CIO - I don't understand!

SoDoMojo · November 2012

I don't have much to add except my kid happily goes to bed and sleeps for 12 hrs nightly. He must be so traumatized that I let him cry three nights. Poor thing. Oh well. At least I'm rested!

noahchristopher · November 2012

I have a question to Sunny Muffin. And please, I don't mean to be disrespectful, because you in no way have been. I just read "peaceful parenting" in the web address and it begs the question......

Many families pre-CIO live anything but peaceful lives because of sleep disruptions and sleep problems. I myself can attest to that. I also wonder how peaceful parenting is when your child continues to cry with regard to sleep well into the toddler years. This is vs. those who choose CIO, have a week or two tops of "unpeacefulness" and then for the most part, have a very peaceful household from then on out. With of course occasional bumps with sickness and teething and developmental milestones.

I would argue that utilizing CIO may actually be a more peaceful way to parent in the long run. And I say this also from direct observations of close friends and family members who are anti-CIO, who have disruptive households for years.

Just my opinion.

noahchristopher · November 2012

SoDoMojo:
I don't have much to add except my kid happily goes to bed and sleeps for 12 hrs nightly. He must be so traumatized that I let him cry three nights. Poor thing. Oh well. At least I'm rested!

The best post yet so far, and I think the shortest! Way to go! You're awesome. Good job summing it up.

Love the sig pic. Hilarious.

SunnyMuffin · November 2012

noahchristopher:
I have a question to Sunny Muffin. And please, I don't mean to be disrespectful, because you in no way have been. I just read "peaceful parenting" in the web address and it begs the question......

Many families pre-CIO live anything but peaceful lives because of sleep disruptions and sleep problems. I myself can attest to that. I also wonder how peaceful parenting is when your child continues to cry with regard to sleep well into the toddler years. This is vs. those who choose CIO, have a week or two tops of "unpeacefulness" and then for the most part, have a very peaceful household from then on out. With of course occasional bumps with sickness and teething and developmental milestones.

I would argue that utilizing CIO may actually be a more peaceful way to parent in the long run. And I say this also from direct observations of close friends and family members who are anti-CIO, who have disruptive households for years.

Just my opinion.

I obviously am no parenting expert but I think you should just do what makes your baby happy. I swaddled/nursed/rocked my baby to sleep until he was 8 or 9 months, at that point he stopped falling asleep while eating and I just put him in his crib awake to sleep. There was never really any crying. From what I understand, parents of fussy babies just need to take a different approach.. like letting your baby be close to you and sleep with you at night. If your baby is crying every couple hours for food, just let them sleep near you and they can nurse whenever they want. That way everyone can enjoy a good nights sleep.

If my next baby were to be fussier, I'd get a bigger bed and co-sleep instead of getting up to feed my baby, or leaving him to cry to train him to sleep all night.

krgarson · November 2012

The reason this is such a huge topic is because if you have ever had a child that makes you so sleep deprived, night after night, month after month, to the point where you can barely function, and you can't be a good mom, or wife, then you resort to CIO. And it works. And then you have a happy mom, happy household, happy baby. It isn't about making your baby cry, it is about making them LEARN to fall asleep without an aid, such as their Mom. My first child didn't sleep through the night for 3 years and after gong down the same road with my second, I literally could not do it again, and neither could my husband. We did CIO and we have a happy family that all goes to bed now in their own room.

eatmorecupcakes · November 2012

LalaMama81:
noahchristopher:
I have a question to Sunny Muffin. And please, I don't mean to be disrespectful, because you in no way have been. I just read "peaceful parenting" in the web address and it begs the question......

Many families pre-CIO live anything but peaceful lives because of sleep disruptions and sleep problems. I myself can attest to that. I also wonder how peaceful parenting is when your child continues to cry with regard to sleep well into the toddler years. This is vs. those who choose CIO, have a week or two tops of "unpeacefulness" and then for the most part, have a very peaceful household from then on out. With of course occasional bumps with sickness and teething and developmental milestones.

I would argue that utilizing CIO may actually be a more peaceful way to parent in the long run. And I say this also from direct observations of close friends and family members who are anti-CIO, who have disruptive households for years.

