New AAP recs re: formula marketing

pearblossom · July 2012

https://www2.aap.org/breastfeeding/files/pdf/DivestingfromFormulaMarketinginPediatricCare.pdf

I'm pretty stoked. Your thoughts?

kujayhawkgirl · July 2012

I think it's ridiculous. I agree that BF is the best option. However, I think that a mom who truly wants to BF will not be swayed by handouts of formula products at the hospital or the doctors office. I very much appreciated the free formula and coupons I got from my dr's office when Abby had to go on to Alimentum for medical reasons. I had no control over not being able to 100% BF Abby. Why should I not receive these free handouts? I probably saved about $500 (not an exaggeration) by the coupons and about 15-20 free half-can "samples" of Alimentum.

Nita2603 · July 2012

Wait, what?

Stewartandmaura · July 2012

I think it's okay to hand out the formula samples to mom's who ask for them or indicate that they are planning to formula feed. If a mom says she wants to breastfeed, she should receive as much support as possible to do so. We all know that bfing isn't always possible. Moms that aren't able to bf should receive support too.

Edited to fix grammar error.

LCass · July 2012

I see your point, ku, but you can still get access to free samples without being given them by a doctor in a clinic, right? I mean, I got a bunch of free samples of formula that I signed up for online because I wanted to have some "just in case". I agree that an informed mother who is intending to breastfeed won't be swayed, but what about the uninformed? Or the teen/young moms who haven't thought about it? Being given formula by a doctor can seem like a medical recommendation to ff.

I think there must be a happy middle ground. I know of a place for young, poor moms around here that was offered a bunch of formula samples to give out and they refused to take them. But why not have them to give to people who ask for it? You can even reserve it for people who absolutely can't bf, for whatever reason. I think the same could be done with doctors. They don't have to give the samples to everyone, but when the situation arises they should be able to provide it.

I know, I know, I'm arguing both sides. I'm torn!

anasazi17 · July 2012

kujayhawkgirl:
I think it's ridiculous. I agree that BF is the best option. However, I think that a mom who truly wants to BF will not be swayed by handouts of formula products at the hospital or the doctors office. I very much appreciated the free formula and coupons I got from my dr's office when Abby had to go on to Alimentum for medical reasons. I had no control over not being able to 100% BF Abby. Why should I not receive these free handouts? I probably saved about $500 (not an exaggeration) by the coupons and about 15-20 free half-can "samples" of Alimentum.

I have to agree 100%. The coupons & samples were invaluable to us when we had to switch to formula.

I remember receiving a bunch of coupons, samples etc prior to having Ashlynn and promptly discarding them because I was going to EBF....until that hope was dashed. Proper education on BF vs. FF is crucial, but limiting money saving options is no good.

pearblossom · July 2012

Stewartandmaura:
I think it's okay to hand out the formula samples to mom's who ask for them or indicate that they are planning to formula feed. If a mom says she wants to breastfeed, she should receive as much support as possible to do so. We all know that bfing isn't always possible. Mom's that aren't able to bf could use some support to.

I completely agree. As far as I understand, the AAP is just advising against handing out formula samples as part of the standard hospital welcome basket. I don't think it is as easy as just being set on BF. There is a lot of knowledge to be had about BF that just isn't as readily available as formula samples. I have seen friends of mine struggle with BF and turn to formula because it is so frequently handed out.

When I posted this link on FB, a friend commented "I was told yesterday by kaiser that my insurance won't help me cover the cost of a breast pump even though I am returning to work with ebf baby, but they will give me free formula and coupons "

kujayhawkgirl · July 2012

LCass:

I see your point, ku, but you can still get access to free samples without being given them by a doctor in a clinic, right? I mean, I got a bunch of free samples of formula that I signed up for online because I wanted to have some "just in case". I agree that an informed mother who is intending to breastfeed won't be swayed, but what about the uninformed? Or the teen/young moms who haven't thought about it? Being given formula by a doctor can seem like a medical recommendation to ff.

I think there must be a happy middle ground. I know of a place for young, poor moms around here that was offered a bunch of formula samples to give out and they refused to take them. But why not have them to give to people who ask for it? You can even reserve it for people who absolutely can't bf, for whatever reason. I think the same could be done with doctors. They don't have to give the samples to everyone, but when the situation arises they should be able to provide it.

I know, I know, I'm arguing both sides. I'm torn!

You can't get free samples of the special formula Abby is on, except for from doctors.

You make a good point, though, about the uninformed mothers. I like the idea of educating the uninformed about both BF and FF -- they should be able to make their own decision, not be swayed one way or the other.

