moms choosing not to vaccinate

pennyandandy · November 2012

cs1225:
NatesLady1309:
sooner1981:
justadogmommy:
we don't vaccinate and I love my baby very much. I have researched it heavily and am also a pediatric nurse and have been one for 15 years. I have seen some devastating effects from vaccines and have also taken care of pertussis babies in the nicu. all survived. I know it's a risk but I'd rather take the risk of disease and body's natural immunity and ability to fight then the risk of all the ingredients put in vaccines. if u believe in the vaccines so much why worry about anti vax kids. do you actually think government would admit vaccines cause autism? I don't think so. mass panic and all that money lost for big pharma. it is a parent right and personal choice what goes in our babies bodies. I don't judge any one's judgement to vax or not.

I am glad you don't judge my decision to vaccinate my child. But, that doesn't mean that I feel bad judging your decision. Not on this important issue. I don't care when you put your kid to bed at night. Or whether you do CIO or allow them to wake up 5 times a night until they are 5 years old. Or whether you do BLW or feed them purees as their first foods. But I do have a problem with a blank anti-immunization decision based on "the ingredients in a vaccine" and your personal experience with a few babies with pertussis. So, I guess in real life we wouldn't be friends--oh well.
. Justadogmommy, stick to your guns and do what you believe is right based on your research to the best of your ability. Don't let her make you feel stupid. I respect your decision.
To me, it doesn't sound like she has done much research. She is just using anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone who does research can still see a link to autism.

This. NL, do you vaccinate Your DD?

cs1225 · November 2012

NatesLady1309:
cs1225:
To me, it doesn't sound like she has done much research. She is just using anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone who does research can still see a link to autism.
. I understand about the autism thing. But regardless, every parent has the right to make this important vaccine decision for their child and I choose to respect a parent's decision on the matter regardless of what that decision is.

On most decisions, I whole heartedly agree with you. But, with this decision, she is putting others at risk. Vaccines do not work for everyone and some cannot get them. They depend on herd immunity. People opting out are causing outbreaks. and, working in a hospital would make me want vaccines even more. She works with people that are sick and probably brings this home to her own child. I just will never understand this mindset.

fredpuma · November 2012

NatesLady1309:
cs1225:
To me, it doesn't sound like she has done much research. She is just using anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone who does research can still see a link to autism.
. I understand about the autism thing. But regardless, every parent has the right to make this important vaccine decision for their child and I choose to respect a parent's decision on the matter regardless of what that decision is.

livinginashoe · November 2012

NatesLady1309:
cs1225:
To me, it doesn't sound like she has done much research. She is just using anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone who does research can still see a link to autism.
. I understand about the autism thing. But regardless, every parent has the right to make this important vaccine decision for their child and I choose to respect a parent's decision on the matter regardless of what that decision is.

https://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/you-are-so-dumb.gif" border="0" />

trying again.

lancyjo · November 2012

livinginashoe:
NatesLady1309:
cs1225:
To me, it doesn't sound like she has done much research. She is just using anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone who does research can still see a link to autism.
. I understand about the autism thing. But regardless, every parent has the right to make this important vaccine decision for their child and I choose to respect a parent's decision on the matter regardless of what that decision is.
https://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/you-are-so-dumb.gif" border="0" />

Shoe! Finally! I've been missing you!!

livinginashoe · November 2012

Dammit to heIl, somebody fix my gif, please. NL and the dogs mom really need to see it.

Kthanksbye

update- I think I got it now? Lmk

fredpuma · November 2012

NatesLady1309:
cs1225:
To me, it doesn't sound like she has done much research. She is just using anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone who does research can still see a link to autism.
. I understand about the autism thing. But regardless, every parent has the right to make this important vaccine decision for their child and I choose to respect a parent's decision on the matter regardless of what that decision is.

it's also every moms right to decide to get wasted every night while pregnant, refuse prenatal care and eat only bacon for the whole third trimester. Could you respect that mom's decision? Please, please stick your foot in your mouth and say yes.

