notforever I'm just curious

yankeebaby2 · January 2011

Do you think alcoholics can pull themselves by their boostraps and quit drinking?

soko987 · January 2011

Can I answer for her? Because I'm sure she thinks they can.

lmpdjc · January 2011

But of course! They just need to grow up and decide to quit. Duh, Yankee.

curlychic · January 2011

She probably thinks that crackheads can quit anytime too!

robinsokj · January 2011

Of course they can. No addict needs any sort of help. They will find super powers to overcome their addictions. Duh

yankeebaby2 · January 2011

soko987:
Can I answer for her? Because I'm sure she thinks they can.

yes, soko, you may answer for her.

BTW, did you get new underwear for christmas?

Hollywood214 · January 2011

Drama before noon..Looks like a good day to be lazy at home Wink

DrinknDerive · January 2011

IT'S A CHOICE!!!1!!

JustBrauzin · January 2011

Hollywood214:
Drama before noon..Looks like a good day to be lazy at home

Want to share some...

DaisyFull · January 2011

I stayed out of it last night, but I'm not sure I can today, especially if we're going to start talking about alcoholics.

I just want to say that a parent can love their children more than anything in the world, and still lose their battles to addiction. I thought I read last night that she felt her children would be "enough" of a reason to overcome/quit (anything?).

Sadly, it doesn't always work that way.

RedWingsFan · January 2011

Shoot, what did I miss?

I suppose I should scroll down to some older posts...

AshSchultz · January 2011

ohhh hell. I missed last night and thankfully so.. Addiction posts get me going

lmpdjc · January 2011

RedWingsFan:

Shoot, what did I miss?

I suppose I should scroll down to some older posts...

It's in my post from yesterday, my "confession".

Ciconrad · January 2011

I totally agree that smokers, alcoholics and addicts of any kind almost always need some type of help (therapy, rehab, Rx meds, etc) to quit. I don't think having children or any other motivation is usually enough to just stop cold turkey. But I do agree that not getting help...not going to rehab, not trying every avaiable option out there....to break the habit is selfish, particularly when you have kids.

And I'm the child of a recovering alcoholic father (sober for 20 years) and ex-smoker (hasn't smoked in almost 3 years) so I know a little bit about addiction, recovery and the effects on children. He needed rehab and AA to stop drinking and Chantix to stop smoking but he did everything in his power to make sure he stayed clean and sober for my brother and I. My life would look very different if he didn't stop drinking when I was 10 years old and I'm pretty sure I'd think he was a miserable, selfish SOB right now if he hadn't.

RedWingsFan · January 2011

lmpdjc:
RedWingsFan:

Shoot, what did I miss?

I suppose I should scroll down to some older posts...

It's in my post from yesterday, my "confession".

I just finished reading it.

Such an eye opener to find out that addictions can be stopped by just choosing to stop - perhaps next we should tackle world peace?

But seriously limp, I KNOW you can quit - I was never a smoker, but I struggled with an eating disorder for years and years, and it still is a daily battle. It took finding the right kind of therapy and retraining my mind (which I still have to do ALL the time) so I could avoid "falling off the wagon".

You can do it, with or without your H quitting as well.

DaisyFull · January 2011

Ciconrad:
I totally agree that smokers, alcoholics and addicts of any kind almost always need some type of help (therapy, rehab, Rx meds, etc) to quit. I don't think having children or any other motivation is usually enough to just stop cold turkey. But I do agree that not getting help...not going to rehab, not trying every avaiable option out there....to break the habit is selfish, particularly when you have kids.

And I'm the child of a recovering alcoholic father (sober for 20 years) and ex-smoker (hasn't smoked in almost 3 years) so I know a little bit about addiction, recovery and the effects on children. He needed rehab and AA to stop drinking and Chantix to stop smoking but he did everything in his power to make sure he stayed clean and sober for my brother and I. My life would look very different if he didn't stop drinking when I was 10 years old and I'm pretty sure I'd think he was a miserable, selfish SOB right now if he hadn't.

Or, he'd be dead, like mine.

After spending an entire childhood and most of my adult life involved alanon, alateen, therapy, babes, and every other addiction group in my area, I can safely say that not everyone is capable of quitting cold turkey, nor is it a reflection of their love for anyone else.

That being said, yes, if you are aware you have a problem, it can be selfish to ignore. But even treatment doesn't work for everyone. It didn't for my Father.