LCass · July 2012

kujayhawkgirl:
LCass:

I see your point, ku, but you can still get access to free samples without being given them by a doctor in a clinic, right? I mean, I got a bunch of free samples of formula that I signed up for online because I wanted to have some "just in case". I agree that an informed mother who is intending to breastfeed won't be swayed, but what about the uninformed? Or the teen/young moms who haven't thought about it? Being given formula by a doctor can seem like a medical recommendation to ff.

I think there must be a happy middle ground. I know of a place for young, poor moms around here that was offered a bunch of formula samples to give out and they refused to take them. But why not have them to give to people who ask for it? You can even reserve it for people who absolutely can't bf, for whatever reason. I think the same could be done with doctors. They don't have to give the samples to everyone, but when the situation arises they should be able to provide it.

I know, I know, I'm arguing both sides. I'm torn!

You can't get free samples of the special formula Abby is on, except for from doctors.

You make a good point, though, about the uninformed mothers. I like the idea of educating the uninformed about both BF and FF -- they should be able to make their own decision, not be swayed one way or the other.

See, and that's the kind of situation where 100% they should be able to help you out!

Elsa1984 · July 2012

I was planning to EBF Gator until she was born and had to be on Alimentium just to keep food down for the first 6mo. That shiz-nit is expensive....a small canister is around $30 here. So I was thankful for the coupons that came in the mail.

That being said, the hospital I delivered at refuses to give out any samples or anything to do with formula. Same with the doctors offices. The Kaiser facilities in my area are HUGE on BF-ing and will try and get you whatever services you need to help you with BF-ing (free lactation consultant, support groups, etc). Obviously it's another story if the mom or baby has medical reasons for needing formula, but they will still not give you samples or coupons, you have to contact the formula companies yourself.

sharksfan · July 2012

pearblossom:
When I posted this link on FB, a friend commented "I was told yesterday by kaiser that my insurance won't help me cover the cost of a breast pump even though I am returning to work with ebf baby, but they will give me free formula and coupons "

That amazes me because kaiser is so pro-BF. For reasons I'm not going to get into, I had to FF from day one. I had to listen to every single nurse tell me the advantages of BFing every time they came to check on me for 4 days, most of whom wore "Breast is Best" buttons. (This could perhaps be added to the earlier vent about nurses not fully reading a patient's file.) They wouldn't bring me formula until my doctor came in and told them that BF wasn't happening for me. I totally get the concerns people have from getting the samples at hospitals, but there can be a happy medium without completely taking away the hospital's ability to hand them out. Would it be so bad to make it policy to only give them away when asked?

Nita2603 · July 2012

I cannot get the link to work for me, but from the answers above I think I get an idea.

Generally, I am all for promoting breast feeding. It is after all the best for mother and child. However, there are those of us who really really try to do it and can't. I was one of them. I saw three (!) LCs, two doctors, I went on about every supplement there is and then on a prescription medication. Once I finally had some milk coming in, they decided I had to go on meds for my Crohn's flare up and that I couldn't give him the little bit of milk I had. I kept pumping, but you know, when you keep puking up every single scrap of food you get down, there isn't much milk to be produced. Once they got me off the meds six weeks later - in which I pumped and dumped every 2 hours, next to puking and taking care of my kid and feeling like the worst failure as a mother and a woman ever, I had about an ounce per day left. I guess my milk never 'really' came in due to the flare up. Whatever it was, it made me feel like sh!t.

Honestly, whenever I had to go in for weight checks during the time when we were still trying, I already felt like scum - mainly because he would have lost more weight again. Yes, I was feeling like I was starving him.

Quite frankly, when my doctor finally gave me those two cans of formula (and by then we had already supplemented and all - I mean, we've had some samples at home which I had signed up for online and all....being convinced I would donate them later, since I didn't plan to use them - HA!)...I broke down sobbing hysterically. To me that was the seal to the 'you are not a completely functioning woman' verdict.

And really, the samples helped us saving a lot of money. So did the coupons we received from the doc. Formula is expensive. Really expensive. It is not like it puts us in trouble, but it would have been easier, a LOT easier, if I could have done what I so desperately wanted.

And....if after feeling like that big fat failure...I would NOT have asked for samples. After that feeling of not being able to provide for my young, after all that struggle....I felt humiliated and so insufficient. It would have been like begging for me, and I would not have done that.

