Woman that think you should not be paid for Maternity Leave

llcoolay · May 2011

I noticed on UO yesterday that there were several woman saying that they don't understand why woman should get paid during Maternity Leave. I am curious to hear more about this as I can't imagine this train of thought. Can someone please enlighten me on thier view? Are there really woman that believe this or was that just a joke?

Please discuss................

Shelleybell · May 2011

wow - i must have missed that yesterday. That is awful/

BethD76 · May 2011

I'm getting popcorn ready!

llcoolay · May 2011

Shelleybell:
wow - i must have missed that yesterday. That is awful/

Well if you look on yesterdays UO you will see that a few people commented on it. I for one thought they were crazy! I guess thats why it's an Unpopular Opinion? I sure hope its an UO.......

staticgirl77 · May 2011

BethD76:
I'm getting popcorn ready!

ha ha ha

WorkingMomofTwo · May 2011

BethD76:
I'm getting popcorn ready!

Scoot over and share that popcorn! I will grab the butter and salt!

acheyees19 · May 2011

This is bound to get interesting!

katbrian052108 · May 2011

WOW I missed that too!!!!!! My maternity leave is 6 or 8 weeks of sick time that I have earned over the years!!! Anything more than that I have to use my Personal and Vacation time in order to be paid. This is time that I have diligently been saving and letting accumulate over time! I can take up to six months without loosing my position!

llcoolay · May 2011

WorkingMomofTwo:

BethD76:
I'm getting popcorn ready!

Scoot over and share that popcorn! I will grab the butter and salt!

I find it quite entertaining too. However I dont think anyone wants to share their thoughts on this?

abrazz · May 2011

I didn't know, till I was pregnant with the last baby, that some companies will pay for maternity leave and it's separate from your accrued paid time off or sick time. I have never had a job where I didn't earn my time off so I don't know how that works. I think it would be awesome if I got paid and didn't have to use vacation time and sick time since I will only have enough saved up for 4 weeks. Maybe it's from a person that has plenty of sick time saved up, or whose SOs make a lot of money. DH isn't working so this is going to be hard on us when I miss a paycheck. Paid maternity leave would be awesome but in my field, it's unheard of.

Gummybear · May 2011

While I def. think this is an unpopular opinion, I guess I can see the argument. You aren't doing anything during that time that would merit compensation, ESPECIALLY when some women take the money and never come back to work without giving anyone at all any warning. The company is doing you a favor by a) continuing to pay you while you give them nothing in return b) holding your job, and relying on the honor code that you will actually return. That is why it is a benefit. A perk. No one is entitled to anything. It's not like Canada where part of your taxes are allocated for paying for the leave.

Not saying I agree, just trying to process the train of thought.

Epiphany27 · May 2011

I was the one who said it.

I will never understand getting paid when you aren't working. This includes vacation time.

Its not some popcorn worthy opinion. Take advantage of it if you have it, I don't care. I just think its weird to expect to get paid when you are not doing your job.

abrazz · May 2011

Epiphany27:

I was the one who said it.

I will never understand getting paid when you aren't working. This includes vacation time.

Its not some popcorn worthy opinion. Take advantage of it if you have it, I don't care. I just think its weird to expect to get paid when you are not doing your job.

You don't think you should have vacation time?

Five_letter · May 2011

Gummybear:
While I def. think this is an unpopular opinion, I guess I can see the argument. You aren't doing anything during that time that would merit compensation, ESPECIALLY when some women take the money and never come back to work without giving anyone at all any warning. The company is doing you a favor by a) continuing to pay you while you give them nothing in return b) holding your job, and relying on the honor code that you will actually return. That is why it is a benefit. A perk. No one is entitled to anything. It's not like Canada where part of your taxes are allocated for paying for the leave.

I completely agree with this.

jsong · May 2011

My maternity leave is through STD. I pay for that insurance out of my paycheck every month. That is why we have things like insurance. So, for all the years that I paid towards STD and never had to use it, I feel that I deserve the 50% that I get through STD.

WorkingMomofTwo · May 2011

In my company, you can either qualify for FMLA or STD depending on how long you've been here. If you fall under STD, then you don't get paid for the first week. It's nothing I expected from them, it's just what they do. I am able to take off 8 weeks with a C/S and that was not expected. I will be using my accumulated sick and vacation time before submitting STD. If my company didn't pay I wouldn't be mad or upset. I'm greatful that they do though. It's 60% of your gross pay where I work. That'll help keep the insurance paid for while I'm on ML.

