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***ETA**** beta just confirmed what I already knew. It was 9. ****
My dear friends,
My heart is sad, and I need your help. I don't know what to do next.
Long story short, we just found out pregnancy #12 didn't stick. Story of my life.
Although it was a very difficult and guilt-laden decision to "lay low" during this cycle, I needed it for my nerves. And my husband asked me to. I feel bad, because you have all been NOTHING but most supportive in my journey. But after so many failed cycles, I just felt it was best to spare you the rollercoaster ride. I hope you understand. I kinda feel ok about this decision now, b/c it's been one helluva month.
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We just did a fresh IVF (#3) and I was TERRIFIED that it wouldn't go well. I couldn't have been more wrong, and to our surprise, it could have not GONE any better. Dr Sassy stimmed me HARD and FAST (450 follistim + 150 meno x 10days- freaky!!) and for some reason (rested ovaries?) that worked!
21 retrieved, and 13 mature. ALL 13 fertilized with ICSI, blew us out of the water!!!! We transfered 2 AMAZING hatching blasts on day 5, vitrified 2 that day, and THREE MORE on day 6. So I have FIVE frosties! Just amazing.
PS - The little stuffed owl you guys gave me? It was there with me every step of the way. It brought me great comfort. For real.
So how could this cycle NOT work? Right???
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I started steroids right as I finished stimming, and my immunologist even doubled the dose at one point, as I felt my body flaring up. Dr. Sassy gave me the option to freeze and FET them a month later, but at that point, we had a GREAT stim, NO OHSS, and I felt great. It was actually a pretty pleasant stim, lol. (I only did lupron and BCP for a couple weeks, I think that made it a LOT easier) PLUS I was able to get IVIG on board the day prior to transfer. Although that was a bit late, it was the best I could do, due to some insurance crap. (It should have gone in at least a week prior, but I did my best)
But even with IVIG and huge steroids on board, my body still flared up. SOMETHING else is going on in there. I don't know what.
PUZZLE PIECE #1 - whatever response my body has, it's NOT squashed by steroids and IVIG. Um, that's weird.
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We got another hint with my betas. I got a BFP 5dp5dt. But beta at days 15 & 17 sucked. 37 for both, p4 28. First response to THAT was doom and hysterics. But then I reminded myself how my last FET in Nov started that way, and we got out of the gate with twins. AND I found old records for Ava that showed HER beta 17dpo was only 99. So I spent the weekend hopeful.
Today there's barely a second line on a FRER. (beta coming back this afternoon to confirm, but I'm sure this is over)
PUZZLE PIECE #2 - I don't make hCG very fast. I have NEVER had "good" betas early on. Never. Pituitary issues? Is this a SIDE EFFECT of a crap pregnancy, or the CAUSE of one? KWIM?
I've had hot flashes and cold sweats since BFP. (and severe scalp/body itching) Sure, maybe part of that is just normal pregnancy, but it just doesn't seem right.
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Our choices, as we see them:
1. Be done. Enjoy being "one and done" and love our daughter to bits. I leave this as a choice, but to me, it's not an option. I NEED to mother others. End of story.
2. Quit ART and adopt. While I have no major beef with this option (and we've already put the word out re: private adoption) in order to do it in a time-efficient manner, it will cost a LOT of money. (facilitator) Money we don't really have b/c we bought into the IVF Warranty program.
3. Keep going with the IVF Warranty program we bought into. We have the (5) remaining embryos and then another fresh cycle, + those remaining embryos to FET. The deal is (3) fresh, all frozen, (must do frozen before fresh) = live baby +30 days. If we complete that process with no live baby, we get about $15K back. It's all "free" at this point, the only costs to continue are minor monitoring costs, and a disgusting $5K for stim meds if I stim again.
Here's the BIG ISSUE - We make good embryos. So at some point, I need to admit that we're pretty much tossing them out the window here. Ava stuck. I've had some others stick. (for a while). But we have NO idea why they did so. Or why they don't.
