- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
2nd Trimester
b.heather
member
Rethinking SIDS - many deaths no longer a mystery
b.heather
member
Interesting article on current thinking related to SIDS. (Heard on NPR yesterday)
https://www.npr.org/2011/07/15/137859024/rethinking-sids-many-deaths-no-longer-a-mystery
TLDR: Vast majority of SIDS deaths are believed to be caused by unsafe sleep environments (e.g. babies cosleeping, sleeping on their stomach, sleeping in a crib with a blanket or soft bedding) and are not SIDS at all but accidental suffocation.
Warning
No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Rethinking SIDS - many deaths no longer a mystery
Ugh, yesterday the lady at the drycleaners told me about her friend of a friend whose 2 mo old died from SIDS, and then they took her older daughter away to foster care while they investigated it. I don't know why you would tell a pregnant woman such a thing, but I did want to ask questions abouut the baby's sleeping environment.
I wonder if these babies' death certificates say SIDS or asphyxiation.
Really, any newborn doesn't have the ability to move from anything. You stick them in the middle of their crib, that is where you will find them when you go back whether swaddled or not.
I was a 911 operator for 7 years and took many SIDS related calls. The common factor in all those calls is co-sleeping of some sort .. in bed or on the couch. Mom's being so tired they fell asleep and either roll on top of their babies or the baby slips and falls between them and the couch or between two pillows, etc. It's the reason I don't co-sleep. I know lots of people do but for me it's not an option. I've had two babies and know how easy it is to fall asleep by accident while feeding during the middle of the night .. or how desperate you are for sleep that you'll do anything .. it's scary because it could happen to anybody no matter how careful you are.
The few times I pulled DS into bed with us I could not sleep at all. IDK how parents who co-sleep sleep themselves! Your only options aren't co-cleep or send the baby to the nursery in the hospital though. I sent DS to the nursery one of the 3 nights we were in the hospital. I got the least amount of sleep that night between the doctors coming in to check and the nurses bringing DS in and then having to wait for them to come and get him to take him back...
I slept much better when we just kept him in the bassinet in the room. I think he slept better that way too!
DS was a tummy sleeper. He napped on his tummy from the age of 2w, and slept in his crib on his tummy starting around 3mo.
This may be flammable, but I also think that sometimes infant deaths are more directly, although still accidentally, caused by parents (shaking, holding hand or soemthing else over the face, etc) and that it is sometimes listed as a SIDS death just so the family doesn't have to experience any more trauma than they already have.
Yes I realize newborns aren't going to be rolling around or moving much at all, but if they are able to move all their limbs they do have the ability to move their face just the slightest amount, which can make a huge difference if they need to breathe!
I personally don't think I'll be co-sleeping either, but from a lot of the research I've done, it seems to have the same bad rap as home birthing still does is some circles, that's the only point I was making. Yes, if you are not taking every precaution it can be unsafe, but like home birth- it generally is very safe if done with the proper guidance.
Sadly, that wouldn't surprise me at all- that's the first red-flag that went off for me in that article, since they were talking about a specific area of Detroit, I couldn't help but think that lack of education, poverty, etc has a definite play in the situation.
Just and FYI....you don't have to be "hopped up on pain meds" to accidentally fall asleep with your child in your bed...
Really? I'm sorry but this was offensive to me. Basically implying that this accidental suffocation death was because the mother chose pain medication during labor/delivery.
I would never imply this of people who choose to do natural birth. All mothers are exhausted after giving birth and being in labor. Also, bringing home an infant for the first time is very overwhelming, and I just can't believe you would imply that it was probably pain medication that made her tired. Really? Maybe it's the newborn and all the work she did getting them into this world that is exhausting.
Sleeping with your baby in bed with you is not safe, and there is no "correct" way to do it. Just ask any pediatrician.
Are you in BC? I believe that woman sued the hospital. What had happened is she had been left alone for a very long period of time and was told to breastfeed her baby. She was so exhausted from labor and the drugs that she passed out and the baby was smothered.
wow, that is just a TOTALLY false statement. it's not 100% unsafe, there are many, many babies that bed share every night and nothing happens to them. we bed shared til my son was 10m old. no sheets/blankets or pillows were allowed and we put our mattress on the ground so we weren't high up. our pedi also bed shared and was totally fine w/ our decision.
anything you do w/ a newborn carries some risk. driving in a car, using a crib bumper ...etc.... accidents happen. I respect every mothers choices for the most part, please dont' go around saying things like that w/out any first hand knowledge.
