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Toddlers: 12 - 24 Months
acia
member
So DH isn't cheating - he's just a big fat liar. (It's a long one!)
acia
member
I wrote this post last week about being worried about DH cheating on me. (Basically I came across an email that was making plans to have dinner/drinks with another woman, but he told me he was out with people from work.)
Before accusing DH of anything, I wanted to see if there was any other evidence of him cheating, so for the last week or so I had been paying attention to his whereabouts, and looking at his text messages if I had a chance. I noticed a few more texts between him and this girl, making plans for various coffee dates, etc., but then the texts would mysteriously disappear a few hours later. He was obviously deleting them, which was the part that made me suspicious since it's not like the texts themselves were sexy or anything.
So I confronted DH about this, and (after getting mad at me for being so nosy), he apologized and said that yes, he had been spending time with this girl, dinners and drinks and lunches and coffee - once or twice a week or so. He's not attracted to her at all - they're just friends - but he didn't want to tell me about it and had been hiding it from me (by deleting texts and emails, lying about who he was with, where he was, etc.) because he was trying to avoid me "giving him sh!t" for spending time with this girl, since I had expressed to him in the past that I was uncomfortable with it and it made me nervous. To be honest, since arriving here in Australia I had come to terms with him spending time with her (openly), because she was one of the only people he knew, and I really didn't think he would ever cheat on me. But he said he didn't realize that I was okay with it so was hiding it to avoid an argument with me. We've been going through a rough patch in our marriage lately (to say the least), so he didn't want to rock the boat even more.
He also said that I need to take responsibility and apologize for my actions as well, since it was me hassling him over spending time with her that prompted him to lie in the first place. He realizes it was dumb to lie in this situation, but he felt that he had no other choice. I explained to him that he could have either kept talking to me about it, or he could have stopped seeing her. If he's at the point where the only choice is to lie, our relationship is probably beyond repair.
(Might be time for an intermission. Go grab yourself a popcorn and soda.)
So on top of all this, I also brought up the fact that it seems that lying comes too easily to him, and he said that yes, he does lie about a lot of stuff, regularly. Not "big things," but things that could potentially cause conflict or result in me being mad at things he doesn't think are justified. For instance, I don't like that he spends so much time on Fantasy Football during football season, because it takes time away from the family, housework, etc., and yes, I do nag him about it. So last year he decided to lie to me about it and whenever I'd ask him what he was doing on the computer, he'd lie and tell me he was working on a project for work or something when he was actually making fantasy trades. He realizes it was stupid but again says that it was me who "drove him" to lie.
By the end of the talk, he agreed to be open with me about everything from now on, if I would agree to nag him less about things like this. And that's all fine and good, but I'm finding it hard to trust him! I mean, if he's lied so much in the past, what's to stop him from continuing to lie? I'm so hurt, and still reeling from the realization that he's been so dishonest with me. DH thinks it's ridiculous for me to be so upset and for my trust for him to be on the line, and says I'm "making this into something it isn't." And maybe he's right, but I can't help how I feel.
So now I'm stuck. DH isn't cheating - super! But I HATE the fact that he lies so easily, even if it's about "small stuff." I really value honesty in the relationship, and though I'm not perfect, I try really hard to be open and honest with DH about big and small things.
Anyone else caught DH in lies? Were you able to get over it? How do you start to rebuild the trust? Or am I completely overreacting by having trouble trusting him?
This discussion has been closed.
Re: So DH isn't cheating - he's just a big fat liar. (It's a long one!)
I'm sorry you're going through this--but just a little FYI from experience. It's a classic liar behavior to turn it around on you "I HAVE to lie because if I don't you get mad at me. This is YOUR fault."
If you let him get away with that he's going to continue to lie to you for a very long time.
He knows you'll feel bad if he blames you for being nosy and a nag and you will feel bad so it lets him off the hook a bit.
Not cool. I didn't respond last week but I do think the two of you could use a bit more communication with a therapist.
My DH and I see one once a month or so and it's been amazing. We didn't even have any 'big" problems. Just a lot of stress in our lives which got in the way of us being happy and able to enjoy one another.
