Vent/possible reality check needed

mae0111 · June 2012

I'm rapidly approaching the end of my rope, and I was hoping you might be able to offer some advice... or a slap.. whichever you think...

DH has been traveling a ton for work. Normally he's gone maybe for one or two nights every other week. In the past 2 months (43 working days) he's been gone for 31 days. In this time, he also went camping for a weekend with his friends. He's got an overnight guys night at the beginning of July, and a 5 day camping trip planned at the beginning of August.

He just told me that he's got another project starting up again in July, very similar to the one that has caused him to be away for most of May and June. He told me this about 3 days after he told me that he would NEVER had another project like this again.

His travel is wearing on me. Work stuff is slipping, and I just can't seem to catch up. I feel like I haven't had a break in weeks. I even asked him to start looking for a new job, because I can't handle the constant travel.

If he's going to be gone for most of July, I don't want him to go on his camping trip in August. I don't think it's fair to me or to DD. He strongly disagrees, and feels he should be able to go because he's been working so hard. It is not an option for DD and I to go with him for a lot of reasons.

Am I being unreasonable? Sorry so long!!

mexicolombiana · June 2012

Let me just say that if my DH was gone for work most of the time, you better believe he would NOT be camping on his free time, or he would be dead, and I would have been the one that killed him.

jnealet · June 2012

No, not unreasonable. I do see his side of things, he's working his butt off, he wants to relax but he's forgetting about his family and his wife doing double duty at work and at home.

Can he take just DD with him - how old is she? Then he would get away and you would have a break too. And it just may help him to remember how tough it is to take care of a child.

fcp1234 · June 2012

I agree with you. I am all for doing our own things here and there..but family and relationship come first.

DH used to travel alot for work too and I know how it feels. There were times that I couldnt wait for him to get home, so I could just go for a ten min walk. Sometimes I kinda was out the door the min he came back..horrible I know..

I dont think you need a reality check. I would be upset too about the fun trips. Yea he works hard, but so do you. You need a break too. Oh and about him working hard, Im not saying he might not, but my husband told me going away for work was kinda a nice break for him, he could sleep all night ( DS wasnt sleeping well at the time), eat dinner without a screaming baby etc..

526SadieSadie · June 2012

mexicolombiana:
Let me just say that if my DH was gone for work most of the time, you better believe he would NOT be camping on his free time, or he would be dead, and I would have been the one that killed him.

526SadieSadie · June 2012

mexicolombiana:
Let me just say that if my DH was gone for work most of the time, you better believe he would NOT be camping on his free time, or he would be dead, and I would have been the one that killed him.

Agreed. There needs to be bonding time with his child and couple time with his wife. My DH doesn't travel for work but at least 4 out of 5 work days a week, he's home pretty late, sometimes even after I put DD to bed (8:30-9).

If he weren't spending so much mandatory (ie work-related) time away I'd say let him have his camping trip, but I don't think you'd be unreasonable at all in asking him to skip it.

itsmevkb · June 2012

Is your husband perhaps my husband's long lost brother?

My husband tends to want time away doing something he loves, like fishing, after he's been very stressed at work for long periods of time. And I can completely understand that. However, I also understand where you're coming from in that you want him home because I get like that as well. I sometimes just stare at my husband thinking are you kidding me? In the end we usually find a way to compromise. Can your husband go on the camping trip for half the week? Can you get away somewhere once he's back home?

I think the travel for work is a separate issue.

ksyknelvr73 · June 2012

I can see where this is wearing on you - we went through something similar (as far as the work situation) last fall. DH is a teacher and was coaching football as well, and unfortunately high school football is taken very seriously at the school he's at. He was coaching 6 days a week on top of his full time teaching job. I was literally responsible for DS 6 days a week BY MYSELF. He coached from the beginning of August to the end of November and by the time he was done, I was literally on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I needed a BREAK.

All that being said, only as far as work goes - he really can't help it if he is assigned a project with a lot of travel. His work is his work, and it doesn't seem like it is negotiable. I think you will have to suck it up as far as his job goes.

Aside from his job though, I would ABSOLUTELY NOT be okay with him going on his little 5 day trip in August. No way in hell. I am baffled that he actually thinks that is okay. Of course he has been working hard and "needs a break" but SO DO YOU. That seems incredibly selfish to me.

