Israel, Palestine, and genocide

ashnoelle · December 2011

I also just want to throw out that some scholars consider what Israel is doing to Palestinians to be genocide.

I had a whole course on genocide on there was a section about how the concept of genocide began with the Holocaust, and yet what is happening to Palestinians can be considered genocide... So, there is a bit of irony involved there. There's a lot more depth to it, but perhaps a little too much for a single bump post.

Please discuss.

Momtobug31 · December 2011

Yes, ironic but Israel will argue that what they're doing is defending themselves against terrorism. There's always an argument to defend institutional oppression.

Interesting that you learned that the concept of genocide began w/ the Holocaust. Maybe the "concept" but certainly not the practice. Did they discuss the Armenian Genocide in your class?

ashnoelle · December 2011

Momtobug31:
Yes, ironic but Israel will argue that what they're doing is defending themselves against terrorism. There's always an argument to defend institutional oppression.

Interesting that you learned that the concept of genocide began w/ the Holocaust. Maybe the "concept" but certainly not the practice. Did they discuss the Armenian Genocide in your class?

of course. I meant the definition. The definition was created with the Holocaust in mind.

eta for clarification.

shakes · December 2011

The concept of genocide absolutely did not start with the Holocaust. I find that statement in and of itself offensive and if I were you I would look a little deeper into it before referencing such a poor source.

Also, one could argue either side effectively. This war has been breed into the culture after thousands of years of fighting. Unless one is a member of either group and/or has lived in the area, our opinions are based on what we have read and heard and therefore carry no weight.

ashnoelle · December 2011

Then please tell me the history behind the term genocide. I did not mean the fact that it existed, but the term with a specific definition as to be used by international human rights organizations and such.

What "poor" source do you think I am using? A text book on genocide? Then you are right.

Yes, both sides can be argued. I was trying to engage that. If you know the definition of genocide you can argue that the issue with Palestine may not meet the requirements...or it may.

And I find it absolutely silly to say that an informed opinion carries no weight because we do not live there.

Yules · December 2011

I refuse continue this argument. It's clear which state we side with and continuing this debate would be like fighting on two sides of the abortion issue.

Here's a My UO for tonight. I never understood why new threads are created for existing ones that pertain to the same issue. Here's my guess, when someone doesn't have enough cred to continue an argument of their own they need to recruit other posters to keep it going for them.

ashnoelle · December 2011

Yules:
I refuse continue this argument. It's clear which state we side with and continuing this debate would be like fighting on two sides of the abortion issue.
Here's a My UO for tonight. I never understood why new threads are created for existing ones that pertain to the same issue. Here's my guess, when someone doesn't have enough cred to continue an argument of their own they need to recruit other posters to keep it going for them.

lol. Or it could be because the original thread was a different conversation. There is overlap here, but I wanted to specifically address genocide not Statehood. There would have been too many convos in one thread, imo.

ashnoelle · December 2011

and i'm out. just in case this post does attract some comments.

Momtobug31 · December 2011

I obviously missed something. Link please.

Smootchy · December 2011

ashnoelle:

Then please tell me the history behind the term genocide. I did not mean the fact that it existed, but the term with a specific definition as to be used by international human rights organizations and such.

What "poor" source do you think I am using? A text book on genocide? Then you are right.

Yes, both sides can be argued. I was trying to engage that. If you know the definition of genocide you can argue that the issue with Palestine may not meet the requirements...or it may.

And I find it absolutely silly to say that an informed opinion carries no weight because we do not live there.

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007043

Smootchy · December 2011

shakes:

The concept of genocide absolutely did not start with the Holocaust. I find that statement in and of itself offensive and if I were you I would look a little deeper into it before referencing such a poor source.

Also, one could argue either side effectively. This war has been breed into the culture after thousands of years of fighting. Unless one is a member of either group and/or has lived in the area, our opinions are based on what we have read and heard and therefore carry no weight.

when and were did it? I do not know this answer and everywhere I've seen on line shows it did.

granted I don't believe everything I read on the internet... But when it's THE ONLY answer I find, I wonder.

