I'm having a feminist crisis over Cinderella

KathrynMD · October 2012

I really want to buy and watch Cinderella with DD. I read the Disney book 1000x as a little girl, but never saw the movie. Intellectually, I hate the message of the Princesses and the over marketing and the super princessification of little girls, etc. etc. but the 5 year old in me is going - O.M.G. Cinderella movie, must see it and the mom and me sees this special mother/daughter bonding moment.

DH agrees with me on being generally anti-princess (not that we don't have princess dress up stuff and have certainly watched some of the more recent princess movies) but Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty treat women so passively and there's a lot of violence too, I feel like I want to avoid it as much as possible. I dont' want to send my DD the message that she needs to wait for someone to rescue you.

Can anyone relate to this?

Dochas · October 2012

I would have felt the same way if I had a daughter. My niece loved Barbie Dolls and I always bought her the Dentist Barbie or something similar. I figured if I had to buy it she should at least have all of her clothes on and do something besides wave pom poms.

Cookiecake7 · October 2012

Honestly, not anymore. I was a Women's Studies major is college and during that time I thought about this a lot. But since then I've realized I absolutely loved Disney princesses when I was growing up and I never saw any of the negatives I now see as an adult. I'm much more independent than most of my friends who didn't like Disney as much as I did. I've decided not to put my adult preference onto dd. But I'm also going to make a point throughout her life of the importance of education, independence, etc...
But don't get me started on Barbie!

jnealet · October 2012

Yes, I know the feeling. We have all the movies but DH and I are pretty much on the same page as you guys. Have you read Cinderella Ate my Daughter? It was much talked about 2-3 years ago. I haven't gotten it yet, but plan on it when D1 is a little older.

We watch the movies for the entertainment value and lets me honest, Cinderella or The Little Mermaid or whatever Disney movie is so much more tolerable than Dora. Yes, Dora solves her own problems but she annoys the crap out of me in the process.

I don't know what we'll do in the long run, probably focus on saving herself when she gets old enough to figure it all out.

Here's a link to a review of the book:

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/books/review/Paul-t.html?_r=0

bearfootz · October 2012

You watched it as a child and you turned out to be a strong woman, right?

I guess that's how I look at it. I watched all of those movies as a kid, because they were fun to watch. I don't really remember thinking that I needed Prince Charming to save me. If anything, it's the Fairy Godmother that helps Cinderella, not the Prince. And then you also read your daughter books and show her movies where females are strong an independent and it's not just about finding a husband, and set a good example for her yourself. I think it all balances out.

I have a boy and a girl. They both can play with 'boy' toys or 'girl' toys. I think we're typically pretty gender neutral with our approach. I don't put DS in dresses or anything, but if he wants to wear his sisters headbands and barrettes, so be it. But what's funny is that while DS worships Woody from Toy Story, DD's favorite is Cinderella.

mexicolombiana · October 2012

I struggle with this all the time. My toddler loves princess stuff and her big thing now is tinkerbell. I think I'm ok with tinkerbell although her dresses are a bit short. oh well.

She also loves Cailou and Curious George and Dora. So while I don't encourage princess stuff in our house, somehow it ends up in our house. I have decided I'm over it, in the sense that I'm not going to throw the princess stuff out of our house, but I'll just teach her that they'er not real, etc.

She also really loves playing doctor with her doctor's kit so I'm sure some pink princess crap won't hurt her

runrinserepeat · October 2012

Bearfootz:

You watched it as a child and you turned out to be a strong woman, right?

This is exactly how I feel about it. If we all turned out fine after watching the movie, I'm sure our daughters will, too.

rabstbmom · October 2012

Do you think you could isolate one princess/story from the Princess marketing machine? I don't mean that to be snarky. I'm asking a genuine question. I say that because I remember watching/liking Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty, but back then, it was more like each princess had her own story and you liked it for its own merits. It wasn't the Disney marketing machine that has, by extension, turned everything--princess-related or not-- into a gender battle between pink and not-pink.

Honestly, when I realized that F-P now has a pink doctor's kit for girls and a neutral-color one for, presumably, boys, I wanted to scream! So, I don't know what the answer is, but I think if you get on board with one princess, one story, that's not so bad. But I really don't know, from a practical standpoint, if you can do that anymore without getting sucked into the larger princess culture.

