Since religious folks don't want the gov to redefine "marriage"...

btartaroind · November 2012

Scout2005:

Spooko:
RondackHiker:
CoffeeBeen:
So, maybe this is the part of the puzzle that I don't get, legalization aside, why do some Christians think that homosexuality is bad?nbsp;
Because the bible says it is wrong. Now, if you read from a historical context and if you read and understand the whole chapter and bible, not just select verses, you walk away with a different picture. Which is why many sects of Christianity are now accepting and performing gay marriages.
Not to mention that Jesus doesn't even touch on the issue himself. The OT has verses (and I've read a good argument they're actually referring to prostitution) and Paul writes about it, but not Jesus IIRC.

Well sure, if you're actually going to require people to read the Bible and put it into context, instead of going with "but my pastor SAID SO."

I have yet to have anyone give a legitimate argument that the Bible actually forbids consensual homosexual relationships. The misreading and misquoting of Leviticus just makes people using that passage as their basis look stupid.

And if they do offer Leviticus, I am then forced to ask where they get their tent to sit in during menstruation, their animals for ritual sacrifice, their cloth made of no mixed materials and how long their husband's beards and side curls are. Because either live it all to the letter or STFU.You don't get to cherry pick the hateful parts and then ignore the ones that aren't convenient to you.

And if the OT covenant is null and void because of the coming of Christ, then that REALLY takes the winds out of the whole "God's not down with the gays" argument. Because it ain't in Jesus' teachings. So...?

This whole thing just pisses me off SO MUCH.

I'm not a regular on this board, nor do I normally participate in these types of posts. But I couldn't leave this alone.

God (let's keep in mind the trinity, three in one person is God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus was there from the beginning and will be to the end as part of a triune God) in Genesis stated that marriage is to be between one man and one woman. This is the way he created it. Later on in Genesis, Adam and Eve sinned that first original sin and the world was changed forever. We are all born into that sin as a consequence. This is why there is death, disease, etc. Adam and Eve, along with all of us, have chosen this path and the world will never be like what God had created originally. Because of this (since Jesus had yet to come as the ultimate sacrifice) humans had to repent in some way, but using animals as sarifices. They also had other rituals as you stated above because of sin. (You know God didn't originally create women to have pain in childbirth and to menstrate, this was all part of the curse as a consequense of man's fall.) Enter Jesus Christ who died for our sins, and now these rituals are unnecesary.

Anyway to wrap it up, God created marriage to be between one man and one woman before man sinned. Man decided to sin and eat the apple creating a world where rituals were needed so they could repent and be clean and pleasing before God. Jesus came and took the need for these rituals away.

God's design for marriage never changed throughout any of this. Man created the need for the rituals. Jesus took that away. That's why some things in the new testament are still relative and others aren't. Just like the ten commandments. That was in the Old Testament... definitely still relavent.

CinemaGoddess · November 2012

I vote we go back to bride price.

XOXO,

the woman with two daughters.

NastyAnnie · November 2012

CinemaGoddess:
I vote we go back to bride price.

XOXO,

the woman with two daughters.

Can we go with the Iron Price instead?

If we're going to base our laws on a work of fiction, let's go with one that tells a better story.

CinemaGoddess · November 2012

NastyAnnie:
CinemaGoddess:

I vote we go back to bride price.

XOXO,

the woman with two daughters.

Can we go with the Iron Price instead?

If we're going to base our laws on a work of fiction, let's go with one that tells a better story.

YES.

AppleMomma · November 2012

lancyjo:
I'm a hot mess when it comes to this issue. I contradict myself and look like a hypocrite and can't very well articulate how I actually feel about it. So, if this makes zero sense to you I understand.

Let me also preface this with: I am a Christian. I believe homosexuality is a sin. I also believe that homosexuals are loved by God regardless of their sin, as are all sinners, and can go to heaven. God doesn't have "levels" of sins... the inmate on death row has committed no worse sins in God's eyes than I did by telling a white lie. So, as long as I continue to sin (so as long as I live because nobody is perfect), I commit no worse offense in God's eyes than a homosexual. I believe that I serve a loving, forgiving God who in no way would want me to spew hatred or discriminate against anyone, for any reason.

In my pre-bump days, in my sheltered Christian life in Podunk, I was 100% against gay marriage. Who are they to steal the sanctity of my union?! The mere thought appalled me. Then I talked to my Papaw, a Baptist minister, who explained the "God has no "levels" of sins" thing to me, and told me that I most certainly would see people in heaven who were homosexuals on earth. (we believe that there is no sexuality/unions in heaven) So wait, what? My Papaw, the most conservative man I know, says that gay people aren't "evil", and that letting them be married in no way effects my marriage?