While a baby passing is tragic, whether it happens by accident, SIDS, or otherwise. Given today's technology, they're better able to determine what exactly happened so much better than they could even 15 years ago. We're also discovering that there is a LOT of overparanoia out there and recommendations being made for the masses based on a statistically insignificant population (drop-side cribs, etc)
To rip on an overly exhausted Mom who fell asleep, I would also mention this, one of the first symptoms of hypothyroid is that level of exhaustion whether there's a baby there or not. In the hospital, after a 36 hour L&D I know I had people stop by the hospital room and I was so out of it because not only did I NOT have enough pain meds, blood loss, I also had not had nearly enough rest or nutrition in 3+ days. And people wonder why some women get PPD. In many cases, mild PPD is best treated with nothing other than - - a FULL night's UNDISTURBED sleep!
I think the technology catching up to the problem is what is being seen. Now if the technology would catch up to the idea that maybe there was something to be said about Moms getting a week in the hospital after delivering a baby vaginally as it was 30+ years ago where Moms were given a chance to get over "the hump" that is that first week...
Exactly.
You should also do some research-many countries around the world bedshare and have an even lower infant mortality rate than we do! These are 3rd world countries and babies die LESS than babies die in our country.
Recently, Japan started promoting extended BF and bedsharing to their moms, and SIDS doesnt exist.
One of the main theories on SIDS is that it's apnea related, and when baby is sleeping snuggled next to their mother they mimic the mother's breathing habits so SIDS is not likely to occur.
Statistically, more babies die in their crib than they do in their parents bed. The problem why bedsharing is not promoted more in this country is because it's not safe for moms that are obese or under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Considering that makes up a good percentage of Americans, of course doctors arent going to recommend it.
This is because different countries classify infant death differently. Some countries don't classify infant death as infant death unless they're under the age of 3 months. This meaning a child in a different country could die from SIDS, bed sharing ect..and it would not be in their statistics. I am a Sociology major and getting my masters. I actually did a research project on infant mortality rates across the world and you would be surprised what they consider infant deaths. In all actuality the United States does have the lowest infant mortality rate if we were to use our classification for infant death across the world.
On a different note, more children die in their cribs because more children sleep in their cribs than with their parents in a bed. It is still statistically better for a child's safety to not sleep in bed with a parent. I believe in room sharing, I just think an infant needs their own space.
The person who posted this obviously has never birthed a child or breastfed. Breastfeeding releases hormones that make you really sleepy. At that on top of the whole experience of delivery and it is incredibly easy to fall asleep. With DS I nodded off many times and had to be woken up, and I was taking simple Ibuprofen which does not make you drowsy. At my hospital, they "strongly recommend" another person be in the room whenever the mother feeds.
Its instinct. When my DS was sleeping in bed with me, I moved my leg once and it tapped DH's legs. I immediately jumped up and checked on the baby. You become hyper aware when you're with a baby. While bedshaing deaths do happen with overtired parents, they are EXTREMELY rare. Having your baby sleep in a crib is just as risky, because babies die in crib deaths every year.
It is NOT dangerous if done properly and it benefits babies in a ton of ways. Here's some more links:
https://articles.cnn.com/1999-09-29/health/9909_29_bedsharing.wmd_1_infant-mattress-mothers?_s=PM:HEALTH
https://nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab/overlaying.html
https://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/01/11/co-sleeping-safety/
https://www.askdrsears.com/topics/sleep-problems/scientific-benefits-co-sleeping
The problem here is that while YOU may be aware of your child being there some parents are not. Not everyone is or becomes a light sleeper just because there is a baby in the bed. Yes maybe bed sharing is an okay option for you and your family but it is not for everyone. An example I can give personally is that I work part time in an Emergency Room and last summer we had a baby (2 weeks old) who was rushed in not breathing, the cause? His father put him in bed with him and by accident rolled over on top of the baby causing him to suffocate. Men tend to be heavier sleepers than women in general. So again, it may be safer for a baby to sleep in your bed than it is for other's to sleep in their parents beds. What is right for one is not right for all. You will find just as many statistics that tell you it is safe as studies that will show you it is not safe.
you're kidding right?? thanks for the insults, just b/c i bed shared does not make me lack common sense. like i said before, you'll choose to drive in a car w/ your baby i assume, that is a risk you are willing to take. it's "common sense" that car accidents are much more dangerous than bed sharing, yet millions of mother do it.
there is no way that my baby would fall out of bed and i would just keep on sleeping. like the PP said, it's instinct. I was very intune w/ what was going on w/ my son as he was next to us. trust me, i was aware every single time he moved or rolled over. most of the suffocations while sleeping happen w/ Dads , not moms, b/c they don't have the same instincts.
