One of the reasons SAHM's get criticized by WM's...

LJR 84 · April 2011

pumpkinwife07:
RMJ80- I think it would be best if you just locked your children down in your basement right now. No outside influences at all. ever. I really hope this doesn't backfire on your when your kids are say, 16.

Yes Yes Yes

hellopoppyseed · April 2011

pumpkinwife07:
RMJ80- What would you ever do if you have no choice but to work? What if your DH lost his job or left you? You very well could be "forced" to have someone care for your child full time. If you ever have to eat your words, I hope I'm around to see it.
>

Really? You'd like to see what happens if her husband dies or loses his job or leaves her? Not helpful, not appropriate, not ok. You need to check yourself before you wreck yourself.

IHeartPJPants · April 2011

jcyahne:

I'm a lurker here...

We've had a SAHD situation for over two years. So because he is home with the girls all day long is he raising them more than me? Because I have to tell you that it sure doesn't feel that way.

And FWIW, I think the whole SAHM/WM debate is BS. People need to get over themselves, stop worrying about everybody else's choices and just do what is best for their own families.

Lurker here also. THANK YOU for saying this. I wonder how many DHs of SAHMs are not "raising" their own kids. BAER!

Dochas · April 2011

Bubbs1217:
scatteredtrees:
rmj80:

just out of curiosity is it the stranger part that makes that statement so "cringe-worthy"?

One of the reasons I chose to be a SAHM was because it was important to DH and I that we were the primary caregivers and thus the primary influence on our children...especially in the early years. We weren't interested in strangers, our best friend, a licensed caregiver, or even our parents caring for our children if we could avoid it.

I feel that is a very valid reason...isn't it part of everyone's reason for SAH?? I know we're not doing it for the glory, or because we love cleaning the house and doing laundry.

Exactly. This.

Yes one of my primary reasons for being home is so I can be the main caregiver and primary influence and enjoy the time with my daughter.

I guess in my above post I was reacting to the wording of it. When SAHM's make the blanket statement of: "I don't want a stranger raising my baby!" it irks me. Many of my friends are working moms who would love to stay home if they could. They are donig the best they can for their family by working and leaving their children with the best care they can find. I know how this type of statement makes them feel.

That's part of why there is a separate SAHM board.

Beth.05 · April 2011

pumpkinwife07:
RMJ80 - I think it would be best if you went back and read through everything you wrote - not once did I see you write anything positive about daycare.

Does this ring a bell? We weren't interested in strangers, our best friend, a licensed caregiver, or even our parents caring for our children if we could avoid it.

I'm hoping at some point you can't avoid it. You are closed-minded.

AlmostJennifer - You are clearly uneducated when it comes to daycare/preschool, etc if you think they are raising your kid. There may very well come a time in your life when having someone else (GASP) may have to watch your child. Notice I said watch, not raise.

This is a terrible thing to say. Shame on you.

And it's not "closed-minded", it's a difference of opinion.

FWIW, I hate the phrasing of it too. I know that would hurt so many of my working mom friends. I definitely sah so I can be the primary influence in my kid's life during this time though. Also, because I am selfish and these baby/toddler/preschool years are just so precious. I love getting to be with them all day long (with plenty of mommy nights out though )

rubber_chicken · April 2011

Working mother of an older foster kid here with a different perspective - I'm confused by the woman who could never have their infant cared by another person, but who have no problem with working once the kids are in school, and here's why:

An infant doesn't need its mother - an infant needs someone to feed and change them. It doesn't matter who does it, especially not to the baby, because that's not what raising your kid is. Is the orderly at the nursing home "raising" your grandmother when he changes the bedpan?

Now on the other hand, my fourth grader needs me to study with her and talk about whats going on with her friends and with boys and so-and-so got her period and what's that and why do women get it and omg all we do is TALK. there just isn't enough time in the day to talk about everything and figure out everything and NOW I wish I could work part-time to spend more time with her.

