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November 2011 Moms
RedCamaro
member
FFFC
RedCamaro
member
Yay for Friday! I need the weekend after this week. What's your confession, Ladies?
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Re: FFFC
Aw, poor thing! Just make sure to watch for any signs of infection.
That is one of the privileges to being in a union-job protection while fighting for what you need and deserve.
I still think its crap! Unions have way too much power
FWIW, not all unions are like that. My friends automotive union went on strike for months, and he had to sit on the picket line a minimum of how ever many hours, just to get a couple hundred dollars in strike pay a week.
FFFC = Flame Free Friday Confession
MY FFFC: DH has a code class he has to take all day tomorrow, and I'm really excited to have the whole day just DD and I. I think I'm still adjusting to having him back after being just DD and I all summer.
BFP #2 March 2011, Baby Girl born November 2011!!!
I felt like crap and I really need to go to the grocery. That makes it okay, right?
I'm pretty sure it's flame free Friday confessions but I honestly am not sure!
I said this same thing (about the Muslims violently attacking because they were called violent) to DH last night. It makes no sense to me. I don't know about dropping a bomb on their country, but it seems like something other than an apology from the U.S. is in order.
FFFC 1: I am counting down the days to being done with nursing. My goal is one year and I am 52 days away.
FFFC 2: I already used this FFFC on SAHM board.
How else are public servants supposed to have their voice heard? It is bad enough that teachers are paid absolute_shit, you also want to take away their only means of fighting for legal protection, insurance coverage, and the like?
You don't want to get into this debate with me because it will never end. All I am saying is that teachers have a responsibility to students and vice versa. It's wrong to strike and be paid during school year. The whole summer just went by why not negotiate then? I am not saying they do not have the right to stand up for their beliefs and interests but why at the expens of students and being paid. Nonsense.
I am done with this debate but feel free to continue to discuss I am stepping out before I say something nasty
I don't understand why a debate about unions needs to get nasty? I'm just wondering how a teacher strike is affecting your life so much that you can't even discuss a current event? Unpaid and overworked educators in the classroom negatively impact our students as well. And you can't negotiate a contract that isn't up for negotiation yet.
my best girlfriend in high school (we parted ways around graduation for various reasons) was someone I was jealous of. guys liked her, not me. She was thin, I was average/chunky.
now? She is overweight. And I am not - although I am far from skinny. And that makes me happy.
shallow? maybe. I don't care.
DS born via unplanned C-section at 40w6d
The first is I really screwed up a relationship I had with my best friend, we both have babies now and even though were in different countries, I miss her. I decided I couldn't be friends with her anymore because the guy she claimed to love, used and abused her for various things. She mostly always talked about her problems and drama... I did try to apologize, she isn't willing to forgive and forget to move forward.
My second, I'm a bit nervous about seeing DH's parents this weekend. Since the last time the FIL saw DS was at Christmas and my MIL saw him in July!
haha, love it:)
It may not affect me... but if I was one of the parents of those kids I would be pissed. Now I have to find daycare for my kid or take off work, even though I am paying taxes for my child's education, because a couple of their demands weren't met! The government WAS working with them to come to a compromise... but they didn't WANT to compromise. They had a 15% raise...... now I am sure that they probably were underpaid before and no I don't think that's right but in this economy you are lucky to have a job at all and I don't think it's the right time for a strike.
The teachers in my county have decent pay and great benefits. We're talking 90% benefits- more than the cops and the firefighters who put their lives on the line so we can be safe. Yet they and their union are ALWAYS bit*&ing about something. It's never enough for them. They have 3 months of paid vacation with the opportunity to make more if they decide to teach summer school. My MIL works in a dental office and every time a teacher makes an appointment they arealways bitc*ing about making it because she/he doesn't want to miss work. Sorry- everyone else has to as well! So you have to get a sub? Deal with it! I just don't get this argument where "I'm God's gift to you because I'm a teacher" comes from. You still have to work for your paycheck like everyone else.