I agree with the above. I co-slept with both of my sons and have never gotten even close to rolling on them.
Do you fall off the bed every night? Why don't you? Do you roll over onto your DH every night? Why not? Because you are subconsciously aware of both where he is and where the edge of the bed is. Just like I know where my baby is.
And thanks to the magical powers of the iPad and the auto spell check, I go into her room AND check that she's STILL breathing. Lord help me
In my coworkers daycare last year, a baby died while sleeping in his crib. Should I assume that all people who put their kid to sleep in a crib are lacking common sense and doing something dangerous? Your anecdotal story about a baby being suffocated does not mean bedsharing=dangerous. It's equally as dangerous to put a baby to sleep in their crib. And even in the study I linked, it clearly stated if the parents were not safely bedsharing there was a huge risk to the baby. Who's to know if that child who suffocated was safely bedsharing?
Look, there's risks no matter where you put your kid to sleep at night. I get that bedsharing doesnt work for EVERY parent 100% of the time and if you read those studies it gave many instances where in certain situations, it is unsafe. In the vast majority of cases, it benefits the baby to bedshare for a number of different reasons. There are safe and unsafe ways to bedshare, just like there's safe and unsafe ways to put baby to sleep in a crib, or drive in a car. Dont say all bedsharing is unsafe just because it CAN be unsafe. It isnt always and can be very safe if done right.
Ummmmm.....no where did I state that bed sharing is 100% unsafe? You should read through that post a little better. I said it is not safe for EVERYONE. I think you're getting a little upset because you know there are dangers to bed sharing but just can't come to terms with that fact. Again more babies die in crib death because MORE BABIES ARE PUT IN CRIBS! If every single person on the planet bed shared you would see a lot more of those death. Sorry, but you are only hearing the things you want to hear.
This is really interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Read your OP: "I'm glad to see some intelligent posting on a subject that should be common sense. People ride in cars eveyday with no seatbelt and live but that doen't make it safe. I just hope that the bed sharing parents don't learn the hard way how dangerous it is. Their babies don't deserve that. The bottom line is that you aren't aware when you're asleep so how would you know if you rolled over on them? Or if they fell? Room sharing is completly different. If you want to be close, there are ways that don't endanger the baby's life"
As a bedsharer, your post was extremely offensive. I never doubted that bedsharing COULD be dangerous. But if you're doing it right, it is not. Then again, if I hadnt done the research I've done, I'd probably have your extremely ignorant view as well.
Do you know the most famous sids researcher in this country endorses bedsharing? Here's some more info for your reading pleasure: https://www.inhabitots.com/co-sleeping-safer-than-cribs-sids-researcher-james-mckenna/
Yes, more babies in AMERICA die in cribs because more sleep in them, but if you've read the research from sources outside of this country this just isnt true that more babies die by bedsharing than in a crib. Of course, Americans are going to be told it's "dangerous" though, because to safely bedshare, you cant be obese or under the influence of drugs/alcohol, and most people in this country are not.
There is just no way I believe this statement. I don't really care if parents chose to use a crib or bed share, but I do not believe they are, overall, equally safe.
Regarding bedsharing, if your mattress isn't as firm as a crib mattress, how can it be just as safe? I'm not trying to flame your choices, just trying to better understand.
If your mattress is as hard as the crib mattresses...well, I feel bad for your back.
Breastfeeding and pregnant!
The talk about cribs being dangerous is interesting. All the research I have ever seen indicates that a crib without blankets, pillows, or bumpers and with a firm, well-fitting mattress is 100% safe when a baby sleeps on their back.
I just don't see how the same type of statement could ever be made about a baby co-sleeping in bed with a parent because there are other variables present (e.g., mom and dad's pillows, blankets, softer mattress, other people, etc.). Can co-sleeping be done relatively safely? Yes. But how can it be as safe as the crib environment described above? There are just factors in bed-sharing that cannot be controlled in the same way that you can control the environment in a crib.
