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Natural Birth
About *that* post...
I almost wasnt gonna write this cuz the subject has gotten so far out of hand that everyone's sick of it. BUT... i realized i want to say this:
To those who felt offended or hurt by what i said, I sincerely apologize. That definitely was not my intent, i only wished to convey my surprise at meeting someone with such a rare situation, and just wanted to share it.
To those who took offense at things i did not say, I want to say that i feel for you, that your life experiences have been so hard that they have clouded your vision and you feel offense where it was not said nor intended.
I have learned something from this! Or shall i say i have been reinforced in my knowledge that it is not courtesy to ask someone how they made their kids. Kids are a blessing no matter how they get started. I am convinced that if you looked hard enough you could find people who dont like enough words that we could all justify never speaking again! The key is to learn which words tend to bug certain groups of people and try to be sensitive. I will never ask any woman if her children were conceived "spontaneously", as I would never want to be asked such and clearly from the responses i am not alone in this. If i am ever close enough to a MoM that it matters, im sure she will tell me in her own words when she wants to.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: About *that* post...
Your original post was much less offensive than the debate that followed it, which you participated in. Even if offense was not intended, you and others refused to see why it would be offensive to someone. Your pitying non-apology above doesn't help, IMO.
Now, please just drop it. I have tried to stay out of it but a few people are making me be embarassed to be associated with this board.
Agreed. The ignorance and vitriol in that thread has drastically damaged my perception of some people on this board.
http://oi62.tinypic.com/2w73hq9.jpg
I can honestly say that this post "offends" me more than the original, which I did feel was just you not being aware of improper language.
You should just let it go, and not continue to post backhanded apologies and insults. You need to accept that different people will feel differently about different things. It has nothing to do with "clouded vision". Offense can be taken whether intended or not. And if you were sorry, you should just say it and leave it at that.
"Smudge's Story - How to Grow a Dandelion" will return soon!
The Dandelion Archive
"If dandelions were hard to grow, they would be most welcome on any lawn."
Oh FFS. Your OP was never really the issue--it was how you handled it when someone suggested to you that a different term would be better. You just argued with everyone and said that women with infertility--something you apparently have not had to face--should be grateful.
And now you are telling people that their vision is clouded and you feel sorry for them, and you think this constitutes an apology? Just stop.
I, too, stayed out of the original thread because I just didn't feel that I had anything more constructive to add than what was already said.
But.... I really don't like non-apologies. Maybe you should have just left it alone???
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
I do not understand why you would feel the need to post this. You are coming off as extremely self-centered, FYI.
My twins are not "natural" but nothing about my obstetric history has been. Oh well I got over that a long time ago. I do not get upset over that question (which as other MoM have said we do get asked daily); it just gets old.
I think you should probably just stop while you are ahead because you're only making yourself look worse. My vision is not clouded. It's crystal clear with the reality that not everyone has easy pregnancies on the first (or second or third of fourth) try. People with clouded vision are those who cannot see that achieving pregnancy can be difficult and some couples have to go to great lengths to have just one child. With that journey comes some sensitivity to certain words for some people.
I'm a natural birth board nightmare. I'm a doctor who had a c-section of my twins who were conceived with medication. None of which was by choice but the end result is my sweet set of babies that I'd never give up.
Welp, I for one am always happy when an idiot shows herself to be an idiot. That way I don't have to waste time wondering.
OP, I'm sorry if you get offended that I'm calling you an idiot. I really, honestly feel sorry for you for your lack of life experience and empathy that make you incapable of using your brain.
I'm not a regular on this board and I also believe that the topic should be dropped but there is something I really don't understand. Who are these people that ask others how their children were conceived and where did they learn their social etiquette? How does a conversation go from "your babies are adorable" to "how did you get them?" Maybe people don't know the proper words for it because the people that ask the questions are far from proper, polite, or sensitive in any way.
Sorry... I just don't get it and I really feel for MoMs that are constantly asked insensitive questions from ignorant people. Had to get that off my chest. Rant done.
Um...didn't your mother ever teach you how to make a real apology? Cause this ain't it, sweetheart. I feel for you, that your mind would be so clouded you'd think this was an appropriate way to bring closure to the situation.
You'd be amazed. Even being pregnant with twins you start fielding the question of how they were conceived. It's insane what people ask. I always want to say Nunya....as in Nunya biznazz.
