(Updated) oversensitive? wdyt?

carlinlp · January 2012

Our 14 year old came home and asked us to help him with his vocabulary words for an AP class at school. My DH jumped at the chance but DS said they'd have to do it in the other room because we shouldn't say the words in front of the little kids. DH's jaw pretty much hit the floor when he saw them. I am between shocked and livid. I'll freely admit that I am super oversensitive to anything relating to suicide as my first husband killed himself. DH wants to send a note to the teacher and the principal and we are thinking we won't have DS study these words, or take the test. Honestly, it really bothers me. I think with violence in the schools these days this is beyond inappropriate for 13-14 year old kids to study these words and use them for an entire week. I do wonder if we're being hypersensitive though because of our history with first DH.

What do you think? Would you be ok with your teen studying these words, using them in sentences, etc.? I feel like I need to check myself here before we send a letter to the school.

Vocab words:

cide "to kill"
1. fratricide - act of killing one?s brother
2. sororicide ? the act of killing one?s sister
3. genocide - deliberate extermination of a racial or cultural group
4. homicide - killing of one human by another
5. matricide - act of killing one's mother
6. patricide - act of killing one?s father
7. insecticide/8. herbicide/9. germicide - substance that kills insects/plants/germs
10. regicide - act of killing a king
11. tyrannicide - act of killing a tyrant
12. suicide ? the act of killing oneself

DH emailed his teacher and she called him this morning. She said that we were not the only parents concerned about the list and it was decided that those kids whose parents contacted her would be given a new list for this week. Not sure what good that does since it is Friday and all, but she was super nice and understanding. DH asked if they were doing a lesson on shakespeare this week or something else that would coincide with -cide root words and she said no. He did (nicely) ask why the focus was on this set of root words for an entire week and she didn't really have an answer other than to say we were not the only ones who felt that way and quite a few other kids were getting alternate lists. She did mention they will be reading first hand accounts of the holocaust soon and wanted to give us a heads up. DH told her we are fine with that, it's history and valuable to his education, we would take part in that reading assignment with him, etc. We are not interested in sheltering him. He said it was a very good conversation, she was very understanding and it went well. Part of me wonders how many calls / emails she had to field this week : / Thanks for the advice and perspective ladies, it was very helpful!

MrsMillerTime · January 2012

Uh....seriously? These are words we're teaching to 13-14 year olds?

I'm all for AP classes and learning words in preparation for standardized tests - and it has been quite a while since I took mine - but I don't remember this "category" of words showing up on my tests.

Sure - teach them what "-cide" means so they know that it means "to kill" but don't give them words that talk about killing their brothers & sisters.

Not cool.

ACR · January 2012

I am not an overly sensitive person, and I find that selection of vocab words odd. I don't think it's out of place for those to be words that students learn in high school, but it seems like something they would learn organically by reading literature. With ALL of the words that are available to study, these are not the best choice of ones to focus on.

carlinlp · January 2012

DH mentioned he felt it was ok for the words to come up in teaching, reading, etc., but focusing on them all week as a cohesive unit is too much. Of course my son knows what suicide it, it has touched his life in a huge way. Why does he need to study a word about killing a sibling or parent for an entire week? I personally don't feel he needs to learn these words at all. Ugh.

agran · January 2012

I think probably a bit much for a 14 year old-- but they are sadly words that are part of the fabric of our society. I don't see a problem learning them like pp said in a more organic way but focusing seems like a lot. I mean do you write sentences with these words? That would be overkill.

But I can see the need to learn words that have latin bases and then can have many different meanings but why use -cide??

flymansWife · January 2012

MrsMillerTime:
Uh....seriously? These are words we're teaching to 13-14 year olds?
I'm all for AP classes and learning words in preparation for standardized tests - and it has been quite a while since I took mine - but I don't remember this "category" of words showing up on my tests.
Sure - teach them what "-cide" means so they know that it means "to kill" but don't give them words that talk about killing their brothers & sisters.
Not cool.

seriously. really really odd

ali-1411 · January 2012

Are they studying Shakespear? Aren't those terms pretty much the theme of most of his work?

MrsAJL · January 2012

What else are they studying? This is part of an AP English class, yes? Is it possible they're also studying Shakespeare? I remember reading Hamlet in 9th grade AP English and these types of subjects are talked about within the context of the play (suicide, patricide especially.) These themes are common among Shakespeare's tragedies as well as through Greek literature and other masters.

I vote oversensitive with the caveat that you need more information re: the general course of study in this class. Teachers rarely bring something up for study unless it's part of broader theme, especially an Advanced Placement class. I also believe in not censoring my child's reading material and rather studying along with him. This is hardly the most objectionable thing a 14 year old might be learning about.