So....don't get me wrong. I fully plan to try again. I am willing to take the heartache, the pain and all that. And if I fail again, then so be it. But if I do fail I will still not beg for formula samples or coupons. If somebody offers, than I will gratefully take them. But I will not ask for them. Because I still need to be able to get out of there with my head held up high. And that is the tiny little thing which keeps me able to do so.

ellewoodsSC · July 2012

I think it's rather extreme, but all across the board, doctors and medical schools are severing ties with pharmaceutical sponsorship and freebies. I never felt like I was pushed on to formula because samples and coupons were available at the dr's office, but then again I felt informed on what's best for my infant and I was intending to BF from the start. I picked up a few sample bags and they were actually breastfeeding support packs, which included breastfeeding literature, cooler bags with ice packs, etc. I kept the formula sample for a few months, just in case there was in issue with BF.

pearblossom · July 2012

Wow, Nita. I never saw it that way. Thank you for sharing.

In all of the instances that have been mentioned here, they seem to be perfectly legit reasons for a doctor to offer formula. I think what the AAP takes issue with (as do I) is the samples given out to women simply because they are having or will have a baby. I received numerous formula samples in the mail and through our 3D sonogram place that I did not request. I felt bombarded, honestly.

[Deleted User] · July 2012

kujayhawkgirl:
You make a good point, though, about the uninformed mothers. I like the idea of educating the uninformed about both BF and FF -- they should be able to make their own decision, not be swayed one way or the other.

I haven't read all of the thread yet, and this is probably flameful but I'm going to say it anyway.

I disagree with the bolded. I think hospitals should be swaying women toward breastfeeding. Hospitals should be pushing the healthiest options for their patients in all areas, including in L&D. Unless there is a medical reason why a woman won't be able to breastfeed, hospitals should be doing as much as they can to convince her that she can and should, and they should be providing more help to get her started.

Formula gift bags are a mixed message that make no sense to me. Why should hospitals let corporate reps for any kind of product advertise to their patients?

Nita2603 · July 2012

pearblossom:
Wow, Nita. I never saw it that way. Thank you for sharing.
In all of the instances that have been mentioned here, they seem to be perfectly legit reasons for a doctor to offer formula. I think what the AAP takes issue with (as do I) is the samples given out to women simply because they are having or will have a baby. I received numerous formula samples in the mail and through our 3D sonogram place that I did not request. I felt bombarded, honestly.

No problem. It may even be silly to feel like that, but really, everyone has their breaking point and that would be mine.

I totally understand what you are saying as well, Pear. But in the end, if there is a can of formula in the mail or whatever, it is good to have - I don't think moms get really influenced by a few samples. And those who would decide on grounds of that, would not make it through the first few weeks anyways - cracked nipples, clogged ducts, screaming babies and whatnot.....you don't make it through that unless you really want to.

And whatever you don't use yourself, you can trade (I have traded Similac for Good Start a lot of times) or donate. Either way, it still doesn't go to waste and reaches somebody who needs it.

jonnygurl76 · July 2012

I think it is a huge step in the right direction.

I found it insulting to have it pushed on me at the hospital even though I declined it several times. If you want to set up new mothers for success don't send them home with an 'in case you fail' back up plan.

lissfriedrice · July 2012

I am in the camp where I think formula shouldn't be handed out, but I do understand the cases people have talked about here in their experience. I have found a society that is way more about formula than breastfeeding. I hadn't realized how controversial it was until I had the baby. I have been called a hippie, been tried to give formula coupons at a military grocery store and looked at strange for saying I breastfeed. Had a friend offended and walk away for me breastfeeding and was told by my husband I need to make sure people wouldn't be offended first. (I cover up/no exposure). My doctor would only give me a month of the mini pill. I had to get her to call the pharmacy so I could get 3 months. I can only asume from her exerience her patients dont continue to breastfeed or the majority anyway. I was given formula at the hospital, in the mail and at the 3D ultrasound place. Formula feeding is the norm and more prevelant in my experience. I think it is pushed way more than it should be, and all for this change.

nicki731 · July 2012

jonnygurl76:
I think it is a huge step in the right direction.
I found it insulting to have it pushed on me at the hospital even though I declined it several times. If you want to set up new mothers for success don't send them home with an 'in case you fail' back up plan.

I see your point JG... but being one of the ones who did fail, I was glad to have a back up plan when my baby was starving. I was absolutely set on bf'ing and I really really tried -- I worked with a LC but my anatomy just did not allow me to breast feed G. (I pumped and supplemented for a few weeks but didn't have the support to keep it up and then went to formula eventually.)

HappyAardvark · July 2012

nicki731:
jonnygurl76:
I think it is a huge step in the right direction.? I found it insulting to have it pushed on me at the hospital even though I declined it several times. If you want to set up new mothers for success don't send them home with an 'in case you fail' back up plan. ?
I see your point JG... but being one of the ones who did fail, I was glad to have a back up plan when my baby was starving. I was absolutely set on bf'ing and I really really tried -- I worked with a LC but my anatomy just did not allow me to breast feed G. (I pumped and supplemented for a few weeks but didn't have the support to keep it up and then went to formula eventually.)? ?