Could a baby die in a safe crib from a cause unrelated to the sleep environment? Of course. But co-sleeping couldn't prevent that same cause from occurring. I can see how co-sleeping might be more convenient for the parents but it just isn't safer.
PS: NOT saying co-sleeping parents are bad parents or judging them! As parents we all make choices for our children that make sense for our families. But I do think it is valuable for people to make informed decisions and to be aware of risks.
AGAIN, clarification of terms:
Co-sleeping: baby in the same room as you (in a bassinet, pack n play, cosleeper, swing, whatever)
Bed-sharing: baby in bed with you. (Dr. Sears calls it "sleep sharing" or "sharing sleep.")
Particularly in a discussion like this, the two terms are NOT interchangeable. Co-sleeping is endorsed by the AAP, as mentioned in that article. In fact, I think it said that CO-SLEEPING IS THE SAFEST SLEEPING ENVIRONMENT for your baby.
ETA: And nothing is 100% safe, not even your perfect crib environment, particularly if this baby is in his own room. If you want to put your baby in a crib, you do it in the safest way that you can. If you want to bedshare, you also have to do this safely.
And one of the reasons co-sleeping is safer is because you're more in tune with your baby, particularly if you're breastfeeding and baby is in within arm's reach of you. So an infant who stops breathing in a crib, maybe from undiagnosed asthma or something, is likely to make no noise and no one knows he stopped breathing. That same infant, nursing every two hours next to his mother, stops breathing, and her instincts are likely to alert her to his distress.
More info on how sleep sharing (although many are likely applicable to cosleeping) could prevent a death that crib sleeping would not prevent:
The physiological effects of sleep-sharing are finally being studied in sleep laboratories that are set up to mimic, as much as possible, the home bedroom. Over the past few years, nearly a million dollars of government research money has been devoted to sleep-sharing research. These studies have all been done on mothers and infants ranging from two to five months in age. Here are the preliminary findings based on mother-infant pairs studied in the sleep-sharing arrangement versus the solitary-sleeping arrangement (Elias 1986, McKenna 1993, Fleming 1994; Mosko 1994):
1. Sleep-sharing pairs showed more synchronous arousals than when sleeping separately. When one member of the pair stirred, coughed, or changed sleeping stages, the other member also changed, often without awakening.
2. Each member of the pair tended to often, but not always, be in the same stage of sleep for longer periods if they slept together.
3. Sleep-sharing babies spent less time in each cycle of deep sleep. Lest mothers worry they will get less deep sleep; preliminary studies showed that sleep-sharing mothers didn't get less total deep sleep.
4. Sleep-sharing infants aroused more often and spent more time breastfeeding than solitary sleepers, yet the sleep-sharing mothers did not report awakening more frequently.
5. Sleep-sharing infants tended to sleep more often on their backs or sides and less often on their tummies, a factor that could itself lower the SIDS risk.
6. A lot of mutual touch and interaction occurs between the sleep-sharers. What one does affects the nighttime behavior of the other.
Even though these studies are being conducted in sleep laboratories instead of the natural home environment, it's likely that within a few years enough mother-infant pairs will be studied to scientifically validate what insightful mothers have long known: something good and healthful occurs when mothers and babies share sleep.
https://www.askdrsears.com/topics/sleep-problems/co-sleeping-yes-no-sometimes
That's why it's important to know about how to bed share safely if it's something you are going to do as a family. EVERYthing I've read on bed sharing has said that the baby should be between mom and a bed rail, not between mom and dad because of exactly this. A breastfeeding mother is hyper aware of baby's movements. Dad is not.
~Working Mom~Breastfeeding Mom~Cloth Diapering Mom~BLW Mom~
Blog - No Longer on the DL ~ The Man Cave
Shawn and Larissa
LO #1 - Took 2 years and 2 IVFs ~ DX - severe MFI mild PCOS homozygous MTHFR (a1298c)
LO #2 - TTC 7 months, surprise spontaneous BFP!