PUZZLE PIECE #3 - I have never stayed pregnant from a "stimmed" cycle. Any pregnancy that made it past those initial few days, was either non-medicated, or a FET. I don't know what it means, but it's beyond a coincidence, at this point, 'me thinks. I THINK THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT CLUE. Just don't know what it means.
I'm having this enternal conflict with myself and God, really. My faith is all but gone, but I care what He thinks? What? Does that make sense? I mean, FAITH is a very personal thing, and not what we need to argue about, but at what point do you worry about ETHICS and MORALITY, or can you chuck it all and just plow ahead in attempts to get what you REALLY REALLY want? (i.e. our complete happy family) Davez says "You're Catholic. Just committ the sin (continue the warranty) and ask for forgiveness after." He's only half kidding. And let's be honest, I've been distant from my faith for quite a while. So I'm troubled why it's even a part of dictating my next move now. (Catholic guilt? lol)
God isn't "doing this" to me, nor is He helping. So I'm inclined to leave Him out of this, and just go for what we want. Fear of being "unethical" is really the only thing holding me back from proceeding with our next cycle.
4. Gestational Carrier - (3) amazing beautiful wonderful and spectacular women have offered to carry a baby for us. All have possibilities. We are very honored to have this option right in front of us. Obviously I have the embryos waiting for her, but it will "null and void" the warranty, (i.e. no money back, or future fresh cycle avail) and even without compensated them in some way, this will cost us $10-15K (guess) in prep, ART, legal and insurance fees. While I REALLY want to experience a long healthy pregnancy ONCE MORE, I don't care if we have another bio kid. So we basically have to choose the GC route, or adoption. We won't have money for both. Or we save an embryo or two for them AFTER I actually get a live baby from my own ute and just find the money. At least one of the gals is young enough to consider this 12-18mos down the road.
5. Do more testing. Here's the rope with that... I can run more tests. Sure. BUT there's not really other treatments out there. Perhaps a little thyroid med if we can head the TSH/ATA route (a possibility) but doing IVIG is pretty much the "cure all" for everything I could have. Stay on the steroids, get more IVIG infusions, (I fear I just didn't get my 1st soon enough, booooooo) and maybe go nuts and go gluten-free... that's about all I can do to prep for a FET. And if we stimmed again, I would freeze them and FET them, NO MORE FRESH TRANSFERS. Done. It does not work for me.
6. What am I missing? What else?
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We're tired. I've still got some Tiger Blood left in me (not at the moment, though. whew.) but Davez is kinda "meh" to it all. He says the other morning - "We've turned into a bad version of 'Groundhog's Day' or something." And he's right. We want to be past this, in a very bad way. We want to get back to traveling, and thinking about moving out of the country. We're tired of no answers. Tired of bad luck. Just dog tired.
I'm inclined to add some thyroid meds, stay on the steroids and IVIG, and do another FET asap. If that doesn't work, detox and literally do the most natural FET we can. Maybe my body just hates being messed with? I can handle physically stimming again. Mentally? meh. It's all a roll of the dice at this point. lol.
I'll be talking to Dr. Sassy today or tomorrow, to get his thoughts.
My apologies for being so long. I kinda had to just talk this all out, and C&P seemed easiest. While this decision is ours, I would like to know what you all think. Your thoughts matter b/c you guys GET this. You KNOW how fecking hard this all is. There is NO clear black and white answer to any of it.
If you want to be more personal, you're welcome to email me. (david_and_tracie at y a hoo)
I thank you in advance for your kind (AND HONEST) thoughts.
In lieu of YET ANOTHER another round of "sorry's" I'll accept booze, and your 2 cents on what to do next. ;-)
Many many thanks, my friends. | 
DavezWife
member
Re: Ladies, I need your help. Big time.
Hugs.
I have no idea what I'd do. My gut says to go with the gestational carrier, but that's me.
oh man, GEEZ! I really thought the IVIG was gonna cover all the bases. I'd be really torn to the next step too, with all those workable options. I totally see the money aspect of the decision. Man, this is one fustrating puzzle! If you & Davez can emotioally handle riding out the rest of your warranty, I say stick with it.
