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heatherlane
member
So, It's Not Thursday, but...BOOM
heatherlane
member
I don't care if you flame me for this, but I have a feeling this is probably a very Unpopular Opinion. I read an article in the newspaper this weekend about an inmate who was suing our prison system b/c he was "raped" by a guard. Now, I do believe in his right to sue, and hope he wins, as it clearly states in our law that a correctional officer is never to engage in ANY kind of sexual behaviour, consentual or otherwise, with an inmate. This is how it should be.
However, I could give two flipping flips about prison rape/harrassment in general. Prison should be a DETERRENT, and it's just not in America. If prison were an awful, horrible, terrifying place to go, and would-be criminals knew it, then the overcrowding rates would drop.
As it is, prison provides a home, hot meals, and sometimes even friendship to people, with little to no actual consequence for their actions.
I understand that I am encapsulating this entire issue into a teeny small package, and that obviously there should be other rehabilitative efforts made to small-time criminals to try to help them turn their lives around before they are just cycled back into the system.
But I still could care less if someone convicted of rape gets picked on in a "federal blank-me-in-the-a$$" prison. (Not meant to be gross, it's a line from Office Space.)
And that's my flammable opinion this week.
Um, yeah. The Bump be too crazy for pics of my kid.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: So, It's Not Thursday, but...BOOM
Where ya been today Heather?
As it is, prison provides a home, hot meals, and sometimes even friendship to people, with little to no actual consequence for their actions.
Well I tend to think that HIV is probably rampant in jails/prisons b/c of the rapes that happen and I consider that to be a pretty bad consequence. If a rapist gets raped it doesn't seem as bad but what about my idiot brother who got arrested for selling pot while in college and is probably going to jail? Yeah I think being raped is a pretty bad consequence for that, especially since he might really be getting a death sentence b/c of it.
BFP #2: 11/16/11: M/C at 7 weeks
BFP #3: 03/24/12: C/P 03/28/12
BFP #4: 04/26/12: please be our baby
Hmmm, how to word this....
Everyone deserves to have their basic needs met. Food, shelter, medical care, etc. Even rapists. What I don't like is the level at which these needs are met. My brother is a CO and the prisoners at his prison have flat screen TVs to watch. Like, more expensive than my old clunker TV. Who pays for those? Taxpayers!
So while I think the needs should be met, I don't think there should be extras. I dont agree with inmates getting free educations - I have to scrimp and save for mine.
Bottom line though is that everyone has the right to feel safe. Even inmates. How horrible for that man to be raped by a person 'in charge'.
I get what your saying, I believe in 'an eye for an eye' as well. But on the other hand, what if the rapist is sorry for what they done? What if they do want to change? Does the guard still have the right to do whatever they please to prisoners because they broke a law? Not flaming you, just sayin'.
And as far as how prisons 'provide a home, hot meals, friendship, etc.', you should check out Arizona's prisons.. they have these things called Tent Cities. When it is 110 degrees out here in the desert, they'll literally make you stay in it, when no water, nothing, just make you sit in a tent for hours, if not, days on end. Do they deserve it? Sure, but it's not a pretty prison system here.
As it is, prison provides a home, hot meals, and sometimes even friendship to people, with little to no actual consequence for their actions
Prison is not this cozy little place you describe where people can find their bff and live carefree without any consequences. I'm seriously baffled as to why you would think prison is anything like your description. Aside from that, prison is not filled with only horrible, violent murderers and rapists. Believe it or not there are some innocent people in there or some people who bought some weed and couldn't afford bail etc etc etc. And BTW just because someone is in jail for whatever horrible crime does not mean it's OK for them to be raped or violated in any way.
I think that Heather is saying that not every person in prison gets what they deserve. Yeah, some may get raped or get HIV, however, it's not a proven fact that every.single.person in prison will get or has HIV. Those who don't get it may never have to suffer real consequences for their actions. And I'm sorry, but if some bastaard raped my child and was in prison for it, I wouldn't give two sh!ts if he got HIV or not.
I also think there is a difference between "prison" and "jail." It sounds like your brother may be in jail for something that is considered to be a minor crime. He's not going to be put in prison where he will spend his entire life.. so comparing your brother's scenario to what Heather is trying to say is totally different, IMO.
That's my point, I don't want a pretty prison system. I want people to be scared sh!tless before they commit a crime and *hopefully* say to themselves "is this really worth the possibility of me having to live in a tent in 100 degree weather and get sexually assaulted?"