THIS is what raising your kid is. Helping your child navigate the world. I'M doing this, not her teachers, or her afterschool caregivers. ME. Her values weren't set at age 2 (thank god) - they're being set now.

msnehz · April 2011

rubber_chicken:

Working mother of an older foster kid here with a different perspective - I'm confused by the woman who could never have their infant cared by another person, but who have no problem with working once the kids are in school, and here's why:

An infant doesn't need its mother - an infant needs someone to feed and change them. It doesn't matter who does it, especially not to the baby, because that's not what raising your kid is. Is the orderly at the nursing home "raising" your grandmother when he changes the bedpan?

Now on the other hand, my fourth grader needs me to study with her and talk about whats going on with her friends and with boys and so-and-so got her period and what's that and why do women get it and omg all we do is TALK. there just isn't enough time in the day to talk about everything and figure out everything and NOW I wish I could work part-time to spend more time with her.

THIS is what raising your kid is. Helping your child navigate the world. I'M doing this, not her teachers, or her afterschool caregivers. ME. Her values weren't set at age 2 (thank god) - they're being set now.

Um, really? Wow.

wifeandmama · April 2011

scatteredtrees:
rubber_chicken:

Working mother of an older foster kid here with a different perspective - I'm confused by the woman who could never have their infant cared by another person, but who have no problem with working once the kids are in school, and here's why:
An infant doesn't need its mother - an infant needs someone to feed and change them. It doesn't matter who does it, especially not to the baby, because that's not what raising your kid is. Is the orderly at the nursing home "raising" your grandmother when he changes the bedpan?
Now on the other hand, my fourth grader needs me to study with her and talk about whats going on with her friends and with boys and so-and-so got her period and what's that and why do women get it and omg all we do is TALK. there just isn't enough time in the day to talk about everything and figure out everything and NOW I wish I could work part-time to spend more time with her.
THIS is what raising your kid is. Helping your child navigate the world. I'M doing this, not her teachers, or her afterschool caregivers. ME. Her values weren't set at age 2 (thank god) - they're being set now.
I COMPLETELY disagree with this statement. An infant needs his mother. I don't care if it's a biological, adoptive, or foster mother, a baby needs a mother. A baby needs to be fed and changed, yes... and yes that can be done by a father, a sibling, a grandparent, a nanny. But to say a baby doesn't need his mother is (dare I say) absurd.

aaaamen.

I can recall many, many times with both of my kids when nothing calmed them but me... not just any old someone who could feed and change them. What an awful statement.

babypuplove · April 2011

wifeandmama:
scatteredtrees:
rubber_chicken:

Working mother of an older foster kid here with a different perspective - I'm confused by the woman who could never have their infant cared by another person, but who have no problem with working once the kids are in school, and here's why:
An infant doesn't need its mother - an infant needs someone to feed and change them. It doesn't matter who does it, especially not to the baby, because that's not what raising your kid is. Is the orderly at the nursing home "raising" your grandmother when he changes the bedpan?
Now on the other hand, my fourth grader needs me to study with her and talk about whats going on with her friends and with boys and so-and-so got her period and what's that and why do women get it and omg all we do is TALK. there just isn't enough time in the day to talk about everything and figure out everything and NOW I wish I could work part-time to spend more time with her.
THIS is what raising your kid is. Helping your child navigate the world. I'M doing this, not her teachers, or her afterschool caregivers. ME. Her values weren't set at age 2 (thank god) - they're being set now.
I COMPLETELY disagree with this statement. An infant needs his mother. I don't care if it's a biological, adoptive, or foster mother, a baby needs a mother. A baby needs to be fed and changed, yes... and yes that can be done by a father, a sibling, a grandparent, a nanny. But to say a baby doesn't need his mother is (dare I say) absurd.
aaaamen.
I can recall many, many times with both of my kids when nothing calmed them but me... not just any old someone who could feed and change them. What an awful statement.

