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Success after IF
Yes I believe in spanking
I'll just put that out there. I'm sorry many of you find it offensive. I do NOT hit, punch or hurt my child in ANY way. I love her more than life itself and would gladly die for her a thousand times over. A small swat on the thigh to distract her or get her attention when she is freaking out is in my opinion less stressful than pinning her down - I have tried both and restraining her upsets her more than a sharp word or swat that "resets" her. Way to judge Mousey....many of you constantly complain about your biters and hitters who don't respond to any behavior modification and are so quick to judge how others discipline. There are practices used on this board that I believe are negative to children and I don't agree with but I don't tell you that you are terrible abusive parents. Both my husband and I believe in spanking and enforcing authority and we were raised in cultures that are about as far apart as you can get. Again - very sorry that my parenting philosophy is different on this issue but it is something that we both feel very strongly about with regards to discipline.
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Re: Yes I believe in spanking
I certainly disagree with your position either way (the behavior you described in your original post and the toned down description here), but I have to say that I take real issue with your characterization here. You say you are simply uttering a sharp word or delivering a swat to reset her, but your tone in the last post was far more aggressive - "I was so annoyed that she ruined our lunch and made sure she knew it by tone of voice and a swat on her thigh (for fighting the change)." That's more than a reset. I don't see how you could say anyone was unfairly judging you if they read that to say that you were truly mad at your daughter and you wanted to punish her. That is exactly how anyone would read that.
It's not just your belief in spanking that people reacted to. It is your active exhibition of your temper with a one year old that is at issue. If someone posted on here that she sternly made sure her biter knew how annoyed she was with her DC, you better believe people would take issue with it!
There is a difference between discipline differences and real anger management issues.
And honestly - Mousey? She is one of the biggest cheerleaders and most loving mothers on this board. I'd like to see you actually respond to her post. Maybe instead of simply saying that you believe in spanking, you spend a little time thinking about what it is to be a one year old and about how to more effectively make diaper changes while out and about (and all interactions with your child for that matter) more tolerable for all of you.
You stated in your last post that you hit out of anger because she ruined your lunch. That is not the same as a consequence for bad behavior.
I can not even form a complete sentence right now because I am dumbfounded by your nearsighted excuses. Your baby is not even a year old yet! You smacked her because she ruined your lunch. Really????
I agree with everything said here wholeheartedly.
I stay out of the debate, generally, but I really think that any spanking is a bad idea. However, i dont tend to share that with people who do use it as a method, because I am not likely to change their minds. So be it. But KME makes great points here
One problem with your logic...
YOUR DAUGHTER IS ONE YEAR OLD.
A swat on the butt on a child that can comprehend right from wrong and actions have concequences in a dangerous situation is completely different than smacking a not-even-one-year-old because she's upset at getting her diaper changed. God forbid you came in my house on a random afternoon when I have two kids completely p!ssed because I won't let them fling themselves face-first off the couch.
Combine your logic fail of that with chasing your daughter around to force feed her and spiking your infant daughter's food with sugar and you've solidified yourself as an having epically bad parenting skills.
Nearly all of my meals are "ruined." I wouldn't have it any other way.
Shame on you.
After 2 rounds of IVF & 2 rounds of FET, we were blessed with identical twin girls!
oh and for the record, as my temper flares here, you can tell yourself that you DO NOT HIT your child, but "swatting" our of anger = HITTING in the eyes of a child.
and the eyes of me, too. I am sorry. I dont want to hurt your feelings, but I think this post is out of line, and your attack of Mousy is unwarranted.
Have you looked at many discipline books? Because all I have read indicate that REDIRECTION, not DISCIPLINE is what is suggested for a one year old.
This.
I get that some people will swat as a form of discipline. Lord knows my parents did it. I get it. It's not for me but I get it. I bite my tongue when people choose to do it as a form of discipline but I don't get it when people do it out of frustration, anger or an inability to manage their own feelings and emotions. Hitting out of anger or frustration teaches kids to hit when they're angry and frustrated.
What I also don't get is why you feel like a 1 yr old behaving like a 1 yr old is in need of "discipline" at all. She's not EVEN 1 for God's sake. Right now she's just acting her age. You've got some major issues coming when she starts willfully defying you! And she will..... not because she's disciplined, obedient, not disciplined, not obedient, etc but because it's how little people explore their world, learn boundaries and develop a self identity. Please don't "swat" those natural tendencies of self development out of her out of your own frustration. There are other methods that you may want to explore and consider. Or ... maybe not. You seem quite happy defending your desire to hit her.
I think that if she'd exhibited this same behavior at home when you were not caught up in your own personal entertainment you probably wouldn't have and don't swat her. Am I right?
So how on earth is she supposed to understand what's going on?
You swat her when she's being inconvenient but the same behavior doesn't elicit a response in a different setting?
Pavlov would tell you that your methods will not end up eliciting the response you desire. You're not being consistent so the learning can't happen.
If you want to "discipline" wiggly diaper changes for a baby under 1 be sure to swat her every single time she moves during a change. Consistency is key with behavior modification of negative behaviors.
And.... good luck with that.
Total score: 6 pregnancies, 5 losses, 2 amazing blessings that I'm thankful for every single day.
Sliz - you posted here about screaming "SHUT UP!!" at your baby when she was six weeks old.
You've posted here about force feeding her.
You've posted here that you BELIEVE IN SPANKING - specifically it was about spanking to let a toddler know "she's a big girl now!" and so should use the potty and not have accidents (I think you were explaining that's what happened to you when you had accidens as a toddler. And people responded they thought that was terrible - and you got offended and said actually it was great. I'm paraphrasing, of course.)
I remember these things because they really stood out to me as extremely cringe worthy. And - not worth responding to. Because I know that any response to you that isn't what you want to hear falls on deaf ears. So why bother.
Now you're posting about smacking your not even one year old's leg because she fought you during a diaper change. She ruined your lunch and you "let her know it!" by your mean voice and your smack on her leg.
I know this will fall on deaf ears too. But I'll go ahead and tell you - nope. She didn't know that she "ruined your lunch." She only knew mommy was angry and scared her with her mean voice and then hit her and hurt her.
Your baby girl is so beautiful, and I am sure you love her very much. I hope you can reign in your anger and control issues -- and you have them aplenty -- soon. Everyone here is not wrong. And you - are not right.
Be kind to your beautiful baby. Don't hit her for fighting a diaper change - for being a NORMAL little baby girl. Get control of YOURSELF - don't worry about getting control of her.
"When it comes to sleeping, whatever your baby does is normal. If one thing has damaged parents enjoyment of their babies, it's rigid expectations about how and when the baby should sleep." ~ James McKenna, Ph.D., Mother Baby Behavioral Sleep Center, University of Notre Dame
After 2 rounds of IVF & 2 rounds of FET, we were blessed with identical twin girls!
I am not 100% offended by spanking. It is not how my husband and I will discipline, but if others feel that is best, that is their business.
But let me just tell you - I have two 8 month olds and a 2 year old, and they all squirm, try to roll over, try to grab my hair, kick their legs, etc. during a diaper change.
What on earth to you expect? They are in a vulnerable position like that, being held down against their will, and they have no understanding of why it is happening! Of course they squirm around!
If you loose your cool over something like this, Lord help you (and that sweet baby, most of all) when she is a toddler and really testing you.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I lurk from my phone and don't get to post too often, but I remember the posts that Lucy is referring to as well. Please take her and the others' advice. Your daughter is acting like a normal almost-1-year-old. It's just going to get "worse" as she explores her world and boundaries. Like another has said, just wait... You need to learn how to control your anger before she's acting like a normal toddler.
BFP with no treatment!
I think what concerns me the most is that your lunch is ruined by poop. I mean, it is poop. It happens. Can you not get up from lunch and poop yourself, wash your hands, and come back to finish your meal?
I know parenting can be stressful, and once they hit one and gain all kinds of skills that makes them independent life becomes one big interuption, and there will be many times a day when you want to go left and your child wants to go right, and it will be frustrating. Short of constantly spanking your child, it would benefit everyone in the house to find a new way to deal with things.
oops. I meant to quote this on my earlier reply
THIS. A THOUSAND TIMES, THIS.
Your baby is not the issue. YOU are. You incessantly post about her "neediness", can't be left alone, won't sleep, won't eat, etc. I think you need to take a long, hard look in the mirror. I'd be willing to bet 99% of the people on this board are shocked/dumbfounded by the things you post. I hope and pray you are able to resolve your issues before you do further damage to your beautiful child. I really do. Thank God children are resilient, because the damage to her has already begun.
Well said. And there is no mammal on this planet that responds better to negative reinforcement than positive reinforcement. You are a scientist - read the literature on animal behavior.
And ditto all pp that swatting in anger is different than spanking as discipline (disclaimer - we don't/don't plan to spank). You can't lose your temper and hit your child without her growing up afraid of you. And if you don't believe us that a 1-year-old cannot possibly learn not to thrash during a diaper change by swatting her, call your pediatrician and ask. Call a child development expert at the university. Call a family therapist.
This may be flammable, but you believe in spanking because you think it had a positive effect on your development. Please take a good look at what you are doing and feeling and re-evaluate that belief.
This is exactly what ran through my head. I'm not on these boards as much as others but I have to say some of your recent posts / responses, have stuck in my head. You really seem to have some anger management / control issues - with your daughter but also related to your general attitude and outlook. This post really reinforces all of that; both in how you phrase it but your approach to "disciplining" a one-year-old. For the sake of your daughter and your family, please take a step back and take an honest look at yourself and your parenting. Your daughter is a baby. She is not even one year old yet. She is not able to understand what she is doing and hardly tried to 'ruin your meal'. She was having her diaper changed - a very vulnerable amount for a little person. Part of being a parent is having some patience and understanding; it can be very hard, there is no doubt about that. Let me tell you, as the parent of a one-year-old, you're just beginning to experience some of the trials that will test you (one year olds are MUCH easier than 2 or 3 year olds) and you will have a VERY long road ahead of you if you cannot develop some healthy approaches toward your daughter.
I'm going to have to agree with pretty much all of the prior posters, but especially kme, LucyP and Kimarino. As my DH (and Kim) say, we haven't had a nice dinner in 2 years...and that's just part of life with little ones. Hell, most of my friends with little ones, especially toddlers, just don't go out to eat at all anymore because it's not worth the trouble. They put the little ones' needs ahead of their own.
To address the general parenting criticism and bringing up of some old posts here, I will say that I often identify with your anxiety and worries about your little one because we come from a similar place of having a prior late loss, and I don't think there is a correlation here or that it is/was necessary to bring that up in this discussion or to generally belittle your parenting based on those unrelated issues. But I do think that on the spanking issue specifically, in the situation you described, you need to consider the responses to this post and recognize that there's a difference between (A) spanking to teach a (developmentally ready - not at 1 year old) child consequences of their actions when those actions are clearly misbehavior and (B) spanking to vent or show your child that you're angry with her for acting in a way that is normal for any child of that age, particularly at an age when there's no way she will comprehend the correlation.
I know we are all trying to be the best parents we can and to make the best decisions we can for our kids, so I apologize if these responses come off harshly but one of the great things about these boards is the ability to get a different perspective and recognize when we may be going astray. I will absolutely admit that I've learned and/or rethought many of my parenting strategies from this board.
You were "annoyed" that she "ruined" your lunch, by pooping and being squirmy? Wait until she's running around the house half naked with a poopy diaper, yelling no and laughing hysterically at you as the poop flies everywhere. Take a step back, you are making you child seem like she's an inconvenience.
I HATE HATE HATE it with a venomous passion when someone said/says this to me.
However... I have never seen a more appropriate use of it.
Her behavior right now is a cake walk by comparison to what's to come.
Go ahead and stand by your decision to hit her out of anger and frustration.
But don't be the least bit surprised when she hits you and is known for hitting other kids.
You've mentioned before that you have anxiety issues.
If you learn better coping skills you can pass them down to her.
Don't you want better for your daughter? When she's trying to learn to write her name and gets frustrated do you want her to throw or break the pencil or do you want her to take a deep breath and recollect her self to go on and do a great job?
Just consider it. It doesn't mean that your parents were wrong or awful or that you were wrong or awful. It just means that you want to do what's best for her long term and are willing to look at a whole board full of women pointing these things out to you as a wake up call.
Total score: 6 pregnancies, 5 losses, 2 amazing blessings that I'm thankful for every single day.
The first post made me boiling mad. . .
This one just makes me sad.
You don't listen to a thing we say. Everything falls on deaf ears - unless it's exactly what you want to hear. All signs suggest that you have *never* taken any advice given here and used it to step back, reevaluate, learn, consider a change, or etc.
Why even ask? Why waste our time?
Not only do you not even consider advice given to you when specifically requested - you also clearly do not read the other posts on this board, or you'd realize that your sweet little girl is not the monster you describe. It sounds as if she acts as 99% of the children her age.
If you had come here out of love and concern, seeking advice on how to make diaper changes a more pleasant experience for all involved - you would have received a totally different response.
But you didn't.
You said that you got annoyed because a dirty diaper ruined your meal. And you used a stern voice and a smack to let your baby girl know that you didn't appreciate it.
So, so sad.
And that has nothing to do with whether or not I believe that spanking can be an appropriate form of discipline when used at an appropriate age and when used in an appropriate manner.
What you described was *not* spanking.
You were angry. It was after the fact. And she's not old enough to understand.
PLEASE take some of the comments offered tonight to heart and just entertain for a second the thought that maybe not everything is your daughter's fault and maybe - just maybe! - you have some work to do on yourself, too. None of us are perfect mothers; we must be constantly open to improving.
This. And that's all I got to say about that one.
Believing in spanking and swatting your 1 year old, AFTER the fact at lunch are polar oppsites. If you are going to back up spanking, you better learn the psychology behind it, you don't give ANY form of dicipline after the fact, what good is that? You must correct the behavior right away.
Both DH and I are not against spanking, but we would never use it as a primary way to treach DD anything, and I sure as heck would not spank my 19 month old.
You need to learn what is normal for a "toddler" and you best learn that this is the tip of the ice berg. DD is 19 months and is all over the place, she hates to have her diaper changed, she hates to sit in the stroller or the high chair. You know what- you DEAL WITH IT! We always have our portable DVD player, we eat out at loud child friendly places, we brings toys, we get DD"s food the minute we sit down. We eat quickly, the minute the food comes we ask for the check. We have learned to have fun in different ways- we get ice cream and go play at the park- you have a child you best to learn to deal with how to get along in life with them.
What bothers me the most about your post below, was the comment that your child "ruined" your lunch. If you have to eat your precious lunch in peace then hire a sitter and go out, believe me your child would much rather be home with a sitter then with a parent who feels they are a burden.
All of us here walked through fire and back to have our kids, and the way that you are treating your child makes me sick.
Do you have accountability for your poor choices? Yes. You also have the power, knowledge (because if you were stupid you wouldn't be subconciously screaming out for help, direction, advice, etc), and ability to make a different life for your child than you had. Show her that parents, caregivers, and adults are compassionate people who she can turn to to learn from, discover the world with, and TRUST. You are breaking the bonds of trust by physically violating your child. Fear is not a healthy building block for your relationship with your daughter. No one would ever say "I love that my kid is scared of me" but that's what you're building regardless if you realize it or not.
I grew up in a VERY abusive household (much more than what you're describing) and what I "learned" was that adults are not to be trusted, I had to walk on eggshells, I had to be fearful of being punished (instead of learning the appropriate ways to behave it was always about appeasing and satisfying whatever emotion the adults had around me), etc. Subsequently, I was an ACE student, teachers LOVED me, I "pleased" everyone but I grew up so scared, lacking any sort of esteem because the very first people who were supposed to love me violated that by including violence, "mean voices", and "showing me how bad I was".
Give your daughter (and you) the gift of a sane, safe, calm, COLLECTED (mentally, emotionally, physically, temper) life. Get yourself into a counselor and be 150% honest. Give yourself the gift of being vulnerable with someone who can help you rebuild your broken toolbox.
I'll be praying for peace for you, for strength and for the ability to take in the comments above and mine as truly coming from a place of understanding that people who are hurting often hurt other people because they don't know how else to function.
HUGS MAMA! This isn't easy for anyone and unfortunately, your "broken toolbox" is making it 100000000 times harder for you. Please seek assistance ASAP without excuse!
This. Please get some help dealing with your frusteration. If she thinks she is going to be hit or yelled at after every change she is really going to resist you.
Tip: Find a toy, necklace, or something to distract her that you use only during diaper changes. Get her involved, let her hand you the wipes for example. This works for us. I agree, do the best you can to clean her up and let the rest go until you can get to a place where you are not rushed.
This, this, this. The whole thing.
Jumping in here...regardless of whether you are pro spanking or not OP you tend to always post here indicating that you have issue after issue with your DD. She does not sleep well/but you cannot break her from co-sleeping/do not want to break the co-sleeping, she does not eat well, she is too curious (touching things she should not), you admittedly swatted her in anger, etc. etc.
However, you don't really seem to take the advice posted here. We will always tell you what we think even if you don't like the response. If you really want advice then you have to listen to what people are telling you.
Well, I don't really have anything else to add. I agree with everything that the previous posters said. Even if you are not spanking adverse, there are probably "correct" times and situations to use it in....and I'm guessing that not liking a diaper change isn't one of those.
Anyways...I hope that you at least take the time to read all of these responses and think about them. And talking to someone about your anxiety issues certainly might be a thing to improve ALL of your quality of lives
And I'd read a few books on some alternate discipline methods that you can use to correct the non-spanking worthy offenses.
Omg, for real.
Pretty much every meal is "ruined"
My sleep is "ruined"
clothes are "ruined"
Quiet car rides are "ruined"
But, damn.... I count my blessings every day that running a simple errand takes 10x longer now.
I am not trying to gang up here, but I really can't get behind any of your logic. A swat so that she knew she ruined your lunch- how in the world do you think that a one year old can process that?
You do realize that what you have done here is set it up so that you are showing her that is it is okay to hit when you don't get what you want ( an enjoyable lunch out)?
better a few "ruined" lunches than a ruined child.
i'm not against spanking- but you should not be spanking your daughter. period. she is too young & it is not benefiting her in any way. end of story.
as it has already been said, you really need to take a step back & re-think things.
if you're already this annoyed with your child, who isn't even 1, i'm really worried about how you're going to handle the next few years. dear God.
we've all been there- no one is perfect. but try & accept the advice given & work on helping yourself.
look at the birds | bless this food
I agree with everyone on here and piggybacking off of smilee I have a good friend who had the same mindset as you. She started pinching and swatting her son at an early age. He is going to be three soon and not only does spanking have zero effect on him but he is also a bully. It sucks that I don't want him around my son but the last time he was over he kept stealing Jax's toys and then slamming them on the ground when we told him to stop stealing the toys. The last time he did it that night it was so close to hitting Jax's head that I turned and calmly told his mom that if he hurts my child there are going to be problems. Her response-well when Jax is old enough he can hit my kid and then mine will probably stop. Right, your kid is turning into a bully and thinks hitting is ok and your solution is for other kids to hit him?
Also there is a difference between the occasional spanking and abuse. Spanking for discipline reasons when they are older is fine if done correctly. Spanking because you are annoyed and after the fact is abuse. Plain and simple. You really do need help. Just because you think that you and your husband turned out fine doesn't mean your daughter will. My husband was abused and the scars it leaves will last forever. I look at his mom to this day and am still disgusted at what she let go on in her house.
Daycare is SO exhausting!
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This.
I am against spanking for many reasons, but a big one is that the literature on child development (and, on an broader level, animal behavior, as dusk said) says that it's not as effective as positive reinforcement. I don't know where you are getting your beliefs that she'll "learn" at one-year-old if you punish her. She does not understand that intention - she understands that her mom, her protector, the person she loves and depends on most in the world, has just struck her out of anger.
My mantra for this age is "behavior communicates." Whatever DD is doing, whether it's smiling or singing, or screaming and hitting, she's communicating something to me in the only way she knows how. It's my job as her parent to listen and to support her and help her learn how to get her needs met in the most appropriate way. And, more importantly, to teach her love and kindness.
TTC since 11/05...ectopic pg 4/08...early m/c 6/09...BFP 10/5/09!
Nora B...June 15, 2010...8lbs, 8oz...Med-free birth!
TTC #2 since 7/11...cycle #3 of Clomid + IUI = BFP
Malcolm...September 21, 2012...8lbs, 6oz...Another med-free birth!
I am not going to bash you about what your did but I will say from all your post recently it sounds to me like maybe you are overwhelmed?!?!
I get the entire new mom being nervous and overtired but it always seems like there is an issue with Asha. I personally find when I am stressed out my kids sense it and that is when they act out more or are more needy!
Just take a step back when you get frustrated and think all you went through to have that sweet beautiful little girl and remind yourself that she only 1! It will get better! Trust me, I have days where I want to pull my hair out because someone is up to now good (or two of them or hell even all three of them) but it gets better.
Sliz,
I do not doubt that you love Asha a thousand times over. However, I've been reading your posts regarding Asha for close to a year now and in an overwhelming majority of your posts, you come off as either crazy paranoid, overwhelmed, or and in the last case downright irrational and mean. I never respond to your posts because I honestly never know what to say. This time the only thing I think needs to be said is that I really think that you and Asha would benefit greatly if you would seek some counseling.