MrsJayOK · January 2012

I agree with PPs. I teach middle school language arts (6th grade though). We study roots weekly in our PreAP classes as well; however, I do not think I would choose the root -cide to study as a weekly focus. There are so many roots in the English language to choose from. To me, the study of -cide would be more appropriate in high school. It does come up in class when we read, and we have discussed it, but I do not think I would dedicate a week to it.

carlinlp · January 2012

I did think of Shakespeare and asked if reading it now. They are not. The way the AP class works in MS is that they are given a list of books to read during the year and he chooses when to read which book (this eases the load of demand on the library and costs to parents who would then have to buy all the books - it is a large number of books, etc.) Because of this, the vocabulary words never ever coincide with the books he's reading. Shakespeare isn't on their reading list this year. I think they save that for HS.

rssnlvr · January 2012

I vote a smidge oversensitive because of your history. The root and many of the words themselves are relevant in both an English and a Social Studies class. Not only are they learning the root -cide, but they're also learning "frat" for brother, etc. When I was teaching 8th grade, I would never have shied away from words like this, and it's probably a bit of the shock value that actually gets the majority of the kids to study the words in the first place.

Take my opinion with a grain of salt, though; I only taught books that were on the banned-book list.

L L CG · January 2012

Maybe a little oversensitive. However, I don't see a problem with you writing a note to the teacher given your son's history. He's a little young to have to deal with an entire week of those words.

carlinlp · January 2012

Thanks for the perspectives ladies. Yeah, I'm wondering if just talking to him about it and having him know we think the words are inappropriate is enough, or if we should go as far to send an email to the teacher. Hmmm....

libbyann · January 2012

I think it's odd...but I wouldn't write the principal yet. Go to the teacher (in person if you can) and ask about the words - why are they studying these words right now? Are these words in the ARC for Pre-AP English (we had specific vocab our 5th graders had to learn each 6-wk period in RRISD)? Where did she get their yearly vocabulary list from? I think you should try to be as nice as you possibly can be about it so she doesn't feel like she's being attacked and can have an open communication with you. I think your concerns are valid, but I also don't think that it's completely out there for a 14-year-old to know those words...like PPs have mentioned, suicide/patricide come up a lot in Shakespeare, which he will be reading in HS, and Pre-AP is all about preparing them for HS/college.

Now, if the teacher and you can't come to an agreement or if you feel like something still needs to be said, then yes, I would take it to the principal in a letter or something. But I think it's best not to go over the teacher's head right at the start.

misjenn · January 2012

carlinlp:
Thanks for the perspectives ladies. Yeah, I'm wondering if just talking to him about it and having him know we think the words are inappropriate is enough, or if we should go as far to send an email to the teacher. Hmmm....

I would be a bit bothered, but think that since it is a sensitive subject to your family it may be even more so for you. My nephew is 12 and the words and stuff he learns in his advanced classes for G&T are sometimes mind boggling. I would send a email discussing your concern letting them know a brief background and let them know this week DS won't be participating in the words due to the sensitivity of the subject.

carlinlp · January 2012

libbyann:
I think it's odd...but I wouldn't write the principal yet. Go to the teacher (in person if you can) and ask about the words - why are they studying these words right now? Are these words in the ARC for Pre-AP English (we had specific vocab our 5th graders had to learn each 6-wk period in RRISD)? Where did she get their yearly vocabulary list from? I think you should try to be as nice as you possibly can be about it so she doesn't feel like she's being attacked and can have an open communication with you. I think your concerns are valid, but I also don't think that it's completely out there for a 14-year-old to know those words...like PPs have mentioned, suicide/patricide come up a lot in Shakespeare, which he will be reading in HS, and Pre-AP is all about preparing them for HS/college.
Now, if the teacher and you can't come to an agreement or if you feel like something still needs to be said, then yes, I would take it to the principal in a letter or something. But I think it's best not to go over the teacher's head right at the start.

Very good point. We are in an (unwanted) legal battle with DD's school (different school, same district) over food allergy issues and can't communicate with her teacher, principal only. So we are probably oversensitive in that regard too....geesh, we're oversensitive all over the place. I'm so disheartened with the public system at this point, I guess that could be part of it too. Blah. I'm glad I posted to check myself.

misjenn · January 2012

carlinlp:
libbyann:
I think it's odd...but I wouldn't write the principal yet. Go to the teacher (in person if you can) and ask about the words - why are they studying these words right now? Are these words in the ARC for Pre-AP English (we had specific vocab our 5th graders had to learn each 6-wk period in RRISD)? Where did she get their yearly vocabulary list from? I think you should try to be as nice as you possibly can be about it so she doesn't feel like she's being attacked and can have an open communication with you. I think your concerns are valid, but I also don't think that it's completely out there for a 14-year-old to know those words...like PPs have mentioned, suicide/patricide come up a lot in Shakespeare, which he will be reading in HS, and Pre-AP is all about preparing them for HS/college.
Now, if the teacher and you can't come to an agreement or if you feel like something still needs to be said, then yes, I would take it to the principal in a letter or something. But I think it's best not to go over the teacher's head right at the start.
Very good point. We are in an (unwanted) legal battle with DD's school (different school, same district) over food allergy issues and can't communicate with her teacher, principal only. So we are probably oversensitive in that regard too....geesh, we're oversensitive all over the place. I'm so disheartened with the public system at this point, I guess that could be part of it too. Blah. I'm glad I posted to check myself.