This is going to sound c untier than I mean to, but there are no late-night/24-hour stores within 15 miles of your house??

? Unrelated to the quoted text above, formula companies know that the temptation to.use formula will be much greater (especially in a moment of desperation/new mom anxiety or self-doubt) if you have it in the house. Then as we all know, the more you supplement, the more likely it is that at some point in the near future, you will move to formula exclusively. This is not a judgment, just reality.?

Also, I just think any outrage over this is a reflection on a very real problem with our society - people have come to expect and feel they deserve free handouts. Nothing is free - the cost of those goods is built in elsewhere in the margins. For people who really, legitimately need to ff their babies, wouldn't it be great if the cost of that product was closer to the actual cost of goods without padding in so much extra markup for the millions of packets and containers of "free samples" that are given without solicitation to every woman who gets a + HPT?

kujayhawkgirl · July 2012

jonnygurl76:

I think it is a huge step in the right direction.

I found it insulting to have it pushed on me at the hospital even though I declined it several times. If you want to set up new mothers for success don't send them home with an 'in case you fail' back up plan.

I definitely agree that hospitals and doctors shouldn't push FF on any mother. I like PP's ideas that if a mother asks, then she can be supplied with coupons and samples.

kujayhawkgirl · July 2012

HappyAardvark:

Unrelated to the quoted text above, formula companies know that the temptation to.use formula will be much greater (especially in a moment of desperation/new mom anxiety or self-doubt) if you have it in the house. Then as we all know, the more you supplement, the more likely it is that at some point in the near future, you will move to formula exclusively. This is not a judgment, just reality.

Also, I just think any outrage over this is a reflection on a very real problem with our society - people have come to expect and feel they deserve free handouts. Nothing is free - the cost of those goods is built in elsewhere in the margins. For people who really, legitimately need to ff their babies, wouldn't it be great if the cost of that product was closer to the actual cost of goods without padding in so much extra markup for the millions of packets and containers of "free samples" that are given without solicitation to every woman who gets a + HPT?

I completely understand your logic. However, manufactures (of millions of things, not just formula) are probably never going to stop giving away free samples -- they are a wonderful marketing tool. Sh!t, I even get free whole months of my birth control.

As I mentioned before, I accepted lots of free samples and coupons for Abby's Alimentum. Like Nita, I didn't ever beg for them, nor did I even ask for them. I sure as he!l glady accepted them, especially in light of over $10,000 in medical bills from Abby's hospital stays and surgeries. I do NOT feel entitled to free handouts, but I will take them whey they are offered. We would have been fine without them, but they were very much appreciated when we did get them.

Gipper0809 · July 2012

I'm also one of those woman whose body didn't work. I have extremely complicated c/s and recoveries and my milk truly hasn't come in with either child. My lactation consultant told me that my body was working overtime to heal from the surgery/complications and producing milk wasn't high on its priority list.

It stunk. I tried pumping, but never got even an ounce. I don't know what the nurses wanted me to do but they pushed and pushed me to breastfeed and my babies were so unhappy. I felt like I was doing something to harm my children--which we know formula isn't harmful. I get breast is best--I really would have loved for it to work--heck, it's an awful lot cheaper! I just didn't appreciate the attitude I received from those around me. I didn't need to be made to feel even more guilty than I already did.

There has to be a happy medium. Make resources available for moms whichever way they choose to go. Don't be judgmental about it and support them regardless of which route they go. I don't know. Maybe that's too much to ask.

HappyAardvark · July 2012

kujayhawkgirl:
HappyAardvark:

Unrelated to the quoted text above, formula companies know that the temptation to.use formula will be much greater (especially in a moment of desperation/new mom anxiety or self-doubt) if you have it in the house. Then as we all know, the more you supplement, the more likely it is that at some point in the near future, you will move to formula exclusively. This is not a judgment, just reality.

Also, I just think any outrage over this is a reflection on a very real problem with our society - people have come to expect and feel they deserve free handouts. Nothing is free - the cost of those goods is built in elsewhere in the margins. For people who really, legitimately need to ff their babies, wouldn't it be great if the cost of that product was closer to the actual cost of goods without padding in so much extra markup for the millions of packets and containers of "free samples" that are given without solicitation to every woman who gets a + HPT?

I completely understand your logic. However, manufactures (of millions of things, not just formula) are probably never going to stop giving away free samples -- they are a wonderful marketing tool. Sh!t, I even get free whole months of my birth control.