ETA: my bad. I thought the OP had had the TERM genocide... Not the concept, which isn't quite the same thing...

bstrangely · December 2011

shakes:
The concept of genocide absolutely did not start with the Holocaust. I find that statement in and of itself offensive and if I were you I would look a little deeper into it before referencing such a poor source.

Also, one could argue either side effectively. This war has been breed into the culture after thousands of years of fighting. Unless one is a member of either group and/or has lived in the area, our opinions are based on what we have read and heard and therefore carry no weight.

um, israel did not exist until after ww2. whatever a person might imagine about the ancestral home of the people who now live in israel, the fact is, an army marched in to help them take someone else's ***. that is indefensible.

i mean seriously, if france invaded canada and said you needed to give your house to a mohawk, would you throw up your hands and say, "sure! i am so sorry for those hundreds of years of stealing your stuff!" for reals?

and i think it behooves us (particularly americans) to think about these issues, because we are financing that war. israel is not fighting it all by her lonesome. most nations who belong to the un are complicit somehow in that horror.

Heather R · December 2011

Shakes, you need to stop flipping your shits all the time. Apologize to ash, for heaven's sake. She didn't mean the first genocide was the Holocaust, only the modern term itself originated there.

Kitiara5512 · December 2011

Yules:

I refuse continue this argument. It's clear which state we side with and continuing this debate would be like fighting on two sides of the abortion issue.

Here's a My UO for tonight. I never understood why new threads are created for existing ones that pertain to the same issue. Here's my guess, when someone doesn't have enough cred to continue an argument of their own they need to recruit other posters to keep it going for them.

I have never known Ashnoelle to not be able to stick up for herself or come up with her own references. I have known her, and others, to create a new post dedicated to a specific topic because many commenters are actually interestd in it. Those who are not do not have to participate. That would be my guess.

My other guess would be that your opinion on the matter of the new post comes from having been part of the minority in the other discussion and not wanting to go through that again. I would sympathize but it would be an "invented" sympathy.

PolishWonder · December 2011

The term genocide was coined/defined in 1944. But, yeah, genocide itself has been around for a long time.

Did I miss in the other thread your stance, Shakes? Because I agree with Heather that you jumped all over Ash.

Yules · December 2011

bstrangely:
shakes:
The concept of genocide absolutely did not start with the Holocaust. I find that statement in and of itself offensive and if I were you I would look a little deeper into it before referencing such a poor source.

Also, one could argue either side effectively. This war has been breed into the culture after thousands of years of fighting. Unless one is a member of either group and/or has lived in the area, our opinions are based on what we have read and heard and therefore carry no weight.
um, israel did not exist until after ww2. whatever a person might imagine about the ancestral home of the people who now live in israel, the fact is, an army marched in to help them take someone else's ***. that is indefensible.
i mean seriously, if france invaded canada and said you needed to give your house to a mohawk, would you throw up your hands and say, "sure! i am so sorry for those hundreds of years of stealing your stuff!" for reals?
and i think it behooves us (particularly americans) to think about these issues, because we are financing that war. israel is not fighting it all by her lonesome. most nations who belong to the un are complicit somehow in that horror.

So where Bstrangely, do you propose the people who were murdered and oppressed by most of Europe should have established their state. In Germany? Where Neo-Naziism is still thriving today? In Communist Russia (Yes, I still call it communist based on what's going on with their elections today)...a country that blamed Jews for the war because Stalin thought that Hitler was his butt buddy until he bombed the shiit out of us (I'm from USSR originally).

So yea, IMO the state of Israel has every fvcking right to be there.

Heather R · December 2011

EllaHella:
I still want to know how liking something =/= siding with something.

::looks around. shrugs. gives up::

this relationship is only true when someone doesn't have enough cred to continue an argument of their own and they need to waffle around to maintain it.

Heather R · December 2011

Yules:
bstrangely:
shakes:
The concept of genocide absolutely did not start with the Holocaust. I find that statement in and of itself offensive and if I were you I would look a little deeper into it before referencing such a poor source.