I do hope this makes you feel a little better--now that he's coming at least partially clean.
Make a pregnancy ticker
I know what you're saying, but I really don't think he's cheating. We've spent time with this girl and her boyfriend as a couple, he insists I become friends with her, and physically I really don't think she's his type.... Maybe I'm being naive, but I really think he'd just end the marriage rather than fooling around behind my back.
He's a very defensive person, which is one of the things we've talked about in therapy (we don't go anymore but we've gone in the past), so his defensiveness to this accusation wasn't exactly unexpected.... It's really the lying about it all that is eating away at me, and being told I have to shoulder some of the blame doesn't sit well either.
Ok, let's suppose that the only issue you're dealing with for the moment is his lying. If you can't trust him, what's the point? You'll never know where he is, what he's doing, where the money is going, who he has around your LO, what his intentions are for the future, etc, etc, etc. Even if he's not cheating now, after all these lies, how would you know if he was down the road?
I just don't think I could pick up and move on w/o some sort of intervening event. As many PPs (this and your OP) have said, I think at the very least you need counseling, and in an ideal world that would be counseling for you individually and for the two of you together. The way he's treating you is NOT ok, and YOU tell people how to treat you based on what sort of behavior you tolerate. Individual counseling would help you determine how to move forward and insist on being treated better.
Good luck and lots of hugs! Hope things go better very soon.
Make a pregnancy ticker
We went through something similar and I'm going to be honest it took a long time to repair, and I'm not sure our relationship is where it was.
For me the issues weren't just about trust they were also about me being able to respect my husband and losing interest in him.
My husband was very similar in that he would lie about minor stuff to avoid conflict. This lead to me to lose respect for him because either he was too scared of me to man up and speak his mind about whatever the issue is...."um you need to grow a pair" or he was too lazy to enter into a grown up conversation/debate/discussion..."um well that's just plain unattractive."
I basically said all of this to him as well, because I needed him to know how his lying reflected on him. When he said, "you drove me to it by getting mad.", I told him to get a backbone. That him acting like some naughty kid sneaking around, lying to his mother made me never want to have sex with him again.
I lost interest in him, in that I got tired of trying to work out what was a lie, so I stopped listening. I just filtered him out. This was really hard to repair because I got out of the habit of caring about him and what he had to say.
We did get through it however. As far as I'm aware he doesn't lie (he was a crap liar anyway, so I always knew, but it was the ease with which he lied, like it was a default setting rather than acting like an adult that annoyed me no end), and if he does tell the odd minor lie, I call him on it and he fesses up to it immediately, rather than continuing with the lie and trying to make me feel like I'm going crazy for doubting what he is saying...which means we're able to laugh and joke about it.
For my part I learned to tone down my aggression when I was angry. I didn't stop expressing my feelings or letting him know how I was feeling, but I learnt to express myself in a way that was less hostile and made it easier for him to enter into a discussion.
I guess he in turn learnt that it's ok to have an argument, that having a conflict isn't the end of the world, rather than simply avoiding it.
We did counselling. I did a lot of crying, and contemplation of divorce. I asked him questions like, "why should I trust you over a big issue like, are you cheating, should I ever doubt you when I can't trust you over little stuff.?" and "What would you do, if it was me consistently lying to you?"
So yeah we got through it, and it was worth it, but it was hard work and there were many times when I thought about walking away because I didn't want to look down the barrel of 50 years with a man I couldn't trust.
Good luck.
Elizabeth 5yrs old Jane 3yrs old
Whether he's cheating, thinking about cheating or just lying to you about a bunch of stuff, none of it is OK. I'd hold his feet to the fire. Don't let him continue to turn this around on you.
Let me just say that I have 2 ex-husbands, both cheaters. Both wanted me to be "friends" with the random piece of tail they wanted to stick it to later. If I was friends with these women then I would have an easier sense of peace when ex-DH would say "I'm talking to (female I met)." Don't buy into that ***. Also, my ex's were wonderful at flipping the script and making me feel bad because they cheated. It was ALWAYS my fault that I busted them and if I hadn't been complaining about whatever then they wouldn't have needed to go vent/blow off steam/get some tail somewhere else.
