For those of you not tired of the bfing debate

robinsokj · November 2011

here, have a looksie at what one hospital in GA put in their nursery

mocklerja · November 2011

The line. They have crossed it. Unbelievable.

ASmallWonder · November 2011

And having my hospital pass such blatant judgement on my legal parenting choices would increase the risk of my foot up their ass.

Smootchy · November 2011

::adds to sign::

And if a mother can not physically breastfeed for any reason, you will probably go to hell. Best of luck.

Tongue Tied

sillypit · November 2011

BFab11 · November 2011

Wow, are we going to have signs in operating rooms listing the risks of C-sections, or in delivery rooms talking about how bad epis are for mom and baby? WTF.

I am a huge BFing advocate but this crosses so many lines.

argonne · November 2011

I'm a huge proponent of breastfeeding, but I find this very offensive.

sillypit · November 2011

BFab11:
Wow, are we going to have signs in operating rooms listing the risks of C-sections, or in delivery rooms talking about how bad epis are for mom and baby? WTF.
I am a huge BFing advocate but this crosses so many lines.

I had to sign a paper before my C-Section that acknowledged that I could DIE. Thanks A-holes.

historychick79 · November 2011

faith194 · November 2011

Ugh, I wanted to EBF so badly, but it was not in the cards for us for a myriad of reasons. DS had BM for 12 weeks, along with formula. Even if I didn't formula feed, I'd still find that completely offensive. Some women can't feed their child with BM for many reasons. Some choose not to. How many of our parents were ff due to the propoganda of their time that formula was best?

TiffanyBerry · November 2011

Would you guys find it less offensive without the last sentence? Because the whole first statement is simply a listing of facts. I *DO* totally see how the use of the phrase "the healthy way" is offensive, and offering judgement, and think they should have left that off. But I feel that people would probably have been offended just by a listing of the facts as well... Would you have?

goldenleaves · November 2011

That definitely crosses the line, but I'm not surprised. A lot of hospitals aren't supplying formula anymore either.

I had a terrible nurse PP when DS couldn't latch. She referred to formula as "the dreaded F word" LOL!

robinsokj · November 2011

sillypit:
BFab11:
Wow, are we going to have signs in operating rooms listing the risks of C-sections, or in delivery rooms talking about how bad epis are for mom and baby? WTF.
I am a huge BFing advocate but this crosses so many lines.
I had to sign a paper before my C-Section that acknowledged that I could DIE. Thanks A-holes.

I'm pretty sure you have to sign a waiver like that no matter how you get the baby out

Yules · November 2011

sillypit:
BFab11:
Wow, are we going to have signs in operating rooms listing the risks of C-sections, or in delivery rooms talking about how bad epis are for mom and baby? WTF.
I am a huge BFing advocate but this crosses so many lines.
I had to sign a paper before my C-Section that acknowledged that I could DIE. Thanks A-holes.

I signed something too. I didn't want to read it because I had a feeling it would have something to that effect. It's smart on my part not to read things I sign before major surgery

faith194 · November 2011

TiffanyBerry:
Would you guys find it less offensive without the last sentence? Because the whole first statement is simply a listing of facts. I *DO* totally see how the use of the phrase "the healthy way" is offensive, and offering judgement, and think they should have left that off. But I feel that people would probably have been offended just by a listing of the facts as well... Would you have?

Are they facts, though? I am genuinely curious. Any peer reviewed material to "prove" them?

shakes · November 2011

I'm disgusted! Cholera...these people should be ASHAMED of themselves. One can only assume they have a free breastmilk bank in this hospital, they better have one after posting something like THIS. Fvckers.

OhSewCrafty · November 2011

I'm all for breastfeeding, but that is completely offensive. Unless they have the world's best, 100% guaranteed LC staff that can make BF work like magic for everyone, this is just an unnecessary, guilt tripping sign.

nealbl · November 2011

This hospital is probably funded by Giselle Bundchen

ASmallWonder · November 2011

faith194:
TiffanyBerry:
Would you guys find it less offensive without the last sentence? Because the whole first statement is simply a listing of facts. I *DO* totally see how the use of the phrase "the healthy way" is offensive, and offering judgement, and think they should have left that off. But I feel that people would probably have been offended just by a listing of the facts as well... Would you have?

