Vaccines... Questions.

smiles325 · October 2012

Hey! Happy Halloween!

So I am hoping to get some opinions on the matter. But first here is my history.

My mom never vaccinated us as babies. But as we were a little older she vaccinated us, and all 6 out of 7 kids have gone on voluntary missions for our church and had to be fully immunized anyways. My youngest brother is still waiting to go on his. Anyway...

When I was pregnant with DD I knew I didn't want to get her shots right away. I wanted to wait at least a year. DH wasn't on board with it but agreed because he knew how strongly I felt about not getting them.

Well, now that she is approaching 2 years of age, the topic is coming up a lot in the house. I am on the fence. I still am not fully sold on getting vaccines but I also know that soooo many people would probably look at me as a bad mom. I'm just so torn and I am having a hard time finding none biased info on the matter.

Either articles are saying how vaccines are mandatory and 100 effective or they are totally anti vaccines. So again, it feels so much like a double edged sword.

By vaccinating your child you put them at certain risks, but, by not vaccinating your child you are puttin them at other risks.

Agh!!!!!! I just wish it was more simple. At least in my mind!

Has anyone else been in my situation and chose a certain side due to whatever it is you found? I am really hoping I don't get flamed for either reasoning. Any info you can link to will be awesome! Thanks!

ETA my husband has done no research at all. He only feels strongly about it because the doctors say to do it.

megpeg · October 2012

I did things on time last time because DS could not go to daycare without them. This time we will either delay or not do vaccines. Nothing was wrong with DS but we are much more strong in our beliefs this time. Dh is a chiropractor and the healthiest people we have ever met we're students there that were not vaccinated.

GoMaltby18 · October 2012

You forgot to mention: By not vaccinating your child you put *everyone else* at risk. It's bigger than just your child.

I vaccinate on my dr's schedule. I have a lot of friends who vaccinate on a more spread-out schedule. I have one family member who didn't vaccinate because "they put monkey brains in vaccines." I think that family member is an idiot. If you are truly interested in unbiased research, spend your time asking doctors for articles and studies from medical journals or try to find them yourself. Google searches will probably just pull up a lot of Jenny McCarthy-type BS.

jerseygirl81 · October 2012

GoMaltby18:
You forgot to mention: By not vaccinating your child you put *everyone else* at risk. It's bigger than just your child.

This. Charlie is fully vaccinated, we just took the long way to get there. Instead of four at one appointment, we spread them out more. I've yet to see any peer-reviewed scientific research that can convince me that the risks of vaccinating outweigh the risks of not vaccinating.

smash1228 · October 2012

Im right there with you on this topic. My SIL highly recommends Dr. Sears book on vaccinations. I haven't read it yet so I personally cannot give my opinion on it. I know he is not anti vax but from what I understand he isn't totally on board with the new vax schedule. Heres a link about it...

https://www.askdrsears.com/?q=topics/vaccines/inside-vaccine-book

There is also a documentary called "The Greater Good." its movie that looks at both sides of vax debate. It has parents of vax injured children, as well as immunologists and Drs. that are pro vax, and Dr. sears is even in it talking about his delayed schedule that he came up with. I found it very informative bc it gives lots of statistics that you have to dig pretty deep into finding. A lot of people think it weighs more on the anti vax side(i think bc its pretty sad hearing the stories from the families of injured), but I still found it very interesting and highly recommend it.

Mama-Bear · October 2012

We're pro-vaccine. First, I know some will say I'm naive and need to do my own homework, but I didn't go to med school, our children's pedi DID. I trust him. There used to be so many more children dying from illnesses, most are gone or have gone way down because of vaccines. Like the PP said, you're not just effecting your child, but the others around you, yes they can get vaccinated at a certain age, but what if your child effects a child that was no old enough to get said vaccine. Also, you're trusting everyone else to vaccinate their child so you don't have to, so if you run into another unvaccinated person/child, your child is at a higher risk.

I won't judge you as a parent to vaccinate/not vaccinate, but it's not what I would choose and there's so much more at risk than your kid getting sick. What about a delayed vaccination schedule, I think I saw one on Dr. Sears' website a few years ago.