Now... that being said I know that this is can be an overgeneralization. There are many great teachers out there (even some of the ones I mentioned with attitude issues are great teachers). It's just many of the ones I have encountered (only outside of the classroom) act this way and it's ridiculous.
I don't think it's FFFC worthy but I am so pissed at my OB's office right now. I am waiting for my blood test results and apparently they got them from the lab but the doctor hasn't looked at them so they haven't said anything to me. Oh, and to top it off an HCG was supposed to be ordered on the test and it wasn't, so now I will likely have to go back and get more blood drawn. This was after having a long talk with the doc as to exactly which tests would be done. Grr....
Oh yeah and my COBRA runs out on 9/20... so hopefully I can get that test taken soon. Awesomeness
Wow...First, their strike isn't all about pay. It is about their evaluations, benefits, layoffs, etc. And just because teachers where YOU live have good benefits, doesn't mean they all do. Doesn't mean they all make good money either. Where I live, starting teachers make ~$40,000 a year. To pay off students loans, get a place to live, support a family...it isn't much. And don't go there with the "3 month paid vacation." Teachers are working after school, on weekends, and before school doing lesson plans, meeting with parents, calling parents, grading papers, going to meetings, doing professional development, getting their Masters Degree (which is required to keep certification)...it isn't like they aren't putting in their time in other ways. Teaching, as a profession, is so grossly undervalued in our country it makes me sick. These people are educating the future of our country (our WORLD), and we want to cut their pay, make their class sizes bigger, make their school days and years longer...are you kidding me?
I'll adress the bolded since LO is waking up...
I never said it was all about pay. I said they already got raises and were missing a few of their demands. I also know that not all teachers get great benefits, that's why I said it was on MY area that I saw this happening.
How much do you expect to make starting out? $33-40,000 is decent money (to start), and I live in one of the most expensive areas (top 10) in the country. Yeah it's hard, but you work at it. You can't expect to make a crapload of money starting. It's just like any other job- you work your way up. It may take awhile.... especially in some industries over others, but that's just the way the world works for most people.
I didn't say teachers weren't putting their hard work in otherwise.... however there are many jobs that require work outside of standard work hours where you don't get paid for it. Yeah, it sucks, but you know this ahead of time. When you pick a position like that, you know what you are getting into (at least somewhat). That would be one reason why I didn't choose to be a teacher. I didn't want to have to do that. I realize that in my field of Criminal Justice it is common to be on call, working long hours, etc.... it's not fun but it's what I signed up for and I don't expect to get paid more or treated differently because of it. Would be nice, but not something that's expected.
For the last bolded statement, of course I do appreciate that. My son will be going to school when he is older, and I know that having a great teacher is very important in my child's education. On the same token, there are various other professions that are essential to the way our country is run and they aren't treated with the same respect as teachers.
I will say that part of my feelings in this way are impacted by the "teacher vs. police" issue that has gone on with my country-- teachers were upset about not getting raises and they didn't want their 90% benefits lowered when our county had to cut back. Instead, their union went all crazy with the police union, and had everyone believing that it was more important for them to get more funding and the police to have cutbacks. So you cut back on the number of officers, how much overtime one can pull, how many people answer 911 calls, and what do you get? SCREWED. You cut back the number of people, you are now paying someone else more in overtime and causing them much more stress, which causes them to use their insurance more, higher turnover rates, etc. Makes no sense. Now I hope this explains a bit as to why I feel the way I do.... but I do want to clarify that I realize this is not how it is in the majority of situations
~Working Mom~Breastfeeding Mom~Cloth Diapering Mom~BLW Mom~
Blog - No Longer on the DL ~ The Man Cave
Shawn and Larissa
LO #1 - Took 2 years and 2 IVFs ~ DX - severe MFI mild PCOS homozygous MTHFR (a1298c)
LO #2 - TTC 7 months, surprise spontaneous BFP!