Also, one could argue either side effectively. This war has been breed into the culture after thousands of years of fighting. Unless one is a member of either group and/or has lived in the area, our opinions are based on what we have read and heard and therefore carry no weight.
um, israel did not exist until after ww2. whatever a person might imagine about the ancestral home of the people who now live in israel, the fact is, an army marched in to help them take someone else's ***. that is indefensible.
i mean seriously, if france invaded canada and said you needed to give your house to a mohawk, would you throw up your hands and say, "sure! i am so sorry for those hundreds of years of stealing your stuff!" for reals?
and i think it behooves us (particularly americans) to think about these issues, because we are financing that war. israel is not fighting it all by her lonesome. most nations who belong to the un are complicit somehow in that horror.
So where Bstrangely, do you propose the people who were murdered and oppressed by most of Europe should have established their state. In Germany? Where Neo-Naziism is still thriving today? In Communist Russia (Yes, I still call it communist based on what's going on with their elections today)...a country that blamed Jews for the war because Stalin thought that Hitler was his butt buddy until he bombed the shiit out of us (I'm from USSR originally).
So yea, IMO the state of Israel has every fvcking right to be there.

she doesn't think it shouldn't be there or shouldn't exist. She is just illustrating why Palestinians feel the way they do.

Danaz1 · December 2011

I can't believe this is even a discussion as a jewish person who is a zionist. Israel is defending itself against terrioists who have nothing but hate in their hearts for jews and israel. What would you do if someone came to your street and blew themselves up and killed your loved ones and neighbored. Genocide is the trying to extinguish a people from the earth which is what Germany tried to do to the jews. Israel is not trying to do that they are protecting their land from people who are trying to destroy it and its people, After the holocaust they said NEVER AGAIN!

Smootchy · December 2011

Danaz1:
I can't believe this is even a discussion as a jewish person who is a zionist. Israel is defending itself against terrioists who have nothing but hate in their hearts for jews and israel. What would you do if someone came to your street and blew themselves up and killed your loved ones and neighbored. Genocide is the trying to extinguish a people from the earth which is what Germany tried to do to the jews. Israel is not trying to do that they are protecting their land from people who are trying to destroy it and its people, After the holocaust they said NEVER AGAIN!

this is sorta the story in my head, but I do not know enough about the situation to state this as fact.

megperk72 · December 2011

Heather R:
Yules:
bstrangely:
shakes:

The concept of genocide absolutely did not start with the Holocaust. I find that statement in and of itself offensive and if I were you I would look a little deeper into it before referencing such a poor source.

Also, one could argue either side effectively. This war has been breed into the culture after thousands of years of fighting. Unless one is a member of either group and/or has lived in the area, our opinions are based on what we have read and heard and therefore carry no weight.

um, israel did not exist until after ww2. whatever a person might imagine about the ancestral home of the people who now live in israel, the fact is, an army marched in to help them take someone else's ***. that is indefensible.

i mean seriously, if france invaded canada and said you needed to give your house to a mohawk, would you throw up your hands and say, "sure! i am so sorry for those hundreds of years of stealing your stuff!" for reals?

and i think it behooves us (particularly americans) to think about these issues, because we are financing that war. israel is not fighting it all by her lonesome. most nations who belong to the un are complicit somehow in that horror.

So where Bstrangely, do you propose the people who were murdered and oppressed by most of Europe should have established their state. In Germany? Where Neo-Naziism is still thriving today? In Communist Russia (Yes, I still call it communist based on what's going on with their elections today)...a country that blamed Jews for the war because Stalin thought that Hitler was his butt buddy until he bombed the shiit out of us (I'm from USSR originally).

So yea, IMO the state of Israel has every fvcking right to be there.

she doesn't think it shouldn't be there or shouldn't exist. She is just illustrating why Palestinians feel the way they do.