I don't know what you can say to him to make him understand, but I don't think you're being unreasonable.

Is there any way you can let a family member or a babysitter watch your child for a little while so that you can have a mental break? Just a few hours, to either catch up on sleep or read or get your nails done, whatever it is, it seems like it'd be VERY worth it. Don't be afraid to ask for help!

mae0111 · June 2012

CTGirl30:

I think you need to learn to deal with the week to week required travel - why is it affecting YOUR work?

It's affecting my work because I can't stay late to catch up while he's gone. I don't have any family willing to step in on a regular basis to help out. I've tried to catch up at home, but honestly, after getting up at 6am, commuting an hour (working on the train where I can), working all day without a lunch break most days, commuting an hour home, running around with DD until bedtime, then grabbing something quick to eat, I'm too tired to focus.

I've gotten a ton of additional responsibilities at work at the beginning of the year. We'd been balancing well when he only traveled a bit, but when his travel picked up, it became almost impossible.

I understand he needs an outlet. e just had a camping trip 3 weeks ago, and he's got another overnight with the guys for a baseball game in 2 weeks. I thought that was enough. Perhaps not...

fcp1234 · June 2012

It doesnt matter how stressful his job might be, we all have stressful jobs..but going home and taking care of your kid after a stressful day is DOUBLE the work..so tell him to grow up and stop being selfish. You work way harder than him when he is away!!

Fianschneid · June 2012

Since he's already planned the August trip and committed to the July project, I'd probably tell him to follow through but let him know he'd better enjoy the boys trip, because it's the last you can handle if he's going to be working out of town so often.

DelBride2012 · June 2012

Yeah, I'd be mad. Is there any way he can still go on this trip and for you to get more support (e.g., have a relative come stay with you during this long stretch of work travel, bring in a college student on summer break as a short-term nanny)? Could your daughter spend a week at grandma's while you get caught up at work?

Then, it seems like he owes you one, big time. If I were you, I'd have some serious brewing resentment that needs to be headed off. What can he do to make you feel like he appreciates the fact you've had to pull his weight at home during this time of being absent? Can you ask him to make it up to you by staying home with your daughter a couple weekends while you get out of town and do whatever you want? Or would you like a mini 4 day weekend family vacation with him totally present?

semdkm · June 2012

FROM POST ABOVE: DITTO THIS:

"Let me just say that if my DH was gone for work most of the time, you better believe he would NOT be camping on his free time, or he would be dead, and I would have been the one that killed him."

mae0111 · June 2012

Thanks for the advice, and for letting me vent. I forgot to mention that we've got a vacation planned mid-July. I don't really feel like this is good family bonding time because a) we're going with his whole family, and b) he's already told me that he's going to have to work. We typically get one night out alone as a couple during this vacation, and I don't think that's going to happen because his brother and SIL want to come with us on our "date".

The trip will be fun, but it won't be a super-relaxing family bonding trip. He'll be traveling immediately before it, and immediately after it. And then he'll want to leave to go camping.

I'm such a ball of stress...

DelBride2012 · June 2012

mae0111:

Thanks for the advice, and for letting me vent. I forgot to mention that we've got a vacation planned mid-July. I don't really feel like this is good family bonding time because a) we're going with his whole family, and b) he's already told me that he's going to have to work. We typically get one night out alone as a couple during this vacation, and I don't think that's going to happen because his brother and SIL want to come with us on our "date".

The trip will be fun, but it won't be a super-relaxing family bonding trip. He'll be traveling immediately before it, and immediately after it. And then he'll want to leave to go camping.

I'm such a ball of stress...

What have you straight-up told him about your work situation and stress level? What have you asked him to do about it? Could you make a list of things that would help you out and make you feel better generally? Do you think he'd be open to trying to meet some of your requests?

sadie+w · June 2012

I do not think you are being unreasonable. If my DH was going to be gone this much for work, there's no way he would even think about going on 3 personal trips without our family within such a short amount of time. I would think with him being gone so much for work, he would want to spend the small amount of time he does have with you and your DD.