MommaG123 · October 2012

smiles325:
By vaccinating your child you put them at certain risks, but, by not vaccinating your child you are puttin them at other risks.

There are minimal risks to vaccinating and HUGE risks to not vaccinating, not only to your child but to the general public as a whole.

I give a huge side eye anyone who doesn't vaccinate their child.

smiles325 · October 2012

Thank you to the PP who was able to site me to a link! I appreciate it!

Thank you to all the other PP's who openly gave their opinion. Like I said, I plan to vaccinate my child some day.
I like the idea of doing it like Dr. Spears suggests.

I guess knowing people who are close to me that have had serious reactions to vaccines can make it a little uncomfortable.

What do you guys who are pro vaccine say to those doctors who are anti vaccine? Did they do their studies wrong? Do they not deserve their degree? I have several close people to me who are practicing family doctors and they are very anti vaccines.

If I talk to a doctor who is pro vaccine, he is obviously going to inform me the reasons why I should vaccinate my children and that the risks are higher to not vaccinate.

If I talk to a doctor who is anti vaccine, he will inform me to stay clear.

Again, biased opinions. Right?

megpeg · October 2012

You should do what you feel is right. Be prepared for a lot of judgment by healthcare workers. My friend did not get her son vaccinated because she almost died as a child because she was allergic to one of the ingredients. The dr would not allergy test him so she would not risk it.

I also use the defense that if others have the vaccine what do they have to worry about if my child does not. The vaccine should protect them if it works. I know that that is going to start a fire storm but that is how I feel.

When I was younger there were only 10 vaccines that you got now there are 30 or more. Like I said do what you feel is right but be ready to fight for your opinion.

Eta- We will probably do a delayed schedule and pick and choose what we do.

smiles325 · October 2012

Yes, I mentioned in my comment that I have a few friends who are doctors and have been for a while and are anti vaccines. Now, I don't know if they tell their patients not to get them. None of them are my personal doctors so I'm not sure how to treat patients. However, having personal conversations with them, they aren't believers.

smiles325 · October 2012

Thank you. I have done what I felt is right in the past. I'm on the fence now that my daughter is older, she has different risks now that she is out in the world experiencing things rather than hanging out in my lap.

Both sides give me a little fear of what ifs.

I really do appreciate everyone who is contributing to this post!

burkems · October 2012

smiles325:
Yes, I mentioned in my comment that I have a few friends who are doctors and have been for a while and are anti vaccines. Now, I don't know if they tell their patients not to get them. None of them are my personal doctors so I'm not sure how to treat patients. However, having personal conversations with them, they aren't believers.

Not trying to be snarky, this is a real question: What don't they believe? The effectiveness of the vaccines? Or the necessity of vaccines? Or that the current schedule is the best?

Also, are these people MDs or are they DOs, or a mid-level practitioner?

Again, all real questions.

Beachy730 · October 2012

megpeg:
I also use the defense that if others have the vaccine what do they have to worry about if my child does not. The vaccine should protect them if it works. I know that that is going to start a fire storm but that is how I feel.

Because my child may not be old enough to receive a certain vaccine for a virus that your unvaccinated child can spread to them.

Not even going to sugarcoat it, I judge the shiitt out of parents who choose not to vaccinate. I don't care what studies you show, there are none that exist that show that the risks of vaccination come anywhere even close to the risks of not vaccinating. Also, you are putting underage children and elderly at risk as well.

I also have never heard of an MD that is anti-vaccine. ND maybe, but not MD. And I can't get behind a lot of what ND's practice, so I definitely am not on board with non-vaccines either. I've even seen several peds offices that won't even take your child on as a patient if you won't agree and sign off on one of two vaccine schedules (regular and slightly delayed as others have mentioned). Honestly, that's the Dr. I would love to get my kids into if I can find one here with that policy.

wishuponastar1 · October 2012

I don't know of any anit-vaccine completely doctors. I know there are some vaccines that some doctors may not recommend such as chicken pox or delaying vaccines such as Hep B. I'm for the spread out dr. sears version of vaccines. I listened to him talk on this podcast recently and am now reading his book:

https://www.parentsavers.com/baby-vaccine-basics/

MommaG123 · October 2012

megpeg:

I also use the defense that if others have the vaccine what do they have to worry about if my child does not. The vaccine should protect them if it works. I know that that is going to start a fire storm but that is how I feel.