Why the crib envirornment isnt 100% safe is a few reasons. Mainly, millions of cribs are recalled a year. Whos to say the crib you'll be using doesnt have some danger you dont know about? Even if the crib is safe, baby could roll on his/her belly and if it happens before baby can roll both ways easily, it could be dangerous. If the baby was sleeping next to his/her mom, the mother would be alerted if the child rolls. Another theory is that SIDS deaths are due to sleep apnea which means the baby stops breathing in their sleep. Babies sleeping in bed with their parents mimic their mother's breathing patterns. If your baby is in another room and something is wrong, how do you know? Sure, your monitor turns on if baby starts screaming, but other than that you just don't know what is going on. When your baby is right there, you know.
I dont think crib sleeping is very dangerous overall, as my youngest child always had because that where she's gotten the best rest. I just believe that bedsharing is equally as safe if done properly. I also think it's tough to imagine how instinctual a mother sleeping with her infant is if you've never done it yourself. Very, very few babies die a year in either scenario, so both are fairly low risk.
Here is the study of why cosleeping shouldnt be done (fyi-the studies against cosleeping are funded by no other than crib manufactorers. LOL). 60 babies a year out of 4 million live births is pretty darn low.
https://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml99/99175.html
And here's the dangers in crib sleeping:
https://174.129.132.250/safety/2008/02/nursery-deaths.html
Everything you wil do as a pregnant woman/parent carries risk. Every time you eat food, or drive your car, you're risking yours and your baby's health. You're actually much more likely to contract listeria during pregnancy than have your baby die from cosleeping, but I'm sure plenty of you are eating lunch meat. Many parents who cosleep believe the lifelong benefits to their children are worth the extremely miniscule risk that something would go wrong.
Agreed. Nothing is ever "failproof" even if done "properly". Plenty of folks are deep sleepers and add to that a few/several sleepless nights in the first few months and I think you are definitely taking your chances. This doesnt even take into account people who drink or are drug users. If you've had one too many than you can just go ahead and throw the "instinct" part of bed sharing right out the window
Just throwing this out there... We're planning on bed-sharing once the baby is 6 weeks old, if not before. I have yet to find anything that suggests that we are endangering our child in any way if we do it properly. He'll have a crib in the same room as well once he gets bigger and feeds less often during the night.
All this hysteria just makes me think of the whole alcohol while pregnant issue. Make the choice for you, quit flamming those who make a different choice, and mind your own damn business. Americans seem to be the most paranoid, controlling people in the entire world.
Just an FYI, SIDS is also a LISTED side effect on vaccine inserts...
If you look at the ages of most SIDS cases (not including those that were suffocated like a lot of you are speaking of in this thread), it's usually at 2, 4, 6 months...when babies are getting vaccines.
My cousin lost a baby at 4 months to "SIDS" after getting his 4 month vaccines. He was not co-sleeping, nor were there any other sleeping environment factors at play.
Even as a NB my DS could do at least a quarter roll and would often spin in the bassinet. He was never swaddled...hated it. So yes some NBs can move and don't always end up in the same position in a crib.
We safely co-slept most of the time (still do). Blankets down by waist level, DS liked sleeping on his side as a NB with my arm behind him (to keep him from rolling around).
Morgan's Birth Story: http://www.fullcirclemidwifery.com/2009/06/morgans-birth/
Chloe's Birth Story: http://www.fullcirclemidwifery.com/2012/04/chloes-birth/
You should read Dr. Sears, bc he does promote it. Way to show how un-educated you are.
Morgan's Birth Story: http://www.fullcirclemidwifery.com/2009/06/morgans-birth/
Chloe's Birth Story: http://www.fullcirclemidwifery.com/2012/04/chloes-birth/
This exactly...sorry I'm doing so many separate posts. If you look closely at the deaths where "bedsharing" is involved, almost all are either ppl that "accidently" fall asleep with baby...they don't "practice" bedsharing, but fall asleep on the sofa or chair with baby and know how to bedshare safely. Or the parents are under the "influence" of drugs or alcohol. I don't drink often and neither does DH, but we never bedshared after having a drink. It's just not safe.
And there were a couple times that I woke up and it seemed like DS had skipped a breath or two. Sleep apnea runs in my family. Most bedsharing mothers sleep lighter and are more in tune with their infants breathing. Whenever I woke and it seemed like he skipped a breath or two I was easily able to stir him and get him back to sleep well. I would never trust my baby in another room knowing that many in my family have breathing issues at night.
Morgan's Birth Story: http://www.fullcirclemidwifery.com/2009/06/morgans-birth/
Chloe's Birth Story: http://www.fullcirclemidwifery.com/2012/04/chloes-birth/