ASmallWonder · June 2012

My first reaction is that I'd be ticked. But I'll give you advice from my rational "I'm not in the situation" side. Sit with him and remind him that when you're not at your paying job, you're at home caring for the house and kid - the non paying job that still requires focus and attention (likely even more than his or your paying jobs). I get he's working a lot but he's lost sight of the fact that your day isn't ending at 5 either. Ask him to consider your feelings from that perspective and then ask him to think hard about what's fair as far as time away from the family - for BOTH of you.

brewcitybride · June 2012

Nope, you are not being unreasonable, and I would have a very serious conversation. I would explain how this is affecting you (which in turn affects your baby, and your relationship with DH). I understand if he can't find a new job that is more family-friendly, but I would have a BIG issue with the guys' nights and the camping.

A family unit has to be in it together. When one person is feeling stressed, the other needs to step in. Alone time IS important, but not if it comes at the expense of your spouse's mental health. If he can't understand that, then you might have bigger issues:(

mae0111 · June 2012

DelBride2012:
mae0111:

Thanks for the advice, and for letting me vent. I forgot to mention that we've got a vacation planned mid-July. I don't really feel like this is good family bonding time because a) we're going with his whole family, and b) he's already told me that he's going to have to work. We typically get one night out alone as a couple during this vacation, and I don't think that's going to happen because his brother and SIL want to come with us on our "date".

The trip will be fun, but it won't be a super-relaxing family bonding trip. He'll be traveling immediately before it, and immediately after it. And then he'll want to leave to go camping.

I'm such a ball of stress...

What have you straight-up told him about your work situation and stress level? What have you asked him to do about it? Could you make a list of things that would help you out and make you feel better generally? Do you think he'd be open to trying to meet some of your requests?

Yes - he knows. The only thing that's going to help is if he's home. I need to be at work more. We're already taxing our childcare resources more than we'd planned. She's been very flexible with us, but we're really pushing her, and I don't want to push her more. Plus, DD knows that he's gone, which puts pressure on me to be with her when he's not (outside of normal work hours, I mean).

DH's job was not supposed to be like this. I know I'm not the only one with an H that travels, but this is not what we agreed to when he took this job. In fact, he turned down another offer because the travel would be exactly like this.

And now the resentment is building because he's downplaying his time away from home. I've shown him on the calendar how much he's been gone. It doesn't sink in. He thinks that if he comes home 2 hours early from a week long trip, he's a champ.

I'm sure some of my stress is self-induced. I feel like my time with DD is so limited (due to work), that I don't want to hire a sitter unless I'm doing it to spend time with DH. Maybe I need to change that.

sadie+w · June 2012

mexicolombiana:
Let me just say that if my DH was gone for work most of the time, you better believe he would NOT be camping on his free time, or he would be dead, and I would have been the one that killed him.

Ha ha, I saw this after I posted. Very well put!

terpsfan · June 2012

Does he "ask" to go on these overnight/camping trips beforehand? Or is he just telling you I am doing xyz at this time, no discussion, period. It's like he's treating his home and family like a hotel, breezing in and out when convenient and when he feels like it.

As far as the family vacation in july, just say NO to the "others" who want to hang on. Say NO to the BIL/SIL joining you on your date. Pick a date where you tell your ILs, it's going to be "our family only today" in a nice way... JUST SAY NO if it's bothering you that much.

vigurl · June 2012

sadie+w:

mexicolombiana:
Let me just say that if my DH was gone for work most of the time, you better believe he would NOT be camping on his free time, or he would be dead, and I would have been the one that killed him.

Ha ha, I saw this after I posted. Very well put!

All of this. DH worked 70+ hours per week. It was fine when it was just us but with the baby it got old quick. It bugged the crap out of me I could never stay late at work or go in early b/c I had to do p/u and drop off ever day.

I may sound like a B!tc# but I made DH get a new job. I sent his resume out EVERYWHERE! He works 50 hours a week max now and brings in more $. He just started before mothers day and now he thanks me.

aglenn · June 2012

You sound like me. My DH travels for weeks at a time overseas and we are on the opposite side of the country from both families....and are relatively new to the area so we don't have a strong network of friends...and it is all a bit much at times. My job is demanding, too, and juggling it all when he's not here is definitely wearing on me. I do not think you are unreasonable at all for feeling like he shouldn't go on the fun trip. I don't think my DH would even have the nerve to suggest such a thing because he knows I would kill him. He needs to make some sacrifices, too, in order for things to work.

I often feel like I need a support group for working moms with husbands who travel, so feel free to vent away! I know how hard it is.