Enter the bump into my life. I'm exposed to so many different cultures and lifestyles and life choices... I learn that I can respectfully disagree with others, we don't have to share the same views... and someone says to me, "Why is it any of the government's business who gets married? Why does YOUR church/religion have the final say? Would you love your husband any less, or be any less committed to him should a gay couple be given their right to be married? Why can't gay people be legally married, but just not recognized in the eyes of the church? Why does the church get to dictate what is legal?" BOOM. I get it now.

I'm still not a fan of gay marriage, but only because I don't support homosexuality. My God tells me to "Love thy neighbor as they self", and that's what I plan to do. Love everyone, regardless of their sexual orientation, religion, or color. Let every human have the same rights, let them be married if they wish. I'm still going to honor my vows and love my husband with every fiber of my being, regardless of if another man loves his husband this much too.

Sorry if this makes no sense to anyone else. I'm still trying to find a short, simple way to say it. Maybe: God tells us to love one another. No exceptions. Let them be married.

Thank you for posting this. I totally blew it up the other day on my BMB, and I can totally see now how my "attempt" at sharing what I believe looked like total bull-hockey, and completely judgmental, I honestly don't think I even know WHAT I was trying to say.

I now do. It's EXACTLY what you are stating. THAT is how I need to perceive this, that is truth, and I apologize to anyone who saw my disgraceful conduct on the BMB. I was wrong in the way I approached it.

Thank you lancyjo

AppleMomma · November 2012

btartaroind:

I'm not a regular on this board, nor do I normally participate in these types of posts. But I couldn't leave this alone.

God (let's keep in mind the trinity, three in one person is God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus was there from the beginning and will be to the end as part of a triune God) in Genesis stated that marriage is to be between one man and one woman. This is the way he created it. Later on in Genesis, Adam and Eve sinned that first original sin and the world was changed forever. We are all born into that sin as a consequence. This is why there is death, disease, etc. Adam and Eve, along with all of us, have chosen this path and the world will never be like what God had created originally. Because of this (since Jesus had yet to come as the ultimate sacrifice) humans had to repent in some way, but using animals as sarifices. They also had other rituals as you stated above because of sin. (You know God didn't originally create women to have pain in childbirth and to menstrate, this was all part of the curse as a consequense of man's fall.) Enter Jesus Christ who died for our sins, and now these rituals are unnecesary.

Anyway to wrap it up, God created marriage to be between one man and one woman before man sinned. Man decided to sin and eat the apple creating a world where rituals were needed so they could repent and be clean and pleasing before God. Jesus came and took the need for these rituals away.

God's design for marriage never changed throughout any of this. Man created the need for the rituals. Jesus took that away. That's why some things in the new testament are still relative and others aren't. Just like the ten commandments. That was in the Old Testament... definitely still relavent.

Yes

LoveBeingAWife33008 · November 2012

Either everyone gets it, or none. I hate people being discriminated against.

CinemaGoddess · November 2012

There was marriage before the Bible, so it would be a stretch to say God "created" marriage.

CoffeeBeen · November 2012

AppleMomma:
btartaroind:

I'm not a regular on this board, nor do I normally participate in these types of posts. But I couldn't leave this alone.

God (let's keep in mind the trinity, three in one person is God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus was there from the beginning and will be to the end as part of a triune God) in Genesis stated that marriage is to be between one man and one woman. This is the way he created it. Later on in Genesis, Adam and Eve sinned that first original sin and the world was changed forever. We are all born into that sin as a consequence. This is why there is death, disease, etc. Adam and Eve, along with all of us, have chosen this path and the world will never be like what God had created originally. Because of this (since Jesus had yet to come as the ultimate sacrifice) humans had to repent in some way, but using animals as sarifices. They also had other rituals as you stated above because of sin. (You know God didn't originally create women to have pain in childbirth and to menstrate, this was all part of the curse as a consequense of man's fall.) Enter Jesus Christ who died for our sins, and now these rituals are unnecesary.

Anyway to wrap it up, God created marriage to be between one man and one woman before man sinned. Man decided to sin and eat the apple creating a world where rituals were needed so they could repent and be clean and pleasing before God. Jesus came and took the need for these rituals away.

God's design for marriage never changed throughout any of this. Man created the need for the rituals. Jesus took that away. That's why some things in the new testament are still relative and others aren't. Just like the ten commandments. That was in the Old Testament... definitely still relavent.

All this said was:

Unrelated assertion about religion, unrelated assertion about religion, God created marriage to be between one man and one woman, something about rituals.

I'm beginning to think that the most salient characteristic of the anti-gay marriage movement is their inability to form an argument. Just saying stuff about God doesn't make it true. And just saying stuff about God, even if true, doesn't impact our legal system.

I invite either of you to offer a real arguments that doesn't hinge on you putting words in God's mouth.

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