Ditto. That's completely idiotic. Infants are little humans who need comfort, love, attention, and a bond in addition to someone who will feed and change them. When my 9 month old is teething and fussy, I can hold her and she clings to me like a little monkey. My two year old asks me for hugs and kisses and gives me "pat pats" on my back all day long. I'm not just here to keep them clean and fed.

Dochas · April 2011

amy052006:
scatteredtrees:
rubber_chicken:

Working mother of an older foster kid here with a different perspective - I'm confused by the woman who could never have their infant cared by another person, but who have no problem with working once the kids are in school, and here's why:

An infant doesn't need its mother - an infant needs someone to feed and change them. It doesn't matter who does it, especially not to the baby, because that's not what raising your kid is. Is the orderly at the nursing home "raising" your grandmother when he changes the bedpan?

Now on the other hand, my fourth grader needs me to study with her and talk about whats going on with her friends and with boys and so-and-so got her period and what's that and why do women get it and omg all we do is TALK. there just isn't enough time in the day to talk about everything and figure out everything and NOW I wish I could work part-time to spend more time with her.

THIS is what raising your kid is. Helping your child navigate the world. I'M doing this, not her teachers, or her afterschool caregivers. ME. Her values weren't set at age 2 (thank god) - they're being set now.

I COMPLETELY disagree with this statement. An infant needs his mother. I don't care if it's a biological, adoptive, or foster mother, a baby needs a mother. A baby needs to be fed and changed, yes... and yes that can be done by a father, a sibling, a grandparent, a nanny. But to say a baby doesn't need his mother is (dare I say) absurd.
Eh, plenty of kids don't have mothers and thrive.
I think you are sort of jumping on the wrong thing. Her point was that just because someone is wiping asses and giving bottles all day doesn't mean they are "raising" a child -- anyone can do it. Anyone can meet basic needs.
Besides my magical ability to make milk, DH can do all of the same things I can for our son, and does. My mother can soothe him, and so can his DCP. But that still doesn't mean anyone besides my husband and I are raising him.
Of course, I also don't get the BFD about getting butt hurt about having help raising your kids. I don't get what is so offensive about having multiple adults in a child's life who love and care for him or her. I like that other people can care for him. Even when I am not working, that is still a nice thing for a child to have.
ETA: I'm not saying anyone hear is butthurt, per se. I just don't get it, or the whole idea that any one parent is so amazing no one could ever go what they do -- be it a dcp, a babysitter, or even a father. Lots of people can care for your kid, and really I don't believe for a second when my kid was a newborn he knew the difference between me and the cat. When he was fed, dry and held he was happy. And I'm coming at this as someone who does think she might want to be home more. Maybe. It is selfish on my part. I'm under no illusion it is because someone can't care for him like I can.

I'm guessing you're probably right.

laurakaz13 · April 2011

Wow. As someone who is not quitting her job after maternity leave is up, although I could at any time because my DH makes a ton of money, this whole battle always intrigues me.

I hope I never meet someone in real life who criticizes my choice to continue with my career.

rumdrinx · April 2011

Neil Patrick Harris and David Burtka are reading this and they say that their twins don't need a mother

mrsrobinsontobe · April 2011

I don't really think it's the "raising" comments that bother me as a pt teacher, that's just naivete or cliche...it's the condescending remarks that are just so far off base! it's obviously not all sahms, but some consider themselves so fortunate that they can stay at home and figure that wm's must be soooooo jealous of that! not so much, especially when women have put a lot of effort into establishing themselves and see value in their careers being something that partially defines them and that their children can be quite proud of! personally, i think it's about quality of time spent together...as a family, not just mom with the kids! i wouldn't trade my pt status for anything. yes, i bring in a nice income, but moreso because it creates a nice balance in our home. my husband and i are partners in everything that we do, especially when it comes to raising our little children... that's what's missing in too many families these days -- 2 involved parents!