Epiphany27 · May 2011

a_brasuell:
Epiphany27:

I was the one who said it.

I will never understand getting paid when you aren't working. This includes vacation time.

Its not some popcorn worthy opinion. Take advantage of it if you have it, I don't care. I just think its weird to expect to get paid when you are not doing your job.

You don't think you should have vacation time?

No, I don't. I don't feel like "earning" time off means you should earn getting paid time off. Yeah, if you want a week off to go on vacation, your employer should give you that. But expecting to get free money? That's dumb.

This all relates more to people who get upset about not getting enough paid vacation or maternity leave. If your employer offers it, that's great go ahead and take it.?

lissiealkie · May 2011

Gummybear:

While I def. think this is an unpopular opinion, I guess I can see the argument. You aren't doing anything during that time that would merit compensation, ESPECIALLY when some women take the money and never come back to work without giving anyone at all any warning. The company is doing you a favor by a) continuing to pay you while you give them nothing in return b) holding your job, and relying on the honor code that you will actually return. That is why it is a benefit. A perk. No one is entitled to anything. It's not like Canada where part of your taxes are allocated for paying for the leave.

Not saying I agree, just trying to process the train of thought.

I can see it why, as well. Its great when you get paid maternity, but I can't see getting all up in arms over not getting it. Some companies just don't offer it for valid reasons. My firm doesn't pay and my boss might be paying me a portion out of her own pocket. I'm graciously accepting because I need it, but if I don't get it, I completely understand why.

llcoolay · May 2011

Epiphany27:
a_brasuell:
Epiphany27:

I was the one who said it.

I will never understand getting paid when you aren't working. This includes vacation time.

Its not some popcorn worthy opinion. Take advantage of it if you have it, I don't care. I just think its weird to expect to get paid when you are not doing your job.

You don't think you should have vacation time?

No, I don't. I don't feel like "earning" time off means you should earn getting paid time off. Yeah, if you want a week off to go on vacation, your employer should give you that. But expecting to get free money? That's dumb.

This all relates more to people who get upset about not getting enough paid vacation or maternity leave. If your employer offers it, that's great go ahead and take it.

Are you saying that not only should you not get Maternity leave paid but you shouldnt get vacation or sick time paid?? I consider it part of my salary and negotiate vacation and sick time when Im offered a job?

MFAinNYC · May 2011

I adressed this yesterday in the UO. It's a benefit, like health insurance and any other disability benefit. You pay into your health insurance and disability benefits. When you take a job, you have to look at the entire package that is offered to you, not just salary. Paid time off (vacation, etc) is factored into the salary offered. You're not getting paid not to work. They have a number of days you are expected to work and THAT is what you are getting paid for. It's just spaced over your paychecks so that you can pay your bills without missing a week. Why would anyone think an employer was giving money away? Companies don't do that.

Think about teachers - they work 38-40 weeks per year but are paid for 52 weeks. They are NOT getting paid for 52 weeks of work. The pay is just spread out over the year to allow them to manage their bills.

I get PTO and STD because I have been at my job a long time and pay into my benefits. I started there as a contractor with NO benefits. I would not even be eligible for FMLA as a contractor. When they hired me full time, they were actually paying me less than they were paying the contracting company for me. In exchange, I got benefits such as PTO, STD and LTD, and being covered under FMLA (which doesn't mean I get paid... that pay comes out of the STD I payed into all these years).

It's unfortunate that not everyone's job comes with benefits like this. There are different levels of skill and education that come into play, and in other cases, circumstances outside of that.

I would tell anyone that your benefits can often be a higher value than your salary, so you cannot just look at a job based on the salary.

e_uecker · May 2011

Epiphany27:
a_brasuell:
Epiphany27:

I was the one who said it.

I will never understand getting paid when you aren't working. This includes vacation time.

Its not some popcorn worthy opinion. Take advantage of it if you have it, I don't care. I just think its weird to expect to get paid when you are not doing your job.

You don't think you should have vacation time?

No, I don't. I don't feel like "earning" time off means you should earn getting paid time off. Yeah, if you want a week off to go on vacation, your employer should give you that. But expecting to get free money? That's dumb.

This all relates more to people who get upset about not getting enough paid vacation or maternity leave. If your employer offers it, that's great go ahead and take it.

