- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
April 2012 Moms
mrs+harlow
member
Since I missed it...and my user name keeps coming up
mrs+harlow
member
I'll cross post so we can make sure clarification is noted.
Wow, yet another post...here's another *curtsy*. I'll try not to let it go to my head too much.
For the record, I didn't exactly say you should go to jail for struggling. But good going twisting words. You should go to jail for fraudulently accepting government benefits. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough....anyway moving on...
It is sad that being self-responsible in your actions and finances is such a horrible concept to many.
I also wasn't aware that my political views were shaped by one thread. So let's delve...shall we? I don't think charity should come from the government. In my experience, non-profits and religious organizations are far more efficient at this. Volunteerism is better than taxation and hand outs. I'm from the school of -if you are really in need go to a church and ask for help ...seek out a non-profit that can help you sort things out. I have given people the shirt off my back....literally....post Katrina...assisting with the Red Cross in New Orleans....AKA Hell on Earth. If my neighbor or friend came to me and needed $60 a month for food for their kids...I would give it to them or help them acquire is via something other than the government. As I see it, our societal model has been broken down - how many of you know if your neighbor IS struggling and needs your help? We usually don't...because there's a black sheet over the whole situation perpetrated by government benefits. Last summer, one neighbor put his house up for sale after just buying it the previous year. When I got around to asking him why in the street one day, he and his wife explained that his landscaping business had fallen on tough times. So I partnered with some of my other neighbors and got the word out about his services. We ended up drumming up enough business that he took his house off the market and his wife was no longer sad that they had to move school districts. The government doesn't = love...people do. So get off the government and get to know your neighbor and help each other without the middle man BS ( and debt) and maybe we can have a bit more Utopia. There it is...in a severe nutshell.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Since I missed it...and my user name keeps coming up
Hey, are you aware that you're totally coming off like an arrogant pr*ck again here?
You're basically saying, "Gosh, I'm so awesome, the real problem is that the government keeps everyone from being like me. If only everyone was like me, there would be no poor people!" Also, it seems a little sh*tty to me to say, "Go to your church," because 1) some people's churches are p*ss poor and have little money to help parishioners, as much as they would like to do it, and 2) some of us don't go to church. I don't know the stats on broke atheists, but in a country that guarantees freedom of religion, they shouldn't have to join a church to help get formula if their lives turn to sh*t without notice one day.
I didn't see the other posts you're talking about that reference you, but I can guess that if you said anything remotely like this in any of them, the references were not flattering. Most of us don't like your attitude about this. You are fully aware of this. Either stop bringing it up, or suck it up and deal with the backlash.
I don't hold grudges. No worries here. Everyone has an opinion. Finances just suck for us right now, but things are already starting to look good.
On a side note, WIC also offers services that don't require the cost of money. My Ameda took a poop on me and until I can figure out and fix the issues they loaned me a pump to use for 2 weeks. I'm glad there are programs out there that are willing to help women and support BF. I had the pump parts to a Medela the hospital gave me while I pumped in the hospital so I didn't even need the kit they offer. They also give us vouchers for the farmer's markets which in turn help local farmers. I'm just saying that WIC is a more positive government program than others that are out there.
I'm not sure if you're aware of the state of the economy, but I doubt the average joe trying to keep his head above water has an extra $60 per month to throw a neighbor. I get it "smile on your brother, everybody get together and love one another" and it's a nice idea, but it ain't realistically happening.
Thank God that there are programs to help (those who qualify for them) to fill in the gaps. I know from news reports that our local food bank is in dire need so what then? Without government assistance, in a community where everyone is facing economic hardship and uncertainty, do you just let children starve because their neighbor didn't have more than sympathy?
I know it looks different from where you are, but you're coming off like a serious jerk on a very high horse.
Actually, you missed the point on multiple levels...that being charitable as a community and goes a heck of a lot further than the government dishing it out. And also to have a broader intellectual discussion other than calling someone a b*tch.
Do you honestly think the white haired men and women in ugly suits we elect into office give two flips about you, me or starving kids? No. And I don't care which side of the aisle they sit on...they don't care. All they care about is keeping themselves in office and their parties in " power" so they can keep collecting those hefty elected official paychecks. The more they make you believe they care...the more you keep voting them in. Trust me, they don't worry their little heads about us too much at night....they just worry about what to tell you to buy you out the next go round.
And for the record, I said churches AND NON-PROFITS. You clearly latched on to the " churches" and ignored the rest. I also cited the Red Cross, which I happen to volunteer with and have respect for, for the most part. It's an impartial organization. FYI, most churches don't require you to be a member if you need their assistance.