Lindsay Lohan, anyone?

BurnNurse · January 2011

DrinknDerive:
IT'S A CHOICE!!!1!!

Yes duh! lol

ABColeslaw · January 2011

I just finished reading yesterday's post. Her response reminded me of how I felt when I was ten years old and had no real understanding of addiction and no real perspective for how things affected other people. My mother is an addict...actually was an addict. Cocaine, alc, smoking...and other stuff I don't want to know about. I remember telling her that she was selfish, that if she cared enough about us she would just decided to change and be done with it. As I got older and watched her struggle with her disease more and more, I started to understand how powerful her addiction was and how selfish I had been to assume that it only neg affected my sister and I. It ruined my mom's life. She lost her kids and now she watches our lives from the sidelines....and she lonely and sad.

One of the reasons I never experimented with drugs...and never smoked was because I knew myself and I knew that my will power would not be strong enough to walk away if I had to. Afterall, I have no will power when it comes to food, how would I compete with addictive substances?

I don't like smoking. When you don't smoke, the smell of smoke is pretty gross. I don't understand why someone would start smoking knowing what it could do to your body....but I'm sure there are a lot of choices that I've made that people don't understand and can't relate to. And I don't judge people who are struggling with quitting. Do I think you should smoke in your kid's face? No. But do I think you're a bad/selfish parent because you smoke? NO.

SassyPanties · January 2011

The only thing I don't agree with is the implication that it's not a choice. Smoking, alcohol and drugs are all choices. That doesn't mean it's easy or it's not a daily battle, but every time you pick up a cigarette, of course you are choosing to smoke. You are choosing to put your momentary pleasure above the long-term consequences.

Anyone who has been through any kind of addiction recovery program knows that. It's one of the first things you learn.

ali_bl-nov05 · January 2011

She meant well, but went too far and ended up exposing her ignorance on the matter. I don't see why we should devote a whole post to this other than dragging the drama a little further.

Let's just learn from her mistake and move on. It's not like the rest of us are perfect.

yankeebaby2 · January 2011

ali_bl-nov05:

She meant well, but went too far and ended up exposing her ignorance on the matter. I don't see why we should devote a whole post to this other than dragging the drama a little further.

Let's just learn from her mistake and move on. It's not like the rest of us are perfect.

well since this post is not distracting anyone from solving world hunger or creating world peace, I'll devote as many posts as I want to her ignorance.

yankeebaby2 · January 2011

Brandi Bee:
Well, yankee is.

I'm confuzzled. What am I doing?

llrbg · January 2011

My first husband was an alcholic. He went through treatment (before I even knew him) and still didn't think he had a problem. It took going to the hospital with a multitude of problems before he decided that he had a drinking problem. And then he died. A week later. Leaving me, a 28 year old widow. I am pretty sure that he would have NEVER given it up. I am so glad that we did not have children. We were only married just short of three years. I knew he had a problem before we got married, but I was sure that he would change. Drinking to him was more important than anything else, even me or his health. He even told me once that if Keith Richards is still alive, he would be okay too. How stupid is that? I don't know much about the recovery part of alcholism. We never made it that far. I do know a great deal about the funeral planning part of it.

yankeebaby2 · January 2011

llrbg:
My first husband was an alcholic. He went through treatment (before I even knew him) and still didn't think he had a problem. It took going to the hospital with a multitude of problems before he decided that he had a drinking problem. And then he died. A week later. Leaving me, a 28 year old widow. I am pretty sure that he would have NEVER given it up. I am so glad that we did not have children. We were only married just short of three years. I knew he had a problem before we got married, but I was sure that he would change. Drinking to him was more important than anything else, even me or his health. He even told me once that if Keith Richards is still alive, he would be okay too. How stupid is that? I don't know much about the recovery part of alcholism. We never made it that far. I do know a great deal about the funeral planning part of it.

How traumatic for you. I'm sorry for your loss.

yankeebaby2 · January 2011

Brandi Bee:
yankeebaby2:

Brandi Bee:
Well, yankee is.

I'm confuzzled. What am I doing?

Yeah, that didn't look so smooth, lol. She said, "It isn't as though any of us are perfect." and I replied (being a smart a$$) "Well, yankee is." lol

I'm not perfect; I'm WORLDLY

DrinknDerive · January 2011

Sassy_Panties:

The only thing I don't agree with is the implication that it's not a choice. Smoking, alcohol and drugs are all choices. That doesn't mean it's easy or it's not a daily battle, but every time you pick up a cigarette, of course you are choosing to smoke. You are choosing to put your momentary pleasure above the long-term consequences.