Sometimes a jobs benefits are what make them worth it. Like for instance I don't make jack sh!t, but I have free health care and earn five hours of sick leave and five hours of annual leave a paycheck that is not taken at the end of the year. I don't think it's dumb to expect to get work benefits and to chose jobs accordingly.

llcoolay · May 2011

MFAinNYC:

I adressed this yesterday in the UO. It's a benefit, like health insurance and any other disability benefit. You pay into your health insurance and disability benefits. When you take a job, you have to look at the entire package that is offered to you, not just salary. Paid time off (vacation, etc) is factored into the salary offered. You're not getting paid not to work. They have a number of days you are expected to work and THAT is what you are getting paid for. It's just spaced over your paychecks so that you can pay your bills without missing a week. Why would anyone think an employer was giving money away? Companies don't do that.

Think about teachers - they work 38-40 weeks per year but are paid for 52 weeks. They are NOT getting paid for 52 weeks of work. The pay is just spread out over the year to allow them to manage their bills.

I get PTO and STD because I have been at my job a long time and pay into my benefits. I started there as a contractor with NO benefits. I would not even be eligible for FMLA as a contractor. When they hired me full time, they were actually paying me less than they were paying the contracting company for me. In exchange, I got benefits such as PTO, STD and LTD, and being covered under FMLA (which doesn't mean I get paid... that pay comes out of the STD I payed into all these years).

It's unfortunate that not everyone's job comes with benefits like this. There are different levels of skill and education that come into play, and in other cases, circumstances outside of that.

I would tell anyone that your benefits can often be a higher value than your salary, so you cannot just look at a job based on the salary.

My thoughts exactly...thanks for sharing.

colorschemer · May 2011

Epiphany27:
I was the one who said it.
I will never understand getting paid when you aren't working. This includes vacation time.
Its not some popcorn worthy opinion. Take advantage of it if you have it, I don't care. I just think its weird to expect to get paid when you are not doing your job.

I don't really have an opinion on the side of should or shouldn't, but I understand why it is simply not part of some employment packages. Certain jobs come with certain perks based on the theory that you're a valuable employee and having to replace you would suck, so they should make you happy and your life a little easier.

I worked as a temp for years with no health insurance and no pay time off of any kind. I did it because it had other advantages, like that since I was young and unattached I could take a couple of weeks off between long assignments just for the heck of it. However, because I was highly replaceable, I didn't have things like paid time off - maternity, sick, vacation, whatever. I was paid for each hour I worked because that was the type of job it was.

My last job was at a small non-profit. I knew when I went to work there that my benefits would be minimal. That was one of the things I understood. So should I have gotten maternity leave? Nope. Not in the agreement.

And just to make things ugly, let's extrapolate to people who have Dugger-sized families. My father had to spend all of his saved vacation and sick leave to recover from a heart attack but someone should get paid to stay home and recoop from their 6, 7, 8, 9, 19th child? It's a valid question. We want judgement calls made to our benefit (i.e. mothers being home with their newborn babies without hardship) but then don't think that others should be judged (number of times we use that maternity leave. paid or otherwise).

I'm not trying to argue that nobody should be offered paid paternity leave or that everyone should, but just that it isn't such an obvious choice. Those who have qualified for and taken jobs that offer paid maternity lease should get it because it has been promised. The rest of us suckers knew what we signed up for.

MFAinNYC · May 2011

Oh, my job also offers additional PTO. How does that work?

Just like regular PTO. You get paid less for the whole year.

If I want to "buy" an additional week of vacation, they take that money out of the balance of my yearly salary and split it up over all the remaining paychecks. It's not free.

amygoable · May 2011

Well, my husband gets paid paternity leave! It's only 2 weeks, but still, that's like "free vacation" for him. Except not, because he's working for me . He's not even in a medical situation he needs to recover from, though he could take FMLA. It's just a benefit that I'm REALLY glad is around. It's an employer's way of saying they support families, and not doing it is kinda jerky, IMO.

For women, it's just a way for employers to support working moms and also to say they understand that this is an extended "sick" time that you wouldn't normally have, so they shouldn't take it out of your allotted time for colds/flus etc.

MFAinNYC · May 2011

fogleer:

It's awesome if they offer it. But it's a perk, not an entitlement. If it's super important to you, then make finding a job that offers that perk a priority when choosing a career path or looking for jobs, rather than b*tching about a situation you should have been fully aware of when you were hired.

