skip their use including the one I work with. we don't even use dopplers for fetal heart tones because they use the same sound waves and we do not believe they are safe. millions of years of human life without ultrasounds, we sure survived well!

I've read on twitter that staring at computers for long periods of time can also cause autism.

Chester84 · November 2012

etoille:
Yeah I think I remember that feed. Also said something about cheetoes causing aids?

Gasp! It's a conspiracy! Cheetos must be owned by Big Pharma!

PrimRoseMama · November 2012

Anyone that thinks Cheetos causes Aids or ultrasounds will warp your baby needs to calm down. Tin foil hats are not fashionable at all.

Plus, cheetos rule.

I am hoping for a Kitty Pride Baby (Xmen nerd here) for the win.

Dubsgirlie · November 2012

Chester84:

noraraeuc:
the safety of ultrasounds is highly unproven and disputable. think of it this way, they can sterilize a man by using ultrasound on their testicles. sound safe for an embryo? ultrasounds for fetal use are stronger then those used to clean jewelry, and can displace DNA. we wonder why the autism rate is rising so much >< ultrasounds in general are not "necessary" most midwifery practices skip their use including the one I work with. we don't even use dopplers for fetal heart tones because they use the same sound waves and we do not believe they are safe. millions of years of human life without ultrasounds, we sure survived well!

I've read on twitter that staring at computers for long periods of time can also cause autism.

Awesome!

blue_elle · November 2012

noraraeuc:
the safety of ultrasounds is highly unproven and disputable. think of it this way, they can sterilize a man by using ultrasound on their testicles. sound safe for an embryo? ultrasounds for fetal use are stronger then those used to clean jewelry, and can displace DNA. we wonder why the autism rate is rising so much >< ultrasounds in general are not "necessary" most midwifery practices skip their use including the one I work with. we don't even use dopplers for fetal heart tones because they use the same sound waves and we do not believe they are safe. millions of years of human life without ultrasounds, we sure survived well!

Ultrasounds performed by an appropriately accredited sonographer are safe. Please do provide some references for your ultrasound/autism link beyond correlation in rising use and diagnosis. I can point out an awful lot of things we use more often in modern life and say that's why autism rates have risen.

Ultrasound for sterilization is in the test stages on rodents. It used a much higher frequency or more concentrated dose of ultrasonic waves than normal ultrasound - again on a tiny rodent - which had the effect of temporarily causing sterilization of the mice. It is not in use on humans (that I'm aware) because it's effectiveness has not yet been determined.

It is true that sound waves can cause a temperature increase in the tissue being scanned - this increase is approximately up to 1 degree C. This is not enough heat to cause damage. As rise of 4 degrees C may cause harm to the tissue being scanned. Again, this is where having a properly trained and accredited sonographer is important. Modern ultrasound machines have thermal indicators built in to monitor temperature rise. Color scans and doppler cause temperature to rise faster and should be limited to less than 30 minutes. Because of this neither is routinely used in early pregnancy.

Ultrasounds for entertainment are discouraged as these are often performed by people who have little or no formal training, use higher termal rate scanning techniques, and often last long periods of time.

OSULori · November 2012

PrimRoseMama:
Anyone that thinks Cheetos causes Aids or ultrasounds will warp your baby needs to calm down. Tin foil hats are not fashionable at all.
Plus, cheetos rule.
I am hoping for a Kitty Pride Baby (Xmen nerd here) for the win.

Oooh a Kitty Pride baby would be fun, but it'd make the kid sneaking out of the house as a teenager a lot easier I'm going for a Wolverine baby, but it'd use its powers for good, not evil...and be a total badass. Though we'd have to do something about the haircut...

luvmyducks · November 2012

noraraeuc:
the safety of ultrasounds is highly unproven and disputable. think of it this way, they can sterilize a man by using ultrasound on their testicles. sound safe for an embryo? ultrasounds for fetal use are stronger then those used to clean jewelry, and can displace DNA. we wonder why the autism rate is rising so much >< ultrasounds in general are not "necessary" most midwifery practices skip their use including the one I work with. we don't even use dopplers for fetal heart tones because they use the same sound waves and we do not believe they are safe. millions of years of human life without ultrasounds, we sure survived well!

Why must you give your opinion as fact?? Others are respectful when giving their opinions on a matter. But you come out guns blazing and completely closed minded.

I've noticed this with many posters that are anti-modern medicine. Get a grip. Your way is not always the right way for everyone. What is wrong with posting your thoughts and opinions as just that, your opinion, and then let everyone decide what they want?

sparkymcgeee · November 2012

Gah there are so many awesome X-men! I think I'm going big or going home. Professor X!

luvmyducks · November 2012

meimsx:
Gah there are so many awesome X-men! I think I'm going big or going home. Professor X!

Yes

OSULori · November 2012

meimsx:
Gah there are so many awesome X-men! I think I'm going big or going home. Professor X!

Oooh, good call! Plus, did you see young Professor X in X Men: First Class? He was cuuuuuuuuuuuuute!

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