As I mentioned before, I accepted lots of free samples and coupons for Abby's Alimentum. Like Nita, I didn't ever beg for them, nor did I even ask for them. I sure as he!l glady accepted them, especially in light of over $10,000 in medical bills from Abby's hospital stays and surgeries. I do NOT feel entitled to free handouts, but I will take them whey they are offered. We would have been fine without them, but they were very much appreciated when we did get them.

well yes, the budget of any financially-viable company will include a healthy marketing budget. This goes for not only formula companies, but pharmaceutical, cosmetic, food, beverage, and nearly every single other product that is "consumed" (edible or not). You don't grow a business without bringing in new customers, and you are more likely to convert new customers if they are able to try and adopt your product without any financial risk.

karinothing · July 2012

OK. I admit I didn't read all the responses BUT here it goes

1. Hospitals are NOT going to deny formula to mom's that need it. They will give formula samples when a mom asks. What they will NOT do is offer it w/out asking.

2. Studies show that most mom's stick with the formula that they were given a sample of in the hospitals. The general reasoning being it was given by my doctor so it must be what my baby needs. These tend to be the most expensive formulas and are more of a burden on low income women (and yes, I know we all like to say "well i didn't stick with the samples" but each of us is an ancedote NOT a study.

3. The APP has come out to say that BFing is a public health issue NOT a lifestyle choice. As sad or upsetting as it may be hospitals are in charge of protecting the public health. They do not have a duty to not be judgmental or protect anyones feelings. I know that probably sounds harsh, but you really have to look at it from a medical perspective not a "I am a mother" perspective.

4. While I know that having a free sample is helpful, it is not like people get free breastpumps, or nursing bras, or home visits from the lactaction consultant (but maybe this is just jealousy).

Anyway, I have no issue with this since hospitals will still give out formula if mom's need it.

The biggest issue behind laws supporting the ban is NOT that hospitals will no longer give out formula gift bags but rather than now hospitals will have to pay for formula instead of getting it for free from reps. Hospitals are pissed about this.

KrisM86 · July 2012

I think it is wonderful!!

Yes, mothers who request information/samples of formula should be able to get them without a problem. However, there are SO many mothers who are uneducated about breastfeeding and all its benefits, and when they have formula shoved down their throats at the hospital, it makes it much more difficult for them to choose to breastfeed.

It is crazy to me that in many hospitals, it is difficult to get an LC and/or get real help with breastfeeding, but there are formula samples and pamphlets handed to you the second you walk through the door.

KrisM86 · July 2012

pearblossom:
Wow, Nita. I never saw it that way. Thank you for sharing.
In all of the instances that have been mentioned here, they seem to be perfectly legit reasons for a doctor to offer formula. I think what the AAP takes issue with (as do I) is the samples given out to women simply because they are having or will have a baby. I received numerous formula samples in the mail and through our 3D sonogram place that I did not request. I felt bombarded, honestly.

Agreed. This was my experience as well. While I was pregnant, I once had a note from USPS on my door saying I had missed a package delivery. I hadn't ordered anything, so I thought it might be a baby gift. I ended up waiting for nearly an hour at the post office to get handed a freaking box of formula samples. I was pretty pi$$ed about the whole thing, but I donated them to a local pregnancy center, so I hope someone benefited!

kujayhawkgirl · July 2012

I guess in the end, I realize that I didn't have nearly the experience as many of you are describing with formula being shoved down my throat. My OB, pedi, and hospital all asked what I wanted to do, which was EBF. While we were in the hospital, nobody ever asked if we wanted formula samples and our pedi never said anything until we had to start supplementing, which is a choice MH and I made together, and we were not forced into it by a doctor who was pushing formula.

What I would want is for a mother to have my experience -- be educated about both sides, hopefully choose BF since it is best, and then not be inundated with FF unless you ask for information and/or samples.

cantalopes24 · July 2012

HappyAardvark:
This is going to sound c untier than I mean to, but there are no late-night/24-hour stores within 15 miles of your house?