1026pumpkin · October 2012

I agree with PPs- I loved the Disney movies when I was little and all of the feminist issues were way over my head at the time- they were just fun!

I think what will make the biggest difference for your daughter is seeing that she has a strong, independent mom who works hard and solves problems....who sometimes likes to wear really pretty dresses :-)

aglenn · October 2012

I've read the Cinderella Ate My Daughter book -- I recommend it. It's really interesting. (It has a Kindle edition, too, if you are like me and only able to read in bits and pieces on the go).

DD loves the princess junk, as do all her friends. I can't see any way to avoid it at this point because she is too young to understand my feminist principles and it would just be mean to say no to it all. I think it is like anything else, you can use it as a teachable moment and have conversations about it in age-appropriate ways as the child grows up. At this age, there is not much to do other than enjoy it with her, but as DD gets older and starts to develop critical thinking skills we'll talk about princesses just like we will talk about TV commercials and what is the motivation behind marketing products in certain ways, etc.

Brit's Luna154 · October 2012

I can relate. H has already had a few discussions with his mom about how she is not supposed to refer to DD as "Princess" because she is a regular girl, not a princess. DD is only 9 months old, so this hasn't all unfolded at our house yet, but it will and I'm on the same page as you.

I grew up in a household where there were a ton of shows that we weren't allowed to watch. The Smurfs were communists, G.I. Joe was condescending to women, the list went on and on. I'm sure my friends thought my parents were nuts. While I don't necessarily agree with all of their viewpoints as an adult, I understand that they have some values/viewpoints that they wanted to instill in me and I can appreciate why they would do that. I certainly have my own soapbox that DD will be subjected to.

kmwills · October 2012

I thought about it a lot when DD was born, but now that she's actually old enough to watch princess movies, it doesn't bother me as much. It's just a story, and we read/watch so many different types of stories that she gets a wide variety. She likes The Lion King better than Cinderella anyway. Wink

brewcitybride · October 2012

I felt this way, too, when my DD was born. She actually came to me and started asking about princesses on her own, as she was exposed to other little girls talking about them in daycare. We are huge Disney fans, and while I have some uncomfortableness with some of the messages, some of them are really great - like the movie Tangled. Belle is really independent and headstrong, too, and smart, she reads books. I have found that the older Disney movies (Cinderalla, Sleeping Beauty) are much more old-fashioned in terms of how the princess is portrayed as weak and needing saving by a Prince!

The key is communication - now that DD is almost 4, we talk about this stuff. We talk about how to be a good person, how to treat others the way you want to be treated, how it's ok that girls play with princesses AND trucks, balls AND dolls. It's a balance. I just know that she is getting good messages at home, and that's the best I can do!

mexicolombiana · October 2012

Brit's Luna154:
I can relate. H has already had a few discussions with his mom about how she is not supposed to refer to DD as "Princess" because she is a regular girl, not a princess. DD is only 9 months old, so this hasn't all unfolded at our house yet, but it will and I'm on the same page as you.

I grew up in a household where there were a ton of shows that we weren't allowed to watch. The Smurfs were communists, G.I. Joe was condescending to women, the list went on and on. I'm sure my friends thought my parents were nuts. While I don't necessarily agree with all of their viewpoints as an adult, I understand that they have some values/viewpoints that they wanted to instill in me and I can appreciate why they would do that. I certainly have my own soapbox that DD will be subjected to.

I giggled when I read about your communist Smurf comment. But so very true.

https://www.angelfire.com/mo/potatofarm/smurf.html

ASmallWonder · October 2012

My opinion is that you should never be "anti" anything but balance it out by being "pro" something else. Princesses are a big deal to a lot of little girls and loving that fantasy isn't bad as long as you promote being smart and capable as a girl/woman as well.