I will agree with your statement in your first paragraph here. You are being naive. He's laying the ground work to get your permission to cheat. He's already blamed all of his actions on you and you bought it. Now anytime he is out with her, since he's already admitted it to you and you told him it was ok (bad move on your part), now he will think of that as permission from you to go sneak off. You want it stopped? Stand your ground and stop letting him make you feel bad for the *** he is doing.
Oh and to think that he'd just end the marriage instead of cheating? Don't buy that either. He doesn't want the marriage to end. If it ends then he has no one to rely on. With you at home and the girl on the side he has the best of both worlds. Someone who won't leave him and then the other girl who is new to him so that's intriguing.
I know a cheater when I see/read about one. I don't buy your DH's bullshit for a minute. It's been very well rehearsed and he knows how to make you feel guilty to where you will bend to whatever he wants. The difference will come in when you're tired of listening to it. The reason he is defensive is because he knows deep down you're on to him and he's trying to feed you plausible excuses so you'll back off and when you don't then he blames it on you.
I have to agree with everyone who says he is at least thinking about cheating. I had several long term relationships with cheaters before I met my husband, and they ALL start by lying. Is he picking fights/putting you down a lot lately (espec. digs about you being an inadequate wife)? Is he taking more interests in his appearance than usual? Spending more time one the phone/computer? Because you already said in your post that he has been lying about where he is and who he is with. Those are all red flags. They can all mean that your husband is either cheating or thinking seriously about it.
And don't assume that he would rather divorce you than cheat, that is what an honest person would do, and he clearly is not honest. The only lies that are ever ok in a relationship are the white type ("no, that doesn't make your butt look big," or "no honey, I don't think those black socks look weird with your shorts"). All the others will come out anyway and erode trust, they are not worth it.
It is not an overreaction for you to feel like you can't trust him, if your gut says you can't, then it is probably right. It won't work to let this go, it will only get worse, something (probably couples counseling) will have to change. You don't really want to continue on the way you are, do you? I think you guys need counseling, and everyone who said you need solo counseling is right too, because I think you need to figure out why you allow him to treat you like that. Everyone deserves basic respect and honesty from their partner. You do too. His bad behavior is not your fault, and you wouldn't be 'nagging' anyway if he was treating you right.
I agree with the PP's. He's totally cheating on you. I'd bet a lot of money on it.
I was repeatedly cheated on by my ex husband, and your husband has ALL the signs.
Out of the 2 women my husband cheated on me with that I actually saw (there were several more) , neither were his "type" either. It's not about that. It's about the attention and the stupid puppy dog feelings.
If he wants to stay with you, he needs to stop hanging out with her NOW. It doesn't matter if he really is cheating or not. IT. DOESN'T. MATTER. He has already crossed the line by lying to you.
It wouldn't matter how pure my intentions were-- if my husband asked me to stop hanging out with a male coworker, I would in about 3.4 seconds. Why? Because I love my husband and value him more than I do any friends.
Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.
ha, this.
I have to agree! He might not be having a sexual affair yet, but it definitely sounds like an emotional affair in the very least. It is definitely not as innocent as it seems. If he could lie to you for so long about her, then don't be surprised that he can lie to your face about it. The fact that he is covering his tracks (deleting texts,etc) is not a good sign. If you are not ready to believe the fact that this is not an innocent relationship, hire a private detective to get yourself some proof.
Honestly in my opinion there is no reason why DH should be close friends with a girl and constantly going to lunch, etc with her alone. Regardless if he cheated or not, regardless if he's interested in her or not it's just leaving it open for bad things to happen.
He is bonding with another female instead of you and he is playing a dangerous game, whether he'll admitt it or not. And i think he knows it since he's trying to turn it around on you.
Ditto everyone else that he's cheating.
My DH made friends with a female coworker from his job that he recently left. This was completely fine with me. However, when he got together with her, it was him inviting her over with her DH and her DS so our kids could play together.
A male who isnt cheating doesnt go out alone with a woman, just the 2 of them, for dinner and drinks.