Trust me when I say that at 2 am when you are dealing with a screaming starving baby, especially when you are recovering from a c-section and it hurts to move around, the last thing you want to do is drive to the store or sit in the house with said screaming baby while someone else does it or even sit in the house alone while someone takes your screaming starving baby to the store. If the hospitals didn't give away free formula samples I would have bought some to have on hand before my kids were born. I physically wasn't able to produce milk with E and even though we've done some kind of supplementing with Lo from day 1 because of her weight loss in the hospital I've managed to EP all this time. No one in the hospitals mentioned formula until (1) I asked (2) there was an issue with weight loss. Not to mention the samples I get from the GI save me $200+ a month.

memo9 · July 2012

overture:
kujayhawkgirl:
You make a good point, though, about the uninformed mothers. I like the idea of educating the uninformed about both BF and FF -- they should be able to make their own decision, not be swayed one way or the other.
I haven't read all of the thread yet, and this is probably flameful but I'm going to say it anyway.
I disagree with the bolded. I think hospitals should be swaying women toward breastfeeding. Hospitals should be pushing the healthiest options for their patients in all areas, including in L&D. Unless there is a medical reason why a woman won't be able to breastfeed, hospitals should be doing as much as they can to convince her that she can and should, and they should be providing more help to get her started.
Formula gift bags are a mixed message that make no sense to me. Why should hospitals let corporate reps for any kind of product advertise to their patients?

ITA. I feel like "free" samples should actually be given to people who need them OR be eliminated completely to lower costs for consumers.

Fianschneid · July 2012

I received samples of everything from formula to diapers to breast pads when I was expecting. I reviewed everything I received, tossed what I didn't want and kept what I did.

DD happened to have been formula fed and, like others, I appreciated the freebies and the huge savings. If I hadn't wanted them, I would have tossed them. I never felt that the doctors were forcing them on me. The always offered and I had the opportunity to decline.

Upon learning that my daughter wasn't breastfed, my doctor even (gasp!) told me that she and I could still be healthy, functional human beings, rather than shaming me and making me feel guilty.

aliciaroset · July 2012

It's no surprise that this has everybody riled up because it's such a divisive topic, and making sweeping generalizations makes every mom feel like they're not being represented. I'm glad everybody feels comfortable enough to share their stories here and with people wouldn't take these recommendations as judgement of how they feed their babies. I just want to review what the AAP actually says:

First, it should be noted that these are RECOMMENDATIONS. It doesn't not describe any prohibitions or law.

The document says that it has been conclusively shown that breastfeeding rates are negatively impacted by the distribution of formula samples (i.e. marketing tools) from hospitals and clinics. (and that this is especially true of certain populations, specifically mothers who are first time moms, non-white, less educated, or ill after the birth.)

Because the AAP recognizes that breastfeeding produces healthier infants in general, they cannot appear as endorsing formula feeding over breastfeeding. By giving out freebies, be they samples, gifts, or coupons, they are implicitly endorsing formula (and even specific formula companies). And like someone else said, hospitals and clinics in general are moving away from corporate partnerships.

What this does not mean is that you can't get free samples or coupons. It doesn't mean that the formula company can't send things to you directly. It just means that your doctor, who has been shown that not breastfeeding does have negative health implications, should not advertise for formula companies.

As far as I can tell, the recommendations don't say anything about a mother requesting formula. I think if the mother requests it they can provide it without violating the recommendations.

It should be noted, too, that hospitals who are using the "baby friendly" recommendations (https://www.babyfriendlyusa.org/eng/index.html) already don't give out formula swag. My hospital gave us a tiny container of premixed formula, but I think that's only because we were having trouble with breastfeeding while in the hospital and my milk still hadn't come in.

Mrs. Mo · July 2012

kujayhawkgirl:

I guess in the end, I realize that I didn't have nearly the experience as many of you are describing with formula being shoved down my throat. My OB, pedi, and hospital all asked what I wanted to do, which was EBF. While we were in the hospital, nobody ever asked if we wanted formula samples and our pedi never said anything until we had to start supplementing, which is a choice MH and I made together, and we were not forced into it by a doctor who was pushing formula.

What I would want is for a mother to have my experience -- be educated about both sides, hopefully choose BF since it is best, and then not be inundated with FF unless you ask for information and/or samples.

Same here, however, once I told them we would be FF, they freely offered up the samples. The first question they asked me when I got to the hospital was what I planned to do.

Had DD's pedi not given us several cans of Nutramegin or told us to call the office once a week to see if they have any to give us, we would have been in a tougher financial spot (esp while I was still out on maternity leave). The pedi even hooked us up by having their rep send a whole case (6 cans) of the full size cans to our house. Yes, I understand that docs/hospitals shouldn't push FF on anyone but they also should not be restricted from helping out people whose insurance refuses to cover any (even prescription) formula.

[Deleted User] · July 2012

cantalopes24:
Trust me when I say that at 2 am when you are dealing with a screaming starving baby, especially when you are recovering from a c-section and it hurts to move around, the last thing you want to do is drive to the store or sit in the house with said screaming baby while someone else does it or even sit in the house alone while someone takes your screaming starving baby to the store. If the hospitals didn't give away free formula samples I would have bought some to have on hand before my kids were born. I physically wasn't able to produce milk with E and even though we've done some kind of supplementing with Lo from day 1 because of her weight loss in the hospital I've managed to EP all this time. No one in the hospitals mentioned formula until (1) I asked (2) there was an issue with weight loss. Not to mention the samples I get from the GI save me $200+ a month.

