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Austin Babies
"When did kids become the equivalent of second-hand smoke?"
Let's talk. The subject line is a quote from one of the comments and I couldn't agree more!
https://shine.yahoo.com/channel/parenting/the-no-kids-allowed-movement-is-spreading-2516110/
I've been frustrated with ill behaved children. In the past. Even now. But a crying baby is very different from a misbehaved child. I think my kids are pretty good in public but that doesn't mean we've been without occasion where one might look at Abby's tantrum and think she must be a brat and we of course, bad parents. But hello? Are we to ban all people who annoy and we'd rather not be around? My list is pretty long... people who chew with their mouths open, wear flip-flops to fancy places, anyone who is rude to waitstaff, etc....
This discussion has been closed.
Re: "When did kids become the equivalent of second-hand smoke?"
It seems a little extreme to me. I think it used to be acceptable for apt complexes to be child free. But I think that was around the time when you could also have all white apt complexes as well. So let's hope that we don't start going back down that road as well.
I believe that businesses should get to chose who they want to serve, to an extent. I don't have a problem with a fancy restaurant saying that children aren't allowed (even though there are many children that could go and behave just fine,) I also know that I have the choice not to eat there. But again, I think it then opens the doorway to other scary things. If I business then says they don't want to seat people of Middle Eastern Descent, is that acceptable too? It's their restaurant, their choice who to serve? I just think it's a slippery slope.
I also think that, while there are many times I see children have tantrums, that does not happen to everyone and it's unfair to the kids who do behave themselves. I also can't remember the last tantrum I saw. What bothers me more is some of the reactions of the parents (shaming, spanking their kids, yanking an arm) and that haunts me more than anything. So, perhaps we ban parents who lack good skills to manage them?
(JK, please don't flame me!)
I am in favor of having family sections on planes though. I have always thought that makes more sense. Perhaps those tickets are cheaper (which would be nice for the families) and incentivize those without children to want to sit near children. The children can interact with each other and keep each other entertained and I would feel a lot less worried about my child crying if there is another child and parent nearby, instead of someone who gets all bent out of shape. I sat on a plane flight once where there was a baby a couple of rows up who squawked with happiness throughout the flight. A little annoying, sure, but she was happy! And some bitchy woman between me and the baby had the nerve to ask the mother to try to make her quiet. I felt so bad for that mother. What is she supposed to do? Tape her mouth shut?
I don't see a problem with it. I don't think kids belong in fancy restaurants or movie theaters. If the business owners choose to make it a rule, then I would support their right to do so.
As for kid-free vacations, Sandals resorts already offer that and nobody has a problem with it. So now people could have more options.
IKEA already offers child-care so that you can shop child-free. I love that and we always used it. I would love for grocery stores to start offering it. I would even be willing to pay a small fee for the service.
The Austin Children's Museum already has baby day Mondays, right? When you are encouraged to bring your toddler and not older kids. Alamo Drafthouse has baby days. I see this movement being along the same lines.
I think some of the items in the article are a bit harsh like the condo, but I have to agree with some of the things. 2 weeks ago I was at La Condessa at 8 pm on a Friday. A couple and their parents were there with I believe a child around 2 who was running up and down the aisles, grabbing stuff off the table, etc. The mom just sat there and said now that's not our table.
Now I know that the 2 year old was just being 2 but his parents should not have brought him to such a nice restaurant on a Friday night that late. I wish this was the first time I was at a nice restaurant at late hours and had this happen but it's not. Fancy steak houses, sushi, etc. at 8 or 9 are not appropriate for young children. Kids are going to act up a bit and that's ok because they are young and learning, but the people at these places are paying a lot to dine and they will have little tolerance.
Part of the reason my husband and I go exclusively to Alamo is the child policy. A few months ago we couldn't get tickets there for Bridesmaids so we went somewhere else instead. A father had his 3 year old and 5 year old daughters there and DH and I guessed how long it would last (they made it through the first scene and left). There was also a one year old in there as well. The bigger point is on a Saturday night rated R movie, little kids really don't belong.
I don't have kids so it's easy to say all this. I fully expect a lot of the things we do now to change when we do. If we want dinner at Ruth's Chris with our kids it won't be at 8 on a Saturday or we'll try and get a sitter. It's stressful on the parents and the children and in many situations really not worth it. Flame away.
Not only is it unacceptable for apartment complexes to be child free, its unconstitutional. People with children cannot be prohibited from renting apartments where people without children are permitted to do so. Same for people from whatever ethnic background you want to plug in here being served as restaurants. This article isn't talking about things are are protected by the constitution, so bringing that up right to rent or not seating persons of middle-eastern decent isn't an apt comparison. eta: My point is, there is no slippery slope to fear.
I don't see a problem with prohibiting kids from first class, resorts or fancy restaurants. All weekend I was saying to DH that kids have no business on the Strip in Las Vegas. There are so many drunk people running around that its not safe, they can't even be on the floor in the casinos, and there just isn't that much for them to do there. And what can a parent do with their kid while in LV? Stay off the strip and go sightseeing, but on the strip there isn't much to do as a family. I would love it if there was a ban on kids on the Strip.
