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Toddlers: 12 - 24 Months
Non-English-speaking Americans: Survey
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Non-English-speaking Americans: Survey
I believe the store should not be held accountable if there is a fire and the exit sign is not in Mandarin.
I would hope that either the company always has the ability to choose for itself or that a law would be passed requiring that the store not need to provide info in multiple languages. I hope that there's never a law requireing all businesses be held responsible for accommodating everyone. That's just too demanding. I don't think it's fair to only accommodate one group either. I'm an all or nothing kinda girl.
Business is business. I worked in Hispanic marketing for a long time and we could see the difference in the bottom line when we designed marketing pieces in Spanish and targeted Spanish-speaking populations. Market research showed that even immigrants who speak a basic level of English feel more comfortable doing business in Spanish and making major financial decisions when they have all the information in their own language.
If you don't want their business, that's your prerogative, but it's a huge sector of the market and companies like Goya and Telemundo are making a pretty sum right now.
Yeah, and pay for gas, and go grocery shopping, and buy a car, and the thousand other things that English speaking people do on a daily basis that a foreign speaking person will won't to do once they move here. You can tell me that every foreign speaking person who moves here will immediately need to speak to Welfare to obtain food stamps! Not every person who moves here is the stereotypical poor refugee from a dystopia!
If I moved to another country, the signage and directions would be in that native language. Yes there are graphics to help, but for the safety of everyone one the road, I think it just makes sense to take the test in the language the signage is written in. And it's not just Spanish. The test can be taken in dozens of different languages. Like hecky said, its a rights vs privilege thing.
It was a Hyperbole to illustrate that is is ridiculous to assume that customer service in spanish is enabling people who don't speak english. Enabling them to what what really? There's an underlying tone to this, as if companies are letting these people "get away" with not speaking the language. That was the message I was hoping to come across.
The underlying tone is that if everything is in their native language, why would they want to learn the new language? As some one said early, you might try your broken English when you are buying groceries, but when banking, you're going to speak the language most comfortable to you, which is always going to be their native tongue.
Yet!
Yes, they don't want to learn it and we must stop enabling them, that's what it all boils down to. They are hellbent on not speaking english and we can pressure them into learning english by not cathering to them. It makes sense.
I'm getting tired of this conversation.
I rest my case.
Oh, this should be interesting, how exactly am I being a racist here?
sure, but they shouldn't get mad when that isn't available. all i'm saying is learn the language. if you need a translator because it's too technical, then schedule time with one, don't just assume that there will be one onsite 24/7.
I do believe that this is more about your underlying tone than mine. I'm not willing to discuss issues with people who just want to demonize me because I have a different viewpoint.
Oh thanks, I needed that. Now I feel much more motivated to improve my english.
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---and they communicated this to you how???
and to the poster a while back who said that maybe Spanish-speaking people are less likely to learn the language, maybe you're just exposed to one foreign population more than others, hence your conclusion. my OB is chinese and her office was in Chinatown. the hospital i delivered at was almost exclusively chinese people, many of whom did not speak any English.
You think this is so?, that most hispanics inmigrant just don't want to learn the language?, honest question.
maybe i read your post completely wrong - i was quoting your comment on them not wanting to and being "hellbent" on not learning the language as kind of an absurd statement. maybe you were being facetious and i missed it. if so, sorry.
I just thought Hecky was calling me a racist because I din't read her post well... Yeah, I wont hold it against you, LOL
Speaking as someone who has non-english speakers in my family, I think its nice if bilingual assistance is offered, and that if a company at least tries to work with people who only speak broken english, that too is appreciated. I really dont care on a personal level if someone gets a Spanish translator. I am already aware that it is highly unlikely that any company is going to start offering languages from the Indian subcontinent as an option. My family, with the exception of the one grandmother, all learned to speak English well before we moved to the US. We actually moved her because I was failing Urdu because my father had focused so much on my being able to communicate with the world outside Asia, and coming here was the next logical step.
I do, however, think that it is ridiculous when no attempt at learning English is made. You moved someplace with no real prep and then expect the people there to accomodate you because you are either lazy or dont care enough to do anything. I understand that the older a person gets, the more difficult it is to learn a new language, but the attempt should be made and see no excuse for not doing so. Getting someone to speak to you in your native language in another country is a bonus, not a right.
I also have (oh yes, another soap box) issues with the expectation that all students in Texas should learn Spanish. I will be damned if my kid learns a language that has nothing to do with his culture/heritage/family before he is fully fluent in his parents' native languages.
ETA: After reading the whole post so far, I want to change the highlighted, but dont want to do it like I am back tracking or didnt say it in the first place. I was not aware that schools in some latin american countries, including Mexico, do not always offer English or other languages as an option. Therefore, I take back the no prep part and the part about people being too lazy to learn. Yeah, it makes sense that fewer people who move here at an older age do not know any English. But I stand firm on the please try to learn so that between broken English and broken Spanish, the customer can still be assisted when no translation services are available.
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This cracks me up. Have you ever been to Spain? Or even Mexico, for that matter. There are thousands of Americans who go there without speaking more than a few words of Spanish. And yes, they are often perturbed if they cannot find anyone who speaks English to help them. In general, I have found English-speaking people to be more likely to expect that someone in a foreign country will speak their language than the reverse.
Most immigrants do learn English, if not fluently, then at least enough to communicate fairly effectively. In fact, you could argue that the more bilingual business places there are, the more likely non-English speakers are to venture out of their ethnic enclaves and interact with English speakers, and therefore are more likely to integrate than if no one at the regular store spoke their language, so they would be more likely to go only to businesses that catered to their ethnicity.
And whoever works at a hospital and was complaining about speaking other languages, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax. At a hospital of all places, they should have some ability to translate for whatever language. It could literally be a matter of life or death.
Fact is, our society today is so global, there is no way to avoid having people who speak other languages in our communities. At my workplace, we interact with people from hundreds of other countries every day. Most speak some English, but we also have a list of employees who can translate for when it's needed.
that's just it though... when i've traveled anywhere, it has not been hard to find an english speaker. it's not rare to meet people abroad who speak 5 or 7 languages. i don't understand why we as americans take it so personally. i think it really does come down to demonization of immigrants, rather than any concern about language.
Ok, but I think a lot of those places that encourage multiple languages still have an official language. While you might be understood in Spain because many people speak English as a second language, they still have an official language. I would think that most of their signs and documents (official) are printed in that. Maybe I'm wrong.
Exactly. English is very difficult to learn. Has anyone who is demanding that immigrants learn English lived in another country and learned the language well enough to discuss business?
I have lived in another country for two years. And I could have lived there for ten years and still not have been able to do that. So yes, I would have much appreciated and expected a translator if they wanted my business.
America does not have an official language.
Really? My mother-in-law is lazy and/or doesn't care to learn English and expects everyone to accommodate her? I'll let her know you think this - even though you don't know her story....part of which is that she has taken many English classes and just couldn't pick it up and is also humiliated to try to speak broken English because she is very shy. I am sure she is not the only one too. But yea, totally lazy.
ok, here's where i confess that i can't give a ***. we've been at war with two countries for 10 years, we almost flushed our economy down the toilet and our health care policies are going to bankrupt everyone soon. how is it that this is such a big deal to you? really?
and last i checked, most signs are in english. wtf do we need an official language for?
Yes, our culture as we know is on the brink of changing. Every day we hear about how other countries are taking over economics and health care (I say that since Obama care bounced several ideas off other countries like European ones). And while we should definitely all care about each one of these individual issues, many people feel like our country is quickly becoming someone else's. So while you say we should care about our country so deeply, you're missing that point. That is what everyone is doing. Now of course I can't speak for everyone, but I think a lot of American's feel threatened by the growing number of Spanish speaking people in the country. And in a time, as you pointed out, that we as a country are failing, people want to feel secure with their most basic rights. You're asking people to be ok with a pretty big change here. I think most people are willing to help, to an extent. But, at the end of the day, we want to feel like it's still our country too. Maybe that's not how everyone feels. But most people I talk to who have feel similar to me, feel this way. It's not that we hate other cultures; it's that we don't want to feel like we're losing our own.
Spain has about 5 different "official languages", depending on which part of the country you are in. For example, in Barcelona, signs are in Catalan. In Galicia, they speak Gallego. In Basque areas they speak Euskera. Most people there speak more than one language though, which is pretty different from the US. Even our neighbors to the north also have more than one official language... I believe everything has to be in both English and French in Quebec. In Ireland, English is most widely spoken but some signs are still in Irish. The loss of Irish as the most widely spoken language is more a tragedy of colonialism than a triumph of adaptation. You'd be suprised at the language diversity within countries.
ok... when i said our health care policies were going to bankrupt us, i did not mean "obamacare." i meant the fact that we're one of the only western nations that have not socialized health care. we pay more for the same, or sometimes even worse care. when you see the costs of, for example, school tuitions going up, it is often due to the fact that insurance companies are jacking up their rates. i don't know why we tolerate that.
our country is not becoming someone else's, unless you are talking about the large corporations that have been actively buying legislation to fatten their own wallets at the expense of regular citizens.
now seriously, what basic right entitles you to control what other people speak? did you ever hear of the first amendment? ffs. if you just don't want to hear anyone speak spanish, please invest in some earplugs.
Yes, you owe them a bilingual representative, and no you don't have a right to get annoyed when they don't have a translator.
This kind of snotty attitude that's becoming so pervasive in this country is really disgusting. We ALL came here as immigrants/many of our relatives spoke little, if any, English. Unless your family is Native American. America is known as the melting pot of the world, and we consider ourselves "the best" because we do what we do to accomodate everyone and give them opportunity.
Get over yourself.
STARTING to take over our country and economy? Let me guess, all Obama's fault, right?
The Chinese have OWNED us ever since we decided we would *** and moan about jobs going overseas, while leaving our Tea-Bagger party to go to Wal-Mart afterwards and buy something 12 cents cheaper than the American-made version beause we're too effing cheap.
We have nothing to blame but the sick, hungry, bloodthirsty, greedy corporate interests. THEY are who are costing us "our identity" (whatever the hell that is).
Thats why I editted. I thought things over, especially based on information from other people's posts. But I feel like its dishonest to change my original post completely, so I added an edit. I dont think its lazy, and believe it or not, people can change their opinion. My grandmother is in the same boat as your MIL. She tries but is not very good, and is very hesitant around native english speakers because she worries she will sound stupid or ignorant.
You included the ETA in your quote, therefore I assumed you read it too. Maybe you didn't make it that far before responding. Plus I have a tendency to speak first and think later, so this will certainly not be the first or last time I do so.
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I'm confused. Some people are saying that other countries are just as "arrogant" when foreigners go to their country and expect accommodations. Is it possible that American is the only country who is bucking when foreigners or non native speakers expect accommodations? How is it possible that we are the only country?
As far as that whole, we are all foreigners unless we are Native Americans, I think that defense is a little lame. This country was taken over and claimed by Americans. This happened forever ago. What you're saying is kind of like saying France taking over Germany and then 150 years later saying well really everyone is a foreigner unless they're German and they all should speak German. As far as I'm concerned, America was fought for and won by Americans, not Native Americans. It is what it is; there's nothing callous about it. It's the way of conquering countries.
And yes, we give everyone an opportunity as long as they follow the rules established by this country. It's not free rein here. You just don't waltz into the country and say I'm free to do whatever I want. So it's a melting pot as long as they follow the American rules. Besides, I think Canada is a better example of a melting pot.
I voted for Obama, and I stand behind my vote. So that whole let me assume your political side so I can bash it won't work. And you're right, China has a huge "interest" in our country. I'm as opposed to Indian, Chinese and the French "expecting" accommodations as much as I am Mexicans.
There's a difference between saying in the long run I expect foreigners to learn English and saying that I think no foreigners should be allowed in the country. I'm just asking not to be inconvenienced because someone doesn't feel the need to learn MY native language.