If women want to be prepared in case they need to FF, this is what they should do. We don't expect free samples of anything else, why is this different?

Because the formula you feed Lo is a specialty product, I think it's great that her doctor gives out samples. A GI or a pedi's office, where it's been established that FF is going to be part of her diet, is the appropriate place for this. L&D, where women might still be deciding how they're going to feed, is not the place.

cantalopes24 · July 2012

overture:
cantalopes24:
Trust me when I say that at 2 am when you are dealing with a screaming starving baby, especially when you are recovering from a c-section and it hurts to move around, the last thing you want to do is drive to the store or sit in the house with said screaming baby while someone else does it or even sit in the house alone while someone takes your screaming starving baby to the store. If the hospitals didn't give away free formula samples I would have bought some to have on hand before my kids were born. I physically wasn't able to produce milk with E and even though we've done some kind of supplementing with Lo from day 1 because of her weight loss in the hospital I've managed to EP all this time. No one in the hospitals mentioned formula until (1) I asked (2) there was an issue with weight loss. Not to mention the samples I get from the GI save me $200+ a month.
If women want to be prepared in case they need to FF, this is what they should do. We don't expect free samples of anything else, why is this different?
Because the formula you feed Lo is a specialty product, I think it's great that her doctor gives out samples. A GI or a pedi's office, where it's been established that FF is going to be part of her diet, is the appropriate place for this. L&D, where women might still be deciding how they're going to feed, is not the place.

But plenty of people have decided and there are people that benefit. I don't think the nurses should be telling people to FF unless they've stated that is what they want, but I don't think giving out samples to people who ask or need it is wrong.

karinothing · July 2012

cantalopes24:
overture:
cantalopes24:

Trust me when I say that at 2 am when you are dealing with a screaming starving baby, especially when you are recovering from a c-section and it hurts to move around, the last thing you want to do is drive to the store or sit in the house with said screaming baby while someone else does it or even sit in the house alone while someone takes your screaming starving baby to the store. If the hospitals didn't give away free formula samples I would have bought some to have on hand before my kids were born. I physically wasn't able to produce milk with E and even though we've done some kind of supplementing with Lo from day 1 because of her weight loss in the hospital I've managed to EP all this time. No one in the hospitals mentioned formula until (1) I asked (2) there was an issue with weight loss. Not to mention the samples I get from the GI save me $200+ a month.

If women want to be prepared in case they need to FF, this is what they should do. We don't expect free samples of anything else, why is this different?

Because the formula you feed Lo is a specialty product, I think it's great that her doctor gives out samples. A GI or a pedi's office, where it's been established that FF is going to be part of her diet, is the appropriate place for this. L&D, where women might still be deciding how they're going to feed, is not the place.

But plenty of people have decided and there are people that benefit. I don't think the nurses should be telling people to FF unless they've stated that is what they want, but I don't think giving out samples to people who ask or need it is wrong.

But the recommendation (and the laws which are in place) do not ban formula samples if the woman asks.

Liz4444 · July 2012

What I don't understand is why people who plan on BFing get so insulted when they are offered formula samples. Say no and move on, no one is forcing it into the babies mouth. I've said this before because it really makes no sense to me. When we were at the birthing class at the hospital, they said we will have to ask for an epidural, if we want formula, a paci, etc, because people get so up in arms over being asked when they do not want them that they have stopped asking, there were actually threats of law suits over being asked. I think it's silly, it's a question, an offer, if you don't want it, don't take it. However, don't make it harder for the people who do want it to get it.

My hospital didn't give welcome baskets, and I'm not the type of person to say, 'hey, what free stuff can you give me', but I did have to give Li formula in the hospital because they weren't sure if my meds were causing her low heart rate and they wanted to monitor her first before BFing. My drs office also never handed me anything, they had samples in a bag on the front desk, they said, if you want them, take them. It was nice for DH not to have to go running to to CVS at 11pm.

A lot of people, if something isn't offered, won't know that it's an option or might be too embarassed to ask, why take that away from them because you are overy sensitive about something? And, yes, I'm sorry if some of you find this insulting, but if you get so butt-hurt over being offered formula, then I think you are overly sensitive.