I think people are taking their kids out to places with them more than ever before. I think they are traveling on planes more and going to distant places on vacation where they have no choice to eat out more. I know we have been invited to family dinners before at nicer places that I felt might not be appropriate for DS but I always tell them we have to eat really early. I think if you eat early at a nice place, like 5-6, then people should be more tolerant. And I certainly wouldn't ever let DS run the aisles and touch other people's tables. If he starts to act up one of us takes him outside for a while. Sometimes, you are just in a situation where you may be some where not child-friendly, due to a dinner invite or vacation circumstance.
I have no problem with businesses establishing their rules about kids though. There are so many people wanting to be out with their kids that there will always be plenty of more businesses open or catering to them.
Too bad parents just can't make better decisions and not take their kids to the strip. I want to say I agree that there should be a ban of kids on the strip but ultimately the problem is the parents.
I can see maybe taking DS to Vegas just for the getaway resort pool, etc but shielding him from the strip.
Meh. I like child free places. I LOVE the Alamo for being child free. I hate to see kids at R-rated movies, especially at late showings. That isn't because the child is disruptive, but rather I think how tired that kid is and how inappropriate the viewing material is. However that's really a parenting issue.
I don't have a problem with child free restaurants. Most restaurants that may choose to enact a child free policy are probably restaurants that are not suitable for children in the first place. I wouldn't go there with my children anyway. Self advertised "family" restaurants would see their bottom line plummet if they banned kids, so I don't think that's anything to worry about.
As for airplanes, I have never had a problem with kids on planes. I tune everything out, put on my earphones, and just keep to myself. I have a harder time with the adults that want to engage me in conversation or spill over into my seat than with kids.
In all of these circumstances, I'd much rather have a no a$$holes policy than a no kids policy.
I have no problem w/ certain kid free zones. Fancy restaurants- sure. I like having quiet time w/ DH. I would like to point out, though, that the restaurant in the article is NOT what I would call a "fancy/upscale" restaurant. But, to be honest, I have never been to an upscale restaurant where kids were noticeably there. Maybe it's because DH and I go out past the boys' bedtimes for late dinners? I remember once when there was an infant at a table near ours, but the baby literally slept the entire meal.
Airlines- that's tricky. You have a much more limited selection when it comes to flying (as compared to restaurants). If the parents have paid for a seat for the kid (i.e., not a lap child) they have every right to use that seat. ETA: I am referring here to 1st class where there is talk of banning kids. If you're in the economy section, dude, fair game. It's public transportation. It's not a chartered flight.
I was actually on a flight Saturday and there was a man (early college?) who didn't realize (?) how far his voice carried. I'm not exaggerating when I say that people 5 rows up were turning around to give him the side eye- he was oblivious.
Jack was just doing his thing, looking out the window, not making a sound- but he listens to every.single.thing people say. So, when this fellow started telling his new friend/ seatmate about, "the time the O2 masks came down and his mom was screaming her @ss off and they all thought they were going to die..." I leaned across the aisle and asked him to either a) talk in a quieter voice or b) watch his language/edit his story. Point being, I would love a *that guy* free zone. But, just like everyone else on the flight, I don't get to pick and choose who purchased tickets.
I love that you did this. What was his reaction?
it reminded me of a classic 13 year old who was getting in trouble w/ his parents. you know, they try to make that "I don't care" look, but really they feel like an @ss.
several people thanked me and i am pretty certain he saw that.
That's awesome.
I posted that article on FB and I agree wholeheartedly with the people who are against having kids (toddlers/babies) in a movie theatre, especially at night, if the movie is NOT aimed at kids.
I also do have a problem with when a baby is crying and the parent does nothing to soothe them. I've seen that a lot. But then, that makes me irritated at the parent and not the kid.
Well said. I agree that there are certain situations where kids just don't belong. But I think that for every annoying kid you see out in public, I can find at least one annoying adult in the same place.
Actually this weekend, we were staying at a nice hotel for a wedding. We had the kids at the pool on Saturday afternoon, and I was a little worried they'd be intrusive. It was a Four Seasons, lots of adults lounging and drinking by the pool, and I didn't want my 4 year old splashing them with her new swimming skills, or my 1 year old interrupting their nap with her squeals of joy, so I was a bit on edge. But thankfully the kids were great-very well behaved, and there were other kids there, too, which made me feel better. Meanwhile there was a woman there that had clearly had a few drinks, lounging in the pool and yelling over to her friend on a lounge chair a story about picking up a guy in a bar last night. She was using bad language and talking about things that I'd rather not have to explain to my 4 year old. Who should be banned in that situation??
I think what this really boils down to is manners. Adults should be mindful of their behavior. There is never really any reason to use profanity in casual conversation or speak in explicit details about sensitive subjects (like sex.) There is no reason to be a boar. I've been in situations that were clearly child free but my unpleasant experience came from sauced adults who clearly don't have the manners of a pig.
Additionally, there are parents who are completely oblivious to the needs of their children. I think it's ill manners to IGNORE your crying baby or child who is having a tantrum. I think there are civilized ways to handle the situation and sometimes that means leaving a restaurant before you've finished your meal. If you know that your kids won't tolerate a situation like a late night meal, it's probably better to skip it and stay home.