Anyone who has been through any kind of addiction recovery program knows that. It's one of the first things you learn.

She oversimplified addiction. People likening substance abuse to any other choice is a joke. There's a difference between giving into a craving for another fattening hamburger and smoking another cigarette. Addicts have a biological dependence on the substance and there are nasty consequences to quitting (I'm in no way justifying not quitting).

ali_bl-nov05 · January 2011

llrbg:
My first husband was an alcholic. He went through treatment (before I even knew him) and still didn't think he had a problem. It took going to the hospital with a multitude of problems before he decided that he had a drinking problem. And then he died. A week later. Leaving me, a 28 year old widow. I am pretty sure that he would have NEVER given it up. I am so glad that we did not have children. We were only married just short of three years. I knew he had a problem before we got married, but I was sure that he would change. Drinking to him was more important than anything else, even me or his health. He even told me once that if Keith Richards is still alive, he would be okay too. How stupid is that? I don't know much about the recovery part of alcholism. We never made it that far. I do know a great deal about the funeral planning part of it.

I'm so sorry.

ali_bl-nov05 · January 2011

yankeebaby2:
ali_bl-nov05:

She meant well, but went too far and ended up exposing her ignorance on the matter. I don't see why we should devote a whole post to this other than dragging the drama a little further.

Let's just learn from her mistake and move on. It's not like the rest of us are perfect.

well since this post is not distracting anyone from solving world hunger or creating world peace, I'll devote as many posts as I want to her ignorance.

That's your prerrogative, just as it is mine to have an opinion about it. I'm not trying to flame you.

DrinknDerive · January 2011

ali_bl-nov05:
yankeebaby2:
ali_bl-nov05:

She meant well, but went too far and ended up exposing her ignorance on the matter. I don't see why we should devote a whole post to this other than dragging the drama a little further.

Let's just learn from her mistake and move on. It's not like the rest of us are perfect.

well since this post is not distracting anyone from solving world hunger or creating world peace, I'll devote as many posts as I want to her ignorance.

That's your prerrogative, just as it is mine to have an opinion about it. I'm not trying to flame you.

What better way is there to spend your day than purging the world of ignorance one bumpie at a time?

llrbg · January 2011

yankeebaby2:

llrbg:
My first husband was an alcholic. He went through treatment (before I even knew him) and still didn't think he had a problem. It took going to the hospital with a multitude of problems before he decided that he had a drinking problem. And then he died. A week later. Leaving me, a 28 year old widow. I am pretty sure that he would have NEVER given it up. I am so glad that we did not have children. We were only married just short of three years. I knew he had a problem before we got married, but I was sure that he would change. Drinking to him was more important than anything else, even me or his health. He even told me once that if Keith Richards is still alive, he would be okay too. How stupid is that? I don't know much about the recovery part of alcholism. We never made it that far. I do know a great deal about the funeral planning part of it.

How traumatic for you. I'm sorry for your loss.

Thank you. I know I didn't really contribute to the conversation, but it was nice to get that out. It has been 6 years and I now have a wonderful DH whose paycheck goes to the bank and not the bar, two beautiful children and nice happy life.

soko987 · January 2011

DrinknDerive:
Sassy_Panties:

The only thing I don't agree with is the implication that it's not a choice. Smoking, alcohol and drugs are all choices. That doesn't mean it's easy or it's not a daily battle, but every time you pick up a cigarette, of course you are choosing to smoke. You are choosing to put your momentary pleasure above the long-term consequences.

Anyone who has been through any kind of addiction recovery program knows that. It's one of the first things you learn.

She oversimplified addiction. People likening substance abuse to any other choice is a joke. There's a difference between giving into a craving for another fattening hamburger and smoking another cigarette. Addicts have a biological dependence on the substance and there are nasty consequences to quitting (I'm in no way justifying not quitting).

In Limpy's OP, I kind of drew that comparison, but I did it to illustrate that there things we do everyday that can harm our bodies. People can become addicted to habits, not just physically. If the judgy people would just step back and take a look at the things they do to themselves that might not be so healthy, and how hard it would be to break that psychological habit, then maybe they could understand why it is INCREDIBLY hard to break a habit that is physically addicting as well.