You cite that some churches are poor. Yes, this is true. I never said there would never be any poor people, either. Ever wonder if we had less of a tax burden, if people might tithe more to their churches who in turn aid the community directly? With less of a tax burden, would you give more to charitable organizations? Would you be able to help a neighbor, the guy on the side of the road with a " help" sign or a friend? My husband and I would.
I wasn't saying " Oh, be just like me, I am awesome". LOL. I was giving examples of helping people and what great things we can achieve as communities , if we want to....without government involvement.
Seriously, why do you keep dragging this subject up. First of all, just because someone has done well at some point in their life and comes upon a difficult time it does not mean they are committing fraud by seeking public assistance if they meet the qualifications. There are income guidelines and you either qualify or you don't.
Secondly, your entire theory about your kumbaya utopian society fails to realize that while you neighbor lived in a neighborhood with a decent to upper socioeconomic class, the majority of people out there who need the help do not live in such areas and therefore, their neighbors are in the same boat. You are only considering the network of people you know who might have the means to help their neighbor. However, people in lower socioeconomic classes do not have these networks of people who can afford to support them in that way. If the people from those lower classes come asking for assistance from the middle and upper classes who have the means to help them then they are considered beggars.
That is where the govt comes in. Non profits are great and all but they could never reach and assist everyone who would need their help. The govt protects these children who otherwise may end up in even worse situations. They have the means to assist many more people than a church or non profit ever could. I could go on however I have other things to do besides argue with you over your self righteous, out of touch opinions.
Do you think my neighbors will hook me up with a new ipad? LMK.
Of course. But you have to promise not to go door to door asking for money if we need some when times get rough. Also, that's how I like it: rough
Dirty lurker here, but you have NO reason to defend yourself. Obviously you should have known to not ask the government--even though that's what the program is for--and instead just rely on the kindness of other people
First of all, you are assuming. If you think my illegal immigrant landscaper neighbor , with 3 kids and another on the way, belongs in the " upper socioeconomic class" and I live in a gated community ...then yay.
Also, " neighbor" is used metaphorically. Helping your " neighbor" does not have to be literal. If you live in a gated community, then maybe you should find it within yourself to help your " neighbor" 5,10, or 500 miles away. Helping doesn't have to require the government. My dad grew up very poor in a farming family. Growing up, he always told me stories of how if one of the other farming families came up with a short crop or their kids were hungry/without clothing, that they all got together and sorted it out themselves. Then the government farm subsidies came along...
Also, help doesn't always have to require dishing out finances directly from your pocket and putting it into someone else's.
And hmm...move to NYC and then talk to me about " qualifying" for government benefits ....where wearing furs and dripping in diamonds allows you to "qualify". Apparently, here you can have a food stamps card and drive a Mercedes because you have cash income.
But yea. It's " out of touch" and "self-righteous" to search for and ponder other ways to help people when we clearly have a situation in this country ---- of an enormous amount of government debt that even our grand kids won't be finished paying off. When the sh*t hits the fan there, I wonder who will be helping who.
Assistance programs aren't the reason this country is in debt. Get informed.
@ Harlow, are you against the practice of using government assistance when it isn't completely necessary or are you against it period? No snark intended, I'm just curious.
I guess I stand on the line with this. I'm against the abuse. A few months back, I made a post about a friend who picked up and headed to the WIC office the second she found out she was pregnant...although her husband had just received a 20K bonus. That I have an issue with. If you qualify...but don't actually need it, I don't think that you should go apply for it "just because you can." I think it should be reserved for those who urgently need the assistance for a legit reason.
1. What does your neighbor being an illegal immigrant have anything to do with this?
2. It sounds like you are assuming I do nothing to help others. You are very sorely mistaken.
3. I never said the only way to help was by handing out money.
4. I would love to see your proof of all these people in fur driving around these Mercedes with their food stamp card hanging out of their back diamond encrusted pocket. The day you post a picture of this is one I look forward too. Until then here are the actual eligibility requirements in the state of New York: https://otda.ny.gov/programs/snap/#eligibility
5. Never did I say it was a bad thing for people to think of other ways to help others. However, I do think it is pretty ignorant of you to belittle people for using the resources that are currently available to them to help them to survive. Most people in those situations requiring some type of aid are not going to wake up tomorrow morning with someone knocking on their door ready to personally give them the aid they require.
6. Yes our economy sucks however, going around chastising those less fortunate than yourself for doing what they have to do to get by, once again is a s**tty thing for you to do. Telling them they should be put in jail because they once enjoyed financial stability but have fallen on difficult times and are doing what they need to to get back on their feet is ridiculous.