On the other hand, like you said, the embies are fine (until who knows what happens inside you) then maybe consider one of the surrogates, but then again that will cost you a lot more. I'm just going to wish you lots of GL for now until you decide!
It still might. I mean, it's a "proven miracle drug,"
I just (perhaps) didn't get it in time for this cycle.
Lurker here...
I won't say THAT - but instead treat you to a nice Buffalo Zoo from BW3.
And a ethics thoughts - Isn't giving the embies a chance more ethical than not? Just thinking out of my butt here..
Oh, and ::hugs:: and Teese and Peese...
Malakai - 8.3.09
Ezra - 12.1.11 ASD
Ditto all of this. I'd give lots of thought to the gestational carrier option. Good luck to you and Davez as you make this difficult decision.
First off... it's not over, until officially over. So, let's see what the next beta is.
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If it's not good, then I'd do this next: "I'm inclined to add some thyroid meds, stay on the steroids and IVIG, and do another FET asap. If that doesn't work, detox and literally do the most natural FET we can."
Then, I would definitely exhaust the warranty program. If that doesn't work, you'll have your 15k to go the adoption/facilitator route.
We've also thought about going the gestational carrier route, but it's not my favorite option. Like you, the genetic link isn't that important to me, and it's still not a sure bet for success.
I'm sorry you're still on this roller coaster. (sorry had to say that!!)
That's what Davez says. ALL the time.
Now tell me more about this Buffalo Zoo you speak of... lol.
"Smudge's Story - How to Grow a Dandelion" will return soon!
The Dandelion Archive
"If dandelions were hard to grow, they would be most welcome on any lawn."
I think this is a good point and for some reason your puzzle #3 has stuck in my head for some reason, so riding out your warranty with the frozen embies sounds like it may possibly fall in the that coincidental pattern...kwim..sorry really busy at work but wanted to chime in ..hugs
Oh, its amazing.
From their site - One of our most popular is the Buffalo Zoo, which features vodka, Cointreau, sweet and sour mix, rum, cranberry juice and orange juice."
Cross over the pond and I'll buy you one!
Malakai - 8.3.09
Ezra - 12.1.11 ASD
I think if it was me and I could emotionally handle more cycling, I would definitely go through with the ivf warranty and if that didn't work you would at least have the money back to put towards adoption, and never wonder 'what if'. If you haven't done so before, it may be a great idea to do as natural an FET as you can, because like you said, maybe your body doesn't like all the extra stuff.
Best of luck with what ever you decide. In the meantime, my hubby makes a mean cosmo and homemade banana chocolate chip muffins, if I could send them electronically I would!
Oh man girl!
I wish had some advice and knew what to tell you to do. I am inspired by your strength and determination! You amaze me!!
~12/05 * 7/06 * 12/06 * 4/07 * 10/08~
"When the world says, "Give up" hope whispers, "Try one more time"
After 4yrs, 5 IUI's, 2 IVF's, 2 FET's, PGD, and 5 losses our little miracle is finally here!
I'm tired FOR you
I think you've gone way further than DH and I would be willing to go, in your shoes. But I totally "get" the NEED to have more children, and I'd have a hard time giving up, especially if DH would still be willing, and especially with that warantee program on the table.
I really have nothing to add, really. Are you seeing a therapist to talk about all this? I can't imagine the emotional toll this must all be taking on you, and on your marriage.
That effin sucks.
I guess I would talk to Dr. Sassy and he what he thinks. Without knowing what he thinks, I would do another FET (or 2 if that uses all your frosties). If that doesn't work, I would get more embryos with the last fresh cycle and I would use a GC.
Of course it's a helluva lot easier for me to say what I'd do when I'm not dealing with the heartache that you are dealing with.
You say that you do well with FETs (relatively speaking). For that reason, I'd be inclined to try a FET with all the other goodies you've been doing lately. If it doesn't work, I'd use those 'free embies' from the last fresh cycle for the GC.