Agreed. Israel is trying to TAKE the land from the Palestinians that have made homes there. The Palestinians are not trying to take Israel. I don't think anyone is saying Israel shouldn't exist, just that they should leave Palestine alone. Yes, there are Palestinians that are unjustifiably killing innocent Israelites, but don't be so naive to think that it doesn't go both ways. When you've been bombed, your family/friends have been killed, your food supply cut off and you know no other life than war, this becomes a way of life. Sad, but true.

Kitiara5512 · December 2011

Think of the house elves, or Kreacher in particular anyway. Remember in book 7 when Hermione mentioned that what do house elves care for wizard wars, they only know and care when someone is nice to them because the horrible things they go through are normal and routine, so ofcourse when Bellatrix and Narcissa were nice he gave them all the info he could?

The same for many people, who, having been oppressed all their lives, do not care for politics and such because none of that will make a difference to their daily lives now, but they will instead support and provide sustenance and assistance for those who, in whatever small ways, make their life better, even if it brings ruin in the long run, or hurts others, or if the people they are supporting are plain evil.

Does that make sense? To me, that line of thinking does not make it acceptable, but I can understand it. I think thats one reason why terrorism is so supported in some countries, because locally those same terrorists are taking care of their people, even if they are planting bombs and killing people elsewhere.

Heather R · December 2011

megperk72:
Heather R:
[
she doesn't think it shouldn't be there or shouldn't exist. She is just illustrating why Palestinians feel the way they do.

Agreed. Israel is trying to TAKE the land from the Palestinians that have made homes there. The Palestinians are not trying to take Israel.

Indifferent

Abort mission.

Danaz1 · December 2011

this is a war so don't think that inocent people aren't going to get killed it happens in every war that has ever exsisted. I don't like it anymore then most people but its reality. Israel is absolutly justified in what they are doing in order to protect their land from terriosts. What the plo is doing is not far war it is terriosim. Israel has given up a lot of land to the palenstians. What they want is jeresulam and Israel will never give that up rightly so. It belongs to them read the bible. The palestians don't want to share the land they want the israelis out .

Yules · December 2011

megperk72:
Heather R:
Yules:
bstrangely:
shakes:

The concept of genocide absolutely did not start with the Holocaust. I find that statement in and of itself offensive and if I were you I would look a little deeper into it before referencing such a poor source.

Also, one could argue either side effectively. This war has been breed into the culture after thousands of years of fighting. Unless one is a member of either group and/or has lived in the area, our opinions are based on what we have read and heard and therefore carry no weight.

um, israel did not exist until after ww2. whatever a person might imagine about the ancestral home of the people who now live in israel, the fact is, an army marched in to help them take someone else's ***. that is indefensible.

i mean seriously, if france invaded canada and said you needed to give your house to a mohawk, would you throw up your hands and say, "sure! i am so sorry for those hundreds of years of stealing your stuff!" for reals?

and i think it behooves us (particularly americans) to think about these issues, because we are financing that war. israel is not fighting it all by her lonesome. most nations who belong to the un are complicit somehow in that horror.

So where Bstrangely, do you propose the people who were murdered and oppressed by most of Europe should have established their state. In Germany? Where Neo-Naziism is still thriving today? In Communist Russia (Yes, I still call it communist based on what's going on with their elections today)...a country that blamed Jews for the war because Stalin thought that Hitler was his butt buddy until he bombed the shiit out of us (I'm from USSR originally).

So yea, IMO the state of Israel has every fvcking right to be there.

she doesn't think it shouldn't be there or shouldn't exist. She is just illustrating why Palestinians feel the way they do.

Agreed. Israel is trying to TAKE the land from the Palestinians that have made homes there. The Palestinians are not trying to take Israel. I don't think anyone is saying Israel shouldn't exist, just that they should leave Palestine alone. Yes, there are Palestinians that are unjustifiably killing innocent Israelites, but don't be so naive to think that it doesn't go both ways. When you've been bombed, your family/friends have been killed, your food supply cut off and you know no other life than war, this becomes a way of life. Sad, but true.

At the moment, Israel isn't trying to take anything from Palestine. In fact, Israel gave up some territory on the Gaza strip in the recent years to come to some sort of a compromise. Palestine's food supply hasn't come from Israel in many decades.