MrsLindinger0905 · November 2012

livinginashoe:
Dammit to heIl, somebody fix my gif, please. NL and the dogs mom really need to see it.
Kthanksbye

Here ya go

pennyandandy · November 2012

Shoe, I love that gif so much! And we missed you.

livinginashoe · November 2012

Nice to know I've been missed. I promise to be back in a week or so. Work has been very busy, but it's just that time of year. I miss you ladies, too.

sp212 · November 2012

NatesLady1309:
cs1225:
To me, it doesn't sound like she has done much research. She is just using anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone who does research can still see a link to autism.
. I understand about the autism thing. But regardless, every parent has the right to make this important vaccine decision for their child and I choose to respect a parent's decision on the matter regardless of what that decision is.

lmao. You respect a mom's decision to put their child's life at risk but don't respect their decision to work? I am guessing that you also don't vaccinate.

MeganSony · November 2012

I require vaccination for my home daycare. I would turn anyone away without it. I am beyond pro vaccine. Gabriel has had all of his on schedule and will continue to. He gets his flu shot tomorrow along with me.

I am at a loss for words when people choose not to protect their children. But it downright pisses me off when they put my son at risk.

pennyandandy · November 2012

livinginashoe:
Nice to know I've been missed. I promise to be back in a week or so. Work has been very busy, but it's just that time of year. I miss you ladies, too.

Shucks, shoe, you missed us? I just got a little tear in my eye.

livinginashoe · November 2012

Where else am I going to have this much fun laughing at all the stupid on a Sunday night?

sp212 · November 2012

livinginashoe:
NatesLady1309:
cs1225:
To me, it doesn't sound like she has done much research. She is just using anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone who does research can still see a link to autism.
. I understand about the autism thing. But regardless, every parent has the right to make this important vaccine decision for their child and I choose to respect a parent's decision on the matter regardless of what that decision is.
https://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/you-are-so-dumb.gif" border="0" />

trying again.

I love this gif! I loved the song mix of this news cast too. "Hide yo kids! Hide yo wife! And hide yo husband!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtZfW2z9dw

msumjll · November 2012

100% on the get vaccinated side!

Jen0204 · November 2012

Thanks for the information on the chicken pox vaccine. That's the most common one thrown out there as an example of a needless vaccine so I wanted to ask about it when the time came but now I don't need to. They'll definitely get it.

The reason why saying that vaccines are bad because of the potential deadly side effects isn't a good argument is because virtually everything in life has the potential for a bad result. At my college a few years back a girl crossing the street in a crosswalk was hit and killed - should we not use crosswalks? Look at seat belts - there is the possibility of getting into an accident where if you were ejected from the car you would survive, but if you were belted in you could have ended up dying - does that mean we shouldn't use seat belts? Vaccines are another safety measure for us to use to help protect our children, much like we will force them to wear seat belts and teach them to use crosswalks. Sure, something can go wrong. But the sad realiy is that we have no way of knowing what our children will be allergic to until they encounter something that they have a reaction to. As Haylie has pointed out numerous times, every single drug that you will ever give your child or ingest yourself - OTC or prescription - will be accompanied with a list of potential side effects. Baby Tylenol has a risk of liver failure, yet it is an extremely common medication that most of us have probably given our babies.

Also, it really scares me that a pediatric nurse believes in conspiracy theories with medicine. I can't imagine going through all of that schooling and reading up on all of the research and coming out believing that put government is intentionally perpetuating autism. Thank goodness that I didn't encounter nurses like this during the girls' NICU stay.

Shmogan09 · November 2012

noryang:
For me - it is not IF to vaccinate but WHEN to vaccinate. We do not vaccinate for diseases that she is at extremely low to zero risk of contracting for her first few years (such as Hep and we are not vaccinating for diseases to which the disease is mild in young children and we prefer natural immunity (rotovirus, chicken pox). We will eventually vaccinate for these as she enters upper elementary/middle school. We absolutely vax for polio, TDP, etc. As she gets older we will likely vaccinate for things most of you never have to think about - rabies, typhoid, yellow fever.

We do spread all of her vaccines out so that she never receives more than one needle at a time before six months of age and she will never get more than two needles at a time while I am making the decisions. (I say needles because many vaxes have more than one vaccine in them). I really believe this 4-7 vaccines at one time is some serious BS and waaaaay too much for their little systems.