Are they facts, though? I am genuinely curious. Any peer reviewed material to "prove" them?

I'm wondering the same thing. I think it's the SIDS reference that bothers me most because the whole point is that that is unexplained. So even if more kids who die of SIDS were using formula, correlation doesn't equal causation and I find it appalling that medical professionals would dare imply it does.

BFab11 · November 2011

sillypit:
BFab11:
Wow, are we going to have signs in operating rooms listing the risks of C-sections, or in delivery rooms talking about how bad epis are for mom and baby? WTF.
I am a huge BFing advocate but this crosses so many lines.
I had to sign a paper before my C-Section that acknowledged that I could DIE. Thanks A-holes.

That makes sense because obviously you have to consent to a major surgery. But plastering it on a sign when the decision has been made already is just bullying.

robinsokj · November 2011

nealbl:
This hospital is probably funded by Giselle Bundchen

haha, nice

lildevil968 · November 2011

When my DD was born I asked for formula because I had already decided not to BF, the hospital staff told me that they where a Breastfeeding only hospital, and if I wanted to have it I would have to buy it from the store. The closest store was the gift shop, and a can of formula was nearly $35 there for a small can.

bstrangely · November 2011

i am curious... did they post that because they are distributing formula? our hospital gave us a bunch, so maybe some lawyer is just trying to cover their bases.

shakes · November 2011

TiffanyBerry:
Would you guys find it less offensive without the last sentence? Because the whole first statement is simply a listing of facts. I *DO* totally see how the use of the phrase "the healthy way" is offensive, and offering judgement, and think they should have left that off. But I feel that people would probably have been offended just by a listing of the facts as well... Would you have?

Seriously? I'm offended because it's biased fear mongering. I find it hard to believe that bc my kid was FF he will be more likely to contract Cholera!! Also, not one ear infection. These are NOT facts!

wife1014 · November 2011

TiffanyBerry:
Would you guys find it less offensive without the last sentence? Because the whole first statement is simply a listing of facts. I *DO* totally see how the use of the phrase "the healthy way" is offensive, and offering judgement, and think they should have left that off. But I feel that people would probably have been offended just by a listing of the facts as well... Would you have?

Facts, really?

OhSewCrafty · November 2011

elmoali:
faith194:
TiffanyBerry:
Would you guys find it less offensive without the last sentence? Because the whole first statement is simply a listing of facts. I *DO* totally see how the use of the phrase "the healthy way" is offensive, and offering judgement, and think they should have left that off. But I feel that people would probably have been offended just by a listing of the facts as well... Would you have?

Are they facts, though? I am genuinely curious. Any peer reviewed material to "prove" them?
I'm wondering the same thing. I think it's the SIDS reference that bothers me most because the whole point is that that is unexplained. So even if more kids who die of SIDS were using formula, correlation doesn't equal causation and I find it appalling that medical professionals would dare imply it does.

Yes

And if in the US, more FF babies die from SIDS couldn't that be because there are generally more FF babies?

nealbl · November 2011

TiffanyBerry:
Would you guys find it less offensive without the last sentence? Because the whole first statement is simply a listing of facts. I *DO* totally see how the use of the phrase "the healthy way" is offensive, and offering judgement, and think they should have left that off. But I feel that people would probably have been offended just by a listing of the facts as well... Would you have?

the whole thing is offensive. This is theory not fact. No one knows what exactly causes SIDS and I highly doubt formula feeding increases the risk. I breast fed and my child has seasonal allergies, my BFF breastfed and her child has many food and drink allergies. An aquaintance of mine did not breatfeed a single day and her son is one of the healthiest kids I know. So that sign is complete BS.

TiffanyBerry · November 2011

Ok, if you want to split semantics, they are scientifically theories. But they are all theories with substantial solid research behind them. Which is about as good as you get in something like this (nutrition).

