Lets just do it (Vaccination discussion)

IteachPK · September 2011

This wasn't brought up in the UnpopOp but I want to see where this board falls on vaccines

YAY? NAY? or DELAY?

Clicky for those that don't want their opinion openly known.

Keep it civil. No name calling okay.

[Poll]

kellymarie68 · September 2011

This is not meant to be snarky.... does delaying them or doing them on a different schedule change the risk level or anything?? I guess I never saw it as an option so I'm just interested in the reason for doing that.

kmhunt11 · September 2011

Some people think that the combined vaccines or receiving more than 1 (or 2?) vaccine at once have higher risks. Do some research, talk to your OB, talk to your pediatrician. Don't make your decision based on the opinions and arguments you see on here. This is a great support network and I you ladies, but this is an incredibly important issue. Make SURE you read both sides of the issue and understand the implications and consequences of both sides.

(My opinion- I don't want my kid getting whooping cough, etc. I don't believe vaccines are harmful.)

SheenaNash1 · September 2011

I'm already feeling snippy today becuase of the UO lol, so I guess I'll put it out there. While I don't judge people for not circ'ing, BFing, etc and think that every parenting style should be respected, I DO judge parents who choose not to vaccinate their kids.

I totally understand doing it on a delayed schedule that suits your child's needs, but not doing it at all is totally unacceptable. You are not only putting the health of your child at risk but you are relying on all the kids who ARE vaccinated to keep your child from getting sick by keeping those diseases at bay. There is NO reliable info out there to suggest not getting any vaccinations at all.

Kathschu · September 2011

kellymarie68:
This is not meant to be snarky.... does delaying them or doing them on a different schedule change the risk level or anything?? I guess I never saw it as an option so I'm just interested in the reason for doing that.

Though Western medicine is pretty clear on this per epidemiological studies as well as drug studies from multiple funding sources that indicate no correlation between vaccination various poisonings or ASD, some parents feel more comfortable vaccinating all between ages 2-5, rather than the schedule set out by your pediatrician. Also, several vaccine appts have a series of vaccines (for example, 6 at age 2 months) so some parents are more comfortable doing each vaccine separately.

I'd highly recommend The Vaccine Wars as a pre-baby family movie. Link: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/vaccines/view/

The danger, as far as I can tell, from not vaccinating on schedule is that you leave your child at risk for infectious diseases during the period they are not vaccinated. For example, I work with refugee and immigrant clients (also live in city with a vibrant/diverse community of new Americans, elderly, etc. who may not have had access to vaccines), and I've had clients with polio, TB, Hep. B, etc. so we have to vaccinate on schedule. Or I could move to a yurt in the boundary waters, but our parents would kill us!

mhollidayesq · September 2011

Some believe that the vaccines themselves are safe, but that the cocktails are not safe and are responsible for the increase in autism in children. Most Dr.s say there is no reliable research to support this, but mothers with autistic children, especially ones who say it didn't occur until after being vaccinated say otherwise. I dont have a firm opinion one way or another...other than something is the cause for the increase in autism and it needs to be figured out sooner rather than later. It's a hard call to make. On the one hand the statistics of how many children shown signs of autism after vaccination vs. How many children the vaccines protect would suggest vaccines are a better gamble. But mother's with autistic children would certainly disagree that it's not worth the risk. So it's definitely a personal choice for everyone.

SheenaNash1 · September 2011

mhollidayesq:
Some believe that the vaccines themselves are safe, but that the cocktails are not safe and are responsible for the increase in autism in children. Most Dr.s say there is no reliable research to support this, but mothers with autistic children, especially ones who say it didn't occur until after being vaccinated say otherwise. I dont have a firm opinion one way or another...other than something is the cause for the increase in autism and it needs to be figured out sooner rather than later. It's a hard call to make. On the one hand the statistics of how many children shown signs of autism after vaccination vs. How many children the vaccines protect would suggest vaccines are a better gamble. But mother's with autistic children would certainly disagree that it's not worth the risk. So it's definitely a personal choice for everyone.