I also think it is naive and ridiculous to think that a vaccinate guarentees immunity. Some have a better track record than others. But I truly believe that presenting vaccinations as a foolproof method of disease prevention is dangerous.

This is pretty much the same as us. We do not do rotavirus, pneumococcal or chicken pox. My pedi said the first two aren't necessary and I have chosen not to do chicken pox after my friends daughter got them after the vaccine. She got them BAD. I don't want to give it to him if he could just get them anyways. (Although after reading sooners post I will be looking into the shingles thing. My sister has them and she was told that getting the vaccine increases risk of shingles. I'll be asking my pedi about that one.)

For the rest, the same as Nory. We do one stick per visit and then I go back in between visits so he is never really behind for more than a few weeks to a month.

I am the one paying for the extra copays to go in more often so I don't really care if anyone judges my scedule. This is just what I am comfortable with. Not because of some "vaccinesareevil.com" website, just because it feels right to me.

I vaccinate, just not so many at each appt.

sooner1981 · November 2012

Shmogan09:

This is pretty much the same as us. We do not do rotavirus, pneumococcal or chicken pox. My pedi said the first two aren't necessary and I have chosen not to do chicken pox after my friends daughter got them after the vaccine. She got them BAD. I don't want to give it to him if he could just get them anyways. (Although after reading sooners post I will be looking into the shingles thing. My sister has them and she was told that getting the vaccine increases risk of shingles. I'll be asking my pedi about that one.)

Just for the record--the vaccine in no way, no how, not even a little bit connected to an increased risk of shingles. The vaccine, if effective in your child's body, causes your child to never be infected with the herpes zoster virus. If the virus is never introduced into your body, it can't cause an outbreak of shingles later on in life. What your sister is talking about is that people who have already contracted chicken pox in their childhood could very possibly be more likely to get shingles later in life if they are not continually re-exposed to kiddos with chicken pox every few years. Scientists think that re-exposure to the chicken pox virus for adults who have already contracted chicken pox as children acts as a semi "booster shot" in suppressing the potential for later shingles outbreaks.

So, there is some speculation that an increase in children vaccinations for chicken pox will mean that less children are out there spreading the virus around, so more already-exposed adults might lose the contact with the virus that may have some protective effects in their body's suppression of the virus. There is no evidence that the above hypothesis is true, but it is something that researchers are studying. Even if the above were true, however, the "increased risk of shingles" would only be in the nonvaccinated group of older individuals who had already contracted chicken pox as children and who now are not receiving any immune boosters by being around children with new cases of chicken pox. The increase risk has nothing to do with the children who are receiving the vaccine--their risk is virtually nil, since without the initial infection, the shingles outbreak cannot occur.

hayliedc · November 2012

Jen0204:
Thanks for the information on the chicken pox vaccine. That's the most common one thrown out there as an example of a needless vaccine so I wanted to ask about it when the time came but now I don't need to. They'll definitely get it.The reason why saying that vaccines are bad because of the potential deadly side effects isn't a good argument is because virtually everything in life has the potential for a bad result. At my college a few years back a girl crossing the street in a crosswalk was hit and killed should we not use crosswalks? Look at seat belts there is the possibility of getting into an accident where if you were ejected from the car you would survive, but if you were belted in you could have ended up dying does that mean we shouldn't use seat belts? Vaccines are another safety measure for us to use to help protect our children, much like we will force them to wear seat belts and teach them to use crosswalks. Sure, something can go wrong. But the sad realiy is that we have no way of knowing what our children will be allergic to until they encounter something that they have a reaction to. As Haylie has pointed out numerous times, every single drug that you will ever give your child or ingest yourself OTC or prescription will be accompanied with a list of potential side effects. Baby Tylenol has a risk of liver failure, yet it is an extremely common medication that most of us have probably given our babies.nbsp;Also, it really scares me that a pediatric nurse believes in conspiracy theories with medicine. I can't imagine going through all of that schooling and reading up on all of the research and coming out believing that put government is intentionally perpetuating autism. Thank goodness that I didn't encounter nurses like this during the girls' NICU stay.nbsp;

Thanks Jen for responding to my post! No one has answered my question still. I thought I was the only one who could see my post...now I know they just don't HAVE an answer

pinkshades05 · November 2012

I know some people are really passionate about this topic, but there is so much fear around vaccinating and not vaccinating. You take risks with both sides and hope that your child is in the majority that is fine. Obviously the chances of a severe reaction is slim, but to that parent whose child has a reaction it's like the risks were 100 percent instead of 0.001. And when you hear of a few instances like this the chances seem more like 50 percent. We tend to remember the one bad experience out of the ten thousand good ones. I know that getting vaccinated should be an easy decision, but I can imagine that when you are surrounded by bad experiences that will have more of an impression than anything else.