I do not have time to look through all of the literature, but here are over 1200 studies on breastfeeding, about half of which look to be talking about the effects on the health and growth of the baby: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=benefits of breastfeeding

All of the anecdotal evidence you guys are provided doesn't contradict the studies. No study says "if you FF, your baby will get ear infections", it says "averaged over all of the kids in the study, FF babies get more frequent ear infections than BF babies", for example. Doesn't say that no FF babies went ear-infection free, doesn't say some BF babies had lots of trouble with ear infections. Just averages.

SIDS is the same situation - you are right that the studies show correlation. And, honestly, most of the people I know speculate that it may not specifically be the boob juice causing the difference, but that more BF'ing moms do some amount of co-sleeping (same room or same bed) than FF'ing moms, and THAT has a whole number of reasons to make a statistical difference (per McKenna's cosleeping studies).

All that said, I am not really trying to defend the sign. Publically posted like that, it really needs a better writer to try to convey anything that might be well received. But I was truly curious.

I want to add, even if I think all of what that sign says is true (and, yeah, in the US, putting cholera on the list is just ridiculous - that's probably one of the reasons it feels so inflammatory, that and SIDS), that doesn't mean FF is wrong or should be judged. I put my child in the car to go places she doesn't need to go - that increases her risk of dying in a car accident just for my convenience. I walk around the neighborhood with her instead of only walking in indoor facilities - that increases her risk of being hit by a car. There are all sorts of decisions we make that put some things at higher risk in trade for something else, and in the case of FF, the same is true and there are plenty of times when it is absolutely the right choice.

OhSewCrafty · November 2011

lildevil968:
When my DD was born I asked for formula because I had already decided not to BF, the hospital staff told me that they where a Breastfeeding only hospital, and if I wanted to have it I would have to buy it from the store. The closest store was the gift shop, and a can of formula was nearly $35 there for a small can.

I just don't understand how they can do that? Its a mother's choice.

OhSewCrafty · November 2011

Cassie730:
That actually breaks my heart. Like people who are upset about not being able to BF and hormonal from child birth need any more guilt and frustration. There's a big difference in handing out a pamphlet about the benefits of BFing and posting a big sign saying BFing is the "HEALTHY" way. HealthIER? Maybe. But it's not the only way to have a HEALTHY HAPPY baby :-(

I agree with this. Even formula literature says, "Remember, breast milk is best, but when that's not working out, this is second to nature."

lildevil968 · November 2011

TiffanyBerry:

Ok, if you want to split semantics, they are scientifically theories. But they are all theories with substantial solid research behind them. Which is about as good as you get in something like this (nutrition).

I do not have time to look through all of the literature, but here are over 1200 studies on breastfeeding, about half of which look to be talking about the effects on the health and growth of the baby: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=benefits of breastfeeding

That's just it. Studies are just studies. For every study you find in favor of something, there is another study out there contradicting it.

numeria11 · November 2011

Completely crazy

And umm Cholera....? Unless I'm making my kid's formula with water from some contaminated stream or in some crazy third world country is this really even an issue in the US? I would like to see the stats they have to back that one up I'm guessing they are all studies done in developing countries with poor sanitation and lack of access to clean water, so not so much relevant in Georgia.

robinsokj · November 2011

TiffanyBerry:
Ok, if you want to split semantics, they are scientifically theories. But they are all theories with substantial solid research behind them. Which is about as good as you get in something like this (nutrition).
I do not have time to look through all of the literature, but here are over 1200 studies on breastfeeding, about half of which look to be talking about the effects on the health and growth of the baby: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=benefits of breastfeeding

This is correlation, not causation. FF will not cause these things.

JillianGoe · November 2011

chapski:

::adds to sign::

And if a mother can not physically breastfeed for any reason, you will probably go to hell. Best of luck.

Yes

Ciconrad · November 2011

TiffanyBerry:

Ok, if you want to split semantics, they are scientifically theories. But they are all theories with substantial solid research behind them. Which is about as good as you get in something like this (nutrition).