ETA: I read this part of your update ("He thinks that if he comes home 2 hours early from a week long trip, he's a champ. ") and had to laugh. I swear we have had that exact same conversation at my house.

DelBride2012 · June 2012

Well now I'm downright mad at him on your behalf. I would ask him why your work needs to suffer so he can take recreational trips, and tell him that he's putting your employment in jeopardy by doing so. It's really not okay. Something needs to give on his end, because right now all the giving is on your end.

mae0111 · June 2012

terpsfan:

Does he "ask" to go on these overnight/camping trips beforehand? Or is he just telling you I am doing xyz at this time, no discussion, period. It's like he's treating his home and family like a hotel, breezing in and out when convenient and when he feels like it.

As far as the family vacation in july, just say NO to the "others" who want to hang on. Say NO to the BIL/SIL joining you on your date. Pick a date where you tell your ILs, it's going to be "our family only today" in a nice way... JUST SAY NO if it's bothering you that much.

He did ask before planning the trips. And when he planned them, 6 months ago, I said, "It's fine right now, but it your work gets crazy and you're traveling a ton, I don't want you to go." I don't know - maybe he didn't believe me??

The vacation in July is tough. We see my ILs about 4-5 times a year. I don't want to limit their time with DD. I really do love vacationing with the ILs every year, but I would really love a night out alone. I think I'm going to pick a day that won't work for BIL/SIL and say that's our date night.

terpsfan · June 2012

If he planned these trips 6 months ago then I'm with the other poster who said let him go on these and tell him these are the last trips he's taking alone for recreational purposes for a long time.

There is plenty of time during a week long vacation for your ILs to hang out with your DD. But because of your DHs recent work schedule you absolutely need to carve out some core family time as you don't have any more vacations/extended quality time scheduled for awhile (if at all right now).

mexicolombiana · June 2012

Yeah I don't have a husband who travels, and I imagine that would suck in and of itself. But it's these ridiculous camping trips that kill me. What is he like 12 years old? What adult man needs to go on camping trips with buddies? Who are these guys who can just go on all these camping trips?

I guess the underlying issue is what the heck is wrong with your DH that he doesn't WANT to see his kids and spend time with him every waking moment that he is at home? I guess this would bother me more than anything. I would be EXTREMELY hurt if my husband didn't want to see his kids and play with them and be part of their lives every moment he was at home (if he traveled for work).

He's not a frat guy or a kid who gets to go on camping trips anymore with buddies. That's just my very strong opinion. Sorry it sounds so harsh but seriously that wouldn't fly in my house. And I just want to point out that's it's not about you as a wife "nagging" him or telling him what to do. That's not how things should be in a household. Spouses shouldn't "ask" permission to do things, but just talk it over with the other person to make sure it's feasible for everyone involved. So anyway, long story short, I'm sorry but this must all be really hard on you, I can't even imagine!

laf10 · June 2012

No, you're not being unreasonable. I wouldn't want him going if he was going to be gone all the time in July.

Netty_3 · June 2012

My husband went away for a week and my parents helped take care of DS while he was gone, but even with that it was really difficult doing everything myself. When he got back he was so excited to be home though and did so much over the weekend (like letting mama sleep) to make up for it. I can't even imagine. Help him pull his head out of his butt...go away for a weekend with some girlfriends when he's home and have him do everything...better yet include a weekday or two for good measure. Obviously if his job requires travel you all realized it before DD came along...but the weekend outings with the guys is silly.

duchess0727 · June 2012

I don't know if you are being unreasonable - if he had these things planned before he knew he was traveling, then I wouldn't make him cancel. You are both entitled to your time away with friends. If he does it every weekend, that's one thing, but I know my husbands plans with friends are rare so he would be really upset to cancel.

Find yourself a mother's helper at least one or two nights a week so you can get on top of your housework, get the kids to bed on time and catch up on your work. Even though my husband is home most nights, we have 3 kids and I don't get to sit down until after 9 pm. If I need to, I ask my sitter to stay and help out so I can get a handle on things. It's worth the extra $ to feel sane. Also, sit down with hubby and plan some things that you can do as a family and put a weekend for you on the calendar while you are talking and make sure you get a break too.

shannm · June 2012

I hear you. I could probably deal with the traveling if he loved the job but I would be really sad if he didn't want to spend his only time off with me and the kids.

brewcitybride · June 2012

Sounds like you need to be a little more forceful with your vocalization of this. Um, when DD was 6 months old (we now have DD and DS) I literally had to have a total meltdown in DH's face, with crying and screaming so that he KNEW and SAW how I was feeling. He got the picture, FAST. Guys can just be really, really, dumb. Sounds like you might be giving him passive aggressive messages (Telling him he can go camping, but then being mad about it).