Am I missing the part where shakes "jumped" all over ashnoelle?

I know there are a couple of bumpies on here who are from Israel, I wonder what their stance on all of this is. Like shakes said, unless you live there your. Argument doesn't hold much weight. It's pretty much the same thing as the French shunning the US for retaliating for the 9.11 attacks.

Heather R · December 2011

Yules:

Am I missing the part where shakes "jumped" all over ashnoelle?

The concept of genocide absolutely did not start with the Holocaust. I find that statement in and of itself offensive and if I were you I would look a little deeper into it before referencing such a poor source.

Shakes does things like this a few times a week. She freaked out on me because she took me saying Canada has death panels and makes you wait 6 months to get a c-section seriously. I'm pretty sure she got all pearl clutchy about someone who said that Michelle Duggar's late miscarriage might mean she should stop getting pregnant.

tartaruga · December 2011

shakes:
The concept of genocide absolutely did not start with the Holocaust. I find that statement in and of itself offensive and if I were you I would look a little deeper into it before referencing such a poor source.

Also, one could argue either side effectively. This war has been breed into the culture after thousands of years of fighting. Unless one is a member of either group and/or has lived in the area, our opinions are based on what we have read and heard and therefore carry no weight.

No it hasn't. The conflict dates back to the late 1800s and early 1900s and is primarily the fault of the British who promised that land to both sides at the same time, then threw up their hands and let them fight it out on their own after WWII. It is not a cultural or religious conflict, it's a geopolitical one. Read your history.

shakes · December 2011

Yules:

I refuse continue this argument. It's clear which state we side with and continuing this debate would be like fighting on two sides of the abortion issue.

Here's a My UO for tonight. I never understood why new threads are created for existing ones that pertain to the same issue. Here's my guess, when someone doesn't have enough cred to continue an argument of their own they need to recruit other posters to keep it going for them.

YUP!

tartaruga · December 2011

Danaz1:
this is a war so don't think that inocent people aren't going to get killed it happens in every war that has ever exsisted. I don't like it anymore then most people but its reality. Israel is absolutly justified in what they are doing in order to protect their land from terriosts. What the plo is doing is not far war it is terriosim. Israel has given up a lot of land to the palenstians. What they want is jeresulam and Israel will never give that up rightly so. It belongs to them read the bible. The palestians don't want to share the land they want the israelis out .

So now you think that decisions about what land belongs to whom should be based on YOUR religion?

And honestly, if someone came into your house at gunpoint, kicked you out, said "this is my house now, God says it's supposed to be" and then offered to let you live in a shed in the backyard, would you say "Oh ok great, we can just share!"?

shakes · December 2011

Heather R:

Yules:

Am I missing the part where shakes "jumped" all over ashnoelle?

The concept of genocide absolutely did not start with the Holocaust. I find that statement in and of itself offensive and if I were you I would look a little deeper into it before referencing such a poor source.

Shakes does things like this a few times a week. She freaked out on me because she took me saying Canada has death panels and makes you wait 6 months to get a c-section seriously. I'm pretty sure she got all pearl clutchy about someone who said that Michelle Duggar's late miscarriage might mean she should stop getting pregnant.

Yeah cause the women are here are so well known for their ability to keep their shiiit under control. I didn't flip out at all. Her statement was wrong, she rephrased. I find it interesting that some ladies on here pick and choose when semantics count. The concept of Genocide has been around for a few thousand years, not the word itself, two different things. Also, a lot of people got "all pearl clutchy" over the shitty comments about the Duggers baby. I don't defend their choices, but I do defend their right to be treated with some respect in terms of their loss. So sorry your poorly worded sarcasm about Canada's medical state was misread.