Leap08 · October 2012

My daughter is so into the Disney Princess thing. I resisted and resisted, and then I gave up. I don't think loving princesses at age 3 is going to do her any harm. Its a stage. I don't think it means she's going to grow up to be some dependent, weak woman that needs to be rescued. Her real life role models (me, my mom, my sister) are strong, smart, independent women. My cousin's daughters were also huge princess fans when they were little, but by the time they hit grade school they were over it. I feel like that's what is going to happen. She will find other interests and move on.

jlaOK · October 2012

I watched and loved all of the Disney princess movies and still grew up as a strong independent woman. I don't want any movie or TV show to have more of an influence on my child then the ideals and morals I will instill in them will have.

That being said, my 2-year-old DS wants Cinderella, or as he says, the "princess movie" and I plan on buying it for him.

Netty_3 · October 2012

Not really. I grew up watching those movies...pre-princessmania and loved them. I feel that they didn't shape me as a person. I never went to college to meet a man, I went for an education. I think you underestimate the power you have as a parent to be a role model and set a precadent. My parents let me play dress up and all that, but they also instilled values of how to be a well-rounded individual. That it's on me to be successful, not someone else...that school was important. I think you can have those moments. I remember it ebing a big deal when the Disney movies were re-released to the theaters, it was a family affair to go, and my mom would share with us her special memories of seeing the movie for the first time as a little girl. I'm not still wearing a tiara waiting for prince charming...I found someone better. I am also not a gymnast...and I was obsessed with gymnastics as a kid. Lots of girls want to be princesses, veterinarians, and boys like being policemen and firefighters, but at the end of the day some of those kids became engineers and accountants.

KathrynMD · October 2012

Thanks all. All the Princess stuff happened after I was a little, so my view of the whole princess thing has always been as an adult critic of it, never as the target consumer.

bunny731 · October 2012

You may also be sending her the message that she will eventually have two mean sisters, a wicked step-mother, and that she will be required to clean everything to perfection. If the last one takes... please let us all know.

Dochas · October 2012

Am I the only person who DIDN'T watch these movies as a little girl? I also didn't 'always dream of my wedding day' - so maybe they shape us more than we think.

jf198400 · October 2012

I have no problem with Cinderella or any princesses, that's just part of the magic of being a little girl. I was obsessed with princesses when I was little (like wore a Sleeping Beauty dress every single day for 2 years) and I turned out okay. Also there are plenty of other more inspiring princesses like Belle- she is educated, and kind and even helps save the Beast.

Also I do try to allow both my kids to play with boy/girl toys. DS loves to take DD's princesses (granted he's only 7 months). And DD's latest obsession is Thomas the train.

As your DD gets older you can educate her about real princesses like Kate Middleton, I think she is a good role model for today's girls.

Erinmmo · October 2012

Its just a story- and one that gets our littles ones to imagine and pretend. etc Your daughter observes you daily and sees- sounds like you are- a very confident and strong woman/mommy so why not let her enjoy the fantasy! You are only a child for so long! I have seen Cinderella countless times- I turned out confident and strong because my parents instilled that in me from a very young age.

My 2 yr old has watched some Disney Princess scenes from vaiorus movies because she loves the singing parts and I am glad I let her watch them because I am learning about what she likes and her personality is really starting to come out!

By the way didnt most of watch looney tunes and tom and jerry- now those were violent! I am assuming most of us turned out to be non-violent!

KathrynMD · October 2012

Dochas:
Am I the only person who DIDN'T watch these movies as a little girl? I also didn't 'always dream of my wedding day' - so maybe they shape us more than we think.

Thanks - yes, I didn't watch these as a kid. I grew up in the 70's - pre Disney channel, cable and VHS and Beta. I maybe saw Cinderella once on the Disney Sunday night movie, but I remember Witch Mountain alot more. I have no reference to these movies.

ridesbuttons · October 2012

Reason #412 I am relieved to not have a girl.

Ugh. It's just a minefield out there.

Leap08 · October 2012

KathrynMD:
Dochas:
Am I the only person who DIDN'T watch these movies as a little girl? I also didn't 'always dream of my wedding day' - so maybe they shape us more than we think.

Thanks - yes, I didn't watch these as a kid. I grew up in the 70's - pre Disney channel, cable and VHS and Beta. I maybe saw Cinderella once on the Disney Sunday night movie, but I remember Witch Mountain alot more. I have no reference to these movies.