Completely true.

abrazz · May 2011

At my last job they offered STD which I paid a premium for and it was really nice to have it eventhough there were some strange things about how it worked. This time it is not offered and we didn't have the funds to buy my own policy that wasn't through my job. I never have felt entitled to paid time off but I feel like I earn it lol. I agree you should know your benefits before, or at least soon after, getting pregnant or even having surgery for that matter. I did have a friend who freaked out when she found out the small company she worked for didn't have to go by FMLA standards or pay her maternity leave.

Gummybear · May 2011

MFAinNYC:
fogleer:

It's awesome if they offer it. But it's a perk, not an entitlement. If it's super important to you, then make finding a job that offers that perk a priority when choosing a career path or looking for jobs, rather than b*tching about a situation you should have been fully aware of when you were hired.
Completely true.

Yes

That is really the root of the issue. It's your fault if you took a job w/o explicitly understanding your benefit package. Don't expect sympathy because you don't have paid leave -- you should have been aware of that before accepting your position or at the very least, before TTC.

Ash&Vic · May 2011

I'm a CPA and I tend to work some pretty insane hours during my busy season (even during my off season depending on what projects I'm working on). Since I don't get paid extra when I pull in a 60hr + work week, I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about getting paid for my vacation or ML. I do think its "earned" and well deserved Smile

.

colorschemer · May 2011

Gummybear:
MFAinNYC:
fogleer:

It's awesome if they offer it. But it's a perk, not an entitlement. If it's super important to you, then make finding a job that offers that perk a priority when choosing a career path or looking for jobs, rather than b*tching about a situation you should have been fully aware of when you were hired.
Completely true.
That is really the root of the issue. It's your fault if you took a job w/o explicitly understanding your benefit package. Don't expect sympathy because you don't have paid leave -- you should have been aware of that before accepting your position or at the very least, before TTC.

I do think that it is more complicated than not understanding your compensation package. Some people have no other choice than to take jobs that do not come with benefits. No, I don't think that anyone is owed paid time off unless that is part of the agreement with their employer, but you can still have some sympathy for those women who have had to accept jobs that don't offer it. I mean, I can understand how the world works without looking at the lady waiting tables and thinking tough cookies, shoulda thought of that before you got pregnant.

meg211 · May 2011

jsong:
My maternity leave is through STD. I pay for that insurance out of my paycheck every month. That is why we have things like insurance. So, for all the years that I paid towards STD and never had to use it, I feel that I deserve the 50% that I get through STD.

ITA. Its insurance, just as if I had fallen and broken my back and unable to come to work for some period of time. I certainly don't think of it as a 'perk' or anything - just part of the insurance I pay for.

x0stephanie · May 2011

I pay 12% harmonized sales tax (HST) on every single purchase I make, plus have buttloads of income tax taken off my check every 2 weeks so yes, I feel like I'm entitled to paid maternity leave. In fact I've already started

llcoolay · May 2011

Gummybear:
MFAinNYC:
fogleer:

It's awesome if they offer it. But it's a perk, not an entitlement. If it's super important to you, then make finding a job that offers that perk a priority when choosing a career path or looking for jobs, rather than b*tching about a situation you should have been fully aware of when you were hired.

Completely true.

That is really the root of the issue. It's your fault if you took a job w/o explicitly understanding your benefit package. Don't expect sympathy because you don't have paid leave -- you should have been aware of that before accepting your position or at the very least, before TTC.

I agree...thank god my company and the state of CA give woman 5 months maternity leave. However I think all woman desrve this time to bond with their child.

njohnson1972 · May 2011

I am all about benefits!! I think of it is as part of my total compensation.

And that is what makes employers competitive.

If I ever went to an organization that didn't have 401(k) matching, life insurance, adoption benefits, vacation and sick time or any other type of leave, then I would have to demand more money.

It is about the entire picture.

The down side is that not offering some maternity leave makes it very hard for women in general to succeed in the work force. Also, the company benefits - I am coming back and they don't have to spend money with a replacement. I am incented to go back because I do get some leave, time to recover and they treat working mothers good.

And we have had numerous employees that have taking a lot of time of due to illness/cancer treatments. And because my employer was good to them during hard times, they are very loyal. Trust me, competitors have tried to steal them and they say no.

Gummybear · May 2011

colorschemer:
Gummybear:
MFAinNYC:
fogleer:

It's awesome if they offer it. But it's a perk, not an entitlement. If it's super important to you, then make finding a job that offers that perk a priority when choosing a career path or looking for jobs, rather than b*tching about a situation you should have been fully aware of when you were hired.
Completely true.
That is really the root of the issue. It's your fault if you took a job w/o explicitly understanding your benefit package. Don't expect sympathy because you don't have paid leave -- you should have been aware of that before accepting your position or at the very least, before TTC.