In situations that are contained like an airplane, everyone needs to just CTFO. Think of it as a we're-all-in-this-together situation and have some compassion for each other.
Ditto MrsAJL.
I honestly think its a shame that policies like this are even needed. I think it should be common sense that if you want to go see an R-rated movie at 10 o'clock at night, you don't haul your tired toddler out with you.
And I wanted to add that while at least 99% of my experiences with kids being kids have been fine and awesome, there's always that small 1% of kids being kids with a parent that is either ignoring them or even encouraging bad behavior (I'm looking at you mom that was playing catch with her kid in a crowded bookstore while the rest of us gave you the side eye...) that sticks and that ends up being what people remember.
It's a shame that parents that are attentive and courteous may get shut out of places because of parents that aren't.
I totally agree. We went to see a scary movie (can't remember which one but it was a gory, slasher flick) and I swear there was a family with two little kids there...probably around 2 and 5. Seriously?! (But this is me judging them for allowing it...the kids weren't misbehaving.)
In regard to PP about care in grocery stores, when I was little I remember our stores having this. I grew up around Abilene and I remember them having a little play area (like McDonald's) that parents could drop off their kids and pick them up after. I think that's a great idea.
Anyway, I can see how it works in some situations. Personally, I think a big part of the problem is that we (as a society) have moved so far from being comfortable with discipline that it's easier (and often more acceptable) to allow the children to misbehave and act a fool then to correct their actions and potentially harm their self esteem. Granted, my child isn't born yet but I'm speaking from an educator's POV and as a person who teaches child dev so my perspective is based more on what I read, observe and am "taught" at conferences.
(Just to clarify, I'm not talking about kids throwing tantrums or being playful. I'm talking about those kids who run wild, interfere with others and whose parents choose to ignore it.)
Well said.
I think if a privately owned business chooses to create a policy like this, it's their business to run. It's their bottom-line they're focusing on, and the results will show one way or another if it was an appropriate decision. As long as patrons continue to speak with their wallets (Xtina utilizing Alamo DH for example,) it is up to the businesses to meet their clientele's preferences.
Ditto AJL. I can deal with kids in airplanes, stores, restaurants, etc. I have only had two restaurant experiences where a child's bad behavior really stood out, but that was because the parents were doing NOTHING to help.
Movie theaters are where I draw the line because it's necessary to have a quiet environment to enjoy a film. And I get more and more angry about this because it's so expensive to go to the movies these days. Just last night, DH and I went to a 10 p.m. showing of Harry Potter and it was absolutely ruined by some a-holes who chose to bring a screaming baby. The baby was cranky before the film even started. It was misery for everyone. I couldn't even tell you what happened in the movie.
I don't ever blame the children in this kind of scenario. I don't even blame the parents as long as they at least try to make it seem like they are doing something about the problem.
I once read an essay by a celebrity chef on the topic of getting kids used to eating adult foods from an early age. One thing that stood out to me was that his ironclad rule for taking kids to any restaurant is that you don't stay for more than 45 minutes. He said that parents who are lingering over coffee or dessert when their kids are getting bored and restless are practically asking for a breakdown of some sort.
FWIW, we have never had an issue with a child breaking things or misbehaving to the point of distraction in the five years that we have had a retail store. In fact, one of my favorite customers is a ten year old boy with a charmingly encyclopedic knowledge of the Beach Boys.
No one said something to them? I would have. I didn't pay $20+ for my husband and I to listen to a screaming baby--we could do that at home.
Yes, they were spoken to pretty immediately, but they ignored it. Then the mother spent a majority of the film walking the screaming baby up and down the stairs of the theater and going in and out. So it was like screaming baby with doppler effect so mama could try to watch some of the film. Management was notified and did nothing. Afterward, DH had a chat with management and they gave us free passes for next time. It's small consolation, though.
I think the rise in child-free zoning is partly reflective of the fact that kids aren't being taught how to behave appropriately in different settings. I see so many parents cater to their kids' every whim and tantrum, or simply ignore their disruptive behavior. Not only does it make those kids a pain to be around, its a disservice to the kids. They grow up thinking they're the center of the universe and that they never need to adapt to their surroundings.
We do take the girls to nice restaurants occasionally, but we make sure to go early, and I'm strict about how they behave in those settings.
Oh, and we always have a movie on the phone if they get bored.
LOL. We don't go often, but my kids have fun on the Strip. The M&M Factory, the fountains at Bellagio, the statues as Caesars, the Aquarium at Mandalay, Excaliber (or where the princesses live, according to Marisa), CircusCircus, etc. I wouldn't take them there at night, but during the day? Heck yeah. There's actually a ton to do here.
I haven't read the rest of the post yet (the LV stuff jumped out, since we live here), but I think the biggest problem is that parents today take their kids places they shouldn't be at at times they shouldn't be there. I wouldn't take my kids to Austin Land and Cattle at 7:30 on a Friday, but 5:00 on a Sunday? Sure.
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