I didn't watch them as a kid, either. I grew up in the 70s & 80s, and I think by the time they started releasing the classic princess movies on VHS, I would have been long past the princess stage. I do remember reading the books over and over though. We have a classic Cinderella book that I had as a child (non-Disney) that I read to my daughter.

kristinc01 · October 2012

Dochas:
Am I the only person who DIDN'T watch these movies as a little girl? I also didn't 'always dream of my wedding day' - so maybe they shape us more than we think.

Well, since everyone else on here watched the movies and all their friends, siblings, and cousins also watched them and ALL of them turned out to be strong, independent women, "Cinderella Ate My Daughter" and the princess culture must be bunk.

jlaOK · October 2012

KristinBrichacek:

Dochas:
Am I the only person who DIDN'T watch these movies as a little girl? I also didn't 'always dream of my wedding day' - so maybe they shape us more than we think.

Well, since everyone else on here watched the movies and all their friends, siblings, and cousins also watched them and ALL of them turned out to be strong, independent women, "Cinderella Ate My Daughter" and the princess culture must be bunk.

Honestly, I think that the problem isn't the princess movies but more the "Toddlers and Tiaras" and "Dance Moms" type of parenting.

526SadieSadie · October 2012

I love Disney movies. There, I said it. The feminist in my brain is getting ready to hold me hostage for saying it, but I do.

I don't like Barbie dolls and I don't like the domestic chore toys (toy vaccuums/washing machines) with the exception of play kitchens because generally, those are marketed to boys and girls - everyone I know with a child of either gender has a play kitchen. I think its a good imagination toy.

We decided before we knew Olivia was a girl that we wouldn't enforce gender roles in certain ways, ie trucks for boys/dolls for girls. Olivia will have dolls and trucks, a play kitchen and a work bench, let her figure out what she prefers to play with, lots and lots of puzzles and the kind of toys that encourage creativity and problem solving skills.

But still, I do love Disney movies. Little Mermaid is my favorite; but Ariel is a pretty good character as far as the princesses go - she's precocious, curious, adventurous, questions the status quo and rebellious. Yes, she literally loses her voice to experience the life she longs for, but she's still a very heroic female character. She's not a 'woe is me' Disney princess.

jallascalla · October 2012

KristinBrichacek:
Dochas:
Am I the only person who DIDN'T watch these movies as a little girl? I also didn't 'always dream of my wedding day' - so maybe they shape us more than we think.

Well, since everyone else on here watched the movies and all their friends, siblings, and cousins also watched them and ALL of them turned out to be strong, independent women, "Cinderella Ate My Daughter" and the princess culture must be bunk.

There is big difference between us watching disney films as children and the mass marketing machine of princess culture today -- that is the one of the main point of the book Cinderella ate my Daughter.

There is a natural interest in gender specific things that hits around the age 3,4,5 (for boys and girls) and then there is the madness that people encourage with princess mania. (Thus the feminist crisis that our parents might not have felt).

I found the book helpful, my take is you let your kids watch the movies and just keep good role models and good communication about girls/gender portrayal (when they are older and understand). It's all about moderation.

TMWarren85 · October 2012

When DD was younger and I started reading books I really struggled with the whole "they met, fell in love, got married the next day and lived happily ever after." I didn't want to ingrain into my little girl that that's how the world works. But at the end of the day she doesn't think that, she calls DH her Prince Charming and we all get to be princesses together.

I will say that I'm not a fan of the generalized 'Princess' decor, but that's just me. DD has all the books but doesn't have a princess blanket or pj's or anything. But my family (mostly my mom's side) buys everything licensed Disney Princess table, chair, towel, trinket you can imagine and it kills me. I've never been one for advertisement through my kid, the toys are one thing but I can't have a Cinderella bedding set. (completely a personal preference) DD will be Cinderella for Christmas though and she's really excited about it- we just have certain limits.

And I agree, I would take Cinderella over Dora ANY DAY. DD will be in her room and she's screaming MAP at the TV and I cringe.

kristinc01 · October 2012

jallascalla:
KristinBrichacek:

Dochas:
Am I the only person who DIDN'T watch these movies as a little girl? I also didn't 'always dream of my wedding day' - so maybe they shape us more than we think.