As far as taking a night off to yourself, I would never be bullied into, or just go along with, goingout with other people if I desperately needed a night out with my husband, alone. Get a voice, girl! Stand up for yourself! Start saying NO.

EastCoastBride · June 2012

brewcitybride:

Sounds like you need to be a little more forceful with your vocalization of this. Um, when DD was 6 months old (we now have DD and DS) I literally had to have a total meltdown in DH's face, with crying and screaming so that he KNEW and SAW how I was feeling. He got the picture, FAST. Guys can just be really, really, dumb. Sounds like you might be giving him passive aggressive messages (Telling him he can go camping, but then being mad about it).

This is what I was thinking. Lose it on him. Totally lose it. Make him understand.

For the fact that you did say "if work gets crazy, I don't want you going" when he booked this trip - he knew the conditions.

And I have to agree- it would really, REALLY bother me that after being away from us for so long, that it isn't HIS priority to be at home and spend time w/ his family.

mae0111 · June 2012

brewcitybride:

Sounds like you need to be a little more forceful with your vocalization of this. Um, when DD was 6 months old (we now have DD and DS) I literally had to have a total meltdown in DH's face, with crying and screaming so that he KNEW and SAW how I was feeling. He got the picture, FAST. Guys can just be really, really, dumb. Sounds like you might be giving him passive aggressive messages (Telling him he can go camping, but then being mad about it).

I've had the meltdowns before. This isn't the first time this has happened. There was yelling, screaming, and crying. He sort of got the picture when I told him I thought he was a selfish a$$hole for going camping and then immediately on a golf trip (technically work, but he could have easily and without consequence passed it up) when I a) asked him not to and b) had the flu and was left to care for our then 9 mo old daughter alone. We were very close to splitting. And things got better for a long time.

I told him I was fine with the trip 6 months ago, with the caveat that if work travel picked up, then I didn't want him to go. Work travel picked up. I told him last night that I didn't want him to go as a result. That wasn't passive aggressive. It was direct. He disagrees with me, which got me thinking that I might be out of line.

EastCoastBride · June 2012

Wow - for the fact that you've almost split up before over this... his "not getting it" isn't as surprising to me, but yet at the same time, the fact that things got that bad and here he is once again feeling he should be able to take all these trips while also being gone for work.... he SHOULD be getting it.

MirandaHobbes · June 2012

This is such a crappy situation for you- I'm so sorry. No way in hell my H would pull that shiz on me. Now don't get me wrong- I'm sure my H would LOVE to spend 5 days away with his buddies living it up- but he knows that it's intuitively wrong. H has gone away on "guys trips" 3-4 times in the past 5 years, and never longer than a long weekend. Assuming you want to make things work with your H, you've got to make him realize that YES, he deserves a "break" after all his hard work and traveling (I'm the one who works very long hours away from home in our family, so I know how grueling it can be.). But his mind is warped to think that a "break" entails being away from his wife and child. He needs to appreciate you and his child more, and want to spend time with you.

Another way to get his attention is to just level with him and be fair- say, okay- cool. He can go on the guy's trip in August. And then the next weekend you're going away for the week. Make him be 100% responsible for domestic duties for a week and see how he likes it. He can't argue with that!!!

DelBride2012 · June 2012

When work travel obviously has been extensive, and when his defense is only that it hasn't, well, that's not merely "not getting it." That's just being selfish at your expense. I would hate to be in your shoes. Either you have to suffer through an untenable situation or be "the bad guy" because he refuses to look at the situation objectively and then decide to act in your family's best interest on his own. But if he insists on being willfully blind to his own unfair behavior; when you've pulled out the calendar and shown him exactly why the recreational trips are no longer viable... what's left to do or say?

mae0111 · June 2012

DelBride2012:
When work travel obviously has been extensive, and when his defense is only that it hasn't, well, that's not merely "not getting it." That's just being selfish at your expense. I would hate to be in your shoes. Either you have to suffer through an untenable situation or be "the bad guy" because he refuses to look at the situation objectively and then decide to act in your family's best interest on his own. But if he insists on being willfully blind to his own unfair behavior; when you've pulled out the calendar and shown him exactly why the recreational trips are no longer viable... what's left to do or say?