Just my opinion.
Again, you make so many assumptions. Not every family that doesn't sleep train or CIO has a miserable existence where no one is sleeping. This also doesn't mean they have some super-sleeping-baby that never wakes up.
Sleep training is not the only way to help teach your child developmentally appropriate ways to sleep.
I really don't care what anyone else does, even if I don't agree with them. I have chosen not to use CIO methods of sleep training. A big part of that is that it doesn't follow my instincts. It is important to me to "listen to my gut," so to speak. If it feels wrong, it probably is. That doesn't mean I don't have the "gumption" to do it or that I'm harming my child by not doing it.

THIS exactly. We didn't do any type of sleep training other than responding to what it was we thought our child needed. Now at almost 16 months, he is sleeping from 6:30pm - 7am with no wakes up. In his own bed. (because "his own bed" is what worked best for him)

Sure we have a rough night here and there, but even as adults don't we still have those nights that for whatever reason it is hard to fall asleep? I certainly wouldn't call it chaos. It happens.

Smootchy · November 2012

chaps was here

JumpingJudahBean · November 2012

SunnyMuffin:

OP:
https://www.facebook.com/peacefulparenting

This page was started upon request by DrMomma.org readers and serves as a location of support and empowerment for these individuals. Therefore, it serves as a 'safe space' for those striving to parent peacefully. It is not another pop culture parenting page for myths, propaganda and uninformed attacks.

As such, there are a few violent/aggressive items that are not allowed on the peaceful parenting page:

1) The ridicule or mockery of the normal feeding of human young of any age. All mammals are designed to consume the milk of their own species, and breastfeeding is supported and celebrated here for babies of all ages - both in public and private spheres.

2) The advocacy, propaganda or pushing of any form of sexual assault, including, but not limited to genital cutting of any minor, female and male genital mutilation.

3) The advocacy, propaganda or pushing of any form of infant or child abuse and/or neglect, including, but not limited to leaving a baby to cry by him/her self, 'sleep training', and various forms of physical, emotional, mental and social maltreatment.

People like you give AP a bad name. FFS is right. Sexual assault? Genital Mutilation? Abuse/Neglect?

You can have opinions about parenting fine, but the only one promoting propaganda, is you.

NotSharknado · November 2012

This shouldn't have turned into a CIO debate. OP is a judgmental snatch. CIO out or not, you don't come on a parenting forum full of mothers who have different parenting styles than yours and label them as cowards and cruel. However, calling someone weak for not doing CIO is just as bad as the OP.

SunnyMuffin · November 2012

justAphase:
SunnyMuffin:
noahchristopher:
I have a question to Sunny Muffin. And please, I don't mean to be disrespectful, because you in no way have been. I just read "peaceful parenting" in the web address and it begs the question......

Many families pre-CIO live anything but peaceful lives because of sleep disruptions and sleep problems. I myself can attest to that. I also wonder how peaceful parenting is when your child continues to cry with regard to sleep well into the toddler years. This is vs. those who choose CIO, have a week or two tops of "unpeacefulness" and then for the most part, have a very peaceful household from then on out. With of course occasional bumps with sickness and teething and developmental milestones.

I would argue that utilizing CIO may actually be a more peaceful way to parent in the long run. And I say this also from direct observations of close friends and family members who are anti-CIO, who have disruptive households for years.

Just my opinion.
I obviously am no parenting expert but I think you should just do what makes your baby happy. I swaddled/nursed/rocked my baby to sleep until he was 8 or 9 months, at that point he stopped falling asleep while eating and I just put him in his crib awake to sleep. There was never really any crying. From what I understand, parents of fussy babies just need to take a different approach.. like letting your baby be close to you and sleep with you at night. If your baby is crying every couple hours for food, just let them sleep near you and they can nurse whenever they want. That way everyone can enjoy a good nights sleep.

If my next baby were to be fussier, I'd get a bigger bed and co-sleep instead of getting up to feed my baby, or leaving him to cry to train him to sleep all night.
Based on how seemingly easy your child was, you have absolutely no right to judge those who had the exact opposite. I tried cosleeping, guess what? I still didn't get any sleep due to a 1 year old kicking me in the face. And I have a king sized bed. I coslept for a year until I was depressed and hazy all day due to sleep deprivation. How dare you judge moms for doing the best they could for their family, seriously. Eff off.

hey hey now, i'm not judging. I didn't come in here and call you all shitty parents. The girl was threatening to leave, I told her one (of several) better places to go. I do agree its kind of strange to come in here and be like "i'm so glad to be away from all those 6-12month assholes, but wait, you guys are assholes too". I wasn't expecting that part, lol

SunnyMuffin · November 2012

JumpingJudahBean:
SunnyMuffin:

OP:
https://www.facebook.com/peacefulparenting

This page was started upon request by DrMomma.org readers and serves as a location of support and empowerment for these individuals. Therefore, it serves as a 'safe space' for those striving to parent peacefully. It is not another pop culture parenting page for myths, propaganda and uninformed attacks.