Well, since everyone else on here watched the movies and all their friends, siblings, and cousins also watched them and ALL of them turned out to be strong, independent women, "Cinderella Ate My Daughter" and the princess culture must be bunk.

There is big difference between us watching disney films as children and the mass marketing machine of princess culture today -- that is the one of the main point of the book Cinderella ate my Daughter.

There is a natural interest in gender specific things that hits around the age 3,4,5 (for boys and girls) and then there is the madness that people encourage with princess mania. (Thus the feminist crisis that our parents might not have felt).

I found the book helpful, my take is you let your kids watch the movies and just keep good role models and good communication about girls/gender portrayal (when they are older and understand). It's all about moderation.

I think I feel like a lot of people posting where they let their daughter watch the movie and will be a girl role model for her. I was more tying to be tongue and cheeck b/c I have a 1yo DD and the other person in our group of friends that has a girl has a 2 year old. She just decorated her entire room as princess - huge rug, pillows, lamps, blankets, wall stickers - the whole works with the Disney princesses. In general her daughter is given much girly-er clothes and toys than mine. And while I feel that it is too much with her daughter compared to mine if I were to casually bring up the issue of a princess culture I think her response would be that she watched the movies (as did I) and turned out fine. So my comment was more like "Then who is this culture affecting if in the end we are all fine?"

Also more of a introspection on my part, because if I'm trying to avoid princess culture and she actively promotes it and in 15-20 years when our girls are going out in the world, I can only assume they will both be strong women, so maybe I don't need to avoid it. (It's not a crazy, bashing opposition, I just plan on stearing her towards other options if she wants decorations or clothes with characters on it. We'll see how that plan works since she's still only one and I'm yet to be tested!)

I do plan on picking up the book that was suggested.

LillyGrrl · October 2012

A movie is just a movie- your parenting should stand and be a testament more than a movie should. Watching a few disney princess flicks isn't going to give your daughter a sense of entitlement unless you do that. She won't be a spoiled little "princess" unless you make her one.

We've watched Princess and The Frog, Snow White, Aladdin, Mulan, Tangled and I have to say the days of "Some day my prince will come" (snow white) to "when will my life begin" (tangled) are cluttered with Disney growing up out the idea that women are only good for housework and cooking. The princesses of today are a lot less passive than Snow White or Cinderella.

That being said, I still stick by that your parenting and treatment of your daughter are going to send a far greater message than any number of times she watches Cinderella or Sleeping Beauty.

Dochas · October 2012

526SadieSadie:

I don't like Barbie dolls and I don't like the domestic chore toys (toy vaccuums/washing machines) with the exception of play kitchens because generally, those are marketed to boys and girls - everyone I know with a child of either gender has a play kitchen. I think its a good imagination toy.

Ugh. How revolting is it that people still consider vacuums, shopping carts, strollers and baby dolls to be girls' toys? My son has a baby doll. He often sits it on the floor to play trains with him. lol. And as soon as I find an apron that isn't pink with purple hearts he's getting one. He's 2 and I expect baking to be messy work!

daisy662 · October 2012

jlaOK:
KristinBrichacek:

Dochas:
Am I the only person who DIDN'T watch these movies as a little girl? I also didn't 'always dream of my wedding day' - so maybe they shape us more than we think.

Well, since everyone else on here watched the movies and all their friends, siblings, and cousins also watched them and ALL of them turned out to be strong, independent women, "Cinderella Ate My Daughter" and the princess culture must be bunk.

Honestly, I think that the problem isn't the princess movies but more the "Toddlers and Tiaras" and "Dance Moms" type of parenting.

THIS THIS THIS

These are just stories people - lighten up!! If you raise your daughters with strong values and morals, watching Disney movies is not going to turn her into a Diva!

cyprissa · October 2012

Ok, the whole Barbie debate is really interesting to me. I LOVED LOVED LOVED Barbie when I was a kid (early 80s) and to my child self, she represented being able to be and do anything. I had dancer barbies, doctor barbie, punk rock barbie, etc. I never really thought about her weird proportions....

Oh and to the OP...I get what you are saying about Disney but I think as long as you balance the message it's fine.