The ethics don't bother me. Sounds callous, I know. But let's just say you and Davez do it like bunnies, you are making embies and they just aren't taking in your body. It's not unethical for you guys to have sex and not get babies out of it. The only difference is, you and Davez don't get babies the traditional way so you make do with what you've got and that happens to involve your embies living in petri dishes instead of floating around in your ute.
Oh Davez....Sending you a huge Margarita on the rocks with salt...
I really wish I had better advice. It seems to me like you have thought of all the medical possibilities for your recurrent losses. My gut says to use your frosties go with a GC - BUT the waranty program does thow me off a bit. If you can handle it emotionally then I am also thinking that you should just stick out the waranty program and should that not work take the 15k and put that towards GC or adoption.
That's my question too.
Other than that, my initial thought would be GC. However, since you have the warrenty program, I'd likely try a FET with the bells and whistles you suggested, because what can you lose (besides your sanity of course)? I'm guessing if you don't try, you may have the "what if" questions bouncing around for a while.
Good luck! You WILL mother others!!!
***Twin fraternal girls born at 35w6d in 12/2008***
T, that is quite a puzzle. So strange that you don't hold onto pgs after stimming. The two times I was pg before DS, I had slow, low rising betas that just stalled. The second time it bounced between two numbers (75 and 52), back and forth, for three weeks. No joke. I think I might have gone slightly insane. I had to have methotrexate to get it to stop. And then I got pg with DS and his betas were FANCY.
Perfection. I still had my issues but he was hunky dory (well hunky dory enough to live -- he had issues in utero that required some help to overcome).
In thinking back on it, I think it was the methotrexate. It stops everything. All my issues were quiet.
Have you ever taken it for your m/cs? If so, what happened afterwards?
As for the perpetually slow betas, I wonder what the deal is there? And could you override it with HCG support until you could do an ultrasound at like say 5 weeks? Though I suppose that isn't really your issue, is it? You do start pgs. What would get you over the hump?
If you're asking me what I would do, I would take that warranty program for all that its worth. And I would definitely do PGD. You need to know that these embies are in fact healthy and then that rules out one piece of this crazy puzzle.
You're a strong person to be doing all this. But you will mother others!
Honestly, if I were in your shoes the only way I would go is GC or adoption. Even if you do have more fight in you, if the end result is to have a bio kid why put yourself thrrough possible more MC's. The IVIG might help or it might not. You probably do have some sore of immune issues going on but many RE's dont' even believe in IVIG so who knows if that is even the key here. Just my opinion...
We've thought about PGD/CGH of course, but it's the expense that stops us. That, and all these docs that assure me that the way my eggs mature, plus the fert rate (100%!!!! this time!!!) and the fact a huge chunk of embies make it to day 5-6...
well, they all say they're good embies. Or mostly. If it was bunk eggs here and there, the pattern would be different, they say. My pattern is same same. (except this last FET.)
As for having the strength to keep going on? I'm ONE STUBBORN MOTHERFECKER. (in case it's not obvious). I'm mad as HELL right now, and pissed at the whole fecking situation. It went beyond saddness and "not fair" a Loooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg time ago.
Now I'm just mad, and I want my fricken kids.
NOW.
;-)
thanks again. Keep the thoughts coming. When I simmer down, they're going to mean the world to me!!!!!
::::Sip:::::
Can a GC use the frozen embryos you have?
PGD, use the fresh and frozen all up, then if need be Adoption!
Hang in there.
couldnt have said it better myself.. so sorry hun!
im here when your ready for a playdate or a drink(i know mrskolasa will join)
TTC since 2005
missed miscarriage nov 2006- 4 failed clomid cycles-
3 failed femara iui cycles-
moving on to IVF oct 2011
ER nov. 7th
tansfered 2 blasts on 11/10
lots of +hpt!!
beta #1 on 11/21= 50.4
beta #2 on11/23= 90.8
another miscarriage 12/23
moving on to Round 2 of IVF with an auto immune dx
ER 4/23-retrieved 12 eggs
ET 4/28 3 transfered
Beta #1- 356
Beta #2- 870
I also agree that I don't think PGD would be that helpful here. Although youcan't tell if a embryo is normal by looking at it ...by having such a good fert rate and lots make it to day 5 or 6 is a good sign that the embryo would be normal and your right that is another expense on top of everythign else.