Also, to PP, I think pot should be legal anyway, so sorry about your brother.
I watch a lot of Denzel Washington movies.
LOL, you crack me up heatherlane.. he does do a lot of movies with that topic, doesn't he? Oh, and my condom friend thanks you BTW.
Bahaha-haha.
What's that guys name....Joe Arpaio in Arizona... google him, he makes the inmates wear pink, they don't get coffee or TV or air conditioning... I think more prisons should be run like this !
You do the crime to pay the price.....
This posts reminds me a lot of the anti-welfare posts with the rampant judgment and misinformation and grosses me out as much as those posts do. Prison sucks, especially for violent/sexual offenders, who I assume are the ones you want to dehumanize. It's not a country club, and most people know that. Guess what? They commit crimes ANYWAY. Prison as a deterrent DOES NOT WORK. It doesn't work well as a rehabilitation, either, as currently run, but deterrence is slim to none for sexual offenders who are acting on a sick impulse and not considering consequences, crimes of passion, gang violence, whatever. I don't believe for a second that if prison were less "cushy" there would be lower crime rates.
Lots of people are in prison for long sentences for nonviolent drug offenses under our current laws. Do they deserve to be raped? Do they lose their basic rights as a human? Does anyone? I feel like we, as a society, should be BETTER than the people who mess up and do gross things, not EQUAL TO. Prisoners, even the truly heinous ones (who are NOT the majority of people in prison) are people, and as such in America are deserving of some level of compassion and basic dignity.
that is just jail.
i know a few people who have gone to prison and they did like it...it kept them sober, gave them training and education, and they did not have to worry about money. they worked out, read books, etc.
but no one likes jail (i'm in arizona w/ mr. joe). we have tent city, and i hear its pretty bad. but its temporary, i dont think anyone stays in jail for that long. and you get to leave to go to work.
I don't give a sh** if a rapist is raped or if he gets HIV or whatever, but I also think "worst" prisons won't keep people away form comitiing crimes of any nature, the same as dead penalty.
Besides, not all people in prison are rapist or murderers, or even criminals. My dad had a friend who found a dead homeless, he had been hit by a car. He called the police and they took him to prison as a suspect, just for one night. That nigth he was raped.
Thanks. We watched that Pelham 123 movie the other night (it was on Encore). Kind of a crappy movie, but I love heist/crime drama/thriller movies like that even when they are crappy and kind of unbelievable.
In all honesty, I can't speak to other states' prisons, but I have people who are close who work/have worked as CO's as well as in administration in our prisons. So I have an idea of what goes on here, and I do not think ours are much of a deterrent. I fully support a combo of deterrent/rehab services for petty criminals. We just seem to have no rehab services combined with easygoing prisons, which sets our area up for overcrowding and lots of small time non-violent criminals, who eventually escalate their behaviour and become violent criminals as they make connections in prison and continue their downward slide into the wrong crowd.
That was a joke, obviously.
All of this. Do some reading on criminal justice, it's an eye-opener. Consequences really only act as a deterrent if they are immediate. (Think getting your hand chopped off as soon as you're caught stealing. Anyone watching says, "whoa, maybe that's not such a great idea.") Our system lets so much time elapse between arrest, prosecution, conviction and incarceration that it's pretty much worthless to threaten people with prison. It seems far too remote. If our country spent half the money on crime prevention that we spend on prosecuting/housing offenders, we'd have a noticeably lower crime rate.
WOW, just WOW.
An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind.
It saddens me greatly to see how many people are indifferent, if not encouraging, to such violence and harm towards entire populations of people (in this case prisoners). I'm not saying prison should be a country club, but regardless of their crimes they are still humans. Some of them are good people who've made mistakes, some of them are innocent, and yes, some of them are bad people who deserve the punishment that they are sentenced with. But none of them deserve to be raped, beaten, starved, or left in the cold because of their past deeds. To feel such malice towards people you don't know makes me wonder if we as a specie are really worth everything this planet goes through to support us (oh, wait, I know we're not).
Mes Petit Choux
I can't go back to yesterday - because I was a different person then. ~ Alice
Not being raped is a basic human right that should be granted to every human being. I'm pretty sure Jesus would agree.
I'm all for people being and feeling safe. But to think of it as a right is not realistic. I don't think any prisoner deserves to be raped, no matter what they did to land them in prison.