And Yankee, I did not get new undies for Christmas. However, the underwear I'm currently wearing is only about 5 years old, so that's an improvement.

soko987 · January 2011

DrinknDerive:
Sassy_Panties:

The only thing I don't agree with is the implication that it's not a choice. Smoking, alcohol and drugs are all choices. That doesn't mean it's easy or it's not a daily battle, but every time you pick up a cigarette, of course you are choosing to smoke. You are choosing to put your momentary pleasure above the long-term consequences.

Anyone who has been through any kind of addiction recovery program knows that. It's one of the first things you learn.

She oversimplified addiction. People likening substance abuse to any other choice is a joke. There's a difference between giving into a craving for another fattening hamburger and smoking another cigarette. Addicts have a biological dependence on the substance and there are nasty consequences to quitting (I'm in no way justifying not quitting).

In Limpy's OP, I kind of drew that comparison, but I did it to illustrate that there things we do everyday that can harm our bodies. People can become addicted to habits, not just physically. If the judgy people would just step back and take a look at the things they do to themselves that might not be so healthy, and how hard it would be to break that psychological habit, then maybe they could understand why it is INCREDIBLY hard to break a habit that is physically addicting as well.

And Yankee, I did not get new undies for Christmas. However, the underwear I'm currently wearing is only about 5 years old, so that's an improvement.

emily0829 · January 2011

Sassy_Panties:

The only thing I don't agree with is the implication that it's not a choice. Smoking, alcohol and drugs are all choices. That doesn't mean it's easy or it's not a daily battle, but every time you pick up a cigarette, of course you are choosing to smoke. You are choosing to put your momentary pleasure above the long-term consequences.

Anyone who has been through any kind of addiction recovery program knows that. It's one of the first things you learn.

Really? Where? AA and NA both work the 12 Step Program, which teaches you in the very beginning that you are powerless to your addiction, and you need help to maintain your life. They don't say "You're powerless but you still make the decision so you suck."

A for effort, though.

potluckbride · January 2011

emily0829:
Sassy_Panties:

The only thing I don't agree with is the implication that it's not a choice. Smoking, alcohol and drugs are all choices. That doesn't mean it's easy or it's not a daily battle, but every time you pick up a cigarette, of course you are choosing to smoke. You are choosing to put your momentary pleasure above the long-term consequences.

Anyone who has been through any kind of addiction recovery program knows that. It's one of the first things you learn.

Really? Where? AA and NA both work the 12 Step Program, which teaches you in the very beginning that you are powerless to your addiction, and you need help to maintain your life. They don't say "You're powerless but you still make the decision so you suck."

A for effort, though.

I don't know if she means hitting rock bottom but an addict is the only one who can make the decision to quit. If he or she is not ready, its not going to happen. In that sense, it is absolutely the decision of the addict to quit.

(My mom is a recovering alcoholic. She hit rock bottom when she lost custody of my when I was 10).

notforever · January 2011

ooooh yankee, you're special.

you've taken so many things out of context. i'm so done with fighting with you.

i'm not ignorant about this. i've been through it with loved ones before. it is THEIR choice to quit. and i'm sorry but it is as "simple" as that. if someone has an addiction and they really truly want to quit, they will find the means necessary to quit. that's all i was saying.

are you bored? i can't believe how you're dragging this on.

soko987 · January 2011

notforever:

ooooh yankee, you're special.

you've taken so many things out of context. i'm so done with fighting with you.

i'm not ignorant about this. i've been through it with loved ones before. it is THEIR choice to quit. and i'm sorry but it is as "simple" as that. if someone has an addiction and they really truly want to quit, they will find the means necessary to quit. that's all i was saying.

are you bored? i can't believe how you're dragging this on.

Actually, this is what you said:

i'm sorry but grow up, grab a brain and quit. isn't being around for your little one motivation enough?

And it's not so much what you said ( which, I believe, was a gross oversimplification of a complex problem), but how you said it. The OP made it clear that she felt pretty helpless and was interested in quitting. Nearly everyone who responded offered support and encouragement. You offered judgment and a wagging finger.

notforever · January 2011

soko OP said "flame me. i smoke."

soko987 · January 2011

notforever:
soko OP said "flame me. i smoke."

And that you did. I guess I can't argue with that.

BTW, I just noticed the pun. Flame? Smoke? Get it? ::rimshot::

notforever · January 2011

clever, i truly do enjoy a good pun

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