Heather R · December 2011

shakes:

Yeah cause the women are here are so well known for their ability to keep their shiiit under control. I didn't flip out at all. Her statement was wrong, she rephrased. I find it interesting that some ladies on here pick and choose when semantics count. The concept of Genocide has been around for a few thousand years, not the word itself, two different things. Also, a lot of people got "all pearl clutchy" over the shitty comments about the Duggers baby. I don't defend their choices, but I do defend their right to be treated with some respect in terms of their loss. So sorry your poorly worded sarcasm about Canada's medical state was misread.

It wasn't poorly worded. It was sarcastic. I'm sorry your inferential reading skills are deficient.

Can't you just apologize and thank her for clarifying? Lord.

bstrangely · December 2011

Yules:
So where Bstrangely, do you propose the people who were murdered and oppressed by most of Europe should have established their state. In Germany? Where Neo-Naziism is still thriving today? In Communist Russia (Yes, I still call it communist based on what's going on with their elections today)...a country that blamed Jews for the war because Stalin thought that Hitler was his butt buddy until he bombed the shiit out of us (I'm from USSR originally).
So yea, IMO the state of Israel has every fvcking right to be there.

they have every right to displace other people?

that's ludicrous. i never said they shouldn't have had somewhere to go. it speaks volumes that they were turned away by the united states. we were just as bigoted and awful as every other nation. and evidently, some of us still are, since you just cannot even begin to think the people who were living there had some kind of right to their homes.

can you touch on that concept at all? why is it ok to shove the brown people over?

Heather R · December 2011

Danaz1:
It belongs to them read the bible. The palestians don't want to share the land they want the israelis out .

Israel wouldn't be reading the Bible. Israelis would probably be reading the Tanakh or the Torah for this information.

You should probably read the Koran, though, to understand why Palestinians want the Israelis out. According to the Koran, it "belongs to them read t he Koran. " It's holy ground to the Palestinians, too. Whose Holy Land trumps whose? Judeo-Christian God is the tiebreaker?

Disclaimer: pro-Israel but understand the opposition's feelings.

pinkiemo · December 2011

bstrangely:
Yules:
So where Bstrangely, do you propose the people who were murdered and oppressed by most of Europe should have established their state. In Germany? Where Neo-Naziism is still thriving today? In Communist Russia (Yes, I still call it communist based on what's going on with their elections today)...a country that blamed Jews for the war because Stalin thought that Hitler was his butt buddy until he bombed the shiit out of us (I'm from USSR originally).
So yea, IMO the state of Israel has every fvcking right to be there.

they have every right to displace other people?

that's ludicrous. i never said they shouldn't have had somewhere to go. it speaks volumes that they were turned away by the united states. we were just as bigoted and awful as every other nation. and evidently, some of us still are, since you just cannot even begin to think the people who were living there had some kind of right to their homes.

can you touch on that concept at all? why is it ok to shove the brown people over?

Huh? Which country are you talking about here? The Israelis (mostly sephardic and mizrahi jews) are of the "brown" color too.

Momtobug31 · December 2011

anna karenina:

[Oh, it says so in the bible? Has someone given a copy to the Palestinians yet? Maybe they don't realize that God had already had the title work and a boundary survey done.

This.

pinkiemo · December 2011

Heather R:

Danaz1:
It belongs to them read the bible. The palestians don't want to share the land they want the israelis out .

Israel wouldn't be reading the Bible. Israelis would probably be reading the Tanakh or the Torah for this information.

You should probably read the Koran, though, to understand why Palestinians want the Israelis out. According to the Koran, it "belongs to them read t he Koran. " It's holy ground to the Palestinians, too. Whose Holy Land trumps whose? Judeo-Christian God is the tiebreaker?

Disclaimer: pro-Israel but understand the opposition's feelings.

Well duh, Moses was before Jesus and Jesus was before Muhammad so obviously the oldest claim wins!

::said with sarcasm for those who didn't catch it::

bstrangely · December 2011

Danaz1:
this is a war so don't think that inocent people aren't going to get killed it happens in every war that has ever exsisted. I don't like it anymore then most people but its reality. Israel is absolutly justified in what they are doing in order to protect their land from terriosts. What the plo is doing is not far war it is terriosim. Israel has given up a lot of land to the palenstians. What they want is jeresulam and Israel will never give that up rightly so. It belongs to them read the bible. The palestians don't want to share the land they want the israelis out .

israel is justified when they continue to displace more people?

https://www.presstv.ir/detail/215340.html

and anyway, y'all are winning! YAY! doesn't that make you feel good?