However, most of them are basing their opinions on a study that has recently been proven to be a complete load of crap. I think a lot of the time people hear about one study and then they continue to hold that opinion even after that widely talked about study has been proven false.

samcbrick · September 2011

I am a vaccine baby myself. I have had every vaccine in the books. and now if I would like to have the specific pediatrition that I love to death he requires that the children he see's to have all of their vaccines at the appropriate time. All other will unfortunately be referred to another Dr. office.

I live in a hevilaly populated Somali populated city and they do not get vaccinated and our hospital has seen the mesles and polio this year!!!

Crazy!

psychgirl33 · September 2011

SheenaNash1:
mhollidayesq:
Some believe that the vaccines themselves are safe, but that the cocktails are not safe and are responsible for the increase in autism in children. Most Dr.s say there is no reliable research to support this, but mothers with autistic children, especially ones who say it didn't occur until after being vaccinated say otherwise. I dont have a firm opinion one way or another...other than something is the cause for the increase in autism and it needs to be figured out sooner rather than later. It's a hard call to make. On the one hand the statistics of how many children shown signs of autism after vaccination vs. How many children the vaccines protect would suggest vaccines are a better gamble. But mother's with autistic children would certainly disagree that it's not worth the risk. So it's definitely a personal choice for everyone.

However, most of them are basing their opinions on a study that has recently been proven to be a complete load of crap. I think a lot of the time people hear about one study and then they continue to hold that opinion even after that widely talked about study has been proven false.

Also, the social and behavioral indicators that lead to a diagnosis on the autism spectrum typically don't occur until after the vaccines have been given....they are noticing a coincidence in timeline. That combined with the publicity of the idea that vaccines are a cause of autism is very influential to people who are desperate for a "cause".

Don't get me wrong, if my child is born with a disability I'd also want to know why. Unfortunately autism is one of those that we don't have an answer for and some people will find one that seems plausible and stick with it.

mommy2be1991 · September 2011

SheenaNash1:
I totally understand doing it on a delayed schedule that suits your child's needs, but not doing it at all is totally unacceptable. You are not only putting the health of your child at risk but you are relying on all the kids who ARE vaccinated to keep your child from getting sick by keeping those diseases at bay. There is NO reliable info out there to suggest not getting any vaccinations at all.

I totally agree. Each person is entitled to their opinion, but you MUST protect your child in some form. Remember these vaccines are tested and quite reliable. I am not denying the research regarding autism as I have limited knowledge, but from what I know, the risk is small compared to the plethora of DEADLY diseases we are vaccinated against. If you are concerned about autism, speak to your doctor and see about a different schedule, but I beg you, for your own child's health do NOT forego them completely.

IteachPK · September 2011

We plan on spacing the shots out by like a week or 2 between every 2 vaccines. We already have a pediatrician picked out that came highly recommended from our friends with children. We've already discussed vaccines and schedules and this is what we found will work for us.

Especially with my allergy to the flu vaccine I would like to know which shot causes a reaction. Its easier to figure it out, if the child only gets 1 or 2 at a time as apposed to 5 or 6

shanaynerz · September 2011

As the PPs posted, do your research, I wouldn't even just listen to your doctors, but check independent studies. I am a recent psych. major and we studied the link between autism and vaccines and there is no link, period. The reason we see it more now (just like ADHD) is because we are more aware of the symptoms and disorders than in the past. In the past people may have simply thought those with autism were mentally challenged, for example, when now we know that is not the case. Also, around the time of the vaccines (I believe as a PP said, around 2 yrs?) is when the signs really start to show for autism, so it really is simply a coinicidence.

Again, do research if you are concerned about this issue, and please make sure they are independent as if they are done by a drug company they are more often than not quite biased.