Okay, please don't jump all over me! I'm just trying to see things from the other side!

sooner1981 · November 2012

pinkshades05:
I know some people are really passionate about this topic, but there is so much fear around vaccinating and not vaccinating. You take risks with both sides and hope that your child is in the majority that is fine. Obviously the chances of a severe reaction is slim, but to that parent whose child has a reaction it's like the risks were 100 percent instead of 0.001. And when you hear of a few instances like this the chances seem more like 50 percent. We tend to remember the one bad experience out of the ten thousand good ones. I know that getting vaccinated should be an easy decision, but I can imagine that when you are surrounded by bad experiences that will have more of an impression than anything else. Okay, please don't jump all over me! I'm just trying to see things from the other side!

I understand that you are trying to see both sides, but the above-bolded statement is not really a fair argument for not vaccinating your child.

That is like saying that there might be some miniscule risk that you may get killed while walking out to get your mail from the mailbox because you heard of that happening once on the news, but that there are also some well-known risks in skydiving without a parachute. So since you are still going to take the risk to go get your mail from your mailbox, you might as well also skydive sans a parachute. The risks in the two scenarios are not the same--and trying to compare the risks as similar is just too bizarre for words. The risk of your child suffering a serious vaccine injury is very, very low. The risk of your child catching a immunizable illness (or of your child passing along such an illness to a younger child or immunosuppresed person) is much higher than the risk of a vaccine injury--especially if you encourage your friends and family to also prevent their kiddos from getting these vaccines.

I can see two sides of a lot of arguments--heck, that is part of my job description. But, for the life of me, I just can't see two sides to the vaccine wars.

pinkshades05 · November 2012

sooner1981:

I understand what you are trying to see both sides, but the abovebolded statement is not really a fair argument for not vaccinating your child.

I didn't follow your analogy very well but that could be because I'm really tired. I know what you are saying and as moms I do understand being scared to death of something going wrong with your child either way.

Does it mean risking them getting a horrible disease? No, I agree with you 100 percent that it doesn't. I had viral meningitis when I was a week old. The vaccine that protects against the most common strains was well worth it. But not everyone hears enough of the good things about vaccines to ward off their fears; things like not having seen certain illnesses since the vaccine came out. Instead we hear horror stories that stick in our minds and make us hold our babies closer. It feels like a gamble even when it really isn't.

NatesLady1309 · November 2012

pennyandandy:
cs1225:
NatesLady1309:
sooner1981:
justadogmommy:
we don't vaccinate and I love my baby very much. I have researched it heavily and am also a pediatric nurse and have been one for 15 years. I have seen some devastating effects from vaccines and have also taken care of pertussis babies in the nicu. all survived. I know it's a risk but I'd rather take the risk of disease and body's natural immunity and ability to fight then the risk of all the ingredients put in vaccines. if u believe in the vaccines so much why worry about anti vax kids. do you actually think government would admit vaccines cause autism? I don't think so. mass panic and all that money lost for big pharma. it is a parent right and personal choice what goes in our babies bodies. I don't judge any one's judgement to vax or not.

I am glad you don't judge my decision to vaccinate my child. But, that doesn't mean that I feel bad judging your decision. Not on this important issue. I don't care when you put your kid to bed at night. Or whether you do CIO or allow them to wake up 5 times a night until they are 5 years old. Or whether you do BLW or feed them purees as their first foods. But I do have a problem with a blank anti-immunization decision based on "the ingredients in a vaccine" and your personal experience with a few babies with pertussis. So, I guess in real life we wouldn't be friends--oh well.
. Justadogmommy, stick to your guns and do what you believe is right based on your research to the best of your ability. Don't let her make you feel stupid. I respect your decision.
To me, it doesn't sound like she has done much research. She is just using anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone who does research can still see a link to autism.
This. NL, do you vaccinate Your DD?