Absolutely. Hence the "unpopular" part of my opinion.
I used to have a friend whose argument for every hot button topic was "population control". She would say there are way too many people in this world. Death penalty? Check. Abortion? Check. Prostitution and drugs legalized? Check and check. I think she has a "survival of the fittest" kind of mentality.
I have more of a "be free and allow others to be free to make their own choices" mentality. However, when it comes to abiding by the laws already in place, I just feel that it's justified to have some of your rights diminished when you break them.
Again, let me clarify that my point was not that I think it should be ok for guards to rape prisoners or to stand idly by while prisoners rape other prisoners. I just think that prison is not a deterrent.
Trust me, I recognize that it's not the only thing flawed in our criminal justice system.
I've read this whole thread and HL I am really confused as to what your point is.
I would like to add to the discussion that there are people that are falsely convicted - what about them? Also, there are a sh!t ton of people in prison on BS drug charges mostly because they can't afford decent lawyers. Does that change your opinion (even though I don't quite know what it is)?
Rights are not necessarily realistic. They are aspirational. Sometimes we achieve universal protection and enjoyment of them; sometime we do not. This does not make them any less of a right.
Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person."
https://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/
Trust me, I recognize that there is a lot of our criminal justice system that just doesn't seem to bring real "justice" to me, but I am not someone who knows where to begin to fix it.
I just think that prison should be a hard place that discourages people from ever wanting to do anything to get themselves back in that environment. And I think that it's not, currently.
Really, sam? The most? How would you suggest I title it?
Okay now I see what you are saying. I guess I've never been to a prison so I have no idea what the quality of life there is - but I have to say I find it hard to believe that it is that great.
I disagree with this on so many levels. "Regardless of their crimes they're still humans?" Let's not forget that while there are certainly criminals in prison on stupid bogus drug charges, there are also people who are basically animals that have done incomprehensible, heinous things. And I completely disagree that they don't deserve harsher punishments then they get in most cases. For the ridiculous pain and suffering they have caused their victims and their families, I for one, have little sympathy for them.
Being cold or hungry or a little uncomfortable in their prison cell pales in comparison to some of the gruesome things some felons have done to their victims.
And it is a popular misconception that there are scores of innocents in the prison system. Are their innocent people who have been convicted? Of course. It is extraordinarily rare for that to happen, although when it does, it is a big deal and receives tons of news coverage (as it should).
I DO NOT agree that it's okay for rape and other things to take place in prison. That is wrong on a whole new level and I don't think prisoners deserve treatment like that by any means. But I do agree that prison sentences are a cake-walk and poor deterrent to crime.
Right now things are out of control in most jails because the time from arrest to trial takes so long that our jails are ridiculously overcrowded and can't be staffed properly. Our system needs some major overhauling if we're going to prevent bad things from happening in jails and prisons.
I agree with you yet again TK
Can I let you just write my posts from now on?
Kit, THIS is what I was trying to say.
Tomkat just did a better job explaining it.
TK does have a way with words.
I agree that
1. Prison is a shiitty deterrent to crime.
2. The system needs a major overhaul.
3. Cookies are awesome.
I am willing to agree on all of those points.
Now I have to go make a chocolate chess pie for "work" tomorrow. (It's a regional holiday meeting of all the people in my position. Basically, a potluck and dirty santa half day that we all get paid for.)
Another problem we have is that we basically only have one criminal sentence in this country - PRISON.
Whether you commit fraud, get convicted of selling drugs, or rape and murder someone, you're going to do prison time in some way or fashion. And unfortunately, a lot of these people get lumped into the same prison's because it's just "where they have room at the time." Non-violent criminals receive the same punishment (but less time) than violent criminals.
Case in point, my husband studied a case in one of his training seminars about a man who commited identity theft, fraud and forgery and was supposed to go to a minimum security prison to serve his time. But they only had enough room at a maximum security prison so this tiny nerdy guy with no previous criminal record was lumped in with rapists and violent murderers. He was basically eaten alive.
So eventually he joined a gang, got tattooes put all over his body and ended up murdering another inmate who had it in for him. Prison turned him into something he wasn't.
We are moving in the right direction with more rehabilitation programs, but part of our problem is that prison often perpetuates the gang behaviors and violent crime between inmates so they can never fully rehabilitate. I don't have the solutions but it's definitely concerning and a huge problem.