JMB22 · April 2011

pumpkinwife07:

JMB22 - Just because you are a SAHM does not mean you are a good mom. I would imagine some children have a better quality of life at a daycare. I think it's wonderful that you provide the very best to your child by staying home, but that is certainly not the case for everyone.

That's why I talked about my situation. Wink

JMB22 · April 2011

Liz342:
MalloryRae:

wifeandmama:
Pumpkin likes to start drama, I think.

This! I can't believe you guys took the bait!

As soon as I posted, I realized I took the bait. I should have known!!!!! I'm usually much better at staying away from it.

mysticporter · April 2011

rmj80:
just out of curiosity is it the stranger part that makes that statement so "cringe-worthy"?

One of the reasons I chose to be a SAHM was because it was important to DH and I that we were the primary caregivers and thus the primary influence on our children...especially in the early years. We weren't interested in strangers, our best friend, a licensed caregiver, or even our parents caring for our children if we could avoid it.

I feel that is a very valid reason...isn't it part of everyone's reason for SAH?? I know we're not doing it for the glory, or because we love cleaning the house and doing laundry.

So...neither of you work? Must be tough to pay the bills. Seriously, I'm sure you and your husband are *both* raising your kids, just like dual career spouses are also raising their kids: they just have extra partners.

"I don't want a stranger raising my kids" is to SAHM's what "I don't want to waste my education" is to WM's. It might be a semantics thing, it might be an element of truth or a poor phrasing thing or whatever, but really, it just comes down to sounding holier-than-thou and insensitive.

EJChapman123 · April 2011

laurakaz13:

Wow. As someone who is not quitting her job after maternity leave is up, although I could at any time because my DH makes a ton of money, this whole battle always intrigues me.

I hope I never meet someone in real life who criticizes my choice to continue with my career.

I haven't even had a kid yet and I can tell you right now, someone will.

And if you change your mind and stay home, someone will criticize you for that too.

It's a damn shame too. We are all just doing what we can, what we think is best. Some people choose to work. some people have to work, some people like staying home. For every SAHM saying "I don't want a stranger raising my child" there is a WM who says "SAHMs don't have real jobs". Bummer. People need to focus on themselves and their choices, not what other people are doing.

Dochas · April 2011

laurakaz13:
Wow. As someone who is not quitting her job after maternity leave is up, although I could at any time because my DH makes a ton of money, this whole battle always intrigues me.

I hope I never meet someone in real life who criticizes my choice to continue with my career.

Give the same respect you ask for and you'll be just fine. And you'll probably be too busy to go running to other boards to argue.

rubber_chicken · April 2011

amy052006:
scatteredtrees:
rubber_chicken:

Working mother of an older foster kid here with a different perspective - I'm confused by the woman who could never have their infant cared by another person, but who have no problem with working once the kids are in school, and here's why:

An infant doesn't need its mother - an infant needs someone to feed and change them. It doesn't matter who does it, especially not to the baby, because that's not what raising your kid is. Is the orderly at the nursing home "raising" your grandmother when he changes the bedpan?

Now on the other hand, my fourth grader needs me to study with her and talk about whats going on with her friends and with boys and so-and-so got her period and what's that and why do women get it and omg all we do is TALK. there just isn't enough time in the day to talk about everything and figure out everything and NOW I wish I could work part-time to spend more time with her.

THIS is what raising your kid is. Helping your child navigate the world. I'M doing this, not her teachers, or her afterschool caregivers. ME. Her values weren't set at age 2 (thank god) - they're being set now.