I did not call you self righteous and out of touch because you ponder other ways to help people. I called you those things because you come along acting all high and mighty and show not one ounce of empathy or understanding for those less fortunate than yourself. Apparently you fail to realize the sheer volume of ladies on here who have told you that you sound completely arrogant and bishy. I am not even close to being the only one who thinks these things.
Okay, I understand that this is a heated discussion, but I really don't see anything wrong with the bold text. She's simply saying that in NYC the maximum income that benefits cap off at are so high that someone who could afford to wear nice things or afford a luxury vehicle is still able to qualify.
That said, after reading the requirements posted by PP, I doubt that there's an epidemic of Mercedes driving welfare recipients.
Aaaaaaand that just wiped my super cereal political discussion face off. Nice.
The point is that everyone goes for the "driving a fancy car with their iPhone and designer clothes while whipping out the food stamps" excuse. It is a total stereotype. No one ever considers that maybe said "luxuries" were gifts or there before hard times. It is an ignorant assumption.
Apparently you did not take the time to look at this so here:
That is from the state of NY. I would love to know how people with those kind of incomes are affording luxury vehicles and diamonds to wear everywhere.
Uh. Hi. You forgot to add my ETA. You didn't look close enough.
I guess I don't really know much about this debate. I had no idea that was a common stereotype.
ETA: I can vouch for the whole "your things don't necessarily reflect your income" myself. I have a luxury car, but I traded my other car (which I got for xmas one year) in to get it, and that took care of a HUGE chunk. I have a 2ct wedding ring...but it is an heirloom. I forgot to look at it from that side...but it does explain a lot. We never would have had those things otherwise.
Sorry, I think I was posting while you edited.
Lol
Everyone get over it. She's just trying to explain herself but clearly it was a bad idea. I agree that Harlow comes off arrogant. I can understand what she is saying but not how she says it.
Dup
U don't no my lyfe!!!!
*throws food stamps in the air, jumps in Escalade and speeds off*
I'm makin it rain b!tch
Hold on, back the hell up.
Your illegal immigrant neighbour was able to buy a home? And you support him being able to do so and benefiting from working in your country? I call BS.
I would much rather see my tax dollars go to support the less fortunate than to big business via bailouts (especially when it comes to those who have served their country).
I do agree that less taxation, among other things, could benefit charitable cause. We live in an unbearably entitled society. Having said that, I think money collected by the government to be distributed to those in need is sharing the wealth and helping your neighbour. You just don't get to dictate who receives it, and that's the point.
Go to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect food stamps hor.
Oh, its all good. Sorry for the snark then.
Btw, that's a Channing Tatum bootycheek. YWIA
So instead of cheating the system, people can start cheating their neighbors? Anyone can cry poor mouth if they know people will give them money. I work in a church that runs a weekly program to help the less fortunate pay utility bills and give them a fair amount of donated groceries. I see people come through the program who need more than we can give and people come through that get mad when they make too much money to qualify for aid. All this assistance comes from the pockets of parishioners.
I had a gun pulled on me by one of these people who shut me in my office until I would pay his $300 electric bill out of my pocket because I "clearly had the money"... While 25ish weeks pregnant.
But keep on singin' kumbaya, sister. By all means.
Omg, I remember you posting about that. I am so sorry...that had to have scared the living sh*t out of you. That's terrifying.
Yep, add it to the laundry list of things that I never thought would happen to me while working in a church, lol.
Just to be clear, though: I'm not at all saying that we shouldn't help our neighbors or give to them when they're in need, but I AM saying that these 'no strings attached' handouts will be abused more than a government program because no one in the government gives a shiiit about your sob story. The churches/non-profits who operate on donations do. People donate to these sorts of programs because their money will go to help people in need, but you would be foolish to think that these handouts are also not horribly abused. I am all got helping a neighbor- there's a mother at our church who has 6 kids and her husband just threw her out because he's a douche. We all pulled together and found her a place to stay. Ask Tk2 about a friend of a friend who went into a coma after her c-section and the generosity their family received from their community.
Obviously, it would be best for communities to pull together to support one another, but there are plenty of selfish assholes out there who would abuse that more because people's emotions are involved. It all goes back to a tax debate if you ask me and I think government aid programs are necessary, but I'll get off of my soap box and back out of this one now.
dude, why are you still talking about this? I mean, honestly- YAWN. You got shredded on that other thread, and still went about your business posting on other topics as though nothing had happened, so why rehash this again? Let it go.
Tryin' hard to upset December's clear ownership of Captain Crazytown.
APRIL - represent!
My Blog