0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 24,813 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967

https://www.ifamericansknew.org/

all in a day's work for god's people, right?

bstrangely · December 2011

pinkiemo:
bstrangely:
Yules:
So where Bstrangely, do you propose the people who were murdered and oppressed by most of Europe should have established their state. In Germany? Where Neo-Naziism is still thriving today? In Communist Russia (Yes, I still call it communist based on what's going on with their elections today)...a country that blamed Jews for the war because Stalin thought that Hitler was his butt buddy until he bombed the shiit out of us (I'm from USSR originally).
So yea, IMO the state of Israel has every fvcking right to be there.

they have every right to displace other people?

that's ludicrous. i never said they shouldn't have had somewhere to go. it speaks volumes that they were turned away by the united states. we were just as bigoted and awful as every other nation. and evidently, some of us still are, since you just cannot even begin to think the people who were living there had some kind of right to their homes.

can you touch on that concept at all? why is it ok to shove the brown people over?

Huh? Which country are you talking about here? The Israelis (mostly sephardic and mizrahi jews) are of the "brown" color too.

i never said what color they were. i asked why it was ok to take the land. are you saying it's totally cool when it's given to other brown people?

and i reserve my right to point out that nobody was asking white people to go anywhere. at no point did anyone say, "hey, let's give em germany!" which would have at least made some sense.

Heather R · December 2011

bstrangely:

israel is justified when they continue to displace more people?

https://www.presstv.ir/detail/215340.html

and anyway, y'all are winning! YAY! doesn't that make you feel good?

0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 24,813 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967

https://www.ifamericansknew.org/

all in a day's work for god's people, right?

mrsjengle · December 2011

Anyone up for a history lesson?

Historically, how did this all start? Not biblically, because I think that is just dependent on what your religion is.

I'm only 29, and most of my history courses/classes throughout high school and college spent more time on the Revolutionary War, Civil War, and the Vietnam War. Since the early 1990s, there has obviously been more of a focus on this area. I know little about all of it, but I'd like to know more. School me.

pinkiemo · December 2011

bstrangely:
pinkiemo:
bstrangely:
Yules:
So where Bstrangely, do you propose the people who were murdered and oppressed by most of Europe should have established their state. In Germany? Where Neo-Naziism is still thriving today? In Communist Russia (Yes, I still call it communist based on what's going on with their elections today)...a country that blamed Jews for the war because Stalin thought that Hitler was his butt buddy until he bombed the shiit out of us (I'm from USSR originally).
So yea, IMO the state of Israel has every fvcking right to be there.

they have every right to displace other people?

that's ludicrous. i never said they shouldn't have had somewhere to go. it speaks volumes that they were turned away by the united states. we were just as bigoted and awful as every other nation. and evidently, some of us still are, since you just cannot even begin to think the people who were living there had some kind of right to their homes.

can you touch on that concept at all? why is it ok to shove the brown people over?

Huh? Which country are you talking about here? The Israelis (mostly sephardic and mizrahi jews) are of the "brown" color too.

i never said what color they were. i asked why it was ok to take the land. are you saying it's totally cool when it's given to other brown people?

and i reserve my right to point out that nobody was asking white people to go anywhere. at no point did anyone say, "hey, let's give em germany!" which would have at least made some sense.

It seemed like you were saying that white people were coming in and displacing brown people, but maybe that's not what you meant.

And no it doesn't make sense to give them Germany. The historical land of Judea, as decribed by the Roman historian Josephus, encompasses the present land of Isreal and included Jerusalem as it's capital. Historically Isreal belonged to the Jews. Not to say that the Palestinians don't also have a right to be there, but let's not pretend the Israelis don't.

ETA: spelling

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Israel, Palestine, and genocide

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