You would be shocked the things people say. "Did she come out first? Her head is pretty big, did you have a c-section?" "Where did you deliver?" "How pre-mature were they?" "Do twins run in your family? Your side or your husband's? I thought they skip a generation..." "Twins?" "What are their names?" "They're big! What did they weigh at birth?" "How old are they?" "God bless you!" "I don't know how you do it! How DO you do it?"
It never ends. People think they can say whatever they want.
(rubs eyes).
Nope, my vision is still blurred I guess. Must be those damn infertility struggles bothering me again!
As someone who had trouble conceiving in general (L&L are 'natural' though), I find the whole thing ridiculous.
Don't speak about something, and your opinion, without going through it. You just look ignorant and like a loser.
This is so, so true....all these questions while they look at you like you have ten heads.
The first question is always about fertility drugs. I don't get it.
Lanie!!!!!!! Where the heck have you been? I miss the tar out of you woman!!!! If I could give you a smooch through the computer, I would right now! lol-
worst.apology.ever.
You just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper...well done.
First off, your apology is just embarrassing. Second, after all that was said on your OP you think the only lesson was that you shouldn't ask a MoM how her babies were conceived? Did you even read the responses?
This is the saddest excuse for an apology.
Your OP was just an unfortunate choice of words, which you could've easily apologized for when corrected. It was your (and others) follow-up contributions to the conversation that became offensive.
I doubt you'll even absorb this and the pps here, as you clearly didn't absorb any constructive feedback in the original thread.
I feel bad for you...you silly silly person.
what about the feedback was constructive?
Constructive would have been
"Just so you know, "natural" twins/triplets etc, are usually referred to as "spontaneous.""
Instead of
waaaah that's offensive.
what about the feedback was constructive?
Constructive would have been
"Just so you know, "natural" twins/triplets etc, are usually referred to as "spontaneous.""
Instead of
waaaah that's offensive.
Why did I always have this stereotype that hippies were empathetic souls?
The very first reponse said that the twins were cool, but the word 'natural' is offensive to some. Spontaneous is the correct term. (obviously this is not exactly what was said, but pretty much it)
What is not constructive about that first response?
meh, she is a "wanna-be"
You make a very valid point.
Good God, what is wrong with you?
I didn't always know that asking a person if their multiples were "natural." Once I became aware that it's offensive and annoying to others, I stopped doing it. It's as simple as that.
See, I wasn't offended by the OP, you didn't know (how could you?), no big deal. I'm offended that you keep posting crap like this that insinuates we have no right to be offended.
But the more you say, the more I feel karma chasing you down...maybe you will get it some day.
Did you really ever think it WAS courtesy to ask people how they made their kids?
I agree with you on a one level, but at the same time what i said aparently felt hurtful to a few moms who are sensitive in this area, so that is the reason for my apology. I do care, contrary to the apparent beliefs of some.
And FYI to the other PP's, If you actually read what i wrote you might notice that i only used the word apology once, not twice. I did apologize as i feel i needed to, and i did express empathy (not apology) where i felt appropriate. I know there are certain subjects where my vision is clouded and i tend to get offended about something related but not the actual content of what is being said, so on that level i understand. Take it or leave it as you wish.
My Mom, whom i love and respect deeply, taught me to say what i mean to the best of my ability, and to accept that sometimes things are misunderstood because written words can have so many interpretations, so to be ready to explain my intent. Sometimes i will say things not everyone likes... sometimes i will find out that other people view certain things differently than i do, as in this case. My desire in being on this board is to learn things i didn't know before (which i have.. A LOT!), and to share my experiences where it may benefit other moms. I have enjoyed this very much and will continue to do so.
I do not wish to beat a dead horse, and i think many feel the same, so i don't expect any further comments or to respond again. I hope that if anyone still doesn't like me you can either agree to disagree or ignore me, or PM me if you wish. Im not a monster, i'm just honest about what i feel, and i do care deeply when i am truly in the wrong and what i actually say is responsible for the hurt. That's why i wrote and still mean my apology.
Nope, if you read my OP in this thread, you'll see that im only greatly reinforced in this knowledge. sorry that wasn't clear enough. I dont ask cuz i know its not appropriate.
For the true stats on the odds:
https://www.mostonline.org/facts_outsideresources.htm
Spontaneous triplets are only 1 in 6,889 pregnancies.
Maybe your mom should have shared this with you "Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt". I am sure that you have removed all doubt for most posters.
Of course she didn't actually read the responses. What a dumb "apology."