That's kind of where I am, I think. He didn't understand how extensive the travel had been until I pulled out the calendar. He understands now, but he doesn't "get" how hard it is. I don't think he's being deliberately selfish. He's likely just disappointed because he loves this camping trip. But I'm sick of doing everything alone.

And that's what I mean when I say he doesn't get it. He's never been in the situation. He doesn't get it. He equates me being left alone for weeks with me leaving DD home while I run to the grocery store. Doesn't. Get. It.

And I don't WANT to go away for the weekend. I spend enough time away from my DH and DD. I don't want to add to it. And honestly, I don't need a weekend away to recharge. I need a dinner or a walk with a girlfriend, but not a weekend. He needs more. I try to allow for that. But it's too much.

DelBride2012 · June 2012

But could taking a long weekend (including 2-3 workdays) and leaving him in charge help him "get it"? Even if you don't need it. Obviously explaining it more, and getting upset more, doesn't drive the point home for him. Sometimes we all really need to walk in someone else's shoes to understand what we think we already get.

EastCoastBride · June 2012

DelBride2012:
Sometimes we all really need to walk in someone else's shoes to understand what we think we already get.

This. I know you don't WANT to be away from your DD, but this could be a marriage saving move. You've almost split up over this issue before. If you were to split for good - here are 2 big realities:

1- when you have DD, you will truly 100% be doing everything alone.

but,

2- he'd probably get some level of custody/visitation. You don't want to be apart from your DD for a weekend - but if you split up, you'd actually probably be apart from her a lot more!

I have a friend who left her DH and he fought for 50% custody. She doesn't have her kids w/ her 50% of the time. She hates it.

Take a long weekend NOW. MAKE your DH realize what a couple days alone is like. It still won't be quite the same as weeks, but it will be more than a few hours and it might be enough to get him to realize what your life is like.

aglenn · June 2012

mae0111:

DelBride2012:
When work travel obviously has been extensive, and when his defense is only that it hasn't, well, that's not merely "not getting it." That's just being selfish at your expense. I would hate to be in your shoes. Either you have to suffer through an untenable situation or be "the bad guy" because he refuses to look at the situation objectively and then decide to act in your family's best interest on his own. But if he insists on being willfully blind to his own unfair behavior; when you've pulled out the calendar and shown him exactly why the recreational trips are no longer viable... what's left to do or say?

That's kind of where I am, I think. He didn't understand how extensive the travel had been until I pulled out the calendar. He understands now, but he doesn't "get" how hard it is. I don't think he's being deliberately selfish. He's likely just disappointed because he loves this camping trip. But I'm sick of doing everything alone.

And that's what I mean when I say he doesn't get it. He's never been in the situation. He doesn't get it. He equates me being left alone for weeks with me leaving DD home while I run to the grocery store. Doesn't. Get. It.

And I don't WANT to go away for the weekend. I spend enough time away from my DH and DD. I don't want to add to it. And honestly, I don't need a weekend away to recharge. I need a dinner or a walk with a girlfriend, but not a weekend. He needs more. I try to allow for that. But it's too much.

So, based on this, and being in a similar situation myself, I think you do two things:

1. Be specific with him about what you need to do for yourself, and schedule it. Don't wait for him to suggest that it's a good time for you to go out with a friend. Declare Wednesday nights for yourself (or whatever works) and do something that will help you recharge. I just signed up for a Sunday morning yoga class and am loving it. It is just that little break and space to breathe that makes a huge difference. Is it the same as being gone for weeks at a time like DH is? No. Does it mean he now really "gets it?" No. But it helps me, just a little bit, and makes it easier to pull through.

2. Be specific with him about what you need for HIM to do, too. What is too much travel? When is work crazy? What would be a tolerable level of work-related and non-work-related travel? He clearly does not have a sense that it is too much, and you do, so you are not on the same page. I am working on this with my DH and we aren't there yet, but it's an ongoing conversation.

Hugs to you; I feel your pain. It is not easy stuff.

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