SassyRedhead · September 2011

The only veteran mom thing I will say is that if your child is sick (under the weather) on a vaccination day, PLEASE push back and wait until the child is healthy or both you and the baby will be 100% miserable. A week or so won't hurt.

.

sapphire1983 · September 2011

Another issue is that if you don't vaccinate your child or delay a vaccine your child is putting children too young for the vaccine at risk. If your child gets sick they could get another child sick as well, even one whose parents were planning on vaccinating.

SheenaNash1 · September 2011

SassyRedhead:

The only veteran mom thing I will say is that if your child is sick (under the weather) on a vaccination day, PLEASE push back and wait until the child is healthy or both you and the baby will be 100% miserable. A week or so won't hurt.

.

Good to know!

sunnyday016 · September 2011

We vaccinate DD on schedule and will do so with this baby as well.

Kristinmo · September 2011

SheenaNash1:

I'm already feeling snippy today becuase of the UO lol, so I guess I'll put it out there. While I don't judge people for not circ'ing, BFing, etc and think that every parenting style should be respected, I DO judge parents who choose not to vaccinate their kids.

I totally understand doing it on a delayed schedule that suits your child's needs, but not doing it at all is totally unacceptable. You are not only putting the health of your child at risk but you are relying on all the kids who ARE vaccinated to keep your child from getting sick by keeping those diseases at bay. There is NO reliable info out there to suggest not getting any vaccinations at all.

All of this. Exactly. I am ONLY ok with delaying as kids are 100% compliant when they start school.

There are kids who can't be vaccinated because of health issues or allergies and vaccines don't "take" in all kids. If ALL parents who can don't vaccinate, we will lose herd immunity and put those kids at risk for deadly diseases.

Babycakes29 · September 2011

kmhunt11:

Some people think that the combined vaccines or receiving more than 1 (or 2?) vaccine at once have higher risks. Do some research, talk to your OB, talk to your pediatrician. Don't make your decision based on the opinions and arguments you see on here. This is a great support network and I you ladies, but this is an incredibly important issue. Make SURE you read both sides of the issue and understand the implications and consequences of both sides.

(My opinion- I don't want my kid getting whooping cough, etc. I don't believe vaccines are harmful.)

This is really great advice. I need to do that because I never really thought twice about vaccinations because I was vaccinated so ya know... You just kinda do what your parents did when you don't know any better.

Babycakes29 · September 2011

shanaynerz:

As the PPs posted, do your research, I wouldn't even just listen to your doctors, but check independent studies. I am a recent psych. major and we studied the link between autism and vaccines and there is no link, period. The reason we see it more now (just like ADHD) is because we are more aware of the symptoms and disorders than in the past. In the past people may have simply thought those with autism were mentally challenged, for example, when now we know that is not the case. Also, around the time of the vaccines (I believe as a PP said, around 2 yrs?) is when the signs really start to show for autism, so it really is simply a coinicidence.

Again, do research if you are concerned about this issue, and please make sure they are independent as if they are done by a drug company they are more often than not quite biased.

That was my instinct the whole time. When we can't explain something we grasp at straws and coincidences which can cause people to avoid things that don't need to be avoided out of fear of the unknown and media attention. It always happens.

lulling · September 2011

I voted yes. But there are some vaccines that I probably won't get...like chicken pox vaccine or the Hep B vaccine given at birth. Other than that I am on board for the others. I have not researched a delayed schedule in depth yet so I am unaware of any benefits it may have. I will look into it. Probably in December or January when I am stuck in house because of snow and not really wanting to waddle myself off the couch.

kmiller1012 · September 2011

DS has received all his on schedule so far and I will do the same with this baby. The AAP and the Dr I chose know a lot more than I do on this subject, so I go with their recommendation.

books4brooke · September 2011

I'm going to be the unpopular one here... we delayed vaccinations with my son and even skipped some. My beliefs about vaccinations have nothing to do with the controversy over autism. BUT, vaccinations are not harmless. The U.S. government even has a fund for those who are "injured" by vaccines: https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html. Among the things that can happen is Guillan-Barre syndrome, which is no joke. So while herd immunity is a great thing, vaccines on an individual basis can be harmful. I believe it's important to look at family history of allergies or auto-immune issues and be an informed consumer about the risks and benefits of each vaccination.