Except for a child who can't get the vaccination on schedule due to health risks but wants to. Herd immunity works when and only when the majority of people still vaccinate.

Or my newborn who can't get a pertussis vaccine until he/she is 2 months old but your unvaccinated child can infect him/her.

sillypit · October 2012

GoMaltby18:
You forgot to mention: By not vaccinating your child you put *everyone else* at risk. It's bigger than just your child.

This, vaccinate your child.

BrittKav · October 2012

Please vaccinate your children. It's not just your own child you're putting at risk, it's everyone else's too. It's not fair that your (non-medically supported) ideas can directly harm other people.

megpeg · October 2012

For the record my son has almost all his vaccines we did not do a couple of them like chicken pox. He had them all on the normal schedule. We have done more research into things and will probably do a revised schedule this time and choose not to do all of them again.

jerseygirl81 · October 2012

MommaG123:
megpeg:

I also use the defense that if others have the vaccine what do they have to worry about if my child does not. The vaccine should protect them if it works. I know that that is going to start a fire storm but that is how I feel.

Except for a child who can't get the vaccination on schedule due to health risks but wants to.  Herd immunity works when and only when the majority of people still vaccinate.

Or my newborn who can't get a pertussis vaccine until he/she is 2
months old but your unvaccinated child can infect him/her.

This is exactly why our newborn won't be allowed around my brother's baby. His baby mama is completely antivax, based on Jenny McCarthy. It's infuriating.

kpaivel · October 2012

GoMaltby18:
You forgot to mention: By not vaccinating your child you put everyone else at risk. It's bigger than just your child.

This. Please vaccinate your child.

bumpuser5125333 · October 2012

Vaccine debates make me stabby. Please vaccinate your child. It affects more than just your own family. There are people that can't get vaccines for legit reasons and rely on everyone around them to be vaccinated. I would not want your kid at the playground with mine.

amoramoure · October 2012

Beachy730:
Not even going to sugarcoat it, I judge the shiitt out of parents who choose not to vaccinate. I don't care what studies you show, there are none that exist that show that the risks of vaccination come anywhere even close to the risks of not vaccinating. Also, you are putting underage children and elderly at risk as well.
I also have never heard of an MD that is anti-vaccine. ND maybe, but not MD. And I can't get behind a lot of what ND's practice, so I definitely am not on board with non-vaccines either. I've even seen several peds offices that won't even take your child on as a patient if you won't agree and sign off on one of two vaccine schedules (regular and slightly delayed as others have mentioned). Honestly, that's the Dr. I would love to get my kids into if I can find one here with that policy.

For. Real.

I do not have the patience or the energy to have this conversation right now but not vaccinating your kids is dangerous for EVERYONE. I find it completely ignorant and self-centered. Good lord.

DChunt09 · October 2012

I know everyone is different, but this was one thing that I really didn't even have to think about. Our pedi suggested a vaccine schedule that I believe is pretty common, and that's what we do. He is completely up to date on all vaccines.

Our one exception has been the flu shot. We waited on this because I'm a sahm and my son is not in a day care setting. He's home with me most of the time. When he is older, and interactive with more children on a daily basis, we'll start getting that too.
Just my opinion.

smiles325 · October 2012

Thank you to everyone who commented.

I appreciate all points of view. Being able to get an idea off of a complete stranger, something that I perhaps never thought of, is very helpful to me. Again, thank you!

By no means did I mean to upset anyone, so I hope I didn't spike someone's day with any negativity!

Blueyed228 · October 2012

JohnsonShmonson:
Vaccine debates make me stabby. Please vaccinate your child. It affects more than just your own family. There are people that can't get vaccines for legit reasons and rely on everyone around them to be vaccinated. I would not want your kid at the playground with mine.

This 100%.

ETA: Im going to be one terrible mom Stick out tongue . No BF, disposable diapers, epidural, vaccines and circumcision!

caden1206 · October 2012

LexiLupin:
smiles325:

What do you guys who are pro vaccine say to those doctors who are anti vaccine? Did they do their studies wrong? Do they not deserve their degree? I have several close people to me who are practicing family doctors and they are very anti vaccines.