I know you have been contemplating homeschooling and it's been heavy on your heart. The woman I gave you the number to about the muscle testing also home schools and is very passionate about it. I even helped her do planning for her kids for many years. If you'd like her email/name/number again I can give it to you or if you have any questions I have for many years helped moms that want to home school find the curriculum(s) and plans that work for their family. I'd be happy to help.

libbyann · January 2012

carlinlp:
Very good point. We are in an (unwanted) legal battle with DD's school (different school, same district) over food allergy issues and can't communicate with her teacher, principal only. So we are probably oversensitive in that regard too....geesh, we're oversensitive all over the place. I'm so disheartened with the public system at this point, I guess that could be part of it too. Blah. I'm glad I posted to check myself.

I totally get that - I've just been on the other side of it and it's nice to be able to work things out without involving a principal if you can!

Is Diary of Anne Frank on his reading list? I remember reading that in middle school...I can totally see the genocide topic in that spurring this entire list.

AustinBride06 · January 2012

L L CG:
Maybe a little oversensitive. However, I don't see a problem with you writing a note to the teacher given your son's history. He's a little young to have to deal with an entire week of those words.

The first thing I thought of when I saw those words was literature...Shakespeare, Homer, mythology, etc. But I agree with the above...given his personal history I think it's fair to make the teacher aware if it shows signs of bothering him.

fjaril · January 2012

I think you are taking it personally based on your experience. I understand wanting to contact to the teacher about it, but is that what your son wants?

He's in an AP class and these seem appropriate to what I did in middle school (way back when).

I also don't know that you should realistically expect public education to be tailored to your son b/c of his history. He's going to confront these words and read much more potentially upsetting literature through his scholastic career. It might be in high school, it might be in college, but you can't control it.

The only way to control for these things would be to home school.

I hope I don't come off rude or condescending, it's not my intention to be either of those.

carlinlp · January 2012

fjaril:
I think you are taking it personally based on your experience. I understand wanting to contact to the teacher about it, but is that what your son wants?
He's in an AP class and these seem appropriate to what I did in middle school (way back when).
I also don't know that you should realistically expect public education to be tailored to your son b/c of his history. He's going to confront these words and read much more potentially upsetting literature through his scholastic career. It might be in high school, it might be in college, but you can't control it.
The only way to control for these things would be to home school.
I hope I don't come off rude or condescending, it's not my intention to be either of those.

Not at all! We have open discussions about suicide at home (for obvious reasons), talking about the killing of siblings and parents, not so much. DS said he was uncomfortable with the list. Of course, he (and we) understand he can't be sheltered from all things suicide, we'd never attempt that at all. I don't think this age group is appropriate though at 12-14. Maybe that's just me though....

AustinAggie01 · January 2012

I think it's appropriate to study the roots of words and I remember doing a lot of that. I also agree that the point of AP classes is to prepare kids for HS/College. BUT, I don't remember really dwelling, especially for a week, on a whole list of words with all the same root. Knowing the meaning of "cide" would at least give you an educated guess about the meaning during a standardized test. Knowing the other parts of words (ex. "frat") would give you an even better idea.

I would let the teacher know about his sensitivity and reasoning behind it, but I would also like to hear her reasons for including this (to this degree) in the lessons.

FWIW, I think I probably would have had the same initial reaction and would have posted the same questions!

Nessia · January 2012

fjaril:
I think you are taking it personally based on your experience. I understand wanting to contact to the teacher about it, but is that what your son wants?
He's in an AP class and these seem appropriate to what I did in middle school (way back when).
I also don't know that you should realistically expect public education to be tailored to your son b/c of his history. He's going to confront these words and read much more potentially upsetting literature through his scholastic career. It might be in high school, it might be in college, but you can't control it.
The only way to control for these things would be to home school.
I hope I don't come off rude or condescending, it's not my intention to be either of those.

Initially I was thinking those words weren't appropriate and while I still think they may be better suited for when he is in HS I agree with fjaril too. It could be a good lesson in things you might not agree with but as a teenager who is becoming an adult he needs to learn.

Chandley · January 2012

MrsAJL:
What else are they studying? This is part of an AP English class, yes? Is it possible they're also studying Shakespeare? I remember reading Hamlet in 9th grade AP English and these types of subjects are talked about within the context of the play (suicide, patricide especially.) These themes are common among Shakespeare's tragedies as well as through Greek literature and other masters.
I vote oversensitive with the caveat that you need more information re: the general course of study in this class. Teachers rarely bring something up for study unless it's part of broader theme, especially an Advanced Placement class. I also believe in not censoring my child's reading material and rather studying along with him. This is hardly the most objectionable thing a 14 year old might be learning about.

i have to agree with this. granted, my mom was a teacher so i understand how teams and levels sometimes coordinate classes like this.

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