It is very possible that some of my neuro issues over the past couple of years were a result of the flu shot (because of the timing of their onset). It's also possible that it was a coincidence. But we are very very careful about how we vaccinate.

For one, there's the Hep B shot, which I think is pretty ridiculous. I believe that the rationale is that they don't know which babies are at risk, so they just vaccinate everyone (has absolutely nothing to do with herd immunity). We also chose not to do the Rotavirus vaccine. We live in the first world with access to Pedialyte and Gatorade and hospitals. For us, the risk didn't outweigh the benefit.

psychgirl33 · September 2011

LGLDVM:
I voted 'yes', but I need to read more about Hep B vaccination and why it is given so early. The only reason I can surmise is that the medical community is trying to eradicate the disease and by doing the first shot at birth, they increase overall compliance. I'm not sure that is a good enough reason for me. I didn't have my Hep B vaccine until I was in my late 20's and even then, I only did it because I was working in infectious disease research. If I can't find a satisfactory answer to why it is done so early, I might ask to delay that one until the babies are a year or 2 old at least.

We travel and plan to continue to travel with our kids. Some of the places we plan to go require a Hep B vax, that's why I'm fine with it being done young. I had it done as a kid in order to travel to Eastern Europe.

books4brooke · September 2011

psychgirl33:
We travel and plan to continue to travel with our kids. Some of the places we plan to go require a Hep B vax, that's why I'm fine with it being done young. I had it done as a kid in order to travel to Eastern Europe.

That makes SO much sense for your situation and good to remember if we ever travel abroad.

MrsJetSet · September 2011

psychgirl33:
SheenaNash1:
mhollidayesq:
Some believe that the vaccines themselves are safe, but that the cocktails are not safe and are responsible for the increase in autism in children. Most Dr.s say there is no reliable research to support this, but mothers with autistic children, especially ones who say it didn't occur until after being vaccinated say otherwise. I dont have a firm opinion one way or another...other than something is the cause for the increase in autism and it needs to be figured out sooner rather than later. It's a hard call to make. On the one hand the statistics of how many children shown signs of autism after vaccination vs. How many children the vaccines protect would suggest vaccines are a better gamble. But mother's with autistic children would certainly disagree that it's not worth the risk. So it's definitely a personal choice for everyone.

However, most of them are basing their opinions on a study that has recently been proven to be a complete load of crap. I think a lot of the time people hear about one study and then they continue to hold that opinion even after that widely talked about study has been proven false.

Also, the social and behavioral indicators that lead to a diagnosis on the autism spectrum typically don't occur until after the vaccines have been given....they are noticing a coincidence in timeline. That combined with the publicity of the idea that vaccines are a cause of autism is very influential to people who are desperate for a "cause".
Don't get me wrong, if my child is born with a disability I'd also want to know why. Unfortunately autism is one of those that we don't have an answer for and some people will find one that seems plausible and stick with it.

Kaiser Permanente did a huge research study about a year ago that proved there was no risk of autism linked to vaccination. They also documented the dangers of not vaccinating. I'm sure it is easily googlable if anyone is interested in reading the research.

HSartteach · September 2011

I didn't vote because I don't quite fall in any of the categories. I did get vacs for my son, but not everything. We forgo the chicken pox and we don't do flu (which isn't really a vac.) Also, we only did a few each time we went to the pedi. So, maybe delayed a bit.

bethanno · September 2011

Not giving my son the Hep B vaccination until later. There's no reason for him to get it so young.

diana.filipi · September 2011

Vaccinated on schedule all the way so far and plan to continue.

psychgirl33 · September 2011

HSartteach:
I didn't vote because I don't quite fall in any of the categories. I did get vacs for my son, but not everything. We forgo the chicken pox and we don't do flu (which isn't really a vac.) Also, we only did a few each time we went to the pedi. So, maybe delayed a bit.