I do not have time to look through all of the literature, but here are over 1200 studies on breastfeeding, about half of which look to be talking about the effects on the health and growth of the baby: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=benefits of breastfeeding

I'm not sure what semantics has to do with anything. Yes, there are scientific studies that show breastfed babies have lower risks of developing diabetes, cholera (because there's a lot of that in the US) or a whole host of other diseases...but that does not mean that breastfeeding in and of itself lowers the risks of those. There is likely other factors effecting those statistics. To then post information that is purposely misleading and unclear as to that fact is irresponisble, IMO.

bstrangely · November 2011

elmoali:
faith194:
TiffanyBerry:
Would you guys find it less offensive without the last sentence? Because the whole first statement is simply a listing of facts. I *DO* totally see how the use of the phrase "the healthy way" is offensive, and offering judgement, and think they should have left that off. But I feel that people would probably have been offended just by a listing of the facts as well... Would you have?

Are they facts, though? I am genuinely curious. Any peer reviewed material to "prove" them?
I'm wondering the same thing. I think it's the SIDS reference that bothers me most because the whole point is that that is unexplained. So even if more kids who die of SIDS were using formula, correlation doesn't equal causation and I find it appalling that medical professionals would dare imply it does.

it seems to be a correlation drawn from the results of many studies. nobody seems to know what the mechanism is, so it might be something besides bfing that's really preventative/protective.

https://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/news/20110613/breastfeeding-cuts-sids-risk

so, the correlation is strong enough that it needs more research. the studies that show the link are peer reviewed and almost all the ones i've read conclude that parents should be told of the link.

Crystal318 · November 2011

Can someone please tell me what the sign says? The pic wont open on my computer and I really want to know!!!

Thanks!!!

JoannaJes · November 2011

Why do people assume that most women are so dumb that they can't figure out the best way to feed their babies? I think this sign reeks of sexism.

turtle1120 · November 2011

I never even tried to breastfeed. I know, I'm a horrible mother. But neither my doctor, nor anyone at the hospital, ever said anything negative about formula feeding and never tried to persuade me to do otherwise. Honestly, if I saw this sign at the hospital I would have laughed because it's so ridiculous.

DD has never had any weird diseases, has never had an ear infection (or any sickness beyond a cold), and is a VERY happy and healthy baby.

bstrangely · November 2011

lildevil968:
TiffanyBerry:

Ok, if you want to split semantics, they are scientifically theories. But they are all theories with substantial solid research behind them. Which is about as good as you get in something like this (nutrition).

I do not have time to look through all of the literature, but here are over 1200 studies on breastfeeding, about half of which look to be talking about the effects on the health and growth of the baby: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=benefits of breastfeeding

That's just it. Studies are just studies. For every study you find in favor of something, there is another study out there contradicting it.

ok, find us 1. here are a ton showing that bfing is associated with a reduced risk of sids.

i don't agree with the signage. it is tacky. but holy ***, studies are not just studies when there is a huge formula industry that would publicize the *** out of anything that said formula > breast. shouldn't we pay attention to what the medical community is working with?

TiffanyBerry · November 2011

EllaHella:
TiffanyBerry:

Ok, if you want to split semantics, they are scientifically theories. But they are all theories with substantial solid research behind them. Which is about as good as you get in something like this (nutrition).

I do not have time to look through all of the literature, but here are over 1200 studies on breastfeeding, about half of which look to be talking about the effects on the health and growth of the baby: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=benefits of breastfeeding

Oh FFS. We get it. It was shoved down our throat starting on 1st Tri.

You are obviously a huge proponent of BFing. Wouldn't you agree that support is a better way to foster BFing? Or is just an all out guilt assault okay in your book?

No need for swearing. I already edited my post to be a little more clear. And yes - I'm a big BF'ing proponent, and yes, I think support is better. I do NOT think guilt is ok at all, for anyone, ESPECIALLY over feeding your baby, ever.

What concerns me is that we have people trying to avoid guilt by ignoring the "facts" (studies, repeatedly found correlations, SCIENCE) in favor of anecdotal information, heresay, and "I can't imainge". That bothers me. No one chooses a method of feeding because they want anything but the best for their baby, but what "the best" is will be different for different families because there's a whole lot that needs to be taken into account besides the likelihood of an ear infection. But that is *part* of the equation (a small one), and ignoring the science over fear of guilt leads to an uninformed (or blinded, anyway) decision.

If I never changed a single person's mind about the decision they made, I would at least want people to have made the decision with great clarity, so they have no reason at all to feel guilty.

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