We do almost all vaccines. She will not be getting the Hep B at all, at least not as a little kid. We also skipped the Rotavirus vaccine. I thought 3 doses for something that she's only at the highest risk for until she's 8 months was unjustified (NOT flaming anyone who got this AT ALL, that is just a personal decision I made). It is not recommended that they start getting that vaccine after they are something like 16 weeks old anyway so it's no longer on the table anyway. The Polio I was a little unsure about as well and I declined it during her first round of shots but decided I was comfortable with her getting it once she went in for her 2nd round of shots so since she's "behind schedule" she will be getting just the Polio vax at her 9 mo appt to get the 3rd dose in. So that's what we've done with it. But I definitely did a lot of reading before making my choices. Vaccines in general still make me nervous, and I really do understand some parents not getting their child vaccinated at all. I would certainly not "not allow my child to play with them." That's taking it too far to me.

I know multiple people who do not vaccinate at all and I don't judge them for it. I think they have made an informed decision. That decision is different than mine but that's OK. They are doing what they think is best for their child's health. I can't knock that.

However, I know one lady who not only doesn't vaccinate her child at all (her LO is ~6 months), she also has NEVER taken her child for a checkup of ANY KIND. She had a homebirth (NOT knocking homebirths at all) so her child has literally never been checked out by a medical doctor, only by a midwife (NOT knocking midwives at all either but they are not MDs). This just seems crazy to me. Even if you don't vaccinate, there's no harm in a CHECK-UP, lady. That one got to me. The real kicker- her DH currently has Whooping Cough and she's freaking out that her kid is going to get it.

sunnyday016 · November 2012

We're a 100% pro vax family. We vax on the regular schedule, but I have no problem with people delaying them so their LOs aren't getting a bunch of pokes at once.

NatesLady1309 · November 2012

Jen0204:
Thanks for the information on the chicken pox vaccine. That's the most common one thrown out there as an example of a needless vaccine so I wanted to ask about it when the time came but now I don't need to. They'll definitely get it.

It seems like quite the double standard to me to say that you will "definitely get it" for your girls now based on Sooner's anecdotal evidence (her story of her struggle with shingles), and yet it has been said during this "debate" that if someone chooses NOT to get a vaccine based on anecdotal evidence, then they are basically just stupid and haven't done their research and really understood the facts...?

runrinserepeat · November 2012

NatesLady1309:
Jen0204:

Thanks for the information on the chicken pox vaccine. That's the most common one thrown out there as an example of a needless vaccine so I wanted to ask about it when the time came but now I don't need to. They'll definitely get it.

It seems like quite the double standard to me to say that you will "definitely get it" for your girls now based on Sooner's anecdotal evidence (her story of her struggle with shingles), and yet it has been said during this "debate" that if someone chooses NOT to get a vaccine based on anecdotal evidence, then they are basically just stupid and haven't done their research and really understood the facts...?

I can't speak for Jen, but I think that she's likely basing it on Sooner's assertion that you can get shingles if you have chicken pox, and you can't get shingles if you don't ever have chicken pox. Sooner did add the anecdote that she had shingles and it sucked (I have my own anecdotes about that, but I'll refrain), but that was supplementary to the facts that she provided.

The problem with this is that it affects us all. You mentioned below that you think it's taking it too far to not let my vaxed daughter play with her unvaxed cousins. But you need to understand, her unvaxed cousins could get her very, very sick, even though she has been vaxed.

This is why people get so up in arms about it. Whether you CD or use disposable doesn't affect me in the slightest. But if your kid isn't vaxed, that affects us all.

DH and I were talking a while ago about how weird/neat it is that we might be the last generation that had chicken pox, for the most part. I already mentioned that my grandpa suffered through polio. To hear that, it's like, "wow, he's old, he must have grown up a long time ago". I really hope that's what my kids think when they hear that I had the chicken pox as a kid.

NatesLady1309 · November 2012

kleMcK:
NatesLady1309:
Jen0204:

Thanks for the information on the chicken pox vaccine. That's the most common one thrown out there as an example of a needless vaccine so I wanted to ask about it when the time came but now I don't need to. They'll definitely get it.