Mrs. Mo · July 2012

Liz4444:

What I don't understand is why people who plan on BFing get so insulted when they are offered formula samples. Say no and move on, no one is forcing it into the babies mouth. I've said this before because it really makes no sense to me. When we were at the birthing class at the hospital, they said we will have to ask for an epidural, if we want formula, a paci, etc, because people get so up in arms over being asked when they do not want them that they have stopped asking, there were actually threats of law suits over being asked. I think it's silly, it's a question, an offer, if you don't want it, don't take it. However, don't make it harder for the people who do want it to get it.

My hospital didn't give welcome baskets, and I'm not the type of person to say, 'hey, what free stuff can you give me', but I did have to give Li formula in the hospital because they weren't sure if my meds were causing her low heart rate and they wanted to monitor her first before BFing. My drs office also never handed me anything, they had samples in a bag on the front desk, they said, if you want them, take them. It was nice for DH not to have to go running to to CVS at 11pm.

A lot of people, if something isn't offered, won't know that it's an option or might be too embarassed to ask, why take that away from them because you are overy sensitive about something? And, yes, I'm sorry if some of you find this insulting, but if you get so butt-hurt over being offered formula, then I think you are overly sensitive.

I agree. The hospital never offered me a basket to take home. One of the night nurses "clued me in" that people just tend to take any left over RTF bottles & diapers they have in their room when they go home. So, that is what we did. Had that nurse never told us it was ok to do so, we wouldn't have. I honestly would have thought that they were keeping track and would bill us for the extras (heck, they billed us for practically everything else). Also, had the pedi never told us that they gets cans free from the formula rep and that it was ok to call every week to see if she stopped by, we wouldn't have. I would have actually been a bit embarrassed to just call them like that on my own.

Fianschneid · July 2012

Mrs. Mo:
Liz4444:

What I don't understand is why people who plan on BFing get so insulted when they are offered formula samples. Say no and move on, no one is forcing it into the babies mouth. I've said this before because it really makes no sense to me. When we were at the birthing class at the hospital, they said we will have to ask for an epidural, if we want formula, a paci, etc, because people get so up in arms over being asked when they do not want them that they have stopped asking, there were actually threats of law suits over being asked. I think it's silly, it's a question, an offer, if you don't want it, don't take it. However, don't make it harder for the people who do want it to get it.

My hospital didn't give welcome baskets, and I'm not the type of person to say, 'hey, what free stuff can you give me', but I did have to give Li formula in the hospital because they weren't sure if my meds were causing her low heart rate and they wanted to monitor her first before BFing. My drs office also never handed me anything, they had samples in a bag on the front desk, they said, if you want them, take them. It was nice for DH not to have to go running to to CVS at 11pm.

A lot of people, if something isn't offered, won't know that it's an option or might be too embarassed to ask, why take that away from them because you are overy sensitive about something? And, yes, I'm sorry if some of you find this insulting, but if you get so butt-hurt over being offered formula, then I think you are overly sensitive.

I agree. The hospital never offered me a basket to take home. One of the night nurses "clued me in" that people just tend to take any left over RTF bottles & diapers they have in their room when they go home. So, that is what we did. Had that nurse never told us it was ok to do so, we wouldn't have. I honestly would have thought that they were keeping track and would bill us for the extras (heck, they billed us for practically everything else). Also, had the pedi never told us that they gets cans free from the formula rep and that it was ok to call every week to see if she stopped by, we wouldn't have. I would have actually been a bit embarrassed to just call them like that on my own.

This. A lot of people don't think it is appropriate to ask for free things. One of the nurses told me I could take packages of anything that had already been opened, like diapers, formula, etc. It was really helpful.

Also, I totally took the opened packages of disposable underware and gave them to my friends as a joke at Christmas. Embarrassed

Liz4444 · July 2012

I have a hypothetical scenario for you ladies. What if this under-educated, ill-informed, maleable brained woman who would formula feed solely for the fact she was given samples wasn't given them and was told only breast feed. Now, what if, when this woman and her baby go home, her milk doesn't come in. She doesn't know that it's not coming in, her baby is screaming, but she obviously doesn't think it's hunger, it's a baby, they cry. She doesn't necesarily know about or have the money for lactiation consultants or know of LLL, and she's probably not pumping. Now, her baby is starving itself to death until they see the pedi which is at least a week, because all she was told was BF, BF, BF, and no one told her any of her other options for fear of insulting her or because they are no longer allowed.

[Deleted User] · July 2012

I don't think that scenario is at all likely, Liz. How does a woman not know if her milk is coming in? If the baby is starving, the doctor will figure it out and recommend the best remedy, whether that is forumla or an LC. Women don't learn about formula strictly from the hospital, just like they don't about BFing. Poor, uneducated women still take their babies to the doctor.

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