As such, there are a few violent/aggressive items that are not allowed on the peaceful parenting page:

1) The ridicule or mockery of the normal feeding of human young of any age. All mammals are designed to consume the milk of their own species, and breastfeeding is supported and celebrated here for babies of all ages - both in public and private spheres.

2) The advocacy, propaganda or pushing of any form of sexual assault, including, but not limited to genital cutting of any minor, female and male genital mutilation.

3) The advocacy, propaganda or pushing of any form of infant or child abuse and/or neglect, including, but not limited to leaving a baby to cry by him/her self, 'sleep training', and various forms of physical, emotional, mental and social maltreatment.

People like you give AP a bad name. FFS is right. Sexual assault? Genital Mutilation? Abuse/Neglect?

You can have opinions about parenting fine, but the only one promoting propaganda, is you.

well... if its not genital mutilation, then what is it?

SunnyMuffin · November 2012

hey, I didn't make the group or the rules, and 60,000 women happen to agree with it, not just myself

NotSharknado · November 2012

Whatever happened to the phrase "You do your job and I'll do mine"? Bottom line, who cares how other people raise their kids? Worry about your own. It's really a simple concept.

Blondangel · November 2012

SunnyMuffin:
hey, I didn't make the group or the rules, and 60,000 women happen to agree with it, not just myself

Yeah but you posted it here! In a thread about CIO and a bunch of people who did it successfully.

BTW, I checked out the FB group and from what I could tell you and the OP would fit in perfectly. A bunch of uninformed, uber-judgemental, intolerant women who get together to bash other forms of parenting and perpetuate misinformation. Nice.

SunnyMuffin · November 2012

Blondangel:
SunnyMuffin:
hey, I didn't make the group or the rules, and 60,000 women happen to agree with it, not just myself
Yeah but you posted it here! In a thread about CIO and a bunch of people who did it successfully.
BTW, I checked out the FB group and from what I could tell you and the OP would fit in perfectly. A bunch of uninformed, uber-judgemental, intolerant women who get together to bash other forms of parenting and perpetuate misinformation. Nice.

that's not what the op intended this thread to be, I'm positive. And I agree, awesome group!

Blondangel · November 2012

SunnyMuffin:
Blondangel:
SunnyMuffin:
hey, I didn't make the group or the rules, and 60,000 women happen to agree with it, not just myself
Yeah but you posted it here! In a thread about CIO and a bunch of people who did it successfully.
BTW, I checked out the FB group and from what I could tell you and the OP would fit in perfectly. A bunch of uninformed, uber-judgemental, intolerant women who get together to bash other forms of parenting and perpetuate misinformation. Nice.
that's not what the op intended this thread to be, I'm positive. And I agree, awesome group!

So are you unusually dense or just BSC?

chardonnay24 · November 2012

SunnyMuffin:

I obviously am no parenting expert but I think you should just do what makes your baby happy. I swaddled/nursed/rocked my baby to sleep until he was 8 or 9 months, at that point he stopped falling asleep while eating and I just put him in his crib awake to sleep. There was never really any crying. From what I understand, parents of fussy babies just need to take a different approach.. like letting your baby be close to you and sleep with you at night. If your baby is crying every couple hours for food, just let them sleep near you and they can nurse whenever they want. That way everyone can enjoy a good nights sleep.

If my next baby were to be fussier, I'd get a bigger bed and co-sleep instead of getting up to feed my baby, or leaving him to cry to train him to sleep all night.

You are ridiculous. I was just going to ignore that FB group you posted because, well, people that think that sleep training = neglect are idiots.