Honestly, this sounds exactly like what we plan to do.

mrs.gee · September 2011

Really recommend Dr. Sears "Vaccine Book" to anyone who wants to educate themselves a bit more. Fair warning, he hatches a theory at the end about the risk of the aluminum in some vaccines and recommends a schedule to space out these shots. His theory annoyed me because all he was doing was calling for more research, but I thought it could be read as alarmist. But, I always found it helpful before going to get DS his shots to read up on what the shots were and be able to ask questions. We vaccinated on the CDC schedule and will likely do the same.

B&T5 · September 2011

I'll keep my opinions on vaccinating to myself. But FWIW my DD has never had more then 3 shots per visit. She's never had any reactions either. I think doing research is important (but remember to see the sources when searching online). Talk to your pedi, your family, your friends then make the best informed decision that works for your child.

kiarstin · September 2011

lulling:
I voted yes. But there are some vaccines that I probably won't get...like chicken pox vaccine or the Hep B vaccine given at birth. Other than that I am on board for the others. I have not researched a delayed schedule in depth yet so I am unaware of any benefits it may have. I will look into it. Probably in December or January when I am stuck in house because of snow and not really wanting to waddle myself off the couch.

You can get hep pretty easily. Say a kid at school had it they had a sleep over and your kid used the wrong toothbrush you can get it from a manicure. Its not likely but can happen

raceyrae · September 2011

The vaccine schedule, quantities, which vaccines, etc. have been determined based on hundreds of studies by many scientist and doctors who make it their life to know the ins and outs of these diseases. As a scientist myself, and knowing what goes into getting a vaccine approved (my DH does drug design for a pharmaceutical company), I know that these aren't decisions that they come to lightly. I trust the hundreds of studies and doctors/scientists to pool their information to make these recommendations to know significantly more than I do as a mom about medicine than the one or two random stories you hear blown out of proportion on the news by celebrities, etc. We follow the CDC/AAP recommendations and will continue to with this child.

And as others have stated, you usually don't see signs for autism until 18 mo to 2 yr old which is only coincidentally when MMR shot is given. The one study that stated it was related to this vaccine has been riped apart by other scientist, found to be seriously flawed and significantly inaccurate. Thanks Jenny McCarthy for latching onto one study out of hundreds that turned out to be totally false.

psychgirl33 · September 2011

raceyrae:
The vaccine schedule, quantities, which vaccines, etc. have been determined based on hundreds of studies by many scientist and doctors who make it their life to know the ins and outs of these diseases. As a scientist myself, and knowing what goes into getting a vaccine approved (my DH does drug design for a pharmaceutical company), I know that these aren't decisions that they come to lightly. I trust the hundreds of studies and doctors/scientists to pool their information to make these recommendations to know significantly more than I do as a mom about medicine than the one or two random stories you hear blown out of proportion on the news by celebrities, etc. We follow the CDC/AAP recommendations and will continue to with this child.
And as others have stated, you usually don't see signs for autism until 18 mo to 2 yr old which is only coincidentally when MMR shot is given. The one study that stated it was related to this vaccine has been riped apart by other scientist, found to be seriously flawed and significantly inaccurate. Thanks Jenny McCarthy for latching onto one study out of hundreds that turned out to be totally false.