LoCarb · October 2012

Honestly, you may be over thinking it....We finally had a chance to watch Cinderella and DD who is really into princess' could care less about the movie. Probably bc it was not in Pixar or HD or any great quality. Besides Cindy was a drunk (points at siggy). On a serious note, I agree w/ PP it's about balance and good parenting that will ultimately influence your child. If your D is into princess' maybe she will enjoy the movie Brave?

groovygrl · October 2012

We got it for DD the other day and frankly the part she likes the best is the mice & the cat...I don't really give much thought to the whole princess thing and I think you can talk about other stuff from the movie anyway- how nice she is to animals, and how you treat people and I will even say how much the prince liked talking to her while they danced b/c she is so smart and kind and has wonderful things to say haha. and she is strong & brave b/c she stands up to the stepmother & sisters... I think there is a lot more to forming her (DD) self image than some princess movies & toys/gear. She is going to be cinderella for halloween & I can understand why she feels excited to wear that dress...DS asked to be spider man and we don't even own a single spiderman toy or video.

As for the toy thing, I always thought that my kids would have all the gender toys & play with both...now, having had b/g twins who have both had all the same toys in the same rooms/space I have watched them individually gravitate toward different toys & it is pretty amazing how the preferences play out. She has gone toward the dolls & pink stuff over time & he had an obsession w/ trucks/trains/cars very early on, around 2. I didn't push any of the toys on either of them, they just gravitated toward them. Both played w/ the vacuum for a long time as well as the strollers, and it really had nothign to do with their gender role or 'purpose' but the fact that they both can be pushed & run around the house. Now that they're old enough to ask for certain toys, it is even more clear. I won't say that 'society' or us or their teachers/friends haven't added to social conditioning in some ways, even unconsciously, but that would happen with princesses in their lives or not.

I will say that it bugs me that MH showed DD barbie dolls in the store the other day & now she keeps asking for a barbie doll and I told MH I did not want her to have them until she's older (I won't forbid them or anything but I really had like 2 growing up & wasn't into them and I'm not a fan of hte image they portray) and he was like, huh? what's wrong w/ barbie dolls? totally over his head.

RoxyLynn · October 2012

I get it. But I look at the way my parents handled the issue of my racist grandparents - it's out there, but it's not what we believe in.

groovygrl · October 2012

Dochas:
526SadieSadie:

I don't like Barbie dolls and I don't like the domestic chore toys (toy vaccuums/washing machines) with the exception of play kitchens because generally, those are marketed to boys and girls - everyone I know with a child of either gender has a play kitchen. I think its a good imagination toy.
Ugh. How revolting is it that people still consider vacuums, shopping carts, strollers and baby dolls to be girls' toys? My son has a baby doll. He often sits it on the floor to play trains with him. lol. And as soon as I find an apron that isn't pink with purple hearts he's getting one. He's 2 and I expect baking to be messy work!

here ya go sorry not clicky

https://www.amazon.com/Mimi-Sardine-Coated-Organic-Cotton/dp/B000IMWT9A/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1350430267&sr=8-7&keywords=kids+apron

https://www.amazon.com/Mimi-Sardine-Coated-Organic-Sealife/dp/B0063AO06Q/ref=pd_bxgy_ba_img_y

SavedByLove · October 2012

cyprissa:
Ok, the whole Barbie debate is really interesting to me. I LOVED LOVED LOVED Barbie when I was a kid (early 80s) and to my child self, she represented being able to be and do anything. I had dancer barbies, doctor barbie, punk rock barbie, etc. I never really thought about her weird proportions....
Oh and to the OP...I get what you are saying about Disney but I think as long as you balance the message it's fine.

This! I thought I was the only one - so glad someone else out there doesn't despise Barbie, haha. I don't have a daughter (yet) so I haven't thought through all of this in much detail yet but the thought of not allowing Barbie makes me kind of sad. I played for YEARS with her. And while I'm no psychologist, I have to think all the movies/tv images made me want to be thin and have big boobs, not sweet Barbie!

Want a personalized experience?

I'm having a feminist crisis over Cinderella

Re: I'm having a feminist crisis over Cinderella

Choose Another Board

Search Boards