But for someone who is a skilled worker (like a carpenter or plumber), they may not be trained to do other work. Or, for teachers, they wouldn't be able to pay their bills because the work they get wouldn't pay them as much. You can't just say, you've trained for this specialized job, now we'll drop your pay/make your work conditions worse, then oh well, you're SOL. Striking does exactly what it intends-makes the public see how necessary the people in those jobs are, and helps them get what they need to do their jobs effectively.
You choose to be a skilled worker or you choose to be a teacher with a pretty good idea of what the pay's going to be. Striking is just a way of bullying the public. The public already knows that those jobs are necessary.
Now, I have a question for you. Generally when teachers are laid off, or benefits are cut or salaries are reduced, it's because they have to be. There isn't enough money. What exactly, do you expect the result of a strike to be? For money to magically appear out of thin air?
~Working Mom~Breastfeeding Mom~Cloth Diapering Mom~BLW Mom~
Blog - No Longer on the DL ~ The Man Cave
Shawn and Larissa
LO #1 - Took 2 years and 2 IVFs ~ DX - severe MFI mild PCOS homozygous MTHFR (a1298c)
LO #2 - TTC 7 months, surprise spontaneous BFP!
1. Teachers do not have 3 months paid vacation. They have the option to stretch their salary and be paid for the entire year which means smaller paychecks, or only be paid during the school year so they are bringing in 0 while on their "3 month paid vacation".
2. Unions don't go on strike because they are lazy and don't feel like working. They do it for better pay, benefits, etc. my DH is in the CWA Union and he doesn't get raises every quarter or year like most nonunion workers. The pay rate they negotiate is what they are stuck with until their contracts expires anywhere from 35 years later. It might be easy for you to say go find a new job, or you knew thats how it would be from day 1, but it's not that simple. Most union workers have a skilled trade and not a general business degree where there are 100 options.
3. The union doesn't save you from losing your job if you suck as an employee.
4. If your employer didn't give you any incentive to stay at your job after 3 years you would probably leave. That's sort of like a strike except you don't have a union backing you.
How about the higher ups take a pay cut? Our district is top heavy (many people in upper admin.) and they make a heck of a lot more than teachers. Also, as in any organization, I know there is wasteful spending that could be streamlined to go toward more important things.
Yes, exactly. Your teacher pay is based on the number of days in the school year. If we were paid for summer vacation, we would be making more money. Also, it's definitely not 3 months, though people seem to think that. And, I have to reiterate that my day does not begin or end at my contracted time. If we worked to our contract, and only our contract, we wouldn't be able to get done much of what we are expected to do. Each year I have been a teacher the demands have increased and increased. When choosing to be a teacher I knew my pay wouldn't be fantastic, but I had no idea how truly stressful teaching can be. I love it but it's definitely not easy.
I'm only going to briefly chime in here but this type of thinking drives me crazy. If someone works hard to be in their position (extra education, heavier workload, etc.), I honestly think that their salary should reflect that. I'm not saying that teachers don't work hard but they also don't have the same responsibility/work load that upper admin do. A superintendent is responsible for everything that happens in a district, a teacher is responsible for what happens in his/her classroom. The superintendent has a higher responsibility and therefor his payroll should reflect that. I don't think that it's fair for someone who chose to do a lower paying job to demand that others who chose a higher paying route to give up their salary to compensate for them. I do agree that you don't become a teacher for the money (I did it for 5 years) but I think if you are wanting to make better money and have better benefits then you certainly need to reassess your career choice.
I never said that an upper level administrator should make the same as a teacher. But, if teachers are expected to not get a raise or take a cut, why shouldn't they too?
My take on this is that it should work the same way it does in the real world. A CFO or board (school board???) decides and everyone else trusts their wisdom. I personally took a pay cut this year. Some people got raises. It was based on a lot of factors, one of them being the performance of our department and another being the availability of funds. My choices are dealing with it or finding another job. Not showing up to work in protest would get me fired.
