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Parenting
Any thoughts on the TSA body scans/pat downs?
I don't get the hype about it. I always get extra attention from TSA when I fly, so it's business as usual with that. We are flying to TX next week and I just hope my boobs look perky if I go through a body scan.
I'm not about to protest it as long as it get us safely to our location.
Audrey Elizabeth 11-11-06
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Any thoughts on the TSA body scans/pat downs?
Not a fan. Even moreso not a fan after I saw this:
You take my ovaries, I take your yarns.
THIS!
In a SUV, I presume.
LOL
You take my ovaries, I take your yarns.
HA!
LOL yes because we all know that is safer than flying
lol - I think you missed the point. No one is groping my crotch or taking porno pics of me if I travel by car.
At least not yet.
**zipping up flamesuit**
The me 10 years ago would have said hell no to that statement. Now, I agree.
whatever. I don't mind the scan.
However, when I'm carrying an infant, I have to have the pat down instead and I'm not so crazy about that.
One thing that I find ridiculous is that luggage isn't screened. If someone really wanted to get an explosive aboard, it would be fairly easy.
Some don't want their kids exposed to radiation on the full body scanners. But they won't "pat down" a child younger than 12, since it is basically a huge invasion of privacy. So who is to stop a 'bomber' from planting explosives on a young child? It just doesn't make sense.
I don't look forward to it, but I don't really care one way or the other.
As for profiling, I get that there is, thus far, a 'standard' image of your garden variety airplane terrorist, but I think we'd be remiss to just profile that image. I honestly think sometimes that 9/11 was the best thing that could have happened for the Ted Kazinski's and Timothy McVeighs of this world--no one thinks of a terrorist looking just like your average white American anymore. If we profiled people of Arab descent only for screenings, I wonder how long it would be before a lunatic white guy strapped himself up with bombs and got on a plane.
Eh, I don't mind either.
I really think we need to do what other countries do. I was watching Meet the Press or some other news show today and they were discussing how Israel offered to screening training after 9/11, but we refused. I really wish we had taken them up on that offer...
I totally agree about the profiling thing even though the crazy liberal side of me screams noooo!
But, the random thing is totally worthless and a joke. A friend of mine just flew this weekend- she's a single mom with a 4 y/o and 2 y/o twins. I don't know the exact details, but I did hear that she got specially selected for extra security causing her and the kids to be bumped from their flight for being late, got sent to another airport where they were stuck for the night (was supposed to be a nonstop flight) and didn't get to their destination until the next day! She said the airline was absolutely no help. Can you imagine that happening to you if you were traveling alone with three small rambunctious boys? And please tell me how on earth delaying her like that provided any extra security to anyone else traveling? Seriously. What a waste of time/resources.
I agree. Whatever safety precautions can be taken to ensure safety for me, my loved ones, and strangers, the better.
Ok, THAT wouldpiss me off. To no end. Scan me all you want. Pat me down. Get a feel, if you'd like. I could not care less. But delay my travels? NO! And with three small children....oh hell no!
Another thing about what other countries do-I believe it is Israel also that interviews EVERYONE. The total time from check in to plane? 20 minutes, they say.
true, but consider it's size. Israel is the size of New Hampshire; its air traffic industry is remarkably smaller than ours, so I'd imagine its way easier to manage. Also they've been dealing w/ terrorism threats for so much longer than us, I'm not surprised they're light-years ahead of us in terms of safety.
I'm against it.
I think it's unconstitutional, I think it's expensive (and not worth it because of #4), I think it's potentially dangerous and the biggie: I think it doesn't do a damn thing to make us safer.
FWIW, Israel doesn't use the things from what I understand. And I think they have to be pretty secure. We should take lessons from them.
Can you explain how it's unconstitutional. I never get to watch a full news segment. My logical thinking is that when we fly it's a privilege and have to abide by their rules. I am missing something in the picture/explanation.
I think that if terrorists want to get something on a plane they will and these extra security measures are not going to prevent them. So now we are all strip searched in order to fly, they'll start carrying things in their body cavities or strapping them to an under 12 year old who is exempt from the enhanced pat down. It may take a little more time while they devise a new plan, but in the end if they really want to, I don't doubt the terrorists will find a way around these heightened security measures. I think it's pretty telling that Israel, which is reputed to have the best airport security in the world, has said those scanners are not a terribly effective security measure (heard this on the radio yesterday) and they have opted not to implement them based on a cost/benefit analysis. I think there are far more effective ways to deter attacks that won't infringe on the rights of others to avoid virtual or actual strip searches. I think trained people questioning passengers would be far more effective than half trained TSA employees copping a feel of everyone.