Oh lordy. I'm still of the "it's not over till it's over" school and would like to see this next beta before calling it done, but I get that it seems very unlikely at this point.
You know what my view was last time...now, I'm not sure. If it was possible, I guess I'd say try and ride out the warranty, if only to get the $ back and have it to use towards a GC if need be, but I don't know if it makes sense or you can stim anymore after that ($, age, etc.) if you used all the frosties in the warranty. In which case I guess I'm leaning towards GC. I don't know how you can handle these losses over and over anymore and worry that the warranty program may just mean you having to go through this 3 more times (or however many). Sigh. This sucks and I'm thinking those 2 words you don't want to hear.
First, (((hugs))).
Second of all, I don't have time to write out a well-thought out reply (I'm sorry, overwhelmed with work), but my gut says to go with #4. I feel like that way you will have ruled everything out. Clearly you can make great embies. The problem is them sticking. So I'd give them a chance on sticking somewhere else and hope that will work.
And here, you need these:
If it were ME, I couldn't put myself through another loss. I'd be scrapping everything else and doing the GC. You have five good embies...I'd use then in a GC in a heartbeat.
I don't know how you've dealt with all this so far...you are one strong lady. Much, much stronger than me.
I'd put those embies in a GC...like tomorrow...
Even though I know you don't like/want them...it's my perogative to send them, so...
(((hugs)))
I have a FEELING that I would get a "special deal" with my doc. He's not just about the money, and let's face it, he wants me off his books. I'm bad for his stats. lol. I can SEE him saying "you've got a couple frosties left, and GC#2 looks great. You want them in her, I'll do it, and if you get a live baby, we're done with our biz agreement." While that's unconfirmed, I suspect something like that is a possibility. And would rock.
Obviously we'll pre-qualify the GC's ability to carry but if she brings us a live baby, we don't give a chit if we loose the warranty refund. Baby trumps money here, we just HATE to spend a million more to GET to him/her.
(and Rach, different clinic. I'm old. They don't give 100% of things back to old broken women, lol)
but deep down, I think, in your shoes (which I am not by any stretch of the imagination), I would probably do FETs with the remaining beautiful frosties to give them their chance, and....god forbid those didn't stick...get your money back and put it towards adoption.
sending you peace and wisdom as you make your decisions, Tracie. Along with booze. Lots of booze.
Because we're fancy like that.
Here's my thought. You've already paid for more cycles. If you can handle going through more emotionally, I would do your FET's with the 5 embryos you have. Then I would do another fresh and any FET's after that. Finally, if none of those worked, and, this is a chance that one of them might, then I would do the 3rd fresh, but, not transfer any of them into me. I would have them all frozen and then move on to a GC.
Again, this is all contingent on your being able to handle both the emotional and financial aspects of all of that (not an easy task, I know!).
Take this response with love and with a little understanding that I have for you. Obviously, I have no idea what you're going through. But, remember, I did 7 IVF's with my own eggs and my body. In my case, my problem wasn't with my body, but, with my eggs. We finally reached the point where we had to make the decision to replace the "problem" which, in my case, was the eggs, and use DE. If there is something in your body that is causing all of these losses, replacing it with a "new body" might just make all the difference in the world!
Big hugs to you!!
I love you girl. I do.
But re-read this. Is it about solving your medical mystery, or mothering others? Because part of me thinks your stubborness is keeping you from your goal.
You say you don't care about biology, or a pregnancy really. You say you just want to get on with your life and RAISE YOUR KIDS. And, holy moly, you are an awesome mom to your Ava and you are going to be to your future children - no matter how they come to you.
GC or Adopt (although in your case adoption just sounds like the surer route to me). Yes, it hurts to lose the $, but I bet all these losses hurt more.
xoxoxo