~Working Mom~Breastfeeding Mom~Cloth Diapering Mom~BLW Mom~
Blog - No Longer on the DL ~ The Man Cave
Shawn and Larissa
LO #1 - Took 2 years and 2 IVFs ~ DX - severe MFI mild PCOS homozygous MTHFR (a1298c)
LO #2 - TTC 7 months, surprise spontaneous BFP!
My job exists in the real world. Also, it's not that simple to just find anther job. I know plenty of people who would love to change school districts or would love to get a teaching job that's somewhat close to where they live, and there just aren't that many. If my pay were based on my performance, as you said yours is, would that be based on my students' test scores? Something else? Merit pay is a whole different can of worms...
I'm just going to agree with all of this. I chose 26 pay periods, so that way we would have income coming in over the summer.
LOL I laugh hard when people tell me being a teacher is easy. I'd love to tell them how I arrive at 7:30 every morning and leave at 4:15 every afternoon, without hardly a break, oh yeah it's glamorous. But I love it most days.
No pay shouldn't be based on test scores, but yes it should be based on performance. Do you really think that all teachers should get the same pay? Why couldn't it be done in similar ways to how it's done in other professions? Based on how your superiors feel that you performed? It's ridiculous for a group of people to negotiate together.
~Working Mom~Breastfeeding Mom~Cloth Diapering Mom~BLW Mom~
Blog - No Longer on the DL ~ The Man Cave
Shawn and Larissa
LO #1 - Took 2 years and 2 IVFs ~ DX - severe MFI mild PCOS homozygous MTHFR (a1298c)
LO #2 - TTC 7 months, surprise spontaneous BFP!
I think most people here would agree that being a teacher isn't easy.... but don't you expect this? I worked 12 hour + shifts as a 911 operator and barely got the occasional break.... if there's serious emergencies you can forget any breaks! Hold your pee dam*it! But just like teachers... I KNEW what I was getting into. I guess I just don't get why people would complain all the time (and yes... im mainly refering to people in my local area) when they know what is ahead of them, at least on a basic level. Especially when many student teach and see it first hand before they graduate. Don't like it? Don't major in it!
Just to clarify. I don't think that being a teacher is easy. I think it's really hard and that the pay sucks. I even think that our daycare teachers have a really hard job and don't get paid enough.
That said, I also think that unions suck and that striking is the equivalent of throwing a tantrum. I also think that unions create a lot of the pay problems that people complain about. If pay were determined based on each individual rather than on a group, the people that performed well would probably get raises. The people that didn't perform well, wouldn't get raises. That's the way it should be.
How do you measure performance? I guess I don't understand why it's that complicated. At my job, my boss rates me on several factors. I don't get why it couldn't work the same way.
Now, this will get me some hate, but it was mentioned that it's really hard to find a teaching job. That probably means that there are lots of teachers out there that are ready and willing to take jobs at lower rates. In most industries, that drives salaries down. If there are people willing to work for less, well I understand why the district isn't excited about paying more.
~Working Mom~Breastfeeding Mom~Cloth Diapering Mom~BLW Mom~
Blog - No Longer on the DL ~ The Man Cave
Shawn and Larissa
LO #1 - Took 2 years and 2 IVFs ~ DX - severe MFI mild PCOS homozygous MTHFR (a1298c)
LO #2 - TTC 7 months, surprise spontaneous BFP!
This is an incredibly offending ASSumption to make. Teachers work just as hard as everyone else. My aunt is a teacher in California, and was forced to take 15 furlough days throughout the school year so that way schools wouldn't lose their teachers, and students could still come to school. Because one school district is trying to negotiate a contract does not mean every teacher is out for blood.
I'm so glad I'm not in a Union. My district hired 99 teachers this year, which tells me there is a great demand for educators in my state, at this moment.