If I talk to a doctor who is pro vaccine, he is obviously going to inform me the reasons why I should vaccinate my children and that the risks are higher to not vaccinate.

If I talk to a doctor who is anti vaccine, he will inform me to stay clear.

Again, biased opinions. Right?
This might be a dumb question but... are there actually doctors out there who are anti-vaccination?

There are a lot of people claiming to be DRs, but don't actually have MDs. That is why it is important to look at where your information comes from.

Ana0927 · November 2012

Herd immunity for dummies:

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/pages/communityimmunity.aspx

Please vaccinate your children. Like others said there are many out there who are not able to get vaccinated and depend on those who can to keep the community healthy.

aanchor · November 2012

jerseygirl81:
GoMaltby18:

You forgot to mention: By not vaccinating your child you put *everyone else* at risk. It's bigger than just your child.

This. Charlie is fully vaccinated, we just took the long way to get there. Instead of four at one appointment, we spread them out more. I've yet to see any peer-reviewed scientific research that can convince me that the risks of vaccinating outweigh the risks of not vaccinating.

All of this! I guess the number one thing for me is that I could not live with myself if my child delveloped a disease that I could have prevented.

jerseygirl81 · November 2012

smiles325:
Thank you to the PP who was able to site me to a link! I appreciate it! Thank you to all the other PP's who openly gave their opinion. Like I said, I plan to vaccinate my child some day. I like the idea of doing it like Dr. Spears suggests. I guess knowing people who are close to me that have had serious reactions to vaccines can make it a little uncomfortable. What do you guys who are pro vaccine say to those doctors who are anti vaccine? Did they do their studies wrong? Do they not deserve their degree? I have several close people to me who are practicing family doctors and they are very anti vaccines. If I talk to a doctor who is pro vaccine, he is obviously going to inform me the reasons why I should vaccinate my children and that the risks are higher to not vaccinate. If I talk to a doctor who is anti vaccine, he will inform me to stay clear. Again, biased opinions. Right?

What studies? I'd like to see these studies. The biggest, most-often-cited anti-vax "study" has been fully discredited.

tbjenk · November 2012

Luckily, my husband and I are on the same page as far as vaccinations go. And I think that is what is most important. You are the parents and you will know what is best for your child. You both need to feel comfortable with your decisions. Our plan is not to be open and tell others what we intend to do for a vaccine schedule because it is so controversial these days.

If you are nervous of getting vaccinations because of the ingredients within the vaccines, you can get your child's gut flora tested (I've heard this test is around $100), the healthier your child's gut flora is, the more likely they will not suffer from diseases caused by mercury, msg, formaldehyde, etc. Probiotics will also improve the health of a person's gut flora.

Hope that helps!

Beachy730 · November 2012

tbjenk:
Luckily, my husband and I are on the same page as far as vaccinations go. And I think that is what is most important. You are the parents and you will know what is best for your child. You both need to feel comfortable with your decisions. Our plan is not to be open and tell others what we intend to do for a vaccine schedule because it is so controversial these days.

Honestly, this just angers me. First of all, parents do NOT always know what is best for their child, especially when it comes to medical and health decisions. And the fact that you do not plan to be open about it is just shady and dangerous. I'm taking that to mean you don't plan on fully vaccinating, and just won't tell anybody. So then your kid will be at school, playgrounds and other public places spreading these viruses and illnesses to other kids and people, but because it's "contraversial" you'll keep it to yourselves.

jerseygirl81 · November 2012

Beachy730:
tbjenk:
Luckily, my husband and I are on the same page as far as vaccinations go. And I think that is what is most important. You are the parents and you will know what is best for your child. You both need to feel comfortable with your decisions. Our plan is not to be open and tell others what we intend to do for a vaccine schedule because it is so controversial these days.
Honestly, this just angers me. First of all, parents do NOT always know what is best for their child, especially when it comes to medical and health decisions. And the fact that you do not plan to be open about it is just shady and dangerous. I'm taking that to mean you don't plan on fully vaccinating, and just won't tell anybody. So then your kid will be at school, playgrounds and other public places spreading these viruses and illnesses to other kids and people, but because it's "contraversial" you'll keep it to yourselves.