I also feel like people being willing to undergo this level of intrusion in order to fly means the terrorists are winning. We are clearly living in fear to think this is acceptable.
Finally, I would love to see some security on public transit and bridges and tunnels before putting more resources in airline safety. I live in Manhattan, frequent the city bus and subway systems and cross the George Washington Bridge at least once a week. Never, in 3 years of living here, have I been stopped, searched, had a bag looked in, had my car checked out, etc. I've often thought, while sitting stopped dead in traffic on the GW Bridge or going through one of the tunnels, how easy it would be to attack one or all of the bridges/tunnels out of Manhattan.
I wasn't planning on flying any time soon, so it won't really affect me one way or the other. It certainly won't stop DH from getting on a plane to present his research at national conferences since it's necessary to move forward in his career. But, I'm curious about the true radiation level emitted and whether there could be more significant health implications they aren't admitting or aware of.
Eclaires - Are you talking about reasonable search and seizure?
MH and I have had this discussion. He think's the scans are pushing it.
here's a post about it that I mostly agree with. It's in response to someone who posted about not caring about it and said she served in the military (just for some context).
this x100000000000000000000
We should, which is why I don't understand why we turned their offer for help down.
I love the Nest. Particularly the intelligen women that frequent this board. Swimbikepuke's post is really thought provoking.
And I giggle because I read it in the best Colonel Jessup voice I could conjure up!
Personally, I think the terrorists are sitting in their caves (or wherever they hang out avoiding capture and plotting) laughing their muthaf*ckin asses off at us.
We're chasing our tails trying to make planes more secure/safe while they've probably moved onto some other freaking target and in the end, they've accomplished their goal because we're living in terror of them when it comes to flying. And then we'll live in terror trying to keep ourselves safe from whatever the next type of target is once they attack it.
Everything we do seems to be so freaking REACTIVE vs. PROACTIVE. And it makes me crazed.
What does Israel do? I'm curious.
And SBP's post is thought-provoking. I'm not going to pretend that I am remotely educated on the subject (the big Darvocet recall, however? Feel free to ask me about that one). I don't fly enough to where it's going to be an issue for me personally. But I can see both sides.
You take my ovaries, I take your yarns.
Israel, and correct me if I'm wrong, Yodajo, makes sure they speak/interview every single person who comes through the airport to get on a plane, but it doesn't take any longer than 20 minutes to get to your gate/on the plane, supposedly.
I think it's the same type of theory as shoplifting - you deter people by letting them know you see/notice them, plus the added benefit of forcing everyone to talk to an official lets you see if anyone is acting particularly nervous.
I mean, for me, it bugs me that it's unconstitutional (IMO), but on top of that, it's part of the whole proactive vs. reactive thing we've got going on and I really just don't think it's effective.
Also, I think Bubbly makes a good point. Most people AREN'T educated on the subject..and therefore, they think they are fine with it citing the fact that "if it keeps them safe from terrorists/danger, they are ok with it." I'm not saying this isn't a logical argument, but I am saying that I think if more people took the time to look into this issue, many more would NOT be fine with it. There are very many good arguments as to why it's not ok...many of which have already been posted.
Israel profiles the *** out of everyone coming and going.
Last I checked, no one has to fly commercially. There are a lot of rules about flying as a passenger that are "protected" in the constitution. You can be arrested for using your freedom of speech for example on a plane, if you fail to follow the captains instructions to sit down and shut up. It is a private business, not a way to exercise your freedom.
I agree with the private business thing. Sort of like you are going into a store and have to abide by their rules. Is it stated anywhere that you agree to the search if you purchase a ticket/intend to fly? It might be.
I don't know how much safer it will really keep us. And although I have no modesty after giving birth 3x, if they really want to look, go ahead. It will make me more uncomfortable that they can see my daughter go through when she is a teenager.
But I really can't see that they invented this machine or want to use it because they are somehow getting off on it. They are TRYING to make us safer. I guess motive makes the difference for me.