I do think that it is more complicated than not understanding your compensation package. Some people have no other choice than to take jobs that do not come with benefits. No, I don't think that anyone is owed paid time off unless that is part of the agreement with their employer, but you can still have some sympathy for those women who have had to accept jobs that don't offer it. I mean, I can understand how the world works without looking at the lady waiting tables and thinking tough cookies, shoulda thought of that before you got pregnant.

I am not talking about just not having it -- believe me, I understand having to take whatever comes along -- I lost my job last year. What I am saying is that one should not whine and complain about how they are entitled to such a benefit and how awful their employers is, how awful the US is, and how unfair it is that they don't have the benefit because they have no idea how they will make it through.

I stand my my comment that you should always fully understand your benefit package before accepting a job, whether it be flipping burgers at McDonalds, or CEO of a multi-million dollar company. That way you can plan accordingly.

llcoolay · May 2011

njohnson1972:

I am all about benefits!! I think of it is as part of my total compensation.

And that is what makes employers competitive.

If I ever went to an organization that didn't have 401(k) matching, life insurance, adoption benefits, vacation and sick time or any other type of leave, then I would have to demand more money.

It is about the entire picture.

The down side is that not offering some maternity leave makes it very hard for women in general to succeed in the work force. Also, the company benefits - I am coming back and they don't have to spend money with a replacement. I am incented to go back because I do get some leave, time to recover and they treat working mothers good.

And we have had numerous employees that have taking a lot of time of due to illness/cancer treatments. And because my employer was good to them during hard times, they are very loyal. Trust me, competitors have tried to steal them and they say no.

Yes I feel the same exact way. Its tuff enough for woman in the work force. Take this away and it makes it even harder.

caraleeb · May 2011

x0stephanie:
I pay 12% harmonized sales tax (HST) on every single purchase I make, plus have buttloads of income tax taken off my check every 2 weeks so yes, I feel like I'm entitled to paid maternity leave. In fact I've already started

We also pay EI, at least in BC so i feel like really i've paid for myself to get it over the last 10 years! I havent started yet im waiting till the last possible moment though, part of me is tempted to start my year early

Gummybear · May 2011

caraleeb:
x0stephanie:
I pay 12% harmonized sales tax (HST) on every single purchase I make, plus have buttloads of income tax taken off my check every 2 weeks so yes, I feel like I'm entitled to paid maternity leave. In fact I've already started
We also pay EI, at least in BC so i feel like really i've paid for myself to get it over the last 10 years! I havent started yet im waiting till the last possible moment though, part of me is tempted to start my year early

You are absolutely entitled to it. You have paid for it through your tax dollars. I think what a lot of people fail to realize is that the Canadian gov't/other gov'ts are not just throwing money in the air and handing out "Get out of work free for a year" cards to their citizens. You are paying for it. No one wants their taxes raised. Just look at this healthcare debacle here is the US. It's the same thing. Nothing is FREE. Not here, not in Canada.

soontobemrsdavis · May 2011

Are there really people out there that get paid vacation and maternity leave either 1. Starting day one of employment or 2. Do not pay for it in some way? I would assume and others have stated that those that do have paid leave have actually paid into them for at least a year and/or it is tied to their salary/benefits package.

Do you personally know people that don't pay into insurance/disability AND make over the typical salary range for that job, who still get paid vaca and leave? If so they got it made! I have paid into my benefits every 2 weeks for almost 10 years at my employer and I will use every drop of sick, personal, vacation, and leave(not full pay) as I can.

pixiegirl131415 · May 2011

llcoolay:

I noticed on UO yesterday that there were several woman saying that they don't understand why woman should get paid during Maternity Leave. I am curious to hear more about this as I can't imagine this train of thought. Can someone please enlighten me on thier view? Are there really woman that believe this or was that just a joke?

Please discuss................

I'm sorry, I know it's not the point of the post, but it's bugging the crap out of me. The word you mean to use is "women", not "woman". If it were just once, I would chalk it up to a typo, but since it is several times in your post, I have to assume you didn't know. I would want someone to tell me if I was using the wrong word...

momtoRaegan041008 · May 2011

I must have missed this yesterday. I wish I got a paid maternity leave.

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