But, come on. You clearly had an easy baby. I swaddled, rocked, cuddled, and fed on demand as well. He stopped eating at night on his own at 5 months. But then, he stopped sleeping. STOPPED SLEEPING. We didn't get broken sleep, we go no sleep. Whenever we were in the room, he was ready to party. We rocked, he struggled. We snuggled, he fought it. We coslept, and he pushed away and crawled over us and off the bed. We resorted to driving at night to get him to sleep, and he would sleep in the car but only in the car, so we weren't getting any sleep. He was sick all the time, lost his appetite, and eventually lost weight. He cried all the time. There was absolutely nothing we could do to get him to sleep, so we turned to Ferber. He is a high energy baby, and he needed to work it all out to fall asleep, and he needed to do it alone. It took about 3 days of less than 20 minutes of fussing and he was STTN and continues to do so. But you're right, I clearly wasn't responding to his needs or doing what made him happy. If only I had rocked him, that would have fixed everything. Or I could have let him crawl all over my bedroom at night until he eventually became so sick from exhaustion that he ended up in the hospital.

I can't even stand the ignorance.

SunnyMuffin · November 2012

I'm not really saying that you are neglecting your kids, b/c I get that it works sometimes. I let my kid cry when he's overtired or having a toddler tantrum. It just sounded like she was feeling disheartened with all the CIO posts and I thought she might like some different websites.

The Mothering.com website has really good forums as well. I dont really have time to post but I like browsing the different topics

https://www.mothering.com/community/f/

sleepingbeauty825 · November 2012

Does is make you more or less of an awesome parent to take a shot for every ten minutes they're crying?

LMK.

Wufroggy79 · November 2012

Um, don't read the posts?

MrsGoodkat · November 2012

SunnyMuffin:
I'm not really saying that you are neglecting your kids, b/c I get that it works sometimes. I let my kid cry when he's overtired or having a toddler tantrum. It just sounded like she was feeling disheartened with all the CIO posts and I thought she might like some different websites.
The Mothering.com website has really good forums as well. I dont really have time to post but I like browsing the different topics
https://www.mothering.com/community/f/

So it's okay when you do it during the day, I assume, but not at night when the baby is ridiculously overtired and the only thing that will actually make them feel better is falling asleep.

I'm so glad I didn't have an easy baby first because I fear I'd be a judge-y sanctimommy, too, if I couldn't empathize with what other mothers are going through and understand that what works for me may not work for someone else.

SoxFan777 · November 2012

LalaMama81:
CLL1001:

Have you ever even read any of the "CIO" books? I'm assuming you haven't because if you were at all informed about what these CIO methods are all about then you wouldn't have written this post.

It is not about just leaving your child to cry and cry until they vomit and/or fall alseep on their own. You go in at intervals so they know you are still there if they need you...you lay them down drowsy but awake and go back in after 3 min, 5 min, 7 min, etc. until they LEARN to fall alseep on their own.

We did the ferber method (and I read the book) when DD was around 7 months old because she was waking every 1-2 hours through the night which was making her absolutely miserable all day every day because she was so tired. I personally would rather go through a little bit of crying for a few days so that I have a happy child in the long run. If you read others experiences you can see that most of the time the process takes less than a week...in our case it was 3 days...the first night DD cried for 45 min TOTAL (remember, intervals), 2nd night 30 minutes, 3rd night 20 minutes, 4th night I didn't have to go in because she just whimpered a little bit and fell right to sleep and slept through the night!

I can't speak for anyone else but when my DD is crying or fussing I know the difference between when she is in pain and when she is just fussing. Especially now that she's been sleeping well for the past 6 months or so if she wakes up crying then I definately know somethings wrong and I go in and help her.

Sorry if I rambled on but basically to sum it up...try informing yourself a little bit before judging others on their ways of parenting...

I don't necessarily agree w/ the OP, but I will say that some people, myself included, are not fans of CIO, period. To me it's doesn't matter whether it's Ferber or Weissbluth, extinction or graduated. I don't like it and I won't do it. It doesn't fit w/ my parenting style and it goes against my instincts.

I'm not saying the OP is fully informed, I have no idea if she is. I am fairly informed and still have no interest in CIO.

To the OP, I generally ignore CIO posts. I only comment if someone feels uncomfortable doing it and is wondering if they still should (No!) or if someone is thinking about doing it w/ a baby under 6 months. I think when you don't like something, you notice it more.

I agree with this 100%... Very well put and succinct. I don't understand why people insist that every baby will eventually need CIO. It goes against my instincts, too. I get really mad when "experienced" (or more experienced, I suppose) moms give me a condescending look and say "you'll do it eventually".

To the OP... why don't you try the attachment parenting board? Generally, AP-style parents are against CIO (not always). Also, read BEYOND THE SLING... I loved it even though I don't agree with EVERYTHING she said. She's super well informed, though.

PurpleDrewbie5 · November 2012

SoxFan777:
LalaMama81:
CLL1001:

Have you ever even read any of the "CIO" books? I'm assuming you haven't because if you were at all informed about what these CIO methods are all about then you wouldn't have written this post.

It is not about just leaving your child to cry and cry until they vomit and/or fall alseep on their own. You go in at intervals so they know you are still there if they need you...you lay them down drowsy but awake and go back in after 3 min, 5 min, 7 min, etc. until they LEARN to fall alseep on their own.

We did the ferber method (and I read the book) when DD was around 7 months old because she was waking every 1-2 hours through the night which was making her absolutely miserable all day every day because she was so tired. I personally would rather go through a little bit of crying for a few days so that I have a happy child in the long run. If you read others experiences you can see that most of the time the process takes less than a week...in our case it was 3 days...the first night DD cried for 45 min TOTAL (remember, intervals), 2nd night 30 minutes, 3rd night 20 minutes, 4th night I didn't have to go in because she just whimpered a little bit and fell right to sleep and slept through the night!

I can't speak for anyone else but when my DD is crying or fussing I know the difference between when she is in pain and when she is just fussing. Especially now that she's been sleeping well for the past 6 months or so if she wakes up crying then I definately know somethings wrong and I go in and help her.

Sorry if I rambled on but basically to sum it up...try informing yourself a little bit before judging others on their ways of parenting...

I don't necessarily agree w/ the OP, but I will say that some people, myself included, are not fans of CIO, period. To me it's doesn't matter whether it's Ferber or Weissbluth, extinction or graduated. I don't like it and I won't do it. It doesn't fit w/ my parenting style and it goes against my instincts.

I'm not saying the OP is fully informed, I have no idea if she is. I am fairly informed and still have no interest in CIO.

To the OP, I generally ignore CIO posts. I only comment if someone feels uncomfortable doing it and is wondering if they still should (No!) or if someone is thinking about doing it w/ a baby under 6 months. I think when you don't like something, you notice it more.

To the OP... why don't you try the attachment parenting board? Generally, AP-style parents are against CIO (not always).

Because she's not AP she's JP (judgey parent.) Seriously, CIO works for some families and not for others. To the OP-get off of your high horse and realize that you may not have all of the answers.

FYI We tried CIO, it didn't work and I hated it. Slowly my kid is learning to sleep for longer stretches. If CIO works for you, awesome. If it is not for you, that's okay too. Be a decent empathetic person and stop judging other parents for doing what works for them.

MrsGoodkat · November 2012

SoxFan777:

I agree with this 100%... Very well put and succinct. I don't understand why people insist that every baby will eventually need CIO. It goes against my instincts, too. I get really mad when "experienced" (or more experienced, I suppose) moms give me a condescending look and say "you'll do it eventually".

I'm pretty sure no one is insisting that every baby needs to CIO, just that some babies do.

grr_aargh · November 2012

LOL. Oh, this post. I just love this conversation. It warms the cockles of my cold cold heart.

CarlaAndJames · November 2012

Honestly, I don't understand how parents can let their child get to 2 years old and still not be willing to step in and teach them how to fall asleep and stay asleep. They need sleep, just like they need food and water.

smilelari · November 2012

I haven't read this whole thread, but just have to jump into the fun.

I'm not a fan of CIO, but it's also not evil. Just not my style.

There are certainly ways to sleep train that don't involve crying. And, if you do have some tears with sleep, crying with a parent is completely different from CIO alone.

Many, many sleep problems are related to overtired kids, and that problem should be solved before doing sleep training. Get that baby caught up on sleep (including naps) and sleep problems tend to magically disappear without sleep training.

I have read Ferber's book, and he actually does advocate letting babies cry until they vomit.

DaisyJanie · November 2012

mesmom2011:

I can't imagine why I'd read a book that instructs parents to do something that I think is wrong.

I think we've gotten to the bottom of it right here - you say in your title that you don't understand, but clearly you don't want to understand. So, moving on, nothing to see here.

SunnyMuffin · November 2012

I want to know why the op abandoned this thread, It sucks now, lol

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