It seems like quite the double standard to me to say that you will "definitely get it" for your girls now based on Sooner's anecdotal evidence (her story of her struggle with shingles), and yet it has been said during this "debate" that if someone chooses NOT to get a vaccine based on anecdotal evidence, then they are basically just stupid and haven't done their research and really understood the facts...?

I can't speak for Jen, but I think that she's likely basing it on Sooner's assertion that you can get shingles if you have chicken pox, and you can't get shingles if you don't ever have chicken pox. Sooner did add the anecdote that she had shingles and it sucked (I have my own anecdotes about that, but I'll refrain), but that was supplementary to the facts that she provided.

The problem with this is that it affects us all. You mentioned below that you think it's taking it too far to not let my vaxed daughter play with her unvaxed cousins. But you need to understand, her unvaxed cousins could get her very, very sick, even though she has been vaxed.

This is why people get so up in arms about it. Whether you CD or use disposable doesn't affect me in the slightest. But if your kid isn't vaxed, that affects us all.

Even if she "provided the facts," does what a stranger on the internet says really provide the final evidence needed as to whether or not to get a vaccine for your child that you were previously undecided on? Playing devil's advocate obviously.

As far as the playing with unvaxed kids thing goes that you said, is it not a VERY small risk that your child could get sick from the unvaxed kids? Probably around the same risk of your child getting sick from and/or having a reaction to the vaccine they received themselves (actually asking)? It would only be a risk to your child if she was somehow unaffected by the vax she received... what is the chance of that (again, actually asking)? Plus combine that with the fact that even if she IS exposed to it by an unvaxed child because they are carrying it somehow, it does not necessarily mean that she will contract the disease just because she comes into contact with it. I forget the term from microbiology... but the pathogen they are exposed to would have to be of a large enough quantity (actual # of "germs") to actually cause them to "get" the disease as well. Additionally, her immune system MAY be able to fight it off even without the aid the vaccine was supposed to provide (in the case that it was ineffective). Again, playing devil's advocate.

Jen0204 · November 2012

Ainslie325:
NatesLady1309:
Jen0204:
Thanks for the information on the chicken pox vaccine. That's the most common one thrown out there as an example of a needless vaccine so I wanted to ask about it when the time came but now I don't need to. They'll definitely get it.
It seems like quite the double standard to me to say that you will "definitely get it" for your girls now based on Sooner's anecdotal evidence (her story of her struggle with shingles), and yet it has been said during this "debate" that if someone chooses NOT to get a vaccine based on anecdotal evidence, then they are basically just stupid and haven't done their research and really understood the facts...?
Sooner explained that vaccinating a child against chicken pox will prevent (or, at the very least, exponentially reduce the likelihood of) the underlying virus ever occurring in his or her body. As a result, this will prevent subsequent chicken pox occurrences (when the initial case was mild) or shingles in later life (since shingles is only possible if the underlying virus is in the person's system already, as would be the case with individuals who had chicken pox as children).
While Sooner did relay her personal experience, it was couched in medical fact. She shared the implications of a virus laying dormant in unvaccinated children vs. a virus--in all likelihood--being prevented from ever entering a child's system thereby reducing future risk of pox and shingles. That is the difference, since you asked. Jen's not making her decision based on anecdote.
Sorry, Jen, for speaking on your behalf. I assume this is a fair statement.

No problem, this is exactly correct. I was wondering why they need the vaccine if the chicken pox isn't a huge deal and Sooner explained the medical reason as to why it's important not to get the virus. Once she mentioned that I remember seeing commercials on TV that said that if you've had the chicken pox that you are more likely to get shingles (they were public service announcement type commercials), so what she said made sense to me and matched with what I have heard. I had assumed that there is a legitimate medical reason as to why the chicken pox vaccine is important but didn't know the reason and she explained it.

But if you would like to assume that I look to Sooner for guidance on making all medical decisions for my children that's fine. It's not the first (or last) time you'll assume something incorrect.

NatesLady1309 · November 2012

Jen0204:

But if you would like to assume that I look to Sooner for guidance on making all medical decisions for my children that's fine. It's not the first (or last) time you'll assume something incorrect.