I agree, that isn't right, at all. Parents of the children that will be around yours should know. As I posted earlier, I won't be bringing our newborn around our unvaccinated nephew. All of the potential diseases are serious, but Pertussis is our main sticking point. No way am I willing to expose my child to that.

tbjenk · November 2012

I'm sorry to have angered you... as a family, my husband and I are allowed to make the decisions for our kids and really, it just simply isn't anyone else's business. Why would I broadcast our decisions just to end up in debates like this where people get angry? Big Smile

What anyone chooses to do is their choice that they have to live with, I guess my stance is I root for the parents in making a difficult decision that other people will be quick to tell them they are making the wrong decision (whether they choose to vaccinate or not).

And please, no need to be angered, you have no idea what side of the fence I side with after I have done researching with both sides.

kpaivel · November 2012

jerseygirl81:
Beachy730:
tbjenk:
Luckily, my husband and I are on the same page as far as vaccinations go. And I think that is what is most important. You are the parents and you will know what is best for your child. You both need to feel comfortable with your decisions. Our plan is not to be open and tell others what we intend to do for a vaccine schedule because it is so controversial these days.

Honestly, this just angers me. First of all, parents do NOT always know what is best for their child, especially when it comes to medical and health decisions. And the fact that you do not plan to be open about it is just shady and dangerous. I'm taking that to mean you don't plan on fully vaccinating, and just won't tell anybody. So then your kid will be at school, playgrounds and other public places spreading these viruses and illnesses to other kids and people, but because it's "contraversial" you'll keep it to yourselves.

I agree, that isn't right, at all. Parents of the children that will be around yours should know. As I posted earlier, I won't be bringing our newborn around our unvaccinated nephew. All of the potential diseases are serious, but Pertussis is our main sticking point. No way am I willing to expose my child to that.

All of this, exactly. It's incredibly *selfish* to keep that information to yourself. You are putting others at risk. As a mother, this makes me sad and angry that another parent would do something so irresponsible.

Beachy730 · November 2012

tbjenk:
I'm sorry to have angered you... as a family, my husband and I are allowed to make the decisions for our kids and really, it just simply isn't anyone else's business. Why would I broadcast our decisions just to end up in debates like this where people get angry?

What anyone chooses to do is their choice that they have to live with, I guess my stance is I root for the parents in making a difficult decision that other people will be quick to tell them they are making the wrong decision (whether they choose to vaccinate or not).

And please, no need to be angered, you have no idea what side of the fence I side with after I have done researching with both sides.

Choosing not to state your choice in here is one thing. But choosing not to "broadcast" your decisions to people in your child's life who will be directly affected by your decisions is irresponsible and could be deadly. It's not that I'm angered by whatever choice you make. I'm angered at your flippant attitude that it doesn't affect anyone but you, your H, and your child.

jerseygirl81 · November 2012

tbjenk:
I'm sorry to have angered you... as a family, my husband and I are allowed to make the decisions for our kids and really, it just simply isn't anyone else's business. Why would I broadcast our decisions just to end up in debates like this where people get angry?

What anyone chooses to do is their choice that they have to live with, I guess my stance is I root for the parents in making a difficult decision that other people will be quick to tell them they are making the wrong decision (whether they choose to vaccinate or not).

And please, no need to be angered, you have no idea what side of the fence I side with after I have done researching with both sides.

Because it becomes someone else's business when you're exposing others to potential negative consequences of your decision. I don't care what you do, but if it's going to potentially impact MY child, then it becomes something I care about.

tbjenk · November 2012

Does this mean you won't schedule playdates with me...? nah, I'm just kidding.

I totally respect that. And if I know of any mothers who don't trust the immunity factors of my child simply because I am not "open for discussion" and they don't want to bring their kids around mine, I honestly respect that. Everyone needs to take care of their family.

Maybe I should explain a little bit why I came up with this decision. Within my group of friends, there are granolas and there are doctors and dentists.... getting into a conversation about it with either side is difficult. Which is why my husb and I have come to the conclusion of what we would like to do and how we'd like to keep it a personal decision, like finances or politics. Smile It's not worth losing friendships over.