I COMPLETELY disagree with this statement. An infant needs his mother. I don't care if it's a biological, adoptive, or foster mother, a baby needs a mother. A baby needs to be fed and changed, yes... and yes that can be done by a father, a sibling, a grandparent, a nanny. But to say a baby doesn't need his mother is (dare I say) absurd.
Eh, plenty of kids don't have mothers and thrive.
I think you are sort of jumping on the wrong thing. Her point was that just because someone is wiping asses and giving bottles all day doesn't mean they are "raising" a child -- anyone can do it. Anyone can meet basic needs.
Besides my magical ability to make milk, DH can do all of the same things I can for our son, and does. My mother can soothe him, and so can his DCP. But that still doesn't mean anyone besides my husband and I are raising him.
Of course, I also don't get the BFD about getting butt hurt about having help raising your kids. I don't get what is so offensive about having multiple adults in a child's life who love and care for him or her. I like that other people can care for him. Even when I am not working, that is still a nice thing for a child to have.
ETA: I'm not saying anyone hear is butthurt, per se. I just don't get it, or the whole idea that any one parent is so amazing no one could ever go what they do -- be it a dcp, a babysitter, or even a father. Lots of people can care for your kid, and really I don't believe for a second when my kid was a newborn he knew the difference between me and the cat. When he was fed, dry and held he was happy. And I'm coming at this as someone who does think she might want to be home more. Maybe. It is selfish on my part. I'm under no illusion it is because someone can't care for him like I can.

Thank you - this is EXACTLY what I was saying. Just not as eloquently as you said. Honestly it seems like some people are either stubborn, willfully ignorant or just poor at reading comprehension.

Look, stay at home, work out of home, whatever. Whatever works for you and your family is fine. I don't think anyone really worries all that much about what other people do with their lives. It's the air of superiority (on both sites) that makes this an "issue" at all.

laurakaz13 · April 2011

Dochas:
laurakaz13:

Wow. As someone who is not quitting her job after maternity leave is up, although I could at any time because my DH makes a ton of money, this whole battle always intrigues me.

I hope I never meet someone in real life who criticizes my choice to continue with my career.

Give the same respect you ask for and you'll be just fine. And you'll probably be too busy to go running to other boards to argue.

Exactly! I come on both boards just to read the baby advice. I have friends and family who are WM and SAHM's and I think they all do what is best for them. No judgement whatsoever! I couldn't care less at all. It's just a crazy argument, and much of it is really mean.

I think women/mother's are supposed to stand together and help each other. Not be catty b*tches about everything. *Sigh*

Jerseygirl16 · April 2011

JMB22:

I try not to ever say this, because I can only imagine how hurtful it is to working mothers, but deep down, it is how I feel, especially regarding daycares. This isn't to knock down daycares. Daycare providers try REALLY hard and have a VERY difficult job in my opinion, but there is just no possible way they can give every single child one-on-one care like I can with my DS at home. They can't possibly love my DS as much as I do either. Selfishly, even if we had a close family member nearby to take care of our DS during the day, and give him all the one-on-one attention I do, I would feel really hurt and really jealous of that family member getting to see so many firsts. While the wording of the original statement is not the best, I do think it's a valid reason for wanting to be a SAHM. Still, using that reason to knock down a working mom who is just trying to do what is best for her family is NOT OK. Many families live in HCOL towns that require both parents to work. Just because a mom can't be a SAHM doesn't mean she loves her kids any less and it doesn't mean she shouldn't be a mom.

This. Exactly.

almostjennifer · April 2011

Jerseygirl16:
JMB22:

I try not to ever say this, because I can only imagine how hurtful it is to working mothers, but deep down, it is how I feel, especially regarding daycares. This isn't to knock down daycares. Daycare providers try REALLY hard and have a VERY difficult job in my opinion, but there is just no possible way they can give every single child one-on-one care like I can with my DS at home. They can't possibly love my DS as much as I do either. Selfishly, even if we had a close family member nearby to take care of our DS during the day, and give him all the one-on-one attention I do, I would feel really hurt and really jealous of that family member getting to see so many firsts. While the wording of the original statement is not the best, I do think it's a valid reason for wanting to be a SAHM. Still, using that reason to knock down a working mom who is just trying to do what is best for her family is NOT OK. Many families live in HCOL towns that require both parents to work. Just because a mom can't be a SAHM doesn't mean she loves her kids any less and it doesn't mean she shouldn't be a mom.

This. Exactly.

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