It's hard to debate that she often comes across as being a "source of all knowledge" of sorts.

runrinserepeat · November 2012

NatesLady1309:
kleMcK:
NatesLady1309:
Jen0204:

Thanks for the information on the chicken pox vaccine. That's the most common one thrown out there as an example of a needless vaccine so I wanted to ask about it when the time came but now I don't need to. They'll definitely get it.

It seems like quite the double standard to me to say that you will "definitely get it" for your girls now based on Sooner's anecdotal evidence (her story of her struggle with shingles), and yet it has been said during this "debate" that if someone chooses NOT to get a vaccine based on anecdotal evidence, then they are basically just stupid and haven't done their research and really understood the facts...?

I can't speak for Jen, but I think that she's likely basing it on Sooner's assertion that you can get shingles if you have chicken pox, and you can't get shingles if you don't ever have chicken pox. Sooner did add the anecdote that she had shingles and it sucked (I have my own anecdotes about that, but I'll refrain), but that was supplementary to the facts that she provided.

The problem with this is that it affects us all. You mentioned below that you think it's taking it too far to not let my vaxed daughter play with her unvaxed cousins. But you need to understand, her unvaxed cousins could get her very, very sick, even though she has been vaxed.

This is why people get so up in arms about it. Whether you CD or use disposable doesn't affect me in the slightest. But if your kid isn't vaxed, that affects us all.

Even if she "provided the facts," does what a stranger on the internet says really provide the final evidence needed as to whether or not to get a vaccine for your child that you were previously undecided on? Playing devil's advocate obviously.

As far as the playing with unvaxed kids thing goes that you said, is it not a VERY small risk that your child could get sick from the unvaxed kids? Probably around the same risk of your child getting sick from and/or having a reaction to the vaccine they received themselves (actually asking)? It would only be a risk to your child if she was somehow unaffected by the vax she received... what is the chance of that (again, actually asking)? Plus combine that with the fact that even if she IS exposed to it by an unvaxed child because they are carrying it somehow, it does not necessarily mean that she will contract the disease just because she comes into contact with it. I forget the term from microbiology... but the pathogen they are exposed to would have to be of a large enough quantity (actual # of "germs") to actually cause them to "get" the disease as well. Additionally, her immune system MAY be able to fight it off even without the aid the vaccine was supposed to provide (in the case that it was ineffective). Again, playing devil's advocate.

Risks vs. Reward

Getting vaxed: extremely small chance of side effects vs. extremely good chance of protection from disease

Playing with cousin: extremely small chance of getting sick vs. ... the joy of playing with cousins?

You're right, the risks might be about even, but the benefits are not. Not even close.

As far as what Jen's decision is re: the chicken pox vaccine, whatever. All I can say is that I made the same decision that sooner has about the chicken pox vaccine for the same reasons, so what she's said here definitely resonates with me. If you don't like it, there's not much I can do. Just trying to help you understand why this is one parenting decision where I can't respect the other side, because the other side puts my child at risk.

NatesLady1309 · November 2012

Ainslie325:

Nah.

"In tonight's production, the role of 'The Devil' will be played by Sooner."

Yes

lancyjo · November 2012

kleMcK:
NatesLady1309:
Jen0204:

Thanks for the information on the chicken pox vaccine. That's the most common one thrown out there as an example of a needless vaccine so I wanted to ask about it when the time came but now I don't need to. They'll definitely get it.

It seems like quite the double standard to me to say that you will "definitely get it" for your girls now based on Sooner's anecdotal evidence (her story of her struggle with shingles), and yet it has been said during this "debate" that if someone chooses NOT to get a vaccine based on anecdotal evidence, then they are basically just stupid and haven't done their research and really understood the facts...? 

I can't speak for Jen, but I think that she's likely basing it on Sooner's assertion that you can get shingles if you have chicken pox, and you can't get shingles if you don't ever have chicken pox. Sooner did add the anecdote that she had shingles and it sucked (I have my own anecdotes about that, but I'll refrain), but that was supplementary to the facts that she provided.

I can't speak for Jen either, but kle just said what I was thinking. Sooner's evidence wasn't completely anecdotal. I hadn't thought much about the chicken pox vaccine's effect on shingles, but I will be doing more research/talking to Aria's pedi about it now.

I've had shingles almost every other year since I was 12. It's awful. If I can keep Aria from experiencing them, I will.

NatesLady1309 · November 2012

kleMcK:
Just trying to help you understand why this is one parenting decision where I can't respect the other side, because the other side puts my child at risk.

Can I move this to the other Vax thread? Heading over there with a copy/paste...

runrinserepeat · November 2012

NatesLady1309:

kleMcK:
Just trying to help you understand why this is one parenting decision where I can't respect the other side, because the other side puts my child at risk.

Can I move this to the other Vax thread? Heading over there with a copy/paste...

Go for it...

NatesLady1309 · November 2012

lancyjo:
I can't speak for Jen either, but kle just said what I was thinking. Sooner's evidence wasn't completely anecdotal. I hadn't thought much about the chicken pox vaccine's effect on shingles, but I will be doing more research/talking to Aria's pedi about it now. I've had shingles almost every other year since I was 12. It's awful. If I can keep Aria from experiencing them, I will.

This response makes more sense to me, that you will take Sooner's words into consideration and then still do MORE research and talk to her pedi. I guess that's where I was kind of confused with Jen's response to Sooner's post because the way she worded it was as if that was all she needed to hear to "seal the deal" so to speak on her decision about getting the vax for her girls or not.

Lawren · November 2012

Ay Dios Mio.

Jen0204 · November 2012

NatesLady1309:
Jen0204:

But if you would like to assume that I look to Sooner for guidance on making all medical decisions for my children that's fine. It's not the first (or last) time you'll assume something incorrect.
It's hard to debate that she often comes across as being a "source of all knowledge" of sorts.

Not for everyone. Based on what Sooner has posted in the past, her philosophy on parenting seems to line up with my philosophy. Her views on the medical field also line up with mine. Some people are more into homeopathic solutions and attachment parenting. I am not, and from what I have gathered about Sooner, she is not. And she has a husband who is a pediatrician so she has much faster access to certain information then we do and likely discusses these things regularly with him. Knowing that she has a credible source and that I tend to agree with her views on medicine and parenting, yes, I pay a lot of attention to her posts and give them a lot of thought. For someone who has a different parenting philosophy and view on the medical field I can't imagine they would agree with or give much attention to what she says.

However, I would never make any medical decision based on one person's say so, not even their pediatrician's. We even switched doctors because based on my research I thought their old pediatrician was an idiot. My natural inclination is to follow the recommended vaccination schedule all of the time, so when she answered why one vaccine that I had a question about is so important - which then reminded me of PSA's that I've seen on TV that match what she said - that was the information that I needed to verify that yes, I will continue to follow the recommended schedule.

NatesLady1309 · November 2012

Jen0204:
NatesLady1309:
Jen0204:

But if you would like to assume that I look to Sooner for guidance on making all medical decisions for my children that's fine. It's not the first (or last) time you'll assume something incorrect.
It's hard to debate that she often comes across as being a "source of all knowledge" of sorts.
Not for everyone. Based on what Sooner has posted in the past, her philosophy on parenting seems to line up with my philosophy. Her views on the medical field also line up with mine. Some people are more into homeopathic solutions and attachment parenting. I am not, and from what I have gathered about Sooner, she is not. And she has a husband who is a pediatrician so she has much faster access to certain information then we do and likely discusses these things regularly with him. Knowing that she has a credible source and that I tend to agree with her views on medicine and parenting, yes, I pay a lot of attention to her posts and give them a lot of thought. For someone who has a different parenting philosophy and view on the medical field I can't imagine they would agree with or give much attention to what she says.
However, I would never make any medical decision based on one person's say so, not even their pediatrician's. We even switched doctors because based on my research I thought their old pediatrician was an idiot. My natural inclination is to follow the recommended vaccination schedule all of the time, so when she answered why one vaccine that I had a question about is so important - which then reminded me of PSA's that I've seen on TV that match what she said - that was the information that I needed to verify that yes, I will continue to follow the recommended schedule.

Well explained. When is this chicken pox vax supposed to be given and how often?

Jen0204 · November 2012

https://www.vaccineinformation.org/varicel/qandavax.asp

One dose at 12-15 months and a second dose at 4-6 years.

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