Edit: After discussing this, it does give me an idea what I may be in for so thank you for chatting. First time mom here. Confused

Raquellyo · November 2012

I think it is incredibly irresponsible for people to not vaccinate -- and those who don't do it because "everyone else got it done, so I won't have to" is mind boggling.

For someone to purposely withhold that information also puts everyone else's kid at danger. It makes me even more adament to protect MY kids with vaccinations because you apparently just don't know who is out there letting their kids run free, possibly endangering the health of my little ones. I can't even continue to comment on this....

And adding a bunch of smiley faces to a post doesn't lighten what you say by any means.

Blueyed228 · November 2012

If I cant vaccinate my child because of medical reasons and my kid gets effing measles from your kid because you worship the church of Jenny McCarthy, Im not going to hold myself back from knocking on your door and punching you in the ingorant, selfish, moronic face.

Vaccinate your kids. Sh!t like polio, measles, etc is no joke.

Killer Tomato · November 2012

The problem is that we are lucky to live in a society where most of the diseases we are vaccinating against were almost eradicated. We did not grow up seeing the effects of measles, mumps, whooping cough, or polio. We do not know people who have hearing loss, vision damage, or paralysis from these diseases. We are not afraid of them anymore...they exist in some WWII world where everything is sepia-toned and nostalgic.

Are vaccines 100% safe? No. Are there situations where a child should absolutely NOT be immunized? Yes. Should we be more afraid of the vaccines than the diseases they prevent? NO. So why are we? Because we really don't believe that these diseases pose a threat--that they could really harm our children. Why else would we risk hearing/vision damage or paralysis (or death) in our children? And because we have become complacent, the threat is growing larger by the day.

So what, exactly, are the arguments against vaccination? The main study done linking vaccines to autism has been definitively disproved as a fraud, and most others are easily shown to be unreliable, so there is no autism link (despite what Jenny McCarthy may have you believe.) Yes, there are potential thimerosal issues, but all but trace amounts of the compound have been removed from childhood vaccines. Can someone show me a valid argument against vaccination, or does it all just boil down to "it seems like a bad idea to put stuff in my baby?"

Let's discuss "my doctor-like friend says the people who never had vaccines are some of the healthiest he has ever seen." Did these people eat better than your average Joe? Were they also yoga practicing vegetarians who meditate daily? Or were they raised on pop tarts and fruit loops? You can't make a connection that simply without knowing other influencing factors. Let's say I do a study where I examine lung cancer rates in yoga practitioners and bowlers. If I see the yoga group having significantly lower lung cancer rates, does this mean yoga is responsible? Or does it just mean that people who choose to do yoga tend to be people who choose not to smoke? The fact that many people who choose not to vaccinate their children are (ironically) middle-class, well educated parents who shop at the local health-food store means that there is more to be considered. Not to mention that anecdotal evidence can be used to support just about anything (my four uncles smoked like chimneys, and they never had a day of illness until they died at 95, for example, does not mean smoking is not bad for you.)

Go back in time (or visit a country where these diseases are common,) and you will find parents who would embrace the opportunity to protect their children.

Sure, it is a choice to vaccinate your children or not. If you choose not to, though, you put your children and the children around you at ever-increasing risk. And as more people decide to shift responsibility for "herd immunity" onto others, we will all get to relive the reasons we worked so hard to fight these diseases in the first place. Maybe when the diseases seem more "real," we will start vaccinating again.

Personally, will I be nervous when it comes time for my LO's shots? Absolutely. But I would consider myself a bad parent if I did not protect my child, and an irresponsible member of society for increasing the risks to other children (some of whom cannot be vaccinated, some of whom the vaccine will not protect.)

In response to PP who isn't going to share her choice, I also think that if you are not going to vaccinate your children, you have a moral obligation to inform other parents of this fact. Share or don't share among your adult friends as you see fit to avoid heated discussions, but those with children deserve to be aware of your choice.

Blueyed228 · November 2012

Not sharing that your kid isnt vaccinated is like not sharing the fact that you have AIDS to the guy you are about to sleep with.

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