The SAME EXACT THING happened to me with my ex. I could have written your post word for word. He had a "friend" he spent a lot of time with secretly, I confronted him about it and he wasnt cheating, but he had to hide things from me to avoid a fight, etc. I found out after the fact he cheated. A lot. Your DH's behavior is classic "cheater" behavior.
This exactly. CLASSIC Manipulative behavior.
There are red flags all over this post and I really hope you see them. You have every single right to be upset that he lies to you about so much, so easily. It IS a big thing and SHOULD be made a big deal. Do not allow him to minimize this. Trust in a marriage is a huge thing and he's violated that on numerous occasions.
I'm still not 100% sure he's NOT cheating on you...I mean, you believe him because he says so? What if he's just lying again to get off the hook?
I think marriage counceling is a GREAT idea and i hope it works out for both of you, but please, stand up for yourself here and don't allow him to make this out to be YOUR problem. It's his and he needs to fix it.
This sounds so shady to me. But let's say he's not cheating on you. The mere fact that he was sneaking behind your back to see someone he didn't think you were comfortable with him seeing sends up a million red flags. I can't fathom my husband or I doing something that we knew (or even thought) would upset the other person. YOU should be most important to him--not his friendship with this woman.
And I'm not sure I buy that you weren't okay with him hanging out with her before, but now that you've moved, you're suddenly fine with it. Given all of the red flags surrounding this situation, I most certainly wouldn't be.
I agree with everyone else. Given what we know from your post, he's cheating. Perhaps they haven't consummated it with sex yet, but it's on its way.
Excuses, excuses. You're the reason he can't be open about it? bull...
If he values your marriage, he will stop seeing her, texting her, emailing her, etc. Plain and simple. No friend is worth such angst in a marriage. Sadly, I don't see him doing this. And sadly, as you said he's lied and manipulated you about so many other things that you really can't trust him even if he says he'll do it.
Please find a counselor. Stop having sex with him and get tested. I'm sorry.
Our family blog
Wow. Just Wow. I'm shocked at all of the people who responded that he is cheating based off of one side of a story. Ughh.
Is it possible that he is cheating? Yes.
Is it possible that he is lying because he is afraid of your reactions, just like he said? YES!!!!!!!!
Does it make lying acceptable? No, but you have a responsibility to your marriage, as does he, to find a way to fix this so that he does not feel like he cannot be honest with you and you don't feel like he is lying or cheating.
I'd say take a good hard look at your marriage. Are you happy? Is it worth it to you to put the effort in, take some responsibility in the matter and see a marriage counselor who can help fix things? Yes? Then get to it, because you have work to do. Marriage is hard work, but, in my opinion, worth it!!!
Definitely not bad advice to think about whether she truly believes him. (Which she said she did and does). It bothers me. I get it, you were burned. I've been burned too. It doesn't mean that your situation (not you, in general...) is the same as hers. Bad advice or bitterness from your situation could ruin a marriage. You can be empathetic without projecting your situation on someone else.
It sounds to me like he is married to you AND dating her. They may not have a sexual relationship, but it doesn't mean they won't down the line. It sounds like he is just testing the waters and seeing what it amounts to before he gets rid of what he has with you. The fact that you don't think he would be physically attracted to her and the fact that she has a BF really don't mean much. I hate to be blunt and I hope I am wrong, but if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then it's prob a duck.
Guys are not that clever when it comes to these types of things. You are giving him too much credit. Of course, he is going to say what he did (that he knew you would get mad without needing to and, blah, blah, blah...). That's what anyone would say.
I am not saying dump him, but def keep your guard up. PP are right. No husband I know goes out several times for drinks, meals, etc. for someone who is not their wife. Once? Sure. Not several.
Go Phils!!
Not disagreeing with you. Never did.
The lying is a hard thing to get over. I agree with others that you both need to go to counseling. The communication needs to be worked on. As far as him cheating on you...I don't know your husband so I can't say he definantly is. What I can say is that it sounds shady and exactly like my situation with my ex. just because she isn't his type, you guys have gone out together, and she has a boyfriend...none of that really matters.
If she is willing to have and affair with a man she knows is married...she is probablly willing to cheat on her boyfriend.
NOT saying that is what is happening but just a diffrent point of view. Good Luck and please get to counseling ASAP!