Don't forget: also admittedly falsified by the researcher. Not that he even needed to admit that for the study to be crap (which as a researcher I'm sure you are aware if you read it at all...)

raceyrae · September 2011

psychgirl33:
raceyrae:
The vaccine schedule, quantities, which vaccines, etc. have been determined based on hundreds of studies by many scientist and doctors who make it their life to know the ins and outs of these diseases. As a scientist myself, and knowing what goes into getting a vaccine approved (my DH does drug design for a pharmaceutical company), I know that these aren't decisions that they come to lightly. I trust the hundreds of studies and doctors/scientists to pool their information to make these recommendations to know significantly more than I do as a mom about medicine than the one or two random stories you hear blown out of proportion on the news by celebrities, etc. We follow the CDC/AAP recommendations and will continue to with this child.
And as others have stated, you usually don't see signs for autism until 18 mo to 2 yr old which is only coincidentally when MMR shot is given. The one study that stated it was related to this vaccine has been riped apart by other scientist, found to be seriously flawed and significantly inaccurate. Thanks Jenny McCarthy for latching onto one study out of hundreds that turned out to be totally false.
Don't forget: also admittedly falsified by the researcher. Not that he even needed to admit that for the study to be crap (which as a researcher I'm sure you are aware if you read it at all...)

Yes, I was aware of that. Just forgot to add that one to my list as I was rushing through my response before work.

hilwithonelary · September 2011

The only thing we didn't do on schedule with DS was hep B at birth. I just didn't see the point. I know how when I get a vaccine, the injection site is sore and I feel lousy for a day or two. I figured a newborn baby already has to recover from birth, and I didn't want to add to it. We started the series at his one month appointment. We will do the same with this baby.

psychgirl33 · September 2011

raceyrae:
Yes, I was aware of that. Just forgot to add that one to my list as I was rushing through my response before work.

Stick out tongue Just felt like adding it. Not giving you crap or anything.

hilwithonelary · September 2011

For those who have said they are not giving he chickenpox vaccine, do you have a set age in mind when you will give the vaccine if your child hasn't had it yet? I think I've usually heard that 13 is when the risk of complications from the virus rises.

psychgirl33 · September 2011

hilwithonelary:
For those who have said they are not giving he chickenpox vaccine, do you have a set age in mind when you will give the vaccine if your child hasn't had it yet? I think I've usually heard that 13 is when the risk of complications from the virus rises.

One of my friends growing up got it at 12. I figured that was about when we'll do it if we decide against it as an infant. We'll see, we're not totally decided yet.

alinnolan · September 2011

psychgirl33:
SheenaNash1:

mhollidayesq:
Some believe that the vaccines themselves are safe, but that the cocktails are not safe and are responsible for the increase in autism in children. Most Dr.s say there is no reliable research to support this, but mothers with autistic children, especially ones who say it didn't occur until after being vaccinated say otherwise..

Also, the social and behavioral indicators that lead to a diagnosis on the autism spectrum typically don't occur until after the vaccines have been given....they are noticing a coincidence in timeline. That combined with the publicity of the idea that vaccines are a cause of autism is very influential to people who are desperate for a "cause".

I edited to get to the point.

I agree with both of you. Vax seems like the best choice for children and babies, but some of the newest stuff out there circulates around the mercury issue (still).

https://ecochildsplay.com/2008/04/30/environmental-mercury-and-autism-are-vaccines-still-a-culprit/

basically Mercury in Texas has been linked to a rise in autism (wether or not its been proved) and even though they say the mercury has been removed from vax they are still manufactured with mercury and they are removed (99%) later, which leaves just a little bit of mercury. Is this definitive? No.

As for the timeline issue. I definitely think that there could be mothers out there so desperate for answers that they overlook the coincidental timeline of things.

I will be getting my child vaccinated but I will be spreading it out over time.

alinnolan · September 2011

mhollidayesq:

Kaiser Permanente did a huge research study about a year ago that proved there was no risk of autism linked to vaccination. They also documented the dangers of not vaccinating. I'm sure it is easily googlable if anyone is interested in reading the research.

Personally I dont trust Kaiser Permanente